Operation red wings

>why arent people invincible and impossible to kill

Life isn't an anime OP.

>>35144494
yes, but getting instantly BTFO by untrained insurgents is not what a special forces unit does.

>>35144547
A few guys vs an entire village of combatants that know they're there is not just 'untrained insurgents'. Zero logistical support is what happened.

People die anon, welcome to real life. Shit isn't an anime.

>>35144560
no it isn't

An actual warrior would have killed the goat herders

navy otters are tools of the feminine faggot american regime. Not shocking they couldnt do their job without having a moral crisis.

>>35144560
>entire village of combatants
load of horseshit.
darack's documents say that they were 3 to 4 small enemy groups

max estimate is 30. (codeword: max)

>>35144484
They didn't crypto their radios. Therefore unable to contact for proper extraction/support.

Of course they'll never admit it. So instead the SEALs use them as heros/martyrs.

>>35144484
Yes Delta would have wrecked those guys. Most of delta are infantry and or rangers they know combat manuvering. Most SEALS due to them being navy, simply don't have that background. You want to see a worse example look at operation just cause. SEALS got raped, and I don't mean the good kind of raped, I mean Monica Bellucci in Irreversible raped.

>>35144644
>>35144612
what about devgru? they're a good step above your average SEAL
what would've happened if they were sent instead?

>>35144608
>load of horseshit.
>darack's documents say that they were 3 to 4 small enemy groups
I'm not sure what you think an entire village being against you is, but I definitely count that.
>people relaying information about your position and numbers
>spotters watching you
>hiding fighters

>30 max!
.... Yeah that's a lot of people to be fighting especially from concealment and hard cover....

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Enjoy a rare Murphy

>>35144484
All I'm saying here is that Russians would've killed that shepherd and his son without hesitation, and that would've saved their asses.

>>35144701
It's not about being good at what you do. DEVGRU is good at SEALing. It's when they have to stop being seals and start being light infantry. Former rangers former infantry can do that.

>>35144644
You got any source? It's kinda of a hassle trudging through pages of worthless search results.

>>35144727

the pentagon said there were 8-12 fighters

get rekt

>>35144795
>the guys who left them there with no logistical support or any backdoor or information
>said there were only 8-12 fighters

Again seals/delta whatever aren't magical. This isn't an anime.

>>35144727
Spotters aren't combatants.

>Hiding fighters

So basically just make up numbers as you see fit to support your case

>They wuz 300 desert ninjas

>>35144785
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1990-02-09/news/9001120248_1_seals-platoon-plane

Here's one quick one. There are plenty of others. The one thing I learned from that debacle is "shooting on the move" will get you killed. Run fast hide behind something is way smarter than walking slowly and shooting. That's how they lost a lot of SEALS thst day.

>>35144823
I can see you have no critical thinking ability.
I didn't make up any numbers but having spotters that can relay information to actual fighters is a combat multiplier.

It was the enemies area. They knew where to move to get the best chance to kill the seals. This allowed them to be extremely fast in their movements while the seals had no clue.

>>35144834
I know bro, it's just like on battlefield!

>>35144778
then why were they sent to the bin laden raid?

>>35144807
No but but when 4 guys have guns with best optics, radios, body armor and 500 times superior training and they fail against 8 to 12 untrained guys with cold war era guns.. that's called being incompetent and unreliable, which is way beyond a simple mistake/bad luck.

rangers and delta would've given them a proper ass whooping.

>>35144884
>First reply supports SEALs
>Second reply shits on them
you're not a very good troll. You can't aggro both sides in same post.

>>35144547
>untrained insurgents

born fighters with home field advantage.

>>35144927
My first reply was not supporting them, it was a simple question, why was ST6 sent to kill bin laden if delta is better (and we know delta is better)

and not every SEAL is devgru, you flaming faggot.

>>35144957
>Believes official story

You're not worth it.

>>35144884
They were sent to kill a sick old man guarded by women and children. That is a precision strike not an infantry assault.

>>35144957
Because, again, SEALs are very specialised in quick, hit-and-run operations and are not light infantry. Taking out Bin Laden was such an operation, Red Wings wasn't and as such they failed.
It's as if you'd wonder why are tanks bad at shooting at aircraft.

>>35144976
Bin loading didn't die, at least not in that raid, that's something i know.

but is there anything more than that?

>>35144603
>An actual warrior would have killed the goat herders

This

Is that an SR25 or M110 mag on his stock? Looks a bit beefy to be a 5.56 stanag.
For what purpose?

>>35145031
yes, that actually does look like one

maybe it's for his DMR bro?

>>35145031
could be a gps

>>35145012
Obama's birth certificate was being heavily contested for a week or two. His own grandma said he was born in Kenya, etc.

So they thawed bin laden body out from area 51 and dumped him in the ocean. After that that's all the mainstream media talked about a month. Bin laden died of poor health in 04.

>>35145058
Seal team 6 didn't do it also. 1 was a CIA implant. That's why they killed the other 3 guys 3 months later in a helicopter crash. CIA guy went on to write books, well books written by government ghost writers.

>>35144988
>why are tanks bad at shooting at aircraft.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxpjdWtGafA

>>35145076
Good response, a perfect argument.

Delta would design a better plan. Simple as.

>>35144795
Proofs or gtfo.
If is was 8-12 fighters. Seals would have come out on top easy.
1 jackass soldier with a full auto m16 and 40mm could take that many easy.

>>35144484

Delta would have got their man.

SEALS just would have published a book deal and made money.

>>35145507
Umm, they fucked up AND published a book still.

>>35144484
They weren't brutalized during training.

You can't fight a war until you awaken the beast.

>>35145656
I think thats where we failed them. We weren't hard enough on them. They were too soft, we sent them in unprepared.

Lone Survivor is a better book than Service.

>>35145656
Other way around. SEALs are all about the physically brutal selection process. Considering they start as Navy personnel, they tend to come out thinking they're the hottest operators around because of the hell weeks of selection. They cowboy up, and that's where the mistakes happen. With Red Wings, they completely sidestepped the extant USMC network in place and failed to coordinate, which was the first part of why that op got so fucked. The second part was more cowboy bullshit, when their operation got compromised and instead of adapting or aborting, they just said fuck it and continued on, and then got completely overwhelmed and obliterated.

FWIW: Delta selection is physically rigorous, but they're more concerned about testing actual soldiering skills and the mental aspects of their selectees rather than spending weeks beating the shit out of them to see who quits.

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SEALs are just mermaid assassins. Plain and simple. Instead of suits with italian accents going by the name Vinny, they just wear fatigues, can swim pretty well, and go be the name Chief. They aren't 10th Mt, Rangers, or Green Berets. Even DEVGRU is just the best of the best mechanics the Don Uncle Sam has in his line of wetwork henchmen, nothing more. Had they be clearing a manmade structure, they would've excelled, and with flying colors if water had been around it. All the ocean is is a quick way for people to appear and disappear from thin air and easily and the SEALs have mastered it but not much else

>>35145952
Because SEALs are assassins and Delta are actual, warfare ready soldiers.
What else is new

>>35145952
I don't know about that. Sone people say Seal training only seems demanding. It's more about finding out how comfortable you are in the water, and hoe bad you want to be a seal. My friend that failed out said he quit because he got tired of being cold. Others said similar it was a lot of got tired of, or didnt want to, not can't or couldn't. I think its attitude. In contrasr, I've been told one of the main cause of failure in delta is maturity.

>>35146077
WRT Delta, yeah. Skillset Maturity and Mindset Maturity.

BUD/S Is physical as all hell though. Anybody who tells you otherwise is full of shit or trying to make excuses for why they washed out. BUDS makes Ranger School look like basic infantry training. They beat the everloving shit out of you for a couple of weeks, and then they actually move onto vocational training.

>>35146010
>>35145985
Delta cold probably pull off the assassinations thing better because their specialization is being dropped off at the border of a hostile country, hike 30 miles to somewhere, operate and leave silently and covertly, all while blending in with the locals using their clothes, fluently speaking their language, etc.

meanwhile if a SEAL get stung by a mosquito he'll call an airstrike

>>35144484
The typical CAG guy:
5-10 years as airborne infantry / ranger / S.F., then try out for CAG.


The typical SEAL guy:
Navy basic training, then try out for SEAL's via BUD/s.

There's no contest.

I'd take a squad of Rangers over SEAL's every time. Their NCO's and tabbed out SPC4's are all better than SEAL's and more than make up for the fact they've got n00b privates on their teams.

>>35146339
Are rangers the best SOF for direct action?

>>35146077
>I've been told one of the main cause of failure in delta is maturity.

Hills phase. Same as SAS. Everything prior to that is general fitness, everything after is injury or deselection. Hills phase gets the most.

>>35146371
yes, they're basically 11Bs on steroids

>>35146385
What goes on hills phase?

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>>35144603
>Warrior

>>35146494
sorry the main problem with the US military is the gay as shit code of fake honor. everyone who died in that valley that day died because special forces soldiers valued the lives of some goat fucker and his kid

That isnt how you fight a war. Therefor they are not warriors. They are social workers with hk416s

>>35144858
Your a idiot

>>35146209
Kek. If that's true, even other SO are better at doing SEALs' one and only job than they are. SEALfags on suicide watch. Although, DELTA is much more suited for a variety of roles and therefore, their training and furthermore, selection, is much more rigorous than a frog's; using Delta for everything would just be overkill so to speak

>>35146510
>doesnt just tie them to a damn tree and leave
My wife saw the movie with me, someone with no military background whatsoever, no miltary dad or grandpa or even camo short shorts and she said not tying them to a tree was the dumbest fucking thing imaginable

>>35146371
Depends on the target.

Man for man, CAG will have more experienced dudes, but Rangers make up for it with numbers. They're a very versatile and effective organization. Definitely more effective for DA than S.F. and navy dudes.

The biggest problem the SEAL's have is being used for shit that's better suited for infantrymen. Those dudes are the go-to guys for blue water ops, but they really shouldn't be doing shit like direct action and reconnaissance missions on land that are better suited for dedicated infantry and LRS dudes. The U.S. is always misusing their military units, though, and asking units to do shit they aren't trained or prepared to do, regardless if they're SOF or not.

>>35146643
It's not about the US Military misusing its assets, at least not in the sense that somebody up top is actively choosing the wrong people for the job. What happens is everybody wants a piece of the pie. JSOC was supposed to solve the territory problem, but honestly it just created an official central channel for the different branches and units to jockey for the cool ops. Eagle Claw is the biggest example, where a fairly daring operation got fucked because all the different branches wanted a piece of the pie. Army personnel being flown by Air Force pilots and planes with Navy Helos being flown by Navy Pilots and so on and so forth.

As for the SEALs, their big problem is that they're supposed to do frogman shit, like another Anon mentioned. Keep them coastal and they will do all kinds of ninja shit with a quickness. Problem is GWOT is all in landlocked shitholes, either mountainous as fuck or plains for days. So now you've got a bunch of badass frogmen who don't have any realistic expectation of a mission in their wheelhouse. So they jockey for missions outside their expertise, and basically end up playing CAG instead of doing SEAL shit. It mostly works, but sometimes you get stuff like Red Wings where rolling the dice comes up snake eyes and shit gets fucked.

>>35146643
Why don't SEALs learn basic infantryman skills? How does infantry experience help? What do infantry learn that SEALs dont? Sorry if stupid questions

>>35144644
>irreversible raped
Damn it boner.

If only we had a better explicit view of her butthole getting creampied. Oh well, such are fantasies.

Anyways seals probably shouldn't have gone in the first place.

>>35146178
But remeber the people complaining about how physical these tasks are have only the navy to compare. It's like people who say the air force superman school is hard. They are right it's hard for the average airforce airman.

>>35146407
It's the first big solo navigational effort. There is some overwatch, so if you do get totally lost someone will pick you up, but it's conducted over terrain you're not familiar with. You're carrying a huge amount of weight, and it comes immediately after another week long field exercise.

You then have to get yourself, after looking at a map for thirty seconds, to a specific RV. It's about 60 miles away. There's a time allowance, and off you go.

That's the output test. The three weeks prior to that, and the exercise that gets you to the start point, is properly hellish.

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>>35146818
> what is labor
> what is taxes pay for govt paychecks
> what is govt has zero economic input
> what is govt has to be as cheap as possible as to not rouse the sheeple taxpayers from their ponzi scheme
You have to be 18 and up to into internet kiddo

>>35146643
SF CIF teams could give the rangers a run for their money.

Hell a good chunk of them were rangers first.

>>35146891
>Even mentioning Monica Bellucci
Fuck, now I have the boner curse

>>35146810
The problem with JSOC and SOCOM is everyone wants a peice of the pie because of that bottomless pit of money that gets side channeled into its budget from the intelligence side of the house.

>>35146915
Yeah, except that's not the sole report. It's universally accepted that BUDS is fucking brutal. Anybody in the community will confirm that. Other Special Missions guys may make fun of SEALs for being cowboys and glory hounds, but not a one of them will ever say that BUDS isn't physical as fuck. The common opinion is that the physical portion of BUDS is overkill.

>>35146924
I'm not your kiddo pal

>>35146948
>tfw she somehow got cucked by le fake frenchie inna matrix
>not blatantly destroying the entire simulation for making a woman that hot get cuckqueened.

It was hot when she confronted him and said she knew he had lipstick on his dick from the rando blondie he facefucked inna bathroom.

>>35144830
> The third, led by Lt. j.g. John Connors, continued moving toward the planes and terminal at the far end.
>Lt. j.g. John Connors

>>35146818
>

>>35144608
>max estimate is 30
Nigger that's a village of combatants in the Middle East. This isn't Custer's Last Stand, it's 30 versus 4

>>35146818
They learn infantry tactics in their qualification course before arriving at a team, and they train on it at their teams, but it all comes down to experience and repetition. Fire and maneuver is a lot like chess in that it's easy to learn, but hard as fuck to master as an individual, let alone a team, because the conditions are always changing. The distance you keep in the day time changes at night, and the distance you keep in a forest changes in a desert, or a city, and it changes again depending on your ability to control your team as a leader, and how fast you need to be able to react and exploit an advantage. Infantry tactics take a LOT of practice at the individual, AND leader levels to really get good at, and it's not something SEAL's get a lot of time for before getting to a team, or even at their teams.

>>35147144
SEALs still have the edge with their superior rifles and optics, intercomms, body armor, throwables (OP's pic guy on the left has a smoke grenade, probably keeping more and frags somewhere) and most of all superior training

meanwhile jihadis are using 70's rusty AKs that somehow still work and firing from their hips.

>>35146925
>Hell a good chunk of them were rangers first.

S.F. has some good dudes, no doubt, but they also have a lot of fatbacks that came from support MOS's that aren't that hot. The best S.F. dudes are ex-Rangers.

>>35144484
Because the SEAL's don't know shit about actual infantry tactics. If you had Delta or even fucking Rangers it would have been different.

>>35147190
30 people with firearms are able to lay down a lot more fire than 4 dudes.

>>35147217
CAG and Bat boys, both, have been overwhelmed, but never wiped out the way the navy dudes have.

Pretty much every nigger with an AK tried to get a piece of the boys in Mogadishu, but outside of a couple fatalities at the start, the downed aircraft casualties, and unprotected gunners on the ground convoy, CAG and the bat boys simply hunkered down, pulled security, and shot the fuck out of the nigs until back up could arrive by ground convoy.

Same shit in A-stan when the fucking navy left one of their dudes behind after falling out of a 47 during infil. The team tried to get to him on foot, but said fuck it and left, meanwhile Ranger QRF lands, gets shot the fuck up, and again just hunkers down and fights it out until another team of Rangers can walk up the side of the fucking mountain to reinforce them.

Hell, even army S.F. managed to hold off like a company sized element of Iraqi army dudes during gulf war I.

Navy dudes just aren't as proficient on the ground as the army, or even marines, regardless of how much cool-guy shit they get issued.

>>35147204
Who is more likely to have "better" combat skills between seals ,rangers and SF?

>>35147314
Was any of them carrying an lmg?

>>35147314
yes but the use of movement, cover, retreat and ambush tactics equalizes that.

let's all enjoy some mortar fire

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bmcdy-_8p6Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfkOeHQXAaM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdZc5RfKqyA

comfiest vid yet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o65nB1J4sPI

bonus points if you notice the guy burn his hands on the top of the mortar

>>35147322
Rangers.

>>35147315
So seals are better use for hit and run missions preferably where they can be inserted by water?

>>35147314
how much ammo does the average goatfucker carry?

>>35147368
yes. and clearing submarines/boats/ships/whatever goes in water

I am a voyeur, I like to masturbate silently while watching other people in the shadows. Am I good material for Marine Force Recon?

>>35147368
>preferably where they can be inserted by water?

Exactly.

DA missions on oil rigs, ships, naval facilites, and anything and everything that has to do with blue water ops is their area of expertise, and they should be used accordingly.

>>35147410
Yes just let the marine recruiter know about your voyeur experience otherwise you won't get a chance at recon

>>35146339
this, I always thought that Special Forces was a end of a line career for a soldier. Like doing a PhD. That's the reason why I thought most special forces were in their 30s and retired even older.

Then I watched people entering SEAL training from the start, as a civilian without previous military training and young as fuck (there was this video of this kid being 17 and pass Hell Week).

>>35147381
>clearing submarines
Is there a video on that?

>>35145031
It's just a 20 round AR mag.

>>35147335
Not sure.

>>35147340
Not really, lmao. They aren't fucking unstoppable killing machines and they made a lot of mistakes during the whole thing.

>>35147369
Enough to btfo 4 SEAL operators.

>>35147167
so (without being rude), SEALs are shilled as fuck? Isn't it better to have one special forces guys in your whole military and give them specialized training? isn't it more easy to manage, deploy and train than having special forces for every armed forces in your whole country?

>>35147490
>Not really, lmao. They aren't fucking unstoppable killing machines and they made a lot of mistakes during the whole thing.
if you're too unreliable to do basic shit like moving back, taking cover, shoot and repeat then you shouldn't be on the battlefield

>>35147490
What kind of mistakes?

>>35147340
this is not Call of Duty, anon. The best trainer fighter can die from a single bullet fired from a retarded baby.

If you are unlucky enough to get on the way, you will die. IT's even worse if you have less numbers.

>>35146209
You're thinking about special forces. Delta are the OG direct action unit. SEALs started out as underwater demo and recon and then mission creep happened and it happened hard.

>>35147498
T. Civilian

>>35147496
SEAL's fulfill a role for the navy, dude, they just get misused like everybody else.

>>35147530
damn son you sure btfo the shit out of me eternally how will i even begin to recover

>>35147521
>The best trainer fighter can die from a single bullet fired from a retarded baby so what's the point of training and executing manoeuvres lmao
this is literally you right now

>>35146510
They never found goat herders. That was a fabrication by Luttrell to justify them getting caught, and it's unlikely we'll ever know the full story with how much he's changed it over the years. Their first contact with the locals was when they opened up on them.

>>35147559
What is up your ass? The fact that the SEAL's aren't as great as they are mad out to be? Or that you can't accept 4 people being overwhelmed by a larger force with home field advantage?

>>35147343
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQon-oLeijI

>>35147614
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO18CJXU8co

muh 10 mile mortar with GPS guided munitions

>>35147612
>What is up your ass?
incompetence

Does SF/green berets get to do cool stuff or is the meme about them mainly just training/instructing other foreign military groups accurate?

>>35147821
depends wartime or not

>>35147845
What are they doing right now?

>>35147864
Both. They're doing their own missions and in charge of training everyone from ANA to "moderate" Islamic rebels.

>>35147913
>to "moderate" Islamic rebels.
that's not green berets that's CIA niggers

>>35144484
These dudes weren't even "proper" SEAL's and had even LESS infantry / fire and maneuver training than the typical SEAL.

>Navy Lieutenant Murphy of SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 1, Petty Officer Second Class Dietz from SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2 (SDVT-2), Petty Officer Second Class Axelson from SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 1 (SDVT-1); and Navy Hospital Corpsman Second Class Luttrell, of SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 1 (SDVT-1)

No wonder they got their shit pushed in.

>>35147821
Depends on your idea of "cool stuff", but they're usually tasked with working with the locals, which is really a double edged sword. Locals can either be fanatically loyal, which means they can be pretty bad assed if you're willing to train them to be, or they can be like the typical Muslim "fighter", which are usually lazy pieces of shit loyal only to themselves and their tribes.

Of course, you can always get tasked with running basic leadership and soldier skills courses to 3rd world shitheads, which sucks, though can be comical.

>>35144484
Honest question:

Why didn't they just take the 2 people who spotted them up the mountain with them and then let them go at a later time?

Shouldn't that have gotten them enough time?

>>35144957
>why was ST6 sent to kill bin laden if delta is better (and we know delta is better)
That's...debatable.
The 2 groups are pretty indistinguishable, with both being direct-action groups trained for raids and hostage rescues.

Best unit for the job would have probably been rangers from the 75th.

>>35148517
Why are rangers so underrated?

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>>35144484
I hear Rangers get more missions than Navy Seals.

>>35144751
>Russians

That you for reminding me that Russians are shit on humanities shoes and they are proud of it.

>>35144484
>ive seen commando 12 times
>i know what a firefight is REALY like
>if you let a bullet penetrate you, you are >a queer fag

>>35147190
>I think life is a video game
>bullets come out of SEAL-brand M4 20% faster and deadlier than AK
>the optics add 500m to bullet travel
>ceramic plates add +400 HP
>frag grenades can clear 300 yard effective AoE

You and your 3 buddies can dress up in full battle rattle and KAC AR's and Trijicon and night vision. Meanwhile, I'll organize 30 people with rags for armor and 30 SKS'. Also, you'll be on our terrain that we know well, and we also know when you'll be coming and general direction you'll be coming from.

>>35148992
I ain't got time to bleed

>>35145533
>delta fucked up
>for the rest of the military ignoring their advice over political bullshit

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>>35145507
they did make a book see >>35145533

>>35147315
>Same shit in A-stan when the fucking navy left one of their dudes behind after falling out of a 47 during infil. The team tried to get to him on foot, but said fuck it and left, meanwhile Ranger QRF lands, gets shot the fuck up, and again just hunkers down and fights it out until another team of Rangers can walk up the side of the fucking mountain to reinforce them.
>trying to compare a NSW recon team with 6 dudes vs 2 squads of Rangers
ok man.

>>35147946
Doesn't SF work with cia?

>>35144884
Good training and equipment can only go so far against superior firepower. It was overmatched against them. So even assuming they were doing their best, against 12 enemy, it wouldn't look good.

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>>35147381
I'd imagine the Coast Guard probably gets more training time on VBSS and the likes than SEALs these days. Vietnam was the best example of the SEALs use/abilities, go in fuck shit up and don't stick around long enough to get caught.

>>35148028
They were delivery drivers?

Kek

>>35149532
What's the difference?

>>35149562
The difference is that the area of expertise of the SDVT dudes is the operation and maintenance of their vehicles, not planning and conducting dismounted reconnaissance / surveillance missions, let alone dismounted fire and maneuver.

That whole incident was a giant goatfuck, and never should have happened.

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Right, I'm going to try and explain this as simply as possible.
The SEALs sent in on Redwings were not equipped to really deal with 20+ armed militants.
They were equipped to search for and identify a HVT and then provide support when the actual door kickers came.
They were a RECON team, and were given equipment for that task. Suppressed DMRs, M4's and not as much ammo or armor.
Yes, Rangers, Green Berets or CAG would've done better if they were in the same situation, but the fact remains that the mission wasn't supposed to involve actual fighting.
Rangers/SF/CAG squads are trained, and more importantly, designed around direct action work. (aka head on fighting)
They have grenadiers, machine gunners, they carry more ammo and often work with USAF CCT's for air support.
I know it's a fucking chinese cartoon, but this pic pretty well demonstrates the difference.
And the mission went tits up, and they were idiots for not restraining them, but given their situation, it's hard to decide what to do.
>Kill them
Well great, now you've created 100's more terrorists and made the USM look like a bunch of cunts
>Tie them up
Then their families would look for them, leading to even more militiamen
>Evac
That's completely letting the target go, and wasting tens of thousands of dollars
TL;DR - Mission was a definite clusterfuck, but the SEALs weren't equipped to deal with that kind of work.

>>35150066
>They have grenadiers, machine gunners, they carry more ammo and often work with USAF CCT's for air support.
nigga the navy works with USAF CCTs as well, who do you think john chapman was?

>Well great, now you've created 100's more terrorists and made the USM look like a bunch of cunts
nothing new, NSW is probably the greatest propaganda tool islamists have ever known thanks to hatchet bullshit and scalping and canoeing and etc.

>>35149325
On occasion

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>>35150182
Chapman was working with DEVGRU (Seal Team 6, whatever you want to call them), which is almost exactly like CAG (Delta Force). Highly trained assaulters used in DA. Again, not at all like the recon team sent in on Redwings.
I'm not saying that CCT's don't work with SEALs. I'm saying CCT's don't generally work with RECON teams. Since calling in BRRRRRT's tends to throw stealth out the window.
To your second point, that still doesn't mean they should've killed them. Just because some dudes in DEVGRU are psychopaths, doesn't mean all of our SOF guys should.
Green Beret's were infinitely more successful than SEALs at dealing with AQ, primarily through supporting ANA.

>>35150418
>Chapman was working with DEVGRU (Seal Team 6, whatever you want to call them), which is almost exactly like CAG (Delta Force). Highly trained assaulters used in DA. Again, not at all like the recon team sent in on Redwings.
nigga it was a NSW recce team. the guy leading the team has come out about it and he was a longtime recce guy in DG.

>>35150418
>I'm saying CCT's don't generally work with RECON teams. Since calling in BRRRRRT's tends to throw stealth out the window.
This is a HUGE red flag that you have no idea what you're talking about. On a recce team you need all the firepower you can get. The CCT doesn't have to constantly call in air everywhere he goes, but when you need to break contact a couple JDAMs goes a lot farther than any guns your recce team can carry.

This was true even in the Nam days, although obviously the format of who got to call in air and what munitions were used was different back then

>>35147528
Why don't they just expand Delta instead of making SEALs do shit?

>>35150574
not him but after that point any hope of getting an HVT is totally fucked since JDAMs are cratering shit
granted, if you're taking fire from 40+ hajis in a less than optimal position, survival is the main objective but still.

>>35150609
Pretty much all of U.S. SOF expanded as a result of the optempo of the GWOT.

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>>35150517
Fair point, it was a recon team.
But my argument would still be that a DEVGRU recon team is still better prepared and equipped for a fight than the Redwings team.
Hence why they had a CCT.

>>35150628
they were never supposed to assassinate the guy, just find out if he was there or not

>>35144957
>why was ST6 sent to kill bin laden
They weren't, they were conclusively proven to be in South America at the time. In fact, no member of NSW was part of the Bin Laden raid. It was comprised of Delta, 160th SOAR, and CIA SAD. Again, this has been officially confirmed.

>>35150574
Yes, but when your main goal is to quietly observe a target, why would you bring a CCT?
When the shit hits the fan, you start calling in JDAMs and air support, you can kiss the target good bye.
>>35150718
They were identifying him and then helping another team of SEALs get him. He gets away, the mission is over.

>>35150793
well why the fuck not say it was delta then? were they waiting for MW3 to break the news about its fucking existence or some shit?

>>35150793
Source?

>>35150796
>why would you bring a CCT
cause if you get bumped you need him to drop the ordnance so you can run away and not be killed

>When the shit hits the fan, you start calling in JDAMs and air support, you can kiss the target good bye.
when the shit hits the fan, the gunfire and the fact that the enemy have literally seen you means you can kiss the target goodbye.

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>>35150816
I think this dude is some sort of Rangerphile who habitually hates SEALs.
Delta has been known to exist for a fucking while. Widespread public knowledge happened back during Blackhwak Down, and even before that there was that Norris movie.
I do think that CAG was involved in taking out bin laden, but it was most likely a joint task force. BAG, DEVGRU and SAD.
The military would just say DEVGRU because it's easier to explain, probably.

>>35150609
They did. Delta (1st SFOD-D) has expanded from literally one operational detachment (36 people) to 17 plus a non-selected support battalion.

Not to mention that all SF ODA's extensively train direct action now. I'd take a random ODA out of 3rd group before I took a SEAL team for a direct action mission. Especially on land, but honestly even in water.

>>35150828
I agree. It was pretty much military hubris that got them killed.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that for the mission they were going on, bringing a CCT wasn't considered necessary.
Clearly with hindsight, that was a stupid decision.

>>35150875
>The military would just say DEVGRU because it's easier to explain, probably.
>it's easier to explain that one of our SMUs did it rather than explain that the other SMU did it
ok

>>35150915
>bringing a CCT wasn't considered necessary.
more likely they didn't have a schoolhouse qualified CCT cause they were scarce early in the war

>>35150816
Because SEALs and specifically ST6 have been the US's golden-boy SOF for 30 fucking years, and they needed some seriously good publicity after routinely and consistently fucking up all over the Middle East since 2003 when literally no other SOF unit had any problems.

So, the tl;dr is to preserve the public image of the Navy as a whole and the SEALs specifically.

>>35150946
Yes, it is easier to say that one SOF was used than saying that there were two there and probably some guys from the CIA.
And you haven't provided any proof that they lied about Delta doing it.

>>35150875
How does one get into SOAR and how challenging is it?

>>35150961
Anecdotal evidence at best.

>>35144547

>Assuming that these village people are untrained.

Some of these goat fuckers have been fighting since the Soviet invasion.

Fuck, you're stupid. Also, underage & a noguns.

This isn't an anime.

>>35151024
why don't you prove your own assertions

>>35144484
>why can't I bait for shit?
>what made me so incompetent at shitposting?
>would I bait better on /b/?
just a quick translation, I am in no way fluent in autist.

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>>35151110
this guy gets it.

>>35151072
>Some of these goat fuckers have been fighting since the Soviet invasion.

Those fuckers have zero clue about how to fight, which is why they get their shit pushed in every single time they try to go toe to toe with any coalition.

They're good at spraying rounds from outside effective small arms range and detonating IED's on avenue's of approach, which takes zero skill at all.

>>35151090
>The fact that CAG and DEVGRU have done joint missions for decades
>The fact that more often in official documents, they are refered to as JSOC personnel, not as DEVGRU
Still more evidence than your conspiracy.

>>35151307
>they are refered to as JSOC personnel, not as DEVGRU
you realized JSOC includes CAG and DG right?

>The fact that CAG and DEVGRU have done joint missions for decades
wew lad, maybe it was rangers then

>>35148969
Civilized thing to do is apologize to them, feel sad about the bad luck, distract them and then simultaneous double tap with silenced weapons. Not let yourself and you team die, and your mission fail because of feels.

Life isn't an anime OP.

>>35151362
That's what I'm saying, it was a joint task force. CAG and DEVGRU working together. Hence JSOC.
And on your last point, you're being retarded on purpose. CAG and DEVGRU are both units with virtually the same qualifications. Rangers in the other hand, are advanced air cavalry. Not a SMU.

>>35149325
Yeah, but SF guys get weird vibes doing it sometimes. Cooperation between the two goes back to Vietnam though.

>>35151461
>silenced weapons
You do know suppressed weapons are still relatively loud right?

>>35147434
Seals train for 2 years so I don't mind if they allow noobs on the team.

>>35144484
"why can't SEALs fight for shit?" he asks sitting infront of his computer eating Cheetos and drinking mountain dew.

>>35151594
>Projecting this much

>>35151509
https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=543_1345283695

skip to 0:36

>>35151570
lolno. They can be stuck on an operational team within hours of graduating BUD/S unless they're slated for a specialty job (such as corpsman).

>>35151680
You do realize that audio recording of gunshots is never even really close to accurate, right?

I mean, the absolute best integrated suppressors on the planet barely get pistols and SMG's below "this will immediately cause permanent and irreversible hearing damage" volume, AKA 135dBA.

>>35151684
not anymore, iirc the pipeline now includes SQT and airborne shits and MFF before you even hit your Team

>>35151684
So you want it to be more exclusive and go the Delta route?

>>35151708
they also incorporated language school into mandatory training.

>>35151714
...yes? I mean even regular SF have at minimum a full year of language school, and frequently up to 3 years at the JFKSWCS before even being assigned a unit.

>>35151708
Only even-numbered teams and devgru get any airborne training at all now. Teams 1, 3, and 5 literally have fewer skills and fewer hours training those skills than a PFC Ranger.

And SQT is done OJT now. So after you're on the team. They literally have "unrate" billets on the teams.

>>35151694
Why are you babbling about dBA and recordings? If those police had been suspicious there would have been a firefight.

>>35151745
>skip to 0:36
>0:36 is one dude executing a row of bound, gagged, and prone people with a suppressed, manually cycled, .22lr pistol
>this heavily implies the only and sole purpose of linking the video is "ooh look how quiet it is" especially in the absence of any actual text describing intent
What the fuck are you babbling about firefights for?

>>35151760
see
>>35144751

It's funny how many of you seem to forget that leg Brit SAS ran into very similar issues in GW1 and got chased around the desert.

Team guys also aren't fresh out of BUD/S ... similar to SF, they go through years of additional training and selection.

To operate as a cohesive unit for raids and other very SEAL oriented tasks takes a LOT of fucking training. It takes a shitload of working together and beating it into your memory.

Furthermore, these guys (and other SOF) aren't a bunch of fuckups. These are exclusively motivated individuals that aspire to be better at everything. Every team guy I personally know is reliable, efficient, intelligent, and motivated.

The fact remains that this was a tiny recon element from a team that is specialized in small unit tactics.

Rangers, SF, etc. are specialized in working with larger units and with considerably better organizational support. Not an excuse, it's just their job and specialty. An ODA and Ranger squad are bigger than the 4 / 8 man teams.

When you consider the difference an 8 man team has over a 4 man team, not just in firepower, but specialization, comms, equipment / loadout, etc. It's substantial.

Were they in the wrong mission? Maybe ... but who's to say that the "right assets" weren't available or OM elsewhere?

Gen. McChrystal was head of JSOC during Red Wings and was a Ranger / SF. He obviously felt that the task was manageable by SEALs.

You guys act like there's infinite SOF forces available and that it's some kind of fucking lottery system on who gets what. These people are the most experienced, well-trained, and motivated fighting forces and commanders in the United States. They don't tolerate fuck-ups, and will wash those people out really fast.

Everyone wants to play Monday Morning Commander and swing their dick around in their mom's basement about SOF.

Every SOF team will have shit days. It comes with the territory.

Why do Seals even exist in the first place?

>>35145486
>Proofs or gtfo.

8-10 is the number given by Ed Darack in his book "Victory Point: Operations Red Wings and Whalers - the Marine Corps' Battle for Freedom in Afghanistan" and it is legitimately sourced.

http://www.darack.com/sawtalosar/misinformation.php

>1 jackass soldier with a full auto m16 and 40mm could take that many easy.
>surrounded by all sides from higher ground and taking suppressing fire from a RPK

muh sheshul farces

>>35144484
>Operation red wings
That's what my friends joked when I went down on my high school girlfriend for the first time. She was on her period and I didn't know it was supposed to be icky. I told my friends about it and they laughed their asses off. Operation War Paint, also.

>>35144484
Anyone have the video from after the operation where its a bunch of goat herders posing with their gear? Dudes had an m4 with a 203 and a bunch of other kit.

>>35148820
because they neither have a gigantic Media presence nor are uncommon enough to be mystified like DEVGRU, DELTA and so on.

>>35147687
don't worry anon, some day you will find someone competent enough to fill your ass.

>>35148028
woah, if that's true then this thread is over. They weren't qualified for that type of mission.

>>35150066
that pic is cute

>>35151933
each military branch in USA are too proud to lend and borrow their troops between them.

>>35154100
that's kind of dumb.

>>35144484
Maybe because civilians can apply as SEALs lol.

>>35151892
>Gen. McChrystal was head of JSOC during Red Wings and was a Ranger / SF. He obviously felt that the task was manageable by SEALs.
>thinking that JSOC is micromanaging this kind of shit
McChrystal had a LOT on his plate, these kinds of operational matters are for unit commanders to handle

>>35154203
Seriously? I thought you had to have a few years of experience before you even try to become a SEAL.

>>35154203
>>35154251
no
similarly the Army has contracts where you can try out for the 75th or for SF as a civvy.

>>35154251
You can go and try right now.

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>>35149495

Stoner 69 is my all time fav

They only make a couple hundred right?

>>35151252
>Those fuckers have zero clue about how to fight, which is why they get their shit pushed in every single time they try to go toe to toe with any coalition.

Obviously this statement isn't true.

>>35154485
>every single time they try to go toe to toe
this part is pretty accurate

the taliban are mostly good at spraying PK fire at you while you walk around in broad daylight, or at setting IEDs. the days when they tried to close with US troops are long gone, nowadays if you get within 200m of them you're lucky

>>35147946
Who do you think the CIA brought in to do the training? The base is in Jordan. That's why the 2 SF guys got shot by the Jordanian guard, because he was pissed the US was training head choppers.

>>35155470
>because he was pissed the US was training head choppers
except he also was a head chopper, just pissed in general

was /k/ always this shit?

>>35155786
No.

It has been brigaded by /pol/-retards hard these last 1.5 years.

>>35155786
Yes

>>35144608
>only 30!!!!

I bet you can beat that with your COD k/d ratio, amirite?

>>35148494
read
>>35147587

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Does Force Recon do shit these days?

>>35144547

Dude, the guys they were facing were straight fucking Muj who had been fighting since the 80s. They were commanded by guys who used to shit on Spetsnaz.

>>35156128
Right....any proof of that?

>>35156137
>Dude, the guys they were facing were straight fucking Muj who had been fighting since the 80s. They were commanded by guys who used to shit on Spetsnaz.
these are the same guys who got shit on by every branch during the start of the war cause they got cocky and underestimated their opposition. turns out that "run into the mountains" doesn't work as good when the enemy can drop JDAMs on you day and night, bundled up in cutting edge cold weather gear, and you can't even find their LP/OPs while you run around in the snowy mountains with a wool blanket and fist-size bag of rice for rations

Wasn't too impressed by the lone survivor film. I know it's a lot of theatrics and such but I'd have to say that a LRS team would've been just fine. It's what their specified mission was anyway.

>>35156129
Force Recon doesn't really exist anymore.

It's a shell of its former self and most of it got integrated into MARSOC.

The new badasses in the Marine Corps are now the Marine Raiders.

>>35156353
Wait isn't MARSOC marine raiders?

>>35148820
Have you never read "Blackhawk Down"? The whole book basically consisted of SEALs shitting on Rangers.

>>35156401
Yeah, Marine Raiders are the majority of MARSOC, but MARSOC has some other units as well.

>>35154485
That statement is 100% true.

They suck.

I think red wings is the only time they've ever managed to completely overwhelm a dismounted patrol, and that patrol was only 4 dudes, and one escaped.

If they actually knew what the fuck they were doing, they would have been stacking up coalition bodies like wood, and driving around in a shit ton of coalition vehicles. The terrain over there is a defenders wet dream, but the only way they know how to use it is for harassing and can't put together anything even remotely decisive.

You cannot expect those 4 seals to fight all 15 of those fighters can You? I mean 30 untrained insurgents vs 4 guys get real. Can you even imagine the amount of lead coming at you if 100 terrorist were all firing AKs right at You? I would have ran from those 200 insurgents too, anyone would have.

>>35153995
>They weren't qualified for that type of mission.
Senior military doesn't give a shit, as they have absolutely ZERO respect for dismounted small unit tactics. That's why they made tankers, F.O.'s, and engineers do dismounted patrols in Iraq, despite the fact they didn't know WHAT the fuck they were doing. They'll send those fuckers through a rotation at one of the training centers doing dismount shit and then say "you're good, now go do it in Iraq / A-stan".

It's criminal.

>>35156180
It's not mentioned anywhere except his book (and subsequent movie, and is very obviously a rip off of Andy McNabs story) and some basic logic. Why would people from a village apparently not sympathetic to the Taliban report to them where Americans were but then harbor one of the same Americans they'd just snitched on?

I don't think you understand how tribal culture works. You do what your elders say or you're beaten and ostricized. If your elders say they don't like the local Muj then you don't go talking to the local Muj.

>>35156705
> Can you even imagine the amount of lead coming at you if 100 terrorist were all firing AKs right at You?
nothing is stopping you from retreating the hell back and ambushing them as they try to chase you

>>35147864
The term they is misleading there are several groups with several teams in every group that are working multiple theaters of operation across the globe. Most of these operations you never hear of they are in shitty nowhere places. Central Africa, the Stand, the Balkans. When they go great, nobody says a word, when they go bad, they have cover story. It's nowhere near as glamorous as people think.

>>35144744
>Das it mane

>>35156705
With 200 guys vs 4 seals? Impossible. The value it took just to have the courage to get out of cover and run like a coward when the 400 guys were rushing them, incredible! Perhaps we will never know where the 10,000 fighters went after the battle.

>>35148880
well duh, rangers still act as normal infantry when needed, they aren't as specialized and therefore see more use

>>35144494
this

>>35158622
Which are the most "glamorous" SOFs if there is such thing?

>>35144494
Kek What's with all this shitting on anime in thread

>>35150793
Why was ST6 in South America then?

>>35151045
join army aviation, hard

>>35144608
Holy fuck you're retarded

>>35145985
>10th Mt
I see you have no grasp that they are not that special little guy.

>>35159221
I think you're exaggerating, we will eventually find the one googleplex of insurgents.

>>35149272
That was an Air Force CCT that went back for the fallen SEAL. The SEALs leaving them is probably why TSgt Chapman didn't get a MoH.

well they're navy, so of course they were constantly having gay anal sex and frottaging the whole pre-deployment instead of taking in the intel for the op.

>>35144608
4 people basically getting ambushed by 30.

>>35144608
Use your stupid fucking brain
That's 3,000 vs 400 if we're talking percentage wise.

>>35144644
>Monica Bellucci in Irreversible raped.
Just watched this. Great fap material. Thanks, anon. Also, SEALS >>>Delta

>>35162701
>Seal > delta
Hahahaha NO

>>35162486
>>35162552
refer to >>35156757

>>35150828
That's not what CCT does, thats what TACP does.

>>35162001
Bullshit, you show up and are randomly assigned just like any other unit. It's just a little easier to transfer out of

>>35147369
Several magazines at least. Some of those guys are wearing makeshift vests and carry 6-8 at a time, so suppressing fire is possible.

>>35156757
..... So get out of cover and run through rifle and rpg fire?

Life isnt an anime anon. You will die.

>>35162983
never served

>>35161776
Cause life isn't an anime anon :^)

>>35161776
anime breeds autism

>>35148028
Dude you have no idea what a SDV I'd do you?

They're proper blue water SEALS.

>>35144484
Leadership failure, especially failure to provide LOITERING FIXED WING CAS, doomed the op.

The average grunt in Nam had far better air support. Helicopters are delicate junk and slow, easy targets. They are shit at altitude. If they didn't look cool they'd get very little love.

Transplant Red Wings to Nam and they could have called loitering Skyraiders to nape , bomb, rocket and strafe the ragheads. They could have had OV-10 Broncos orbiting the area to provide LINE OF SIGHT comms instead of garbage satellite comms. Broncos carried FFARs and 4x M60s to hose the deserving. They could have had orbiting gunships suppressing the enemy instead of none because we hardly have any AC-130s left.

The US has two problems. Special Forces are so elitist they think they don't need air support so it's not available when they do need it. The Air Force is fascinated with fast jets, the Army only cares about helicopters, and both of those are SHIT for loitering air support missions.

We should have bought a fuckton of Tucanos when we entered A-stan and we'd have had thousands of sorties available.

For fun, read up on how fixed wing FAC/CAS assets were murdered after the Iraq invasion. For more fun, consider that inferior helicopters which are much easier to shoot down are preferred by the Army. Army used to fly Mohawks but those are long gone.

>>35144484
Why don't we send you Anon?

jesus christ, this thread is literal cancer. it was the SEALs own fault the operation was a failure, end of story.

so many people wanna suck their dicks in /k/. there are only a few people here who actually know what they're talking about.

>>35156757
Which is exactly what they did? Only the way out was down the cliff?

Spectators tend to jerk off to "muh operators" while ignoring war is a battle between systems of systems.

When real operator leadership makes that mistake, operators gonna die.

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>>35149495

>camouflaged berets were actually a thing in the US Military

>>35144560
Lol entire village. Watch out for the bullshit there anon

>>35146178
Weird. Id view those two as totally different animals. Ive known SEALs to bitch and complain more than your avg private and end up recycled in the school house and I know one who failee it (peered) and was sent packing. I think your statement is lacking an understanding of what being in either is actually like. This isnt to say one is harder than the other, just to emphasize that the two are unique and different

>>35151476
Advaned Air Cavalry? That's dumb. They're Rangers, a unit primarily tasked with Direct Action Special Operations Missions

>>35146178
>BUDS makes Ranger School look like basic infantry training.
You have no idea what you're talking about.

>>35144612
This. Basic tier shit contributed to their deaths. They either forgot to put the fill in themselves or check they were in the radios before they signed them out, before they stepped off. They had on-call Arty with pre-registered targets.

>>35148969
>shit
you mean effective

see: Chechnya and Syria

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>>35144547
Of course anon you can do so much better

Navy Seals are overrated to be honest

>>35166386
>Special Forces are so elitist they think they don't need air support so it's not available when they do need it.

extreme doubt

>>35171018
Special forces of5fer find themselves in places where the us cannot send air support because the us is not supposed to be operating there. That is what pissed me off about these Benghazi people. You want to play sneaky pete, you want to play covert ops if you don't understand you can be cut off. You don't belong.

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>>35144484
Kikes tipped the enemies off to make Trump look bad on his first operation.

>>35151790
>completely and utterly BTFO
>resorts to calling for cold blooded murder and warcrimes

>>35161855
Chasing Narcos probably.

>>35166897
>beret in anything other than garrison
>US
m8 I have bad news for you...that's a brit.

>>35162486
Not only 4 guys getting ambushed, it was 4 selfless operators who invaded to bring peace to the 30 ungreatful bastards. When they let the goat herder go out of love and kindness the 60 insurgents got wind. At first they fought back but once our selfless liberators got wind of the 200-400 terrorist they ran and ran. One by one they were gunned down by the 10,000 fighters. Eventually the 6 million jihadist cornered them and only 1 survived.

It's almost like if there are no witnesses you can tell whatever story you want...

>>35151045
>How does one get into SOAR and how challenging is it?
>Pilot
Be really good at flying helicopters and don't be a cowboy. Do a ton of night flying and super precise landings under adverse conditions
>crew
get selected to go to Ranger School lite

>>35171262
>protecting a literal US embassy with US flag
>sneaky pete
>not supposed to be operating there
uhhhhhhhhhh nigga

>>35166386
>Army only cares about helicopters, and both of those are SHIT for loitering air support missions.

Only half of that statement is correct. The Air Force basically won't let them have fixed wing attack aircraft. There's some rule stating the Army can only use fixed wing planes for observation and transport.

If it weren't for that, and the army's lack of support for such aircraft because of said rule, they'd likely be using the A-10 and the whole CAS thing with the airforce and the F-35 wouldnt be a problem.

Weren't they supposed to have apaches for air support?

>>35171564
this op was far before trump became pres you blithering /pol/nigger

>>35162486
Actually according to the book Lone Survivor, the 4 guys had the element of surprised and ambushed the search party, killing a few in the opening shots.

>>35172611
They were providing securty for an intelligence asset orchestrating a coup d'etat of a sovereign nation. Causing massive instability. Yeah. Sneaky pete shit. If the us had gotten involved on a greater scale it woukd have exposed the level of the us involvement. This type of shit happens all the time. When you hear of countries having a revolution there is usually a superpower helping out behind the scenes. They just try not to get caught. Notice there was us special forces that showed up to demo classified material. Care to bet they were there the whole time. Running operations during the coup. Care to bet that their level of involvement will remain classified for the next 20 years. The reason the gov lied a out benghazi is thats what they do. When has the govt ever said they were actively involved in helping overthrow a government.

>>35173533
>Responding to the weakest of baits.
You're better than that.

>>35166386
>we hardly have any AC-130s left
Is this true? Why? Doesn't the US have about a million C-130's that could be refitted into gunships?

>>35144547

Life isn't an anime faggot. Some 14 year old nigger hiding in a bush can place a 9mm bullet on the back of your head no matter how many tactical classes you take and weights you lift

>>35174805
Yes. And we use drones for the purposes that other moron was talking about.

>>35144644
>Irreversible raped.

I am curious now, how is a reversible rape?

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>>35149081
What do you have time for?

>>35176039
It's a reference to a movie where a woman gets raped by a gay man. 'Irreversible' is the title.

>>35177313
Eating green berets for breakfast