Paul Ryan the Turncoat: Blocking National CCW Reciprocity

>>35138415
That'll never happen since Wisconsin is full of retards who have kept him in office for years just like the retards in Arizona who keep electing McCain.

>>35138415
He was never on our side to begin with.

>>35138415
This fucker is keeping it up I bet he'll also keep up the SAGA act too

>>35138415
States right faggot, quit federalizing your feels

>>35138487
This. When are gun owners going to figure this shit out? Republicans know they'll get your vote regardless. Why should they do a damn thing once they're elected?

>>35138505
As much as I don't want to agree with this I do. But there should be a CCW that can administered by any state and any state can choose to recognize it. Plus put in a call system where you can check to see if an individual is able to own firearms.

Has anyone heard anything new about the Hearing Protection Act? I thought their was a good change suppressors were coming off NFA

>>35138566
When I talked to Sen Dean Heller's staffer at a Republican meeting last month he said that they are "working on it" and he kept coughing and moving away.

I'm not going to be treated that way so I grabbed a chicken drumstick and some thighs that I pushed in his face. I told him "you see this belly? You are working on it!" as I pushed the chicken fat and glaze into his mouth and plucked the skin off my teeth.

It was a cold day on lake thaoe.

>>35138566
It's basically dead at this point as far as anyone can tell. There hasn't been any progress on it in months. They've also introduced similar measures in the SHARE Act and SHUSH Act, so hopefully one of those will pick up more momentum. If any of these three ever get passed, it'll most likely be because it was tacked onto a more important bill like a new healthcare law or something.

>>35138505
Constitution surpasses states right you cocksucking nigger

>>35138566
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/09/jeremy-s/hearing-protection-act-inserted-h-r-3668/

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>>35138415
>This treasonous piece of shit needs to be primaried out

Good on him. Most people are quick to invoke the 2nd amendment as a right but don't seek training which is a responsibility. I'm not bothered by it one bit, stop your whining, get your permit and some training.

>>35138999
CCW reciprocity is for people who already have their permits you idiot.

>>35138487
PAUL RYAN WAS SPY?!?

>>35138999
You are aware that many states don't issue permits or make their requirements onerous and expensive?

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>>35138520
>tfw gun owners are left with no other choice but to vote Republican because the two-party system means that voting anything but GOP helps the Democrats, the party of anti-gun

>>35139105
>tfw pro-gun socialist
>tfw more pro-gun than repubs, WAY more socialist than dems
>tfw too poor to afford face

>>35139131
>tfw pro-gun socialist
ie larping commie

>>35138505
>states rights faggot, quit federalizing your rights
thanks anon, forgot the right to keep and bear arms totally can't be protected by the federal government like every other right in the bill of rights is along with the rights that aren't really rights but the fed realized they liked such as to gay marry and not be discriminated against even by private businesses

>>35138415
Paul Ryan is a neo-con wannabe Randian cuck who serves only his corporate masters. He was never interested in CCW reciprocity.

>>35139171
>socialist=communist
seems legit, that's why they're the same word and everything, right?

>>35138415
>the-timings-not-right

You're fucking shitting me. I hope this fucker gets primary'd.

>>35139227
>A hart isn't a deer because they are different words
>A bovine animal isn't a cow by that same reason

>>35138952
ugh why aren't they tacking the SHUSH act on instead of the comparatively-shit HPA?

>>35139264
More like
>an elk is a deer because they both have horns
>a wolf is a coyote because they're both doggish

They're different because they are different words that more importantly have different meanings

>>35139301
Actually, it's more like the "cow" thing since they are words that are somewhat related albeit used in some what different contexts since you can call any ancestor of the cow along with the cow "bovine". You can use the word communism and socialism interchangeably in most everyday circumstances and the majority of the population will understand what you mean: a failed economic-govermental system that is impractical due to it's inability to account for human psychology and economics itself.

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>>35138415

>>35138415
>treason
>Anything I don't like is treason!
I hate how much people use this word. It has no fucking meaning anymore, and arguably never did in the first place.

>>35138462
Wisconsinite here, this is the fudd state. If it isn't a pump or a bolt action, what's it good for? That semi-auto shit will blow a whitetail to pieces!

>>35139378
>You can use the word communism and socialism interchangeably in most everyday circumstances and the majority of the population will understand what you mean:
Literally retard pleb tier, they have important differences and the average 4channer not knowing the difference between them is hardly a persuasive argument

>a failed economic-govermental system that is impractical due to it's inability to account for human psychology and economics itself.

I mean yea just look at how every socialist state has failed and it isn't totes like pure capitalism with no socialistic services essentially doesn't exist or anything.

>inb4 venezuela

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>>35139131
A poor socialist! Imagine my surprise!

>>35139518
>I mean yea just look at how every socialist state has failed and it isn't totes like pure capitalism with no socialistic services essentially doesn't exist or anything
You mean like the USSR, the Eastern Bloc in general, pre-1975 China (before Deng Xiaopeng's economic reforms that made China more of a mixed model), Vietnam (which itself is becoming more capitalistic because their socialist experiment failed), Cuba (which is doing much the same really), Cambodia (ditto) and Venezuela (which is failing because Chavez decided to distribute the wealth 100% instead of being more measured and using some of that to invest in other industries other than oil and using the rest for well-needed social programs and Maduro doing much the same) are capitalistic now, even though all these nations either prevented or made it extremely hard to start a private enterprise and had a state-run system where the the wealth of the people, by a gov't that was created with this intention in mind?

>>35138505
>what is Full Faith and Credit clause

>>35138782
>he’s never heard of the 10th amendment!
Laughingwhores.tiff

>>35139599
>USSR, the Eastern Bloc in general, pre-1975 China, vietnam, cuba, cambodia
communist, not socialist

>venezuela
socialist and failing due to endemic corruption and mismanagement typical of the region, claiming that is due to socialism requires one be entirely ignorant of south/central america. also worth noting that latin american socialism is different from other forms of socialism and many economists have pointed towards these differences being rather important to the short lived and inefficient nature they tended to enjoy.

>either prevented or made it extremely hard to start a private enterprise

one of the most important cornerstones of successful socialistic countries is not doing this, and there are plenty of examples.

All of your examples are communist shitholes and a single socialist shit hole. Totally non cherry picked examples. Do you even know what socialism is?

Protip: it's a spectrum of similar systems and not a specific one unlike communism.

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>>35138415
Drain the swamp!

>>35138462
Wisconsin also voted for Trump.

>>35139740
>communist, not socialist
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism
>communism (from Latin communis, "common, universal")[1][2] is the philosophical, social, political andeconomic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of the communist society, which is a socioeconomic order structured upon the common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money[3][4] and the state.
There clearly were classes, a gov't and money in all these states so they were socialist.

>socialist and failing due to endemic corruption and mismanagement typical of the region
Yeah and the fact that they spent most of their oil money on social programs instead of investing some in their oil production facilities. Russia and Saudi Arabia (two other major oil producing states) also took a hit from the US finding massive oil reserves and exporting the excess in to other world markets, but they aren't welfare states and they both had banking as a backup market just in case of such a situation occurring. Now they're in a moderate recession compared to Venezuela, which is in the middle of a revolution.

>
one of the most important cornerstones of successful socialistic countries is not doing this, and there are plenty of examples.

>All of your examples are communist shitholes and a single socialist shit hole.
Except they don't follow the definition of communism and more closely are related to that of socialism

>one of the most important cornerstones of successful socialistic countries is not doing this, and there are plenty of examples.
[citation needed]
Show me, don't tell me.

>>35139826
Also,
>Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership and democratic control of the means of production,[10] as well as the political theories, and movements associated with them.[11] Social ownership may refer to forms of public, collective, or cooperative ownership, or to citizen ownership of equity.[12] There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them.[13] Social ownership is the common element shared by its various forms.[5][14][15]
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

If you can't even tell the difference between a socialism and Communism, you need to stop believing in failed meme ideologies. Same goes for idiots on the right that think Hitler's racialist version of fascism is the only form if it, ignoring Mussolini, Franco and Salazar.

>>35139826
>ultimate goal
If you actually think that vietnam, the ussr, pre 75 china, and cuba weren't communist then you either don't understand the definition of communism or "ultimate goal". Almost any economist or just people with a brain in their skull would agree that they are.

also, why don't any of the highly successful and open western socialist states with literally the highest rates of happiness and health in the world make your list while it's entirely populated by communist states and a couple of doomed from the start and highly corrupt socialist ones?

almost seems like you're cherry picking and conflating different systems of government or something.

>>35139894
>comparing me to people who support hitler
Wow man, what a great argument

>>35139915
I literally posted the fucking definition of the word "Communism" and that of the one of "Socialism" and they the nations you listed clearly are socialist nations since they have a gov't, social classes and money and all you need to be a socialist state is to declare in your constitution to follow the principles of socialism. It's like you're trying to change the definitions of these words to fit your agenda. Also, the Nordic states combined don't even have an economy the size of the Rustbelt, let alone the United States which is still the largest economy in the world followed by China, a nation that follows a mixed model economy. So talks of happiness and health are out of the question in a question about economic solvency.

>>35139940
>Comparing people who don't know the basics of one political/economic stance isn't equivalent to people that don't know about another differing stance.
Nowhere did i say that you were Hitler. I'm saying you're just as ignorant as the people that LARP as Nazis and pretend that non-racialist fascism wasn't a thing as well.

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>Republican POTUS
>Republican House
>Republican Senate
>Republicans in SCOTUS
>Republican voters expecting a lot out of their representatives after a highly partisan election
>"the timing's not right"

>>35140006
Also, I could just compare you to modern conservatives and liberals and how their political positions are basically a result of their ignorance of the classical varieties of their political ideologies and how their political positions are the antithesis of the founding principles of each respective ideology . It's just the exact same thing: people pick political ideologies and the don't bother to read up on the full history of said ideologies, jus the modern variants.

>>35138462
>blaming Jewish antics on Wisconsin

>>35138505
>The Second Amendment
>"states' rights"
You just went full retard.

>>35140055
>republican POTUS
That's where you're wrong, buddy.
New York democrats will always be New York democrats, no matter how much rhetoric they spout.

>>35140091
Prove it with examples.

>>35140006
>blah blah blah that's not what a snippet from wikipedia lead me to believe blah blah anything that shares a single factor with the definition counts as socialism blah blah happiness and health of citizens along with economic success has nothing to do with whether a state is failed or not.

Even your own source lists more of the countries you quoted as being socialist than communist. im not changing what words mean, you don't know what they mean in the first place. if you've really got a source to support those states even being socialist that'd be nice. some more about how every successful socialist state doesn't count and it's totes due to the size and not because im afraid of comparing any non corrupt 2nd-3rd world shit hole that was fucked from the beginning that'd also be swell

>>35140190
communist than socialist, whoops

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>>35139679
>The bill of rights surpasses itself

>>35140190
I'm just going by the Wikipedia definitions. All the supposed communist shitholes had money, a central gov't , and social classes to a degree, meaning they weren't communist as per that definition. They did pledge in their constitution that they would follow the principles of socialism so they're socialist states. Is that so hard to follow?

>>35138505
I am sure you will say that if neighboring states decided to disregard your obviously Californian driver's license.

Fucking moron

>>35140238
>Real communism has never been tried!
Never stops being funny.

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>>35138415
If anything its faggots that support this bill that should be thrown out and shot in the back of the head.

What the fuck do you think will happen when congress is 2/3rds Blue again with a Liberal President with with power to now dictate how all states determine Concealed Carry Law?

Youre putting in 3-7 more years of decent shit for a long game you already know you're going to lose.

Fuck off.

>>35138782
The 10th amendment exists

NY, CA, MA, etc have all decided they don't want CCW in the way the rest of the nation does, thats their choice.

Its faggots like you that can only recite part of the 2nd section of a 10 part document you claim to worship that make my fucking blood boil. You're worse than fucking liberals.

>>35138415
>CCW Reciprocity

Never going to happen while there are 51 different sets of laws governing concealed carry and use of deadly force. Sorry to break it to you.

>>35140238
>no true scotsman
fucking hilarious dude. post it agian, please.

>>35140309
>>35140309
Communism is a fucking pipe dream, just like socialism is frankly. I don't think the people in power in a socialist state will relinquish any power in any form, since it gives them money and power over a toothless populace (since of course they always go after the guns), let alone how would people bother sharing shit when they have nobody telling them that it's a necessity when it's kinda well known humans are kindof dickish (rightfully) and like having personal property, to the point that there are personal belongings in ancient Cro-Magnon burial sites along with the dead human. Same thing goes for fascism. Authoritarianism isn't something a smart person would promote in any form. I'm not advocating for no government, but a smaller less abusive gov't is better than one that is huge and extremely abusive.

>>35140388
Where's the no true scotsman? I'm just going by the Wikipedia definitions. I'm not saying that socialism or communism are viable (they're not because one involves no gov't oversight for anything and relies soley on people being utopically good and the other has failed pretty much anytime it's been implemented to the point that anyone that unironically thinks it will work is probably an idiot). They're different failure-prone concepts though because Communism basically relies on no gov't and being a socialist state just relies on a pledge to the socialist cause.

>>35140448
>the philosophical, social, political andeconomic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of the communist society
>ultimate goal
>I'm just going by the Wikipedia definitions
>All the supposed communist shitholes had money, a central gov't , and social classes to a degree, meaning they weren't communist
>to a degree, meaning they weren't communist
>you're trying to change the definitions of these words to fit your agenda.(not him)
>more of his countries that he considers to be socialism are listed by his source as communist
My personal highlights reel.

>>35140374
>while there are 51 different sets of laws governing concealed carry and use of deadly force.
Literally the reason for National reciprocity

>>35139740
>Protip: it's a spectrum of similar systems and not a specific one unlike communism.

Socialism is on the spectrum.

>>35140520
>how quickly they turn against states' rights when it's something they happen to agree with

>>35138999
The Bill of Rights is not based on tit for tat. The rights dont require anything to to grant them. You have the 1st to express your beliefs here and it doenst require you to have training to speak.

>>35138999
bootlicker detected

>>35139301
Elk and deer dont have horns. Antlers fall off. Horns dont. This bugs the shit out me how people misuse these

>>35140514
But did they have a form of currency and a central gov't in these states? If yes, then they aren't communist for the simple reason that communism necessitates these things. TO be a socialist states just require the constitution of that one makes a pledge to further the goals of socialism or all that ballocks. All the nations he listed above had monetary currencies and a gov't (like the USSR, China the Eastern Bloc and Cuba, etc.) and they had two main social classes: the bureaucrats and everyone else. They're not communist in any sense of the word. They're socialist since they did pledge to further the goals of socialism in their constitution or some other official manner.


Also,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states

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>>35140374
>51 different sets of laws governing concealed carry
When there should be none. What part of "shall not be infringed" dont some states get?

>>35140662
A key phrase from that page:
>They share a common definition of "socialism" and they refer to themselves as socialist states on the road to communism with a leading vanguard party structure. For this reason, they are generally, albeit erroneously, called "communist states". Meanwhile, the countries in the non-Marxist–Leninist category represent a wide variety of different interpretations of the word "socialism". In many cases, they do not define what they mean by it. Modern uses of the term "socialism" are wide in meaning and interpretation.

I think socialism and communism are unattainable ballocks that is believed by the stupidest elements in the world, but you have to understand where you're enemy is coming from in order to defeat them in argumentation.

>>35140662
>But did they have a form of currency and a central gov't in these states? If yes, then they aren't communist for the simple reason that communism necessitates these things.
They tried but then realized that without prices, even government controlled ones, no economy can function

>>35138415
>Implying he's not waiting for more Co sponsors
>Implying this is more important right now than the debt celling

>>35140353
The point is, NY, CA, and MA had no right to change the way the constitution was interpreted in the first place.

>>35140702
Yeah, I'm not even doubting that although probably the reason why they kept money is because gov't bureaucrats wouldn't have a source of income then although you could be right too. They're both failures of an economic system and a political system and really has no place in the modern world. I'm not defending socialism or communism as I'm just trying to clear up a bit of their differences. It's easily apparent they're both economically insolvent philosophies. They're just slightly different, but ultimately related philosophies, like Platonism and Neo-Platonism except less thought out that those two.

>>35140353
The 10th amendment doesn't give states the right to violate the other 9.

>>35140780
They are different philosophies but, if I remember correctly from my time in college as an economics student, the intention of one was to eventually become the other. I think the end goal was socialism specifically of Marx's "march of history" or whatever he called it.

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>>35139227
bernie sanders calls him self a socialist
in the 60-70's he was a communist party member
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2266

http://nypost.com/2016/01/16/dont-be-fooled-by-bernie-sanders-hes-a-diehard-communist/

>>35140826
Ah dicks I was wrong, Communism was the end goal. You think I would remember that considering the name of "Communist Manifesto" which I wrote an entire paper on.

>>35140662
>If yes, then they aren't communist for the simple reason that communism necessitates these things
but, mr "im just going off of wikipedia definitions", that literally isn't what the definition you quoted said.

The definition explicitly says that a form of government that is "attempting" to move to communism is communist. Failing before they achieve "perfect" communism doesn't change this. For that matter you yourself have stated that socialism is a spectrum of various things with a differing current definition than was used by them.

The core of your fucking argument was that contemporarily speaking socialism = past communism, but your "sources" rather thoroughly disagree.

>>35140883

Honestly, Marx is basically everything wrong with Continental Philosophy: It's based on absurd abstractions that result from logical leaps which turn out either to be completely untrue and the end result is something stupid. This is why the American gov't model is based on John Locke's work; because he doesn't ramble on about stupid shit and he makes somewhat reasonable conclusions about the rights of man, on how to structure a gov't to respect said rights and makes a relatively useful economic theory which still holds in principle to this day.

>>35138462
It's those Janesville faggots. Don't lump me in with them.

t. Waukesha

>>35140779
Would you rather state A get to be very lax on gun laws while state B is very strict or have it where both states hand over that decision to the Fed and now both states have to go with state B's laws because they have a bigger population and more funding to lobby congress?

They can interpret it however they fucking want thats the point of the fucking amendment you idiotic shitbag

>>35140812
So what you want the Fed to play by your rules and force them to change to your point of view just so the next libshit in office after trump can ruin all of it?

Do you think just because you won a single election you can have your cake and eat it too, forever?

>>35140926
It also said that a communist society was one where there was no state the workers had common ownership over the means of production and there was no social classes or money as well. There was really was not effort to move society in that direction in these socialist states explicitly because the bureaucrats that ran the gov't had a lot to lose if that happened (namely, money and power). Thus, they never actually moved towards actual communism for the sheer reason that the people that owned the means of production would lose all their assets in the process, because humans are naturally protective of their wealth. And like I've been saying, a socialist state is one that dedicates itself to the principles of socialism, which involves social ownership and democratic means of control of the means of production (i.e. voting or otherwise putting the people in power that will distribute your means of production), which is why there are a large range of ideologies that purport to be socialist. They're clearly different albeit very related ideologies, although they both have never and will never work just based on economics and human psychology alone. However, they aren't the exact same thing.

>>35138462
I'm a wisconsinite and I will be voting against Paul Ryan.
>>35139740
>that's not REAL communism, socialism, etc.
Your fucking retarded system doesn't work. You can't just say its not REAL whateverism when it doesn't turn out to be a utopia. It's like saying it's not REAL alchemy because you didn't turn lead into gold. All you parasites do is turn strong countries into 3rd world hellholes. You belong in the ground with the victims of your failed ideology.

>>35141096
literally in fucking circles.

>because they didn't achieve perfect communism, their expressed goal of communism combined with their inacting parts of it doesn't count as them

You might have a point if it wasn't specifically covered under the definition of communism that your provided. Like a iget that it doesn't agree with your preconceived notions but damn are those some mental gymnastics your going through to convince yourself that a source is authoritative just so long as you agree with it.

>>35141118
>that's not REAL communism
not my argument fucktard, learn to read. my argument is that communism =/= socialism and that he was specifically cherry picking his examples to exclude any functional countries with varying degrees of socialism.

>>35138520
As soon as Americans start voting with violence.

>>35141611
Can you tell me what major moves any of these states made toward communism other than say that we dedicate ourselves to socialism in their legal framework? They didn't abolish any of the major key parts of the gov't nor did they remove the use of currency. They also had social classes which still existed in these societies and they still had people in power to distribute the means of production and that didn't change until most of these states collapsed (and that largely is the case now in the ones that still survive). The USSR, Cuba, China (to an extent although it has moved towards the capitalistic side by a good margin since 1975) and all the countries I've said are socialist before still fall under the term "socialist states" since there hasn't been a movement towards communism in any of these countries and they weren't capitalistic (barring China to a degree) in any sense. Hence, since officials were put in power to distribute the means of production, they're so they're socialist. and if you want a somewhat functional socialist country, why not look into Bolivia? It's more functional than it's northern neighbor because it's at least smart enough to not go full socialist and liquidate all your wealth on social programs instead of doing reasonable investments in your social programs and on economic infrastructure.

>>35140582
It's not a states rights issue because the second ammendment is specifically laid out in the consistution.

>>35139131
>socialist
>too poor
Sounds about right.

>>35141776
motherfucker, socialism encompasses anything from mixed economy, nanny state, and nordic model to yes full on red flag waving authoritarian shitpublics. Communism however always refers to a shitpublic. Thats literally the only issue people have with you using them interchangeable because socialism is a broad brush and communism is a singular bristle.

>>35143354
>Communism however always refers to a shitpublic.
It refers to a stateless utopia where the workers distribute the means of production evenly among themselves.
And yes all those things you describe also encompass socialism. So does the "shitpublic" you talk about since they all have in common the gov't doing the job of distributing the means of production. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it untrue and just because you follow a meme ideology doesn't mean it's economically solvent since spending large sums of money on social welfare instead of investing it in economic infrastructure and maybe using the rest for welfare is bound to cripple the economy of any nation that practices such an ideology.

>>35138505
>Muh constitution is infallible

>>35143413
Feel free to amend it

>>35139227
According to Marx (the guy who invented both words) you require socialism to get to communism, and the end goal of socialism is always communism. For almost a century socialism and communism were interchangeable terms until you Jews started with the "it's totes not the same, bro!" BS.

>>35140582
Supremacy clause you window licker. 2A Trumps states rights just like every other part of the constitution does.
>inb4 10th amendmurnt!
>The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people
>Powers NOT DELEGATED
>2nd Amendment specifically states the right to keep and BEAR arms shall not be infringed.

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>>35139131

>>35138520
>Republicans know they'll get your vote regardless.
Not if they keep this chit up. I am sick of ryan and his buddy McBain.

>>35139597

This.

>wwwwwaaaaahhhhh I don't wanna work
>WORK IS SLAVERY

Pretty sure if you dig deep enough all hardcore socialism boils down to people hoping shit will just be handed to them and they won't have to work hard.

Working your whole life and then dying isn't some social construct made up to oppress people, its just how life works. Before modern society existed you worked in a field or hunted/gathered every day until you died, which generally happened a lot sooner because if you got sick or didn't have any food there was no safety net and you just starved to death.

>>35143229
People seem to forget that the constitution is the rights of the people and places restrictions on government. Not rights of government to restrict the people. It says what the government shall not infringe upon.

>>35143685
Seriously. Socially liberal people who are ardent pro-2a will vote dem if repubs fall asleep at the wheel on the 2a

>>35138462
I don't understand how a terminally ill man with a brain tumor is allowed to make decisions of national importance

>>35138505
This is as misguided as think state driver's licenses are dictated by the fed

If the SHARE act makes it past committee hell I bet the faggot will block that also.

>>35140996
Tell me, could New York pass a law that makes it illegal to call someone a cunt or would that fail to hold up in court?

Cunt.

Anonymous ## Mod 2017-09-12 09:04:31 Post No.35146960
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