Combat Shotguns

>>35138157
We had 1 in the Vic but rarely used it. It was for breaching.

It has been used on the enemy (not my unit), but it always involves a situation like was getting ready to breach and the crazy son of a bitch hadji zerg rushed out the door so they fired it because it's what they had.

They are not the best but they are certainly something. With training you can do a lot with a shotgun

>>35138222
What loads did you use?

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They were definitely effective at one point

>>35138303
00 buck. Another reason it's not preferred I imagine, the spread. In the military they always said the 4 safety rules but the unofficial 5th was "know your target and what lies beyond it". Aka please don't shoot civilians.

If they wanted it used for combat I imagine they'd give us slugs

Keep in mind the military is a cluster fuck of regulations. Like the other anon said with good training you COULD use it as a battle weapon even tho the US military doesn't.

>>35138157
probly good for HD
and if course for a Truck Gun

>>35138354
>2017
>falling for the truck gun meme

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The shotgun is a good choice for home defense, where your distance of engagements isn't extended to 800 yards. The reason militaries use rifles is because they are flexible in distance they can be used in.

Shotguns are really fucking great for close range engagements. Rarely do you need more than one round of buckshot to stop an attacker, given that you put all the shots where they need to be (their face or high in the chest)

Rifles are great for close range engagements AND long distance engagements. Why is this so fucking difficult to understand? Also shotguns like in OP's pic that are adorned with shells out the ass are fucking dumb. You won't need 30 rounds of buckshot to deal with a threat such as a home invasion and you will just weigh yourself down for no real reason.

>>35138339
>the unofficial 5th was "know your target and what lies beyond it"
That's already #4 though

>>35138157
Shotguns are GOAT in my opinion for civilian to civilian situations, e.g. home defence or riot control/SHTF because it is very flexible and ammo is fucking everywhere, heck you can even improvise yours if you have at least fresh primers and powder.

I do believe they aren't actually so used by trained forces because I guess their doctrine is on controlled fire/burst fire, which is basically made by the AR / Pistol combo and focus on fast shot placement, requiring also light recoil calibers (thus, .223 and 9mm).

Shotguns are powerful but nowhere near as easy to control and double tap like a rifle, carbine and ultimately pistol.

>>35138523
These were the 4 we used:

Treat every weapon as if it were loaded.

Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you intend to fire.

Never point your weapon at anything you don't intend to shoot.

Keep your weapon on safe until you intend to fire.

Then that's the fifth. I know what you're saying tho. There is some variance depending on ranges and instructor.

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>>35138401
>he doesn't drive a pillbox

>>35138607
>Keep your weapon on safe until you intend to fire.
But what if it's decocker only? :^)

>>35139248
It's the military rules. Civilian ranges don't include it sometimes because not all weapons have a safety. Not all Mill ones do either, but the ones you quall with do.

That's why the military has a further set of rules called weapons condition, which not all apply to every weapon.

/k/'s autism has me at a loss to explain more. Just do whatever you want I don't really give a shit.

>>35138157
They work and they work particularly well for CQB against unarmored opponents when compared against typical GI ammo. No variable performance to worry about, tend to put butts in seats very well.

Here's a write up a supposed marine did on the subject a while back.

https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/1oko69/the_mossberg_590_in_combat_the_experiences_of_one/

>>35138222
>vic
>hadji
>for breaching
>muh units
hmmmm

>>35139359
>CQB
>GI
>Butts in seats

hmmmm

Yeah because vets don't post here and that's what we called them, do I have to edit shit for civilians? Sometimes I do if I think they won't understand something. But I'm not going to call it something different fag fuck.

But you understood all that as you were masterbating to generation kill, didn't you?

>>35139424
>mixing civvie and military lingo in an unclear fashion that implies he operates in a ""unit"" that drives around in crown vics with shotguns kept in the back solely for breaching that operated against "hadji"

>claims that the us military doesnt use shotguns for combat due to "regulations"

can you really blame me for being suspicious when you throw up these kinds of flags on an anonymous tibetan throat singing forum?

>>35138551
This.
Shotgun a best for SHTF because of ammo availability and the sheer amount of shit you can cram into a shell.

It's not the optimal weapon, but it is the optimal gun for a world with very little ammo.

>>35139483
If anything I was just clarifying for OP.

He called it shooting locks, I just told him it's called breaching.

Here:
Vic - vehicle, in this case Humvee
Hadji - brown person, called Hadji to dehumanize them
Unit - in this case I said "not my unit. As in to illustrate it never happened to me or guys I know. If I was stolen valoring probably make up some crazy story like "yeah bro I killed a lot with a shotgun"

No, people lie here all the time. You making the assumption is just as douchebag tho.

>>35139291
NRA shotgun ranges are obsessed with the safeties rule, which is just one reason I avoid those fudd nests.
The modern production combat shotgun is typically targeted at the civilian and law enforcement market, which is where their utility is useful. I don't know who is buying the $2k+ Italian shotguns though because they seem really redundant for their actual uses. I know I bought my tactical model mostly for HD and range shenanigans and I reserve the 870 for sport/hunting.

>>35139553
OP here, thanks for your response. I appreciate the knowledge.
What about the m1014 was that used for breaching too? Or is that more of a specialized weapon?

>>35139553
Nice to know about that whole vic thing, only ever heard it used to refer to a crown vic or a victim.

Mind if i ask when/where you served? wonder if i might be running into that more in the future or if it was just before my time.

>We had 1 in the Vic but rarely used it. It was for breaching.

guess for some reason i didn't realize you were actually trying to say

"we had one in our vehicle, oh and they call it breaching fyi."

to most civvies that'd read as

>we had one in the crown vic, it was for breaching.

then there's the whole "the US doesn't use shotguns in combat" thing, which wasn't true as recently as the 00s but i'd love to hear some kind of source to the contrary.


Oh and TBQH i was honestly more thinking that you were a LARPer pretending to be a cop while referring to brown people as hadji( or outiside chance an ex mil leo mixing acronyms) and thinking cops only used shotguns for breaching than i was that you were somebody pretending to be ex mil

whole vic thing really threw me for a loop

>>35139756
I'm 90% sure that's what we had. I didn't say it earlier but I was a Marine Infantryman, I never admit being a Marine because we get trolled a lot. So I say 'I was a US Infantryman' to hide under big army.

It looks like what we had, I know it was a Benelli. The reason I won't say for certain is I never fired it, or fucked with it much. Like I said rarely used. I think maybe twice the entire deployment. Most hadji, I'm sorry that upsets that one anon, most brown people overseas mud huts are in disrepair. My squad leader loved to walk around with it too look cool/different. He fired it both times, I wasn't interested too much in it. I do own a 870 since I'm out tho.

>>35139861
Np bro. Easy to misunderstand people when only text. Wate under bridge.

Thanks for clarification, you're a bigger man than most.

>>35139905
fuck you for ignoring my blatant sarcasm and being the bigger man.

If you keep this shit up this'll actually end up as water under the bridge and then i might starve from a lack of (you)s.

I feel thoroughly defeated...

>>35139861
I was a 0311 that joined in 2007. That's a marine rifleman, infantry. See I have no problem explaining if you say you don't know. There's people who are civilians here who know more, or at least think they do than me. Plus my brain goes into military mode when explaining military stuff.

Anyway I deployed to Iraq in 09, Sinjar (where they say God cast Lucifer down to Earth) and Ubaydi. Then in 2010/2011 I was in Afghanistan in Helmand province.

2nd Battalion, 1st Marines.

>>35139953
Oh. I just thought you were retarded.

>>35139982
Your pump in 09 wasn't with 3rd LAR was it?

>>35139879
>>35139359
Thanks for both of your responses. You have both been very helpful.
I'm assuming this applies to police and SWAT as well (shotgun for breaching and then fall back to long gun).
Looks like I'm gonna have to focus on HD now.

>>35140048
Frankly either choice is great for HD. Most important things are a shoulder fired weapon, basic training, and a plan imo.

>>35139982
wouldn't have anything you could point to about the whole shotguns weren't used for combat thing? Didn't they sometimes give grunts buckshot with them too? heard some stories from a few different people on related things. would be nice to know for next time

>>35140024
I'm not exactly sure. Both my time in Sinjar and Ubaydi was at a company level FOB. Actually Sinjar was at a platoon level. 360 vehicles.

Our company, Echo, got the company level FOB. It was 90% Infantry with a few attachments. It was our FOB, camp Ganon, and the larger one, I can't remember the name. Our sister companies enjoyed the easy life.

>>35138339
You were either never in or a pog. Either way you still don't know how shotguns work.

>>35140116
See >>35138339

I already answered the question in the beginning of damn thread.

>>35140187
Lol, kid. You don't know how wrong you are dipshit.

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>>35138354

>>35140116
I already have a home defense gun and plan, I was talking about the home defense gun market, seeing as how military doesn't really use shotgun offensively

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>>35140187
Another retarded civilian outs himself as noguns. Why do they do this?

>>35138330
>Uses mustard gas
>Considers shotguns inhumane
What did they mean by this?

>>35140208
Forgot to ask earlier did you guys use 2 3/4 inch shells or 3 inch? According to wikipedia the Benelli can use both.

>>35139248
>But what if it's decocker only?
what if its between noon and 5pm on the 3rd sunday of the month and i ate waffles for breakfast before going to the range?

>>35138157
Shotguns are THE quit eventual truck guns. Keep her loaded up with slugs if you encounter a deer or a nagger but keep some bird shot in the glove box if you need to snag some quick dinner.

>>35140165
Ah, just asking because I was there around that time rolling around in LAVs. Technically stationed at sinjar airbase, but spent the vast majority of our time between the mountains and Syria.

>>35140208
So, they typically issued you with buckshot(00), for the shotguns that you were forbidden by regs from using for combat?

And you have no source for any of this but you were a jarhead so you know what you're talking about?

Pretty convincing argument

>>35138607
That's what marines (us) still use for rules they are plastered everywhere

>>35140303
2 3/4
>>35140382
Might have crossed paths, but didn't "operate" together.
>>35140398
No fuckface. There was one issued to the entire fucking platoon. For breaching only. I "know this" because it's not standard issue, special use only.
>Jarhead blah blah
Go back to call of duty you fucking pseudo queef no nothing dipshit baby cock.

>>35138222
So if its only used on the enemy if you get rushed while breaching, whats the procedure?

Guy with shotgun breaches the door, rest with rifles go in and clear but what about the guy with the shotgun? Does he swap to a rifle? Does he stay outside? If he swaps, does he just drop the shotgun or sling it?

I always assumed he'd join rest of the squad by clearing with the shotgun, but I never really thought about it.

Anyone know how riot guns are implemented with the police?

>>35141844
Most likely differs between departments. If you poke around online, you might be able to find a pdf of what your local law enforcement uses for standards loadouts, as well as their special weapons

>>35140453
>>35140556
Lol dumb crayon eating bitches, go buy an EGA sticker for your gun case

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>>35138523
His teacher stuttered!

>>35138157
>>35138330
Shotguns are poorly suited for combat due to the long reload time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6bA9qWPxQ8

>>35140278

Jerry fucking short circuited when a shotgun did just as good as their over engineered bullshit.

>>35138222
bullshit, every dude i knew thats been issued a shotgun has had it with em and used it on dudes with the intention of using on dudes

>>35138551
>double tap

You're shooting 8 pieces of .30 cal balls with a single round of 00 buck. The damage that a shotgun does is utterly devastating..m

>>35139498
Shit I never considered reloading shells for shtf scenarios. How effective would it be to reload birdshot with your own cast 00 shot? I'd imagine the spread would be shitty without a shell designed for 00 but you could make tons of buckshot for $0.15 a pop.

>>35142641
No you didn't airsofter. I fell asleep. I'm up now.

>>35142522
Read the fucking thread you little cocked toddler. It was thoroughly explained why it's different.

>>35141310
READ THE FUCKING THREAD. I said in the first God damn reply.

>>35141310
Ok. I woke up pissed because typical bullshit replies. You asked a real question so disregard >>35143156

The guy holding a shotgun typically has a rifle slung on his back. Shotguns typically don't have slings.

So in this situation, guy has rifle on back, is ready to breach door. Team is ready to stack and enter, but obviously not right by the door. Guy holding shotgun might blast someone running out. At that time the original guys ready to go in would go in.

What the guy with shotgun should do is toss it on the ground and switch back to rifle slung on his back. However if he decides in heat of moment to help clear with shotgun nobody would fault him.

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>>35143062
For starters, you can already improvise a slug round with the cut shell technique, which requires only... a knife.
You basically cut the plastic of the shell near the brass base, almost entirely cut, leaving a couple millimeters just to not break open the shotshell.
Upon firing, those small tabs of plastic left break, instead of having the top crimp open as usual, so the whole upper part + shot charge + wad goes as a single body out of the barrel. Google for more info.

This way you already can transform even light clay loads into mean bastard slugs that are, on top of that, very effective against flesh as they grenade upon impact.

Then, you can transform any shotshell into whatever you want by unloading the shot charge and replace it with anything, like ball bearings, pieces of steel, nuts, bolts, etc. That's the fascinating thing about shotguns, you literally have a hand cannon so whatever can be fitted in, will be launched.

And icing on the cake, the powder required to make effective shotgun ammo, for the 12 Gauge at least, are those used also in pistol ammo.
So if you unload 9mm, 40 SW and 45 ACP you'll have powders well suited for loading 1oz to 1 1/2 oz of lead in a shotgun.

tl, dr: won't choose anything else bar a sidearm in a troubled/survival situation in a common urban/suburban scenario.

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>>35143272
>Ok. I woke up pissed because typical bullshit replies. You asked a real question so disregard
No worries, thanks for answering.

>>35140278

Probably just assblasted that the americans had a reliable mass produced pump shotgun to use in trench fighting and they didn't (as far as I know)

Basically just a weak attempt to take away an advantage from the Americans. I doubt the germans were keen on wasting resources trying to develop and produce their own combat shotgun that late in the war.