AutoRifleman belt-fed vs. high capacity

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bump for high capacity(of the time)

>>35137279
>SAW gunners don't clear rooms
They fuck are you talking about? Yes they do, yes I did. Maybe not wise to be the first guy in the stack.

As for the burdening, yeah but your expected to suck it up.

Line platoons don't have MG's unless attached. You got a lot of shit wrong, I don't got all day to correct you.

>>35137311
W E A P O N S__S Q U A D
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>>35137333
A R M Y
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In the Marines it's weapons platoon. Then they either perform a role their self or attach.

>>35137352
Bitch boi, we are both missing the point here. Especially for the Marines. Imagine equipping all marines with m27's. That would be like equipping all infantry with a shortened RPK. The only thing you would need to do is designate a guy to use high cap mags/drums and presto! You got an AR. wouldn't that be a better set up than lugging around a m249 that, after a bit of dust, turns into a belt-fed bolt action rifle?

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>>35137311
This, cousin carried a SAW. Cleared houses, bashed haji's heads in.

>>35137431
>>35137311
My father works at nintendo too

>>35137279
I think the loss of suppressive firepower outweighs CQC utility. A magazine fed gun simply cannot maintain the same level of fire downrange as a belt fed one. What we should really do is look into a lighter weight belt fed SAW.

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>>35137431
I'm not refuting it can't be done. What i'm saying is that that is very unsafe and should not be done. Imagine kicking down a door to see two haji's with AK's completely dumbfounded. In your mind you are thinking, "this is it. This is where I become Rambo incarnate". You raise you're 249 and start sweeping from left to right and pull the trigger. One bullet flies out and just misses the haji on the left, you continue to sweep the gun from left to right, but to you're horror. The gun doesn't fire another round. You look down at it and notice it didn't feed properly. You look up to see two AK's pointing directly at you.

Not the most Rambo moment now is it?

>>35137426
Well in a perfect world, a Marine squad is 13 men. 3 teams of 4 with a squad leader. So Marines usually have 3 SAWs in a squad. Does that always happen? No a lot of times we ran a skeleton crew squad, but we always made sure to have at least 2 SAW gunners

From what 11bs have told me here, they run 2 teams instead of 3. So it'd potentially hurt them more. Especially if the high cap mag was only say 60. Which I believe that's all they're looking at right now.

Having a 200 round capacity allows for constant fire if SAW gunners are doing talking guns (he fires, then another fires, so when it's reload time there's always 1 gun going.

>>35137475
Have you seen or heard of the new RPK-16? It is part of the AK-12 program. They allegedly are using a 96 round drum that I believe was derived from the AK-107 program. I'm sure you could carry four of those in pouches+one in the gun giving you close to five hundred rounds. Plus maybe a couple more in a sustainment pouch or being carried by an ammo bitch.

Hey dipshit OP, are you unaware that the M249 is belt fed but also accepts M4/M16 magazines?
We have 100 pounds of gear on to start with and aren't basement dwellers with noodle arms, an extra 9 pounds ain't shit.

>>35137526
What is the point you are trying to make? We all know the 249 excepts stanag mag's. I don't know how that contributes to the conversation though. Are you implying to use 249's with mags exclusively? If so, then you would be left with an open bolt weapon that weighs over 15 pounds unloaded. At that point it would absolutely make sense to switch to a dedicated AR closed bolt weapon such as the m27.

As for noodle arms, most of the weight on the soldier is from armor and batteries. With Automatic Rifleman(SAW gunners) having to carry that plus additional ammo only makes my point more valid.

>>35137526
There is some truth to this but I always remind people it's the ammo.

Regular soldier/marine
M16/m4 - 7 pounds
7 30 round mags - slightly more than eight pounds (200 5.56 = 8 pounds)

15 pounds of just weponry

SAW gun - 17 pounds unloaded
3 200 round drums - 24 pounds (remember 200 weighs 8)

Total 41 pounds

I didn't include other gear because that is pretty standard no matter weapon system.

So 41 - 15 = SAW Gunner carries 26 more pounds than his counter parts. In my experience it was having all that weight on your front of body that makes it harder to balance than lifting up the gun.

>>35137605
Would you say, carrying a weapon with 90-100 round drums to equate to a total of 500-600 rounds of 5.56 lighten the load? or is that not enough ammo for a AR/saw gunner?

>>35137605
Oh to add to that also, using a stanag is a good way to jurn your Jam-o-matic SAW into a turbo jam-o-matic piece of shit

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>>35137279
Marines are doing testing with a fireteam ("Uber squad") wholly outfitted with M27s (and other equipment) currently and are possibly to do something pic related.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/06/13/marine-uber-squad-will-get-suppressors-m27s-socom-gear.html

>>35137642
600 rounds was my units standard. Had to have 600.

They did issue us these pouches that held 100 rounds. I just looked threw a box in my closet, because I still have some, armory never asked for them back because issued during deployment. They are called "nut sacs" by SAW Gunners.

The 100 rounds did help with weilding the weight of the weapon. But 600 rounds, no matter how you divide it, is still going to produce same total weight

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>>35137662
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxER2a8vVFM
Video of "uber squad" testing out new gear like suppressors, better LBE, benefits of electronic ear pro, and comms.

Basically the idea is that every infantryman can perform rifleman and suppression duties.

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>>35137662

>>35137718
I guess my question would then be. Which would you rather have? a 20 pound open bolt belt fed machine gun fed with 100 round nut sacs, or a 10-12 pound closed bolt magazine fed rifle fed with 100 round drum mags?

>>35137801
Well the lazy ever bitching at everything Marine in me would of course go with the lower weight.

From a commands perspective the following criteria would need met:
1. Proof the 100 round drum mag worked to mil spec
2. What about the barrel over heating?
(Oh yeah I forgot to mention the spare barrel earlier, add about 4 pounds to make it 30 more than m16/m4)

What that one her guy is mentioning, Uber squad or whatever would make more sense if unable to change barrels. Firing cyclic like that does heat the barrel quite a bit

>>35137801
Isn't the point of the nutsack to hold more than the drum?
Why state the issue in favor of one thing?
Ideally the proper setup should be for the proper environment
Can't have particle sensitive equipment in particle rich environments
Just like you shouldn't drive diesel cars where diesel can freeze

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>>35137279
This is a pretty neat concept I like idea of having a fast, lightweight LMG in one of the fire teams. Say you kept the SAW with your A team to suppress, and your B team AR was rocking an M27, slightly less ammo than the A team AR, it'd be easier for him to keep up and stay energized with his element. I've been a SAW gunners and gun team leader and being a SAW gunner fuckin sucks. We do clear rooms with M249s, I've searched a fuck load of houses with a SAW/100 round nutsack. It sucks and you basically have to keep it under your armpit with one hand, use it to aim your surefire, while searching with your weak hand.
>>35137333
Weapon Squad in the army consists of 2 beefy team leaders humping 240s, and 2 AGs, 2 ABs of you're lucky, one SL, and random attachments like Fire support. 249s are implemented 2 per regular line squads

>>35137482
Hence the hajj head bashing

>>35137878
>2. What about the barrel over heating?
Heavier, thicker barrels. A trick the RPK has been doing for a while and the m27 already has. As for barrel change. I would assume with a weapon such as the m27, with a free float barrel, and 2 MOA accuracy. I would say shorter but more accurate bursts, would prove to be better than longer less accurate bursts. That would be something that would be taught in training. So heavier barrel + shorter accurate bursts might negate the need for barrel swaps.

>>35137662
They're not even hiding that it's a backdoor way to get new rifles now.

>>35137931
It could work, but by your own admission less led flung down range, therefore not AS suppressive.

Keep in mind the average adversary have been hadjis and the most you go up against is usually an AK or a sniper. I think the USMC is planning for that type of war in the future.

The SAW and it's implementation was designed with the ideas of fighting conventional forces who were also well armed and funded.

I think that's the reason they are making the switch. Keep in mind I EASd in 2011 and they said They were testing shit to replace it back then too. So who knows.

>>35137482
how is this any different from a FTF in any other gun

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>>35138091
I say put a lighter LMG with your flanking element, easier to manuever with. Put him with 6-750 round max. It's a neat idea to toy with

>>35137279

Unless a reliable high capacity magazine is invented it's unlikely to happen. I agree with all your points but magazine tech just isn't there yet.

Why the hell would any squad need 600 rounds for an M249? Seems like massive overkill.

>>35137279

You don't understand real world doctrine. Since the Nazis, squads have been built around the SAW, originaly the MG34. He had his assistant and the riflemen protected them, and the point was to suppress with volume of fire via the SAW.

>>35140843

see
>>35141075

>>35137569
OP post was about "durhurr we need a magazine fed weapon instead of belt fed"
Saw does both.
The extra weight is nothing. A squad is all about selection. You don't give the fucking mk19 to Poindexter.
You're trying to reinvent the wheel.
Stop larping with your halo guns and join the military or stfu.

>>35141127
I mean sure, but with modern militaries isn't there pretty much always backup? Like surely air support, or a tank, or another squad are only ever a few minutes away?
>you're dumb
I don't claim to be a military expert.

>>35140843
*underkill

>>35141075
This dingus knows just enough to be dangerous.

>>35137464
show me your dd214, bitch.

>>35137279
other things the soldier carries should be lightened or dropped. the rifle squad NEEDS open bolt switch barrel capability and a heavier weapon is the only way.

The muhreens with their shitty m16 clone are, once again, wrong.