Vatniks on suicide watch

>>35096391
>If ak fags havent already killed themselves, they should start seriously fucking considering it

this changes everything

>>35096391
AKs may be inferior, but I still like them.

yeah because I'll be shoveling huge amounts of mud into my action while in combat

>>35096552
As opposed to the Russian army where they shovel huge amounts into your mud while on base

>>35096552
>go out on patrol
>enemy makes contact
>mg fire rips through the air
>prone to keep head intact
>face first into 6 inches of mud
you may think it doesn't happen, but it happens.

>AR Video
>best AR money can buy
>dips it in water with a bit of dirt in it
>doesn't open the action
>fires flawlessly
>AK video
>thickest possible mud one could ever concieve of, might as well put clay up in the chamber
>cheap parts kit AK with parts that probably don't fit correctly
>focuses the mud all around the action
>"hmmm why doesn't the AK work?"


100% fake news. Keep rifle clean and rifle works fine. Sure it's not a cheap peasent gun like the AR15, but that's the point. It's a gentlemans rifle.

>>35096579
Not the same thing has directly dumping mud on the action. Also where there's mud there's water. Just rinse it.

>>35096615
t. delusional vatnik

>>35096615
AK fag mad because no AK exists to handle this testing done. And asspained to oblivion because there are ARs that can.

Jokes on them, I use a SCAR in real nato

>>35096579
>thinks this scenario will happen in civilian life

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>>35096552

>Because I won't have to dive into a creekbed in combat at any point and time, and crawl on my stomach to avoid getting shot with automatic fire skipping around.

Look, I'm not going to say this is a perfect test by any means, especially when it comes to the quantifiable amounts of mud, consistency, grit and multiplicity of other measurable factors that could be kept autistically consistent when "standardizing" a reviewer test akin to the IWB Committee's ballistic gelatin reviews for the FBI...


...but that particular comment you made there bud is pretty fucking retarded.

>>35096629
go ahead and ask the Americans in Vietnam if it could....oh wait you can't....they're dead

Befelled by the mighty people's rifle! the AK47. I bet Hillary funded these videos.

>>35096649
If you're in a "creek bed" just rinse out the rifle in water and it will function.

I understand that these threads are just shitposting, but these tests neglect to show what happens in a seriously muddy environment, say your mags have dirt on them as they eventually will or your facedive to mud to not get torn apart by MG fire gets your barrel full of mud

>>35096652
Now your gas tube is full of shit, good job boot

>>35096623
>Not the same thing has directly dumping mud on the action.
after you react to contact, your dust cover is open.
>Also where there's mud there's water. Just rinse it.
because when you're under fire, you really have time for weapon maintenance.
>>35096645
merely an observation from my experience.

How the fuck do ak fags even exist after these videos

>>35096391

I stopped watching these when it got too obvious that he was either trolling or retarded.
Specifically in the "1911" mud test.

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>>35096615
Even if what you say was true, which I think is quite exaggerated, the thinner mud would be arguably more of a challenge for the rifle since it would more easily run into the working bits of the action, whereas the chunkier mud is more likely to sit on the rifle without running in and fall off as soon as he shoulders the rifle

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>>35096652

That's a wonderful hypothetical, do tell me what happens when water isn't magically around, or in any meaningful quantity to perform a rinsing? Tell me what happens when you hit the deck to avoid fire, get engaged by combined arms and need to maneuver out of that defilade after indirect fire begins?

What if you're on a bank, creating the smallest profile with "microterrain" trying to discern the direction of contact and return fire, and don't realize the condition when you're in immediate actions to an ambush?

We can play this autismo "what if" game all day, at the end of it if you still come away with "but if der is duh mud u can wash it" mindset without ever conceiving the idea that maybe, just maybe, you can't rely on a puddle of water to coincidentally be in your proximity after taking contact, I don't know what to tell you man.

That's your fucking game plan to execute then man, relying heavily on Schrodinger's Puddle to somehow effectively clean an action while taking fire.

>>35096615
>infamous Vietnam era designed M16
>flawlessly passes mud test

>every AK so far attempting mud test
>click

I fucking hate mud tests and all the autism it promotes from total fucking idiots. A mud test is never a meter for reliability. You might as well test your car by pouring gallons of water in its tank to see if it still runs right.

>>35096391
that test doesn't change the fact that US troop was killed in Vietnam because of AR inferiority

meanwhile no one die because his AK fail a mud test

>>35096651
Upwards towards a million North viets died in that conflict while only like 50k Americans died. Although the Koreans had a better k/d ratio

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>>35096651
>clearly has no grasp of procurement history of the M16 and the ammunition/doctrine missteps made by the US military that led to systemic malfunctions until they were easily remedied by issuing cleaning kits and correct powder composition
>assumes it was because their guns got a little bit muddy

Seriously man read up on the subject before you spew half baked anecdotes as supposed proof that the AK is superior, its not a good look on you

Karl just reeks of "Um ackshually" autism.

I can't even begin to imagine how insufferable he is IRL.

>>35096773
>Upwards towards a million North
about 1 million Viet combatant die in that war, both north and south

most was killed by artillery, bomb and chemical weapon.

>>35096768
>I have no idea what happened with AR's in Vietnam

>>35096783
He also has a proclivity to ameliorate his sentences with big words to mitigate his lack of real knowledge

>>35096768
>hurr durr vietnam mud gun no good
the AR failures in nam weren't mud related retard, it was all maintenance and the DoD skimping on material

>>35096579
You're supposed to fall down on your knees and elbows to keep the mud out of the action...

fucking POGs

>>35096794
>>35096802
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLYLkrethQA
the problem with M16 in Vietnam was chamber pressure.

meanwhile a proper AK can run any kind of ammo without a problem

mudtest doesn't recreated the same condition as the M-16 and AK face in Vietnam

>rip cleaning rod
>clean mud, cum crust and dead animals from barrel and action
Can you do the same, ARfags ?

>>35096808
t. neverserved

>>35096798
I've noticed this as well

>>35096808

While this is truth, the key word in context is "supposed".

Believe me, I'd be pissed at any of the kids around if they submarine'd a fucking belt-fed or personal, but when the time comes, you don't get to micromanage mistakes of others and there are no do-overs.

>>35096823
>meanwhile a proper AK can run any kind of ammo without a problem

And when an AK fails you can claim it wasn't a proper AK, whatever that means.

>>35096739
>chunkier mud is more likely to sit on the rifle without running in and fall off as soon as he shoulders the rifle
That was my only quibble with the video. On the second attempt with the Arsenal, he didn't flip it over to the other side to allow the chunkier crap to fall off. Still doesn't change the result though and with the Valmet failing despite being flipped over the second time AKfags are eternally BTFO

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>>35096391
>both gun do fine in the first mud
>huh huh i will keep mud them until they dead huh huh
what kind of idiot drop his gun in mud after he take it out of the same mud?

>>35096391
>33 replies and 4 images omitted
This is gonna be a good one. AK defense force is mad af

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>>35096841
>And when an AK fails you can claim it wasn't a proper AK
most improper AK are over pressured, so they are less likely to face problem with chamber pressure

>>35096852

An idiot doing buddy rushes in a semi-dry rice paddy. Who knows, it's an arbitrary test with arbitrary results.

>>35096823
>the problem with M16 in Vietnam was chamber pressure.

>the problem
There were many problems with the M16 in Vietnam
>non-chromed innards
>using improper powder not designed during development
>soldiers weren't issued cleaning kits because "self cleaning rifle"

But Vietnam was also 60 years ago and ARs had all of those problems fixed by the end of Vietnam, it also doesn't matter when talking about AR vs AK because you can't force your comparison to only one time period when both weapons are still in use.

>>35096859
Honestly, this thread has been up for two hours already. 33 replies are rookie numbers. I assume most of the AKDF is ignoring this save a few especially persistent vatniks.

>>35096783
Fucking this.
The taking of one's self too seriously is all to common in the Gun YouTuber community but fuckin hell Karl takes it to a new level.

>>35096798

What an unfortunate propensity.

>>35096391
>a Finnish AK beats a Bulgarian AK in mud test
>HURR AR A SHIT
someone's upset

>>35096783
>LET ME FINISH!

>>35096878
>when both weapons are still in use.
so what period is that OK to put shit into your gun chamber to kill it?

after the first test, many people have stated that the trigger group in the Romania AK was a Tapco G2, which could cause problem.

the second test proved that the AK run fine in mud until something get into it chamber and killd it

>>35096910
I think we all know who's the dom in that relationship.

>>35096783
>Our testing under the timer at a match is the end all be all of scientific enquiry
I know that fucker browses /arg/

>>35096391
>ak guys seem to have serious emotional attachment to a mechanical device
He literally called akfags autists

>>35096926
Kek, I bet there safety word is mud test

>>35096953
>He literally called AK fags autists
I'm an AK fag...and I know I'm an autist, it doesn't even hurt to admit it anymore

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>>35096391
>Finnish AK did the best out of all AKs tested

>>35096783
The constant pedantic correction of Ian in there Q&A videos proves you are right

>>35096498
/thread

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AR-fags hating ak for no reason and "vatniks", who believes that ak is blessing from gods are both equally stupid and cringy
AK is considered reliable bc every fucking nigger from some distant african hellhole can use it without propper maintenance and shit will still work pretty gud. The design is also pretty simple that every kid in russian school can field strip this bitch and clean it any time he wants
t.actual vatnik

AK confirmed garbage.
It can keep the Glock company at the bottom of the trash.

>>35096798
Actually it's Ian that does that and uses the word "ameliorate". Why are you pinning that on Carl?

>>35096919
>so what period is that OK to put shit into your gun chamber to kill it?
Listen dude, they poured mud directly onto both bolts. They closed the dust cover on the AR the first time and left it open the second time.

You can find another test where a guy does the same thing but with dry dirt. Same result.

AKs just aren't as reliable as the legend states. People are literally saying that you need a pure Russian AK to beat a Smith and Wesson M&P 15. That alone proves the AK community is delusional.

>>35096971
>"ANYMORE"

Feel that pain as well, but for historical firearms / milsurp. Something about the story of it all justs gets me, enough to where I can read the roll marks off of just about any mosin and identify the factory they came out of, among standard info.

Nothing real impressive, on its own, but combine that with most other WWI and WWII milsurp in capability and it's bringing into the autismo realm.

Meh, it's a hobby.

>>35096991
>my gun is better than your gun cause even low IQ feral niggers can handle it
ARs are a white man's rifle.

>>35096391
>the Valmet is also on the higher end of the Fake AK Line
Top fucking kek

>>35096808
I remember memoirs of soviet girl from bomb disposal squad during WWII. She triggered by mistake grenade booby trap she was defusing (falling back Germans booby trapped everything) and dived for cover into nearby ditch, it was late Autumn of 1944, wet and dirty, and she just got new ans shiny trench-coat. So she didn't dive into deep mud but lied just on the shoulder where was fresh snow. Grenade went off, after she looked over herself she found a hole in the trench-coat inch away from the spine. She was like:
>i am stupid cretin
>thinking that trench-coat is more valuable than my body
After she never hesitated to dive into deepest cover available

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>>35096975

> SPUUURRRRRDOOOOO ;DDDDDDDDDDD

>>35097003
>They closed the dust cover on the AR the first time and left it open the second time.
there nothing cover the AK bolt

so that mean the AK was mud test more than the AR

>>35096777
are you really surprised some low brow is getting mad Ian and Carl both are well known in firearms community and obviously have mechanical knowledge on these weapons but hey what can you expect some people are morons

>Valmet with shitty wire stock replaced by aesthetic WOOD
I need this

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>>35096552
>"AK most reliable rifle! rifle is fine! mud and dirt never make it fail"
>mud test shows it eat shit
>"y-yeah well I won't put mud on mine!"
EVERY
FUCKING
TIME

>>35097014
No, that means the AK design doesn't allow for coverage of the bolt. Just like an AR with the dust cover open.

Yet isn't the legendary AK supposed to be left in a mudhole for decades and have a full mag run through it no problem? Or so the legend says.

>>35096391
Why don't they pour mud into the action of an AR-15 when the bolt is open? Because there's a good chance that if you drop your weapon, it's when you're reloading. Then check how long it takes you to put the rifle back into action. Repeat process with the AK and compare both times. That would be a better test. Another interesting test would be to completely submerge both rifles in mud and check how long it takes to put them into action.

>>35097042
>why not pour mud in a way that is guaranteed to cause failure on any gun
gee bill

>>35097042
>follow my arbitrary rules until my gun wins!

There's a good reason, no matter the country and no matter the gun, they teach infantryman to keep their rifles clean of debris near the action if at all possible. The AK is not an exception.

>"I'm sorry Finland"
lel

>>35097007
I didn't said that it is better rifle. I said it's as reliable as it should be. But expecting it to flawlessly shoot after the shitton of mud into the action is somewhat delusional

>>35096552
You know, they haven't said that this is a real life scenario. Actually quite the opposite, they've said this is worse than trench conditions which is unrealistic as fuck.

>>35097092
ARs seem to be able to handle that no problem

They're in a desert, I wonder if having the mud dry quickly into dirt has any different impact

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>>35097121
But will it be able to handle niggers?

>>35096743
Keep your rifle out of the mud, simple
Also a little mud isn't going to lock up an ak, shoving your rifle under the mud might.

Even if you take cover you land on your elbow with rifle above ground, you don't land on your rifle. Every idiot knows this.

>>35096901
None of th AK's passed the mud test.

>>35096615
>BCM parts build
>best AR money can buy

Umm no sweetie, try again

>>35097038
>Yet isn't the legendary AK supposed to be left in a mudhole for decades and have a full mag run through it no problem? Or so the legend says.

did you even watch the video? both AK run fine in first mud, they only killed after they mud them again and something get into the chamber

Dude they used mud favored water for the ar 15 and goddam pottery clay for AK, I hate AK but fuck dude that was biased as fuck

>>35097344
that's because the AK design allowed mud to get into the chamber

>>35097180
Caveman/10

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>>35097374
no, that because he did not shake off the remaining mud on the gun

and they asked why both gun only fail in the second mud

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>>35097435
same thing with valmet

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>>35097435
>>35097465
this test is a joke, and Karl is a retard

people who consider the result of this test as valid are moron

>>35097435
>>35097465

So why would mud on the charging handle cause AK pattern rifles to jam

>>35097435
>>35097465
This is pretty sad grasping at straws desu

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>>35097490

but anon if you just get the outside of some guns dirty they do better, so obviously they are better guns

>>35097493
have you watched the video?

mud get into the chamber. any gun will fail with stuff inside the chamber. a bee fly into AR-15 chamber will jam the gun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFg4n5FKRcY

he did not shake off the mud when the mud them again and left more mud in the ejection port

>>35097502
only retard left mud in the ejection port and shoot the gun.

>>35097514

The whole point of the conversation is that this is a flaw in the design of an AK

Other guns have more contained designs that don't allow mud to get inside so easily

Other guns, including the AR get mud on their bolt carrier and still function

For as long as the AK has existed you'd think they'd have addressed this.

>>35097522
>Other guns, including the AR get mud on their bolt carrier and still function

no the AR gets mud on the dust cover, they rack it and it shoots fine, same as when they get mud on an AK set to safe

mud tests are dumb retard shit and everyone who cares about them is a dumb retard

>hurr im gonna just pick up this gun from a muddy ditch and expect it to shoot fine without even attempting to briefly clean it

>>35097543

No, they open the dust cover and pour mud directly onto the BCG

>>35097543
The dust cover was opened retard

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Holy shit! They LITERALLY had to make sure to put you delusional /ak/ fags back in the ground because of your autistic screeching with this! I'M DYING!

>>35097514
It's a huge design flaw.

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>>35096615
>AK is a gentleman's rifle

>>35096615
>muh monkey model

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>>35097522
>>35097614
>The whole point of the conversation is that this is a flaw in the design of an AK

so rigging the test the prove your point is good?

watch this webm, he shook off all the mud from the AR-15 and did not do the same for the AK

the AK was rigged to loose, that is why both AK and Valmet fail in the second mud, not the first

also this 3mb limit is so gay

>>35097707
These are two different mud tests, Igor

>>35097720
that the point, retard

in the AR-15 mud test, he shook off all the mud

>>35097546
>>35097567

i'm talking about mud tests in general

they never do things the same and the results are always different, let alone the entire scenario being nonsense

it's fucking stupid and a waste of time

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>>35097736
this anon get the point

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>>35096552
>"Guys no really mud doesn't exist on any battlefield!"
>Never seen FT Knox or FT Leonard Wood when it rains
>Being this autistically reliant on a mechanical device

>>35097736
>>35097753
I would agree with this in that, they always put the same weight of mud, from the same spot, with the same amount of water. I do think the AR test was more "soupy" than in the AK test.

>>35096999
karl uses both words in the same sentence sometimes

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>>35097772
>mud exists
>therefore we must submerge our guns in it

>>35097772
the whole point is you atleast shake off the mud before you shoot

if you let thing inside your chamber, anygun will kill

watch this webm >>35097707
and this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFg4n5FKRcY

>>35096975
>stock fucking shattered when mortared

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>Valmet stock broke
OH NOES

>>35096651
>he doesn't know about how badly the AK-equipped VC and NVA got BTFO by M16-wielding US GIs

>>35097797
I think that the AR test isn't the same as the AK tests but likely not for the same reason as you.

The AR tests mud looks fairly soupy when compared to that of the AK tests.

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>>35097817
most kill are accounted for artillery, bomb and grenade launcher

you need more than 2 mililion round of 5.56 to kill a VC in Nam

and most tier one force did not use M16

picrelated is a HK33, remember that the G3 also fail mud test?

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>>35097793
Its not something that is uncommon in combat.

>Moving from cover to cover
>Not wanting to have head removed
>Throw yourself down to get into cover fast
>Slide through mud
>Weapon covered

>>35097831
>The AR tests mud looks fairly soupy when compared to that of the AK tests.
yes the mud are different and they did not handle the gun the same

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>>35097844
>Slide through mud
>Weapon covered
>did not even shake off the mud
>fire the gun anyway
>gun jam because mud get into the chamber

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>>35097844
>gun gets mud on it while you are trying to not die
>can't be bothered to clean it enough to function properly before shooting like an autistic high speed low drag fuckup
>gun jams
>die anyway

>>35097856
>did not even shake off the mud
You cannot shake off mud that has made its way inside of the weapon.

>>35097831
>>35097847
The SP1 test has similar consistency mud to the AK tests, but they did shake it clear. You can still see some mud resting on the bolt carrier after shaking and before shooting though.

Even so, the AR is likely to perform better than most in any kind of similar test, thanks to the operating gases venting out the side of the carrier blowing stuff away from the carrier/port/chamber, in addition to the trigger/etc being well sealed.

The two smallbore AKs tested looked like they died by a bit of mud left on the bolt carrier being flipped into the chamber as it cycled, not due to ingress while closed.

>>35097881
>You cannot shake off mud that has made its way inside of the weapon.
as you can see in the OP video, mud only get way inside of the weapon because they not shake it before shoot, that is why both gun fail in the second mud

>>35097856
>>35097875
You can only shake so much fucking mud off. But I guess AK autists don't know what mud looks like since they haven't left their rooms in a month.

>>35097899
Also, a BCG lightly wetted with oil as is common with ARs is less likely to hold onto mud with minimal shake off. Dust, on the otherhand...

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>>35097899
there was less mud in the ejection port after he shook it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyXndCxn9K4
compare to >>35097435

there is a huge different

>>35097918
>You can only shake so much fucking mud off.

if you can't shake enough off or open the action to empty it don't fucking shoot the gun, it's not ready to fire

basically if you end up in this situation you fucked up and need to handle your shit before you can fight back

take care of your rifle, it's not a piece of shit you can just drag around

>>35097366
Guess what nigger? Runny watery mud will creep deeper into the gun whereas thick almost solid mud will just lay there and fall off without entering the gun.
The test was stacked against the AR and it still BTFO the vatnik meme rifle.

>>35096798
Karl’s use of “proclivity” and Ian’s “ameliorate” I like what you did there.

>>35097913
Except there is a large opening into the receiver when the dust cover isn't closed.

>>35097734
Go watch the Ar vs AK video again sperglord

>>35097945
i already made a webm with it retard

>>35097943
if you leave the dust cover open on the AR-15 and left a huge mud on the ejection port, you will get the same condition with the AK in OP video

in every AR-15 mud test, they shook the gun clean before shoot

they did not done the same with AK and Valmet

>>35097992
but you fucking won't. You'll only get the same result if the BCG is locked back, not when it's down.

>AKfags still in denial

Unbelievable.

>>35097992
They already did an AR test with open dust cover and no shaking off the mud. It still BTFO the AK because the AK is an old and flawed design.

>>35097992
Except on the AR-15 there isn't an actual opening for anything to get into, it'll get on the side of the bolt but that should just come off of the rifle when it cycles.

Mud tests were a mistake.

Just an excuse for AR15 to get revenge for literally decades of trolling.

Nevermind that all of these rifles served fine in actual combat- including those that were flatlined by inrange diarrhea. Wouldn't want tiny little facts like that to get in the way of a good shitpost.

>>35098036
>it'll get on the side of the bolt but that should just come off of the rifle when it cycles.

is this something you would trust your life to?

>>35098058
yes, because the entire operating system depends on the gas getting out the side of the BCG

>>35098058
If I had to choose between a muddy AK and a muddy AR, I'd go for the AR.

>>35096889
After proudly “serving” in the “hacker war” he feels the need to spread his pretentious ego to other outlets.

>>35097928
Not saying the tests were fair, but from a design perspective, you can watch the highspeed and compare and see why an AR would do better, even with lots of mud on the bolt carrier group. The AR ejection port is comparatively close in size to the ejected case/cartridge. Almost all of the mud thrown up near the ejection port is thrown away from the action by the ejected case, and there is nothing on the bolt carrier group to bring mud back in. It closes quickly enough that the upset mud isn't in the bolt carrier's path.

The AK ejection port is more like 3x the width of the case, and the case ejects upward rather than straight sideways, leaving any mud on the bolt carrier near the charging handle to get pulled back forward towards the chamber by the charging handle.

>>35098050
>Just an excuse for AR15 to get revenge for literally decades of trolling.
This is the truth. The tests are obviously unscientific, but they do demonstrate that AR15s aren't the fragile jamomatics they are purported to be, and that AKs likewise aren't unstoppable machines because they will still work with ham sandwiches under the recoil spring.

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>>35098025
>They already did an AR test with open dust cover and no shaking off the mud

they did shake the gun and use finger to clean the ejection port

they did not do the same for AK and Valmet

>>35097839
>also pictured is an M16....
Didn't know the snakeeaters used the 33 though, cool.

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>>35098069
>>35098079

guys, you're supposed to be reasonable and say "no I would not shoot a rifle with mud on its action because that's fucking stupid"

this is the kind of behavior I'd expect from someone who owns NOTHING BUT a cheap ass AR and must defend every aspect of it

>>35098109
https://youtu.be/DX73uXs3xGU?t=103

>>35098069
are you saying that 2 tiny gas port can blow all the mud away if they did not clean the gun on this webm? >>35098109

>>35098125
this is why nogun are retard

that gun use a Tapco G2, it cause bolt to hang onto the hammer, the same condition as that video

>>35096615
I hope this is bait because I refuse to admit people think like this

>>35098123
Having mud on the outside of the BCG, that will likely just clear the mud, isn't as bad as having it inside the receiver. I own both rifles and I am familiar with how they function.

>>35098145
>Having mud on the outside of the BCG, that will likely just clear the mud

so try it on your rifle

should be fine right?

>>35098134
Yes, because it's enough gas to blow back the whole BCG. Have you ever shot a AR? Do you know how they work?
>>35098123
that wasn't your question. If you had asked instead "would you rather shoot a gun without mud on it than one with mud", of course I would've said yes. But instead you asked if I would trust my life to a muddy gun, which I would because IT FUCKING WORKS WITH MUD ON IT.

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>implying the ride will ever end

>>35098157
Why would he do that when they already did a video where they did just that

Take your head out of the sand and accept that the fuckhuge slot on the side of the AK let's shit into the reciever, and that doesn't happen on the AR

>>35098162
>IT FUCKING WORKS WITH MUD ON IT.

but you don't know that

>>35098162
>IT FUCKING WORKS WITH MUD ON IT.
can you film your AR-15 with that much mud on it?

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>>35098162
>Have you ever shot a AR? Do you know how they work?
Reminder that you are arguing with people that unironically believe the "shits where it eats" meme

>>35098173
>Why would he do that when they already did a video where they did just that
they clean the gun before they do that
watch this webm please >>35098109

>>35098177
>>35098188
look at literally every mud test video done on it.

>>35098173
>the fuckhuge slot on the side of the AK let's shit into the reciever

who leaves it open?

>>35098201
i've seen both rifles fail, which is why i say mud tests are dumb

>>35098201
on every mud test, they clean the ejection port before shooting the gun

>>35098177
>>35098188
The AR is closed up, there aren't any places for the mud get in through. If you have mud on the exterior of the BCG, it will likely just be blown off when the rifle cycles. You can actually see this happen.


https://youtu.be/YAneTFiz5WU?t=184

>>35098162
>Yes, because it's enough gas to blow back the whole BCG
that doesn't say 2 tiny gas port can blow all the mud away

>>35098198
Wiping off the AK wouldn't have made a difference because the mud is already inside the gun. It doesn't matter that they wiped it off because any mud that could have entered the reciever of the AR would have done so already. Anyone that isn't a retarded slavapoligist understands this.

>>35098216
>who leaves it open?

People going into combat.

>>35098228
but it does. Every. Single. Time.

>>35098216
The one that the charging handle follows back, retard, not the goddamn ejection port

>>35098225
>If you have mud on the exterior of the BCG, it will likely just be blown off when the rifle cycles.
so why do they need to clean the ejection port before they shoot the gun and did not done the same with the AK?

>>35098225
>dust cover is closed

once again, not a real test of anything

mud tests are dumb shit

>b-but it's about the design, it's not about reliability with shit in the receiver!

>>35098234

i'm sure everyone keeps their AR dust covers closed all the time, too

especially during combat when they have to immediately dive into mud after shooting/being shot at

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>>35098233
>they shook the AK in the first test
>it run fine
>they did not shake it in the second test
>it jam
really make you think

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>>35096552
>>35096623
>>35096652

*laughing FN fanboy in background

>>35097038
Except the legend turns out to be reality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqL0dtIeTT8

>>35098241
They did do it with the AK test before it, also you can't really do the same thing with the AK, the best thing you could do is to wipe the side of the bolt carrier but shaking it should do the same.

>>35098254
>dust cover is closed
They did two tests, one open, one closed. Copy and paste the link, don't just open the embed.

>>35098288
>They did do it with the AK test before it,
the one with the Tapco G2 right?

>>35098261
the BCG acts as a dust cover, with an AR you don't need to keep the dust cover closed all the time.
>>35098287
It was being kept in a sealed case covered in cosmoline. Not just thrown into the dirt.
>>35098275
*charging handle hits door frame*
besides, I guarantee an AR made by FN could do that same shit too.

>>35096391
GUN JESUS WHY HAVE YOU FORESAKEN MEN

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>>35096391
>mud in chamber
>mud in locking recesses
>mud on trunnion flats
>mud on bolt lugs
>mud in bolt grooves
>it doesn't work
>>BUT YOU DID IT WRONG!!! USE A REAL AK!!!!!

AK poorfags btfo. I'll stay with my AR

>>35098303
>the one with the Tapco G2 right?

I don't know if it used one, they only stated that the rifle had a Russian parts kit.

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>>35098275
>gun shot 160 rounds
Uh, wow, that's pretty cool, yeah. Good job FN.

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>>35097465
>>35097435
man, AK fags are the worst kind of delusional

>>35098339
most part kit gun use Tapco G2 for 922R

Arsenal and some company use their own trigger group

>>35098342
> not cleaning your gun is delusional
really?

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>>35097839
>and most tier one force did not use M16
Why you so wrong though?
And what do most tier one use now? Oh wait...

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>>35098363
>that changing handle

what the fuck is that?
is that your gun

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>>35098374
Seriously, fuck off

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>>35098340
Man, its like, 160 rounds without failure is better than like, 7 rounds with failure. Good job Kalashnikov

>>35098374
Was there ever a more feminine way to charge a rifle than the T-handle?

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>>35098381
>Seriously, fuck off
why? that look like a early AR-10 changing handle but the rest of the gun is M16
>>35098392
>160 rounds without failure is better than like, 7 rounds with failure
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwSJiAwoMpY

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>>35098361
>other tests show ak being thorughly shaken of mud
>Still fails
>nu-uh! AK still superior!
Make way retards, best SOCOM rifle in the world coming through

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>>35098405
Did you actually just use a completely clean AK being used in someones backyard to a rifle covered in mud over an extended fire fight? I actually cant tell if youre retarded

>>35098412
>other tests show ak being thorughly shaken of mud
>the one with Tapco G2
>gun did not jam, bolt hang onto the hammer

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>>35098440
>>gun did not jam, bolt hang onto the hammer
>NO MUH RUSSIAN AK WOULD HAVE PASSED!!!!

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>>35098428
>hundred of thousand of AK are being use in hot spot around the world
vs
>one SCAR 17 that seen lightly combat

>>35098440
>the one with Tapco G2

There's no way of knowing that. That and by the end of the video there was mud in the magazine. If you get mud in an AK receiver it will make its way around into the trigger group and cause issues with the rifle not going into battery.

>>35096498
Fuckin this. Dunno why we even bother having this argument, it's been nearly 10 years guys, calm the fuck down.

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>>35098494
>lightly combat
AHAHAHAHAAHAAHAAH
DELUIONSAL VATNIK SPEAKS AGAIN!

>>35098494
millions of mosin nagants were fielded

doesnt make them good

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>>35096579
>>35096649
>>35097772
if you're trying to troll, you're not doing it very well.
i'm not an AKfag by any means, my favorite rifle is the aug, but anyway

>>35096552 is clear, has told you that no matter how muddy, shitty and miserable a place is, something that's equivalent to you literally opening the gun's action and dropping kilograms of mud will never; EVER happen unless YOU do it on purpose.

Second, EVERY gun fails if you shovel a ball of mud inside it's chamber

>>35098275
despite that this mk17 is covered in shit and mud it only seems superficial, of course it will work.

>>35097037
who is you quoting, negro?

>>35096991
Yeah. The AR was built for warriors, the AK built for cannon fodder peasants. No one has ever disputed this.

>>35097037
This

>>35096391
Jesus Christ, Karl is right about one thing and that is people get too emotionally attatched to guns. Just look at this shitty thread, the level of delusion happening is unreal.

I don't know why I go to this place anymore. I guess there's nowhere else to go.

>>35098602
Come to /arg/
It's /k/ but without the noguns retards, poorfags, and cod kiddies. The only people that talk shit about it are one if the above.

Not a valid test. It is not scientific because it was not performed in a laboratory, and it has a sample size of one. Additionally, the guns used were inferior non-Russian copies. A real military Arsenal would never have failed in this way.

[spoiler]How's my vatnik impression?[/spoiler]

>>35096826
dont need to

>>35098589
>warriors
>5.56 meme
real man use 7.62
>>35098602
you can hide this thread and browse other productive thread

or go watch your youtube video

>>35098584
The ak didn't get "a ball of mud shoved in its chamber"

It got mud drizzled on its side

>>35098627
because you clean your gun every 100 rounds
>>35098634
>The AR didn't get "a ball of mud shoved in its chamber"

>It got mud drizzled on its side

FTFU

>>35098622
Its full of tripfags.

>>35098641
They got treated the same. The AK let the mud in because it's an open designed slut, and the AR didn't. That's it.

>>35098641
>because you clean your gun every 100 rounds

>The AR didn't get "a ball of mud shoved in its chamber"

>It got mud drizzled on its side

Neither weapon had put in its chamber mud was poured over the weapons with the dust covers closed, and then with the dust covers open.

>>35098644
Yeah, because unlike elsewhere on the board it has a community, and clarity of communication and identification is important in a community. It also holds those posters accountable as by adopting a trip code you become accountable for what you post. Most don't trip outside the general.

>>35098657
>>35098664
and they only clean the AR before shoot as seen in these webm >>35097707 >>35098109

>>35098682
https://youtu.be/DX73uXs3xGU?t=104

Also it doesn't matter if you clean the outside of an AK; if mud gets into the receiver of an AK its going to get around and will make its way into the trigger group, the magazine, and make it more difficult for the rifle to get into battery.

>>35098718
the AK and Valmet in OP pasted the first but not the second mud

both gun was shook clean of mud in the first test just like the AR

>>35096910
>I'll write it in allcaps and an exclamation even though he said it in a normal voice

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>>35098428
Takes anecdotal tale from FN sales reps. about 3K shekel ugg pole as truth over ultimate sustained fire from an AK till it burns.

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>>35096615
Are you even trying?

>>35098634
>>It got mud drizzled on its side
did you even watch the video you nigru

>>35096798
kek I love the guys but this is too true

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>>35098774
>Karl
>normal
Pick one.

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>>35096625 >>35096629 >>35096739 >>35096755 >>35097230 >>35097655 >>35097657 >>35096777 >>35097018
“fake news” “gentleman’s rifle” “hillary funded” AR fags got baited hard lulz.

>>35098622
you're fucking kidding right? generals, ESPECIALLY /arg/ are pure fucking cancer filled with nothing but egotistical, unbearable tactifa tripfaggots. slef-fellating e-celeb-tier behaviour from the main trip-wits, and pretty much impossible to get any useful advice there from anyone else, apart from stale edgy memetic responses and groupthink conformist opinions. Absolutely garbage.

>>35097655
give it a couple dozen years, every single conflict south of America is going to have ARs in them

>>35098584
Steyr died with Ledwinka.

>>35099051
Generals are one of the worst things to ever happen to this site.

>>35099158
i went there expecting good discussion on parts/mods/brand comparisons etc, all i got was edgelordery and tripfaggotry. Avoid at all costs.

If your AK is caked under so much mud, then I'd wager you have more pressing matters at hand that firing your rifle back at the enemy, such as for example crawling out from under the 6000 tons of mud you're currently buried beneath.

>>35099188
The problem is you expected it to be anything other than a containment thread

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>>35097804

The broken stock was wooden rifle stock version only used with one single version of semi-auto-only rifles Valmet manufactured for civilian market.

None of Finnish rifles manufactured for military use ever used that stock design. The standard issue Finnish rifle of that era is 7.62 RK 62, which used/uses tubular steel stock which is practically undestructible.

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>>35096777
>unironically explaining to troll why M16 sucked in nam.
Lulz you're the type of autist to see shits where it eats and immediately spergs out to it.

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>>35096552
>>35096615
>>35096623
>>35096645
>>35096808
>>35098584
>not realistic conditions
>would never ever happen!
Even a fucking Volvo is more reliable in a mud and dirt test without lubrication and cooling, so suck it up fagtrons
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btrl9BCOs6g

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>>35096391
>Rifle with loose tolerances and a fuckhuge ejection port handles mud worse than a rifle with tight tolerances and the smallest ejection port they can get away with
Oh gee, ya don't say?

>>35096498
This, the VZ preformed like absolute fucking ass in the mudtests but I still love mine.

>>35096868
something something if i did the test it wouldn't fail something something

>>35098340
160 rounds under actual shitty combat conditions.

Sure beats your YouTube 10000000rd reliability test don in their grandpappy's backyard.

>>35099051
Did they make fun of your poor-tier AR? Don't feel bad.

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>>35099254
>all that shit he threw into the engine
Revolting

>>35096615
this

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>>35096391
I killed my valmet m78 in under 5 seconds, turns out it doesnt work with a receiver and chamber full of ants and dirts. Ill eventually test my other valmet, i really want to do a freeze test this winter

>>35099254

Why the fuck would these white trash retards trash an engine for no reason like that. Some poorfag could have driven that box for two years probably.

>>35098784
If you tried comparing an FN melt down test to your precious little slav shit gun I might take you seriously

>>35096391
Ok, now what about a realistic scenario like a dust test.

>>35098784
>>35099538
Can anyone tell me what particular iv8888 video this is from?

>>35099588
RPK melt down. Key word:RPK, because if he linked the AK melt down he would start crying because that melted in under 300

if anything, all these tests prove is that the AR is sealed better against the elements than the AK.

I'd be very interested in the same test, but leave each rifle in the mud overnight. Bet you the ak would do better than the AR.

>>35099642
I bet both would fail horribly

>>35099671
there have been accounts of people finding buried AK's from nam and they still work. Wonder how true they are

>>35099684
I dont doubt they worked - after cleaning them off

>>35096391
this literally proves fucking nothing except that /k/ is a bunch of cherry picking, elitist cunts. ANY gun will jam if you fucking dump mud into the receiver and barrel, all of you are fucking retarded

>>35099738
The AR-15 held up pretty well gettin dunked into the mud :^)

>>35099738
*laughs in cetme*

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>>35099786
CETME-C is life

>>35099786
>>35099808
CETME L is love

>>35096700
Because it's a fun gun and we like our AKs.

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Honestly, I never bought into the whole "AK IS INDESTRUCTIBLE MOTHER RUSSIA WILL RISE AGAIN" jackassery. I had that beaten out of me when my first ever AK (a shitty Lancaster from 2006) came from the factory defective.

That being said, the AK lends itself quite well to being unjammed if you have a little water to splash into the action and down the barrel in the event of a catastrophic intrusion of mud. The fact that it only has a couple large locking lugs lends itself well to this, not to mention being able to open the top cover and see everything you need to see to view/clear an obstruction.

On the other hand, the M16/AR-15 focuses far more readily on preventing mud or any other external debris from reaching the innards to begin with, simply because it's a thousand times more critical that it doesn't. If any filth gets into these 8 deep set locking lugs, you're never going to get it out unless you can fully break down the rifle and give it a thorough, detailed cleaning.

So overall, an AK makes it easy to unfuck if it gets fucked by mud, the AR makes it difficult to fuck with mud in the first place, because if it DOES get fucked by mud it will get very badly fucked. Case in point, the AR bee video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFg4n5FKRcY

And the follow up video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hZPZ7kuqa0

>>35099829
My CETME is a century but appears to be well made. Early version, no ground parts, nice barrel. Bolt gap was off so installed some oversized rollers but now she runs like a dream. Only spent $400 on it too

>>35100547
>Bolt gap

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>>35100810
He doesn't into HK rollers

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>>35096652
>Hey enemies? Can we have a time out I need to clean my gun.
Jesus anon
>>35096651
>ARs from the 60s are the same as modern ones with the same rounds and lack of cleaning kits.
Oh lordly my.

with all the Russians in this thread can we have a gentleman agreement to not start ww3. please?

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man too many people itt are getting ass mad about a fun video to watch. just goes to show that ak fags and fags in general get buttblasted over anything.

if russians are going to shitpost with "where is proofs", at least try to cover up your broken english and shitty grammar

It's been a while since I've watched inrange.
Does Karl look thinner?

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How can the other girls even compete?

>>35100810
>>35100896
What about what I said was wrong? The gap between the bolt head, and the carrier was out of spec. Remember it being around .05 and put +4s or 6's in and now its .18

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>>35097010
God, that is such a woman thing to do in a warzone.

>>35102140
He has been working out. He posted a video on it a while back.

>>35099051
I've actually gotten nothing but good advice from /arg/

Sorry they think your rifle is ugly, anon.

>>35096391
BTFOing AKfags is nice, but I really wish they'd do a SCAR 17S at some point.

>>35102333
Nothing. That guy doesn't know that you're supposed to check bolt gap on roller locked guns.

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>>35096391
WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO DO A REVOLVER

I WANT WHEELGUN FAGS TO GET BTFO

>>35103387
They haven't even done pistols yet, besides Luger and 1911. I want more.

>>35103404
They did a Glock, what more do you want?

>>35103387
You know full well that a revolver would work perfectly.
With the hammer down and the cylinder closed, it's a sealed system with no possibility of mud ingress.

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>>35103387
PISTOL FAGS BTFO
/watch?v=HVtebavUTJk
/watch?v=8-n5_Xuy1HY

>>35103420
>cylinder gap
>exposed chambers

are ian and karl roommates?

>>35103334
Thats what I was thinking, never heard of the bolt gap being called anything other than just that

Here we go again.

They have made the point that while the AK is not the legendary 'will never jam run no matter wat' rifle that the media makes it out to be, the weapon can literally be cleared after the test by dumping water through it. It will jam and misfire if mistreated, but it won't take much effort to set it right

With the AR, the system is made to allow for the weapon to have as little ways for dirt, crap and mud to get into the action. However, the platform requires constant and diligent maintenance to run properly, and if something gets into the action, it'll foul it up good

>>35099316
>my gun is literally inferior but fuck you you're wrong
go away stalker

>>35103671
>However, the platform requires constant and diligent maintenance to run properly, and if something gets into the action, it'll foul it up good

You could wash out an AR just as easily, and they don't need to be babied as you describe

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>>35097772
>The mud at Ft. Knox
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agwMwbmMNbk

>>35103736
Its like walking around in red super glue that gets everywhere, stains uniforms, and sticks to everything within 20 miles

>>35098363
what upper is that? I need that shit

>>35103688
When did I say you're wrong? The VZ isn't a particularly good gun, but I like it because it's fun, I'm not going to argue that it's going to outperform an AR or even an AK, I just enjoy shooting it.

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>seal action
>does nothing to win TOTAL WWIII
you're a simpleton if you can't grasp the design philosophy of the AK, and while even today decades after it collapsed these lol commieguns still cause havoc

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For a while I thought I wanted an AR, but the AK draws me in, as though it were seducing me.
Something about that rifle, just does it for me.

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STUNT MUD
>duh ak can survive ANYTHIN you throw at it
>you can bary it in mud... kick the chargin handle and it'll still worq
*buries it in mud*
*click*
>I DIDNT MEAN THAT KIND O MUD

stoner is in heaven laughing his ass off

>>35096615
This, you ARfags are delusional if you think the Valmet is anything but pseudo-chink produced garbage.

Literal every single AK made outside of Russia is going to be a piece of essentially nonfunctional garbage under durress, they just don't make them like they do in Russia anywhere else in the world.

>>35103643
Only on their trips.
Did I say "trips"? I meant romantic getaways.

>>35096798
This fucking sentence man. . .

>>35103945
>Russians only know how to make the ak!

Sure thing bud.

>35103732
Compared to an AK, an AR needs more maintenance, that's what I'm getting at

I was surprised both passed in the first dump, which the lever was up before the mud dumping. I just wondered if the new AK12 have solved the problem since I notice they ditch the lever style selector switch

>>35103945
I got to shoot a siaga and it had the very common issue where trying to chamber a round with the safety on causes a misfeed (usually it shouldn't strip a round at all)
>you shouldn't try to chamber a round with the safety on
Wow what a simple, totally not finicky, and easy to use platform
Clearly a gun with this feature is a mad mans dream

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>>35096579
>sharts pants
>falls in mud
>cannot part mud and shit
come guys really "it happens"

Im russian and always thought ak was more reliable. This video and m16 video open my eyes. Wow

I think I will always like ak more but m16 might be better gun. This not hard for me to admit, I did not design ak :)

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>>35103945
>Literal every single AK made outside of Russia is going to be a piece of essentially nonfunctional garbage under durress
That's correct. In (Soviet) Russia one could potentially face a firing squad for a box of a defective AKs supplied to military, figuratively speaking. Even now the quality control is very strict on military firearms.

>>35104150
>I got to shoot a siaga and it
...was most likely shit, yeah. Civilian guns are byproduct of KK's/VPO's main area of work (state orders) and there aren't many options to choose from for an average buyer on a Russian market (with the average salary in rural city is around $250 so even more quality Vepr is considered quite expensive gun costing $787 against $500 Saiga) so they don't really bother much and produce weapons with often garbage quality. It's not a design problem, it's a lack of free competitive market/firing squad problem.

>>35104647
Are you folks allow to own guns?

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>>35104904
Yes, as long as they're not automatic and longer than 80cm. Pistols are sort of allowed but you have to keep them at the range, so they're pointless unless you're a sportman.

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>>35104930
dats nice, sorry for your government's pistol policy

>>35104647
Well just because it didn’t pass a mud test doesn’t mean it won’t at everything. They’re not going to perform a full reliability test of water, dust, sustained fire, etc. So don’t take the results as incontrovertibly true for the whole rifle.

>>35104647
Both the AK and AR are good rifles. Both are accurate and reliable guns, good enough for military use. The AK doesn't need as much maintenance but isn't some mythical unstoppable force. The AR is more accurate, but only attains that mythic .1 MOA when used by a very skilled shooter, with modifications to the gun that would make it unsuitable for warfare.

Don't take these mudtests as anything more than the single data point they are.

>>35102319
AR fag on suicide watch

>>35104647
The takeaway from the video shouldn’t be the AK is unreliable in mud and therefore it’s inferior to the AR in every way. It should be that the AR and AK aren’t going to be 100% reliable in all conditions. Look down below.

M4 blows up after being submerged in water.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGwkHktkTxU
AK works fine after being submerged repeatedly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H52y8WH0Id0
M16 literally became ticking time cannon while Galil (AK design) keeps running.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvccUuJ0i-4
Rusty AK works after buried for 18 years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqL0dtIeTT8&t=59s

Point is you have to account all the factor before you jump to conclusions.

>>35100416
kek, AR fail bee test

so this is the tactical employment of bee

>>35105072
Not him, but I know you're Karl. I just wanted to say that InRange and Forgotten Weapons are literally the first things I've ever paid money for online.

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>>35105274
Kek what makes you think i'm Karl?

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>>35096766
My car runs on steam you fucking gaylord get out of here and go hug a spam can.

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>>35097180
>peened the bajeesus out of it

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>>35099019
I am literally none of those people, but you're still a retard even if you try to whip out the ol', "I was only pretending," line.

>>35105299
Let's do it this way:
How do you think I know you're Karl?

>>35096975
Fugg :D
Benis :DDD

>>35104787
>missing the point
Guess how many AR manufacturers do a pretty good job?
Guess what gun has a manual of arms conducive to simplicity of use?
I don't hate AKs I just think AK fags are delusional lairs

>>35096743
maybe bring a canteen?

This