Forget the US Navy

>>35096159
Without foreign intervention the PLAN would pretty much roll them.

>>35096159
Nippon stronk
fug u chink navy.
fite me with giant roboto if u can
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhn760VLCyc

>>35096159
Considering the legal limitations Japan faces from article 9 hamstringing their capabilities the Japanese would lose without help. Get rid of article 9 for a decade or so and then you have a much harder fight.

>>35096159

Japan has quite a few large advanced conventional submarines, while Chinese ASW away from their own littoral waters isn't exactly comprehensive yet. That point alone would make PLAN operations near the Japanese home islands risky.

>>35096298
So neither side could actually penetrate the opposing littoral waters?

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>>35096329
>>35096159
Yeah, but taking on JMSDF (even alone) would be costly. Nips have capable (although not strong enough) fleet which would hit chinks hard enough to make their losses significant, but so small compared to chinks that JMSDF would be eventually beaten PLAN. Also, they lack blessed weapons (but i guess chinks too, so its a draw).

>>35096416
*beaten BY PLAN.

>>35096416
This tbqh. Japs punch far above their weight, but china is 2 weight categories above them.

>>35096159

Unlikely as Japan plans around not having to fight China solo, but as a coalition between other western aligned or western nations.

>>35096159

3rd Nuke

>>35096159
>Ban Japanese from building battleships.
They build carriers instead and get ahead of the rest of the world for years.
>Okay, battleships were stupid anyway. Don't you dare build any carriers!
Japan once again does its own thing.
I wonder what's gonna happen.jpg

I'd say it could go both ways.
Both countries have gigantic and modernized navies.
Both countries have the industrial capacity to churn them out to hallelujah if needs be.

>>35096159
As a weeb, yes. The problem is that the Japs are super insane. Sure, they could never take the Chinks solo. But they could hold them off long enough for the USN to show up.

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>>35096192
>allow Japan to build military again.
>beat of the raising sun plays

I want this just to make China mad. But I don't know if Japan would be loyal to the US.

>>35096159
Solo without help?
Comparing their Navy alone?
I say draw. Japan have the experience but very lack of mansource and hardware. and vice versa.

>>35096159
No. Because of the US Navy.

>>35096969
Explain the sparrow please.

>>35097456
Communists killing humanity in novel ways.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Pests_Campaign

https://youtu.be/dWGnf-DxZp0
Thread theme

>>35096969
didnt really survive the genocide.

China imported sparrows from Russia afterwards.

>>35096159
you are kidding right?
chinese army in general in a few years will roll pretty much everyone in the world
https://www.defense.gov/Portals/1/Documents/pubs/2016%20China%20Military%20Power%20Report.pdf

not even muricans will be able to top them if the chinese decide to start an arm race

japan has gone to war with china dozens of times in its history and has not won even once

>>35098945
Or, you know, we could just stop trade and watch their government collapse in 6 months.

>>35098962
>Or, you know, we could just stop trade and watch the world collapse in 6 months.

even if it were total war the west would still probably buy chink consumer goods and china would still import food from the americas and europe/russia

>>35098962
yeah stop trading the country that pretty much control the most important trade route in the planet

seems like a very good idea
why you think greece and china became superpower in the ancient world? because they were cool?

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>>35097456
>Mao thinks sparrows are pests
>declares war on sparrow
>every able bodied chink kills sparrows for Mao
>sparrows.actually critical to environmental stability
>environemnt collapses
>food chain collapses
>famine
>millions starve
>they didnt even succeed in wiping out the sparrow
Communism, not even once.

>>35098945
>China
>War
Lol
Implying any general want their only one son that supposed to become their family head and also their successor died.
Thanks to MAO for One Child Policy.
Lol

>>35098983
>>35098979
It wouldn't come down to that. The US would just hook them into a second opium conflict (or it's equavilent) and buttfuck the Chinese back into the early 1900's.

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>>35098956
>what is the first Sino-Japanese War

>>35099032
oh yeah because surely this will work now
holy fuck i love when i see posts that pretty much claims "murica will have a field day" every time

no discussion no debate no nothing

america tried to fuck russia in the caspian basin they got fucked up really hard
america tried to control the SCE via thailand and south korea china started to built up islands and install missiles

this isnt imperial china this is a capitalist china masked with communism they own 1.3 trillion of debt that alone is enough to keep usa at bay

>>35098945
China has zero experiance in actually fighting a war, nor does it have the logistical capability to fight a war away from their own borders.

Take every mistake the US and various euro militaries have made in the last fifty years and magnify them tenfold.

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>>35096969
>Surviving sparrows flee to Polish embassy away from all the chink drum bangers
>Poland ambassadors don't allow chinks in to bang their drums and scare the birds to exhaustion
>chinks just gathered in thousands around the embassy to bang drums to kill the birds anyway
>Poles literally need shovels to clean up all the dead birds

>>35099000
amazing. but then again, didnt the uk do something similar with some bird or type of weasel or some shit? and the us almost hunted bison to extinction. its hardly unique to china to fuck up ecosystems by being twits

>Mao thinks sparrows are pests
is there a reason why this is the case? I know in the west a lot of people hate crows for no reason even though theyre pretty docile and dont tend to attack things larger than them

>>35099089
do they even have to go outside of their border? LOL
america is literally bringing the war to their doorstep why you think trump is going hot on NK? to save the world? this is probably the last chance usa has to achieve a better status quo before china actually get bigger and perfect their space launches which i bet my ass virginity it will be the start of an arms race

>>35099105
Bison didn't keep an entire agricultural system from collapsing. Sparrows ate bugs who would otherwise eat crops.

>>35099111
How many bushels of rice do you get for each of these posts?

>>35099089
see >>35098956

also
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China

>>35099111
china is more interested in bullying its neighbors than in waving dicks with the west

the east and west are so dependent on eachother for trade that all-out war would be retarded, but the west doesnt really give a shit about Property Of China nor does china care about tromping around the middle east or eastern europe

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>>35099129
m8 are you seriously saying that china is the only country to ever fuck up an ecosystem

>>35099135
So that would be no, they do not have any experience fighting a war, since 1979.

>>35099143
No, I am saying his examples were shit and he should try again.

>>35099129
i dont know how many lies is the DoD selling to congress for it?
>>35098945
unless we invalidate hard data coming from usa now
but hey selling propaganda is easy
providing ACTUAL facts its a bit tricky when it comes to usa claims

>>35099147
sorry im not a literal ecologist with a big book of histories of Times Countries Fucked Up The Crops By Shooting The Wrong Animal but i assure you bro that it has happened in more countries than china, for pretty much the same reason (This thing is a pest! Shoot it!! Shoot them all!!!)

>>35096159
Chinks have like 5x more modern major surface combatants than the Nips.

>>35099147
>they do not have any experience fighting a war, since 1979.
Does anyone else? All the US has done is stomp around in the middle east ineffectually for the past like 40 years and has accomplished literally nothing in that time.

And when's the last war the JSDF were involved in? Has there even been one?

>>35099021
Generals dont send their kids to the army. They send them to MIT to study random advanced science to lead a numbered research institute with 100+ billion $ budget.

It's a conscription army, but they have like 20 times more young men than they need so they're very picky.

>>35099190
>It's a conscription army, but they have like 20 times more young men than they need so they're very picky.
no its a PARTY army there is a big difference
the pla doesnt answer to the country but the political party

>>35099021
>One Child Policy.
you can have more than one kid, you just get taxed a shitload. it's not like they force abortions or some dumb shit

>>35099194
When was the last time the US military ansered to a popular referendum as opposed to the ruling party?

>>35099207
america uses propaganda the last ship series is literally this
china doesnt really care

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30 aircraft carriers not fucking 5 helicopter carriers tf is wrong with you the JSDF and Chinese navy are shit.,

Isn't the US working with Japan on an F-35 VTOL that can land on their shitty carriers?

>>35099070
>muh debt
>muh China stronk
>muh PLA
China is and has been a joke. Their military is shit, their country is shit, any industrial capacity and the "China" you see in publication extends from the coast 150 miles inland. That's it. Sustained air and sea bombardment will send them to the stone age. Their army is land locked. Any transports would be sunk. Their neighbours would stab them to death the moment they got engaged from another power. You ever heard someone from Vietnam's opinion on China? All the SE asian nations hate their ass. Tibet would probably revolt. The Uyghurs would revolt and declare an independent Islamic state and yes, the US would fund any rebel group while ass stomping the Chinese. For every man we kill, that would be a family without an heir. They can't replace that. Their people would go apeshit once the death count began to rise.

You're right, it's not imperial China, it's "communist" China. Hobbled by decades of mismanagement, corruption, and foolishness.

>>35099021
Mao was dead long before the one child policy

>>35098945
China can't cross water.
JMSDF has tested hardware and much better manning, very little corruption there.

>>35098983
Dream on, chong.

>>35099704
>>35099714
again please try and read a bit
https://www.defense.gov/Portals/1/Documents/pubs/2016%20China%20Military%20Power%20Report.pdf
its not hard to read a congressional report about the capabilities of china
you will be suprised of how shit you keep spewing that has nothing todo with todays reality

>>35099143
I am, asshole. Give me any other examples where attemptimg to eliminate a species caused problems.
Don't even try with introductions of non-native species.

JMSDF is actually pretty good. They would also have air power support from the JASDF. All Japan has to do is keep the PLAN out of Japanese territory. Which they can do with the support of their own ports and air fields. China on the other hand has one very green carrier task force and air wing to work with, and a bunch of Cold War era long range air strike power. Japan also has the benefit of training with the USA. So half a century of US operations experience will be partially imparted on the Japanese. While China hasn't had a serious conflict since they got embarrassed by Vietnam in 1979.

>>35099749
Don't they have less sealift than the fucking bongs? It'd be pretty difficult to invade Japan with four LPDs

>>35099749
The linked document refutes nothing I posted.

>>35099778
yes because i bet you read it already

oh wait i forgot this is /k/ even american official documents are not trustworthy only good ol murican propaganda

>>35099143
it's not often you find an example where they did it to the extent that it caused a locust plague of biblical proportions that lead to the deaths of millions of 25 - 40 MILLION of their own people

>>35099775
they don't need to invade Japan. nor would the really want to. the conflict would be about them inflicting sufficient damage to Japan. to make the japanese government give in to china's political will.

>>35099821
and modern eastern chinese cities look like fucking Mordor with the smog.

>>35099874
http://inhabitat.com/chinas-crazy-smog-sucking-vacuum-tower-is-actually-working/

>>35096969
Even without article 9 holding them back I just don't see Japan turning their back on the US for whatever reason. When you've got the biggest scariest guy around ready to back you up against almost anyone else in the region you don't throw that away. China might actually try against a post article 9 Japan alone, but not while the US is standing behind it. Being pals with the US is a massive deterant even if you're strong on your own.

>>35096192
Japan has world's top 10 defense budget.

>>35101045
Article 9 of their constitution greatly limits their capabilities. They can have a big budget but as long as they have article 9 they are limited on what they can do with that budget.

>>35101130
>They can have a big budget but as long as they have article 9 they are limited on what they can do with that budget.
They are not limited in defending their country, which is what this thread is about.

>>35101229
gotta love washdown systems

>>35101260
Are the washdowns done to remove salt build up?

Can F-35s operating out of Okinawa target Chinese ports?

>>35101292
Nope. They're there to prevent nuclear contamination. During Op Crossroad, it was found that several ships were contaminated to the point of being unsafe to operate despite being structurally fine. One of which was the Prinz Eugen. The washdown system is intended to flood the surfaces of the ship before the nuke goes off and to keep it wet as the fallout falls, so it just falls off leaving the ship unaffected. The high capacity washdown systems use saltwater IIRC so they'd be useless at washing off salt.

>>35101316
Rumors are that the Soryu II class soon to enter production will be the first subs to use Lithium Ion batteries instead of Lead Acid ones.

>>35096329
yep, China has shit force projection capabilites beyond their littoral waters, and JMSDF is n where near strong enough to penetrate China's littoral waters. Thus this becomes a fight where neither can really beat the other. All of this assumes no retarded mistakes. Given China's history of naval combat (losing every time, despite having more and better ships), I'd say Japan's fishing fleet could probably beat the PLAN.

>>35096969
Laozi > Confucius

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>>35101329
Thanks for the info. :)

>>35101468
Thanks for the pics!

>>35101477
Nice. Note the countermeasure launcher below the 4th guy from the left.

I'd say they could prevent China from landing. China has many more planes but fewer modern ones, the same goes for ships. Japan has smaller ground forces but they have enough to defend the shore. The Chinese couldn't land and hold ground before Japan starts buying and deploying way more planes and from the US than China could build or buy from Russia.

Without access to the US market I'd say Japan loses in about a year.

Japan is probably the Paranuclear state closest to having a serious nuclear arsenal in short time.

Any conflict that doesn't result in humiliating lose for Japan. Just means they scrap article 9 and build a nuclear deterrence. With in a year they could have ballistic missiles with global reach, and thermonuclear warheads. In 2 years they would have ballistic missile submarines and SLBMs.

>>35099165
Surface combatants are relevant only in their ability to provide support to maritime aircraft. Otherwise they are just targets for submarines and aircraft.

>>35102018
>Any conflict that doesn't result in humiliating lose for Japan. Just means they scrap article 9 and build a nuclear deterrence. With in a year they could have ballistic missiles with global reach, and thermonuclear warheads. In 2 years they would have ballistic missile submarines and SLBMs.

That's assuming they get past their own people first.

With the Fukushima event still fresh, nukes aren't politically feasible for the next decade or so.

>>35102142
you underestimate japan's nationalism, xenophobia, and desire to fuck the chinese.

I was stationed in Japan during some of Obama's years. The Japanese increasily felt that Obama was making America into an unreliable ally. that they need to do more for their own defense.

>>35099775
They do. Hence why it is hilariously impossible for them to even take Taiwan, unless they conscript civilian ships. Thus the idea of China being able to land a military force capable of conquering even one of the Japanese home islands, is completely ludicrous.

>>35101573
There is no way for China to control Japans Eastern seaboard. They cannot even reliably sail there, much less station sufficient ships to stop US trade. Plus, once China begins attacking US merchant ships, the USN fucks the PLAN back to the stoneage.

>>35102052
this isn't entirely true, but western surface combatants are designed this way, and since China's build up has largely been ripping off the USN, its reasonable to expect China's surface combatants, to really be bodyguards for aircraft carriers.

>>35102450
I can't imagine them feeling anymore secure about our reliability with the latest administration after all the "pay for your own shit" talk.

>>35099040
You mean second. Because the Nips lost the first.

>>35101401
Go back to special ed.

>>35101401
>Given China's history of naval combat (losing every time, despite having more and better ships)
More maybe but when have they ever had better ships?

>>35102989
umm, conquering Korea and expelling the Chinese army there, thus establishing the states which have gone on to almost start a world war and nuclear war doesn't count as a victory? If Japan lost, and China Lost korea, does that mean the victor of the first sino-japanese war in your opinion was the Koreans?

>>35099799
The document dies not support your position. Stop shitposting

>>35103079
first sino-japanese war, their war junks were far superior to the Japanese vessels. Faster, longer range guns, more guns, more armor, yet because of utterly incompetent planning, they got slaughtered.

>>35102824
all that has been directed at NATO.

Japan pays a small fortune to provide the US with bases and staff.

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>>35103151
>Japan pays a small fortune to provide the US with bases and staff.
Everyone knows this but Trump still demanded they pay more.

>"We defend Japan. We defend Germany. We defend South Korea. We defend Saudi Arabia. We defend countries. They do not pay us what they should be paying us because we are providing a tremendous service and we're losing a fortune," Trump said during the first presidential debate.

Lately it's probably even worse for SK, which basically feels like America is ready to throw down with the Norks with no regard for how much this will fuck up their country. Doesn't help that dipshits like Lindsey Graham seem to give zero fucks.

>“If there’s going to be a war to stop him, it will be over there,” Graham continued. “If thousands die, they’re going to die over there. They’re not going to die over here.”

Yeah I'm sure that makes our allies feel a whole lot better.

>>35096159
>two of the most incompetent navies fighting each other

Neither would win on account of each being absolute shit

>>35103296
Its true though, our citizens come first.

>>35103698
No shit, but don't expect anyone else to want to fight for us when we actually say "We're okay with you guys dying." That has a way of making allies realize you don't have their interests in mind.

>>35103740
America is strong enough on its own to not need allies if it comes to it though.

>>35103296
Honestly, even though Graham is a traitor of titanic proportions and deserves to be hung, this is one thing we can agree on. If it's gonna go down, we have to do everything we can to keep it away from the homeland.

>>35099200
I think they actually do on Tibetians as uygurs

>>35099347
Listen here you shit eating Mudslime, any revolt buy urgyurs result in their genocide.
FUCK
ALL
MUSLIMS

>>35099105
Mao's rational was literally
>Damn Sparrows are eating grain.
>Guess they are pests too!

>>35101573
That's not right, PLAAF has as many 4th gen fighters as the JSDAF has fixed wing aircraft

>>35096159

>a fucking ramp

It's clear which gook wins.

>>35103136
>war junks
you're fucking retarded. Look up the BeiYang fleet ORBAT in the 1890s.

>>35099347
>blah blah blah CHINA A SHIT
incessant whinings of a fucking imbecile as the PRC catapults itself into regional dominance in 40 years.

Retards gonna retard, I guess.

>>35103749
>America is strong enough on its own to not need allies
really? Without foreign bases? I think you underestimate the true logistical needs of a full conventional war between peer powers.

>>35103876
The one with the carrier that can launch fixed wing aircraft?

>>35103692
>two of the most incompetent navies fighting each other
>t- a retard.

JMSDF ASW is world fucking class. And when is the last time a Kongo or Atago got #REKT by a container ship?

As far as the PLAN goes, they have the advantage of having their equipment built at the current tech cycle.

>>35103086
>thus establishing the states which have gone on to almost start a world war and nuclear war doesn't count as a victory
are you seriously giving Japan credit for DPRK's nuclear program?

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>>35103967
>Implying Hyuuga-class cannot launch F-35B.

>>35096166
lol

>>35103950
So no argument? You have nothing?

Remember when India was supposed to be a super power by 2020? Here we are, less than 30 months away... they're shitting in streets with a cobbled together military that has zero logistics. China is literally a step above THAT.

>>35099105
>I know in the west a lot of people hate crows for no reason even though theyre pretty docile and dont tend to attack things larger than them

So let me tell you some stories about murders. Crows will gather into large groups and harass anything they don't like. Some crows got a bad taste for people and have gathered murders that just bully the shit out of people. Dropping shit, stealing shit, shorting on people, dive bombing, etc. Most of this comes from how aggressive the crow is and from ill interactions with people when crows steal from them. Crows will open bags to acess food, they will steal jewelry, they will get into anything that they think they want. They are so aggressive, they will drive eagles and other large birds to the ground and kill them given the chance. They will drive out any competing foragers in their area. Fuck crows you filthy crow loving shill, I've seen entirely too many posts defending those faggots and I've had about enough.

>>35098983

The USA can control any trade route it wants. If it came to total war, just who do you think would be running the south china sea? China? HAHAHA. They'd be lucky to control traffic down the Yangtze.

But good bantz' chang, here's 2 yuan for your trouble ;)

>>35099347
/thread

>>35103950
yeah just like how Japan is literally leading the world like everyone thought they would in the 80s.

>>35104179
yeah? And guess what? Japan's still a fucking power house. Number 3 in global GDP.

>>35104126
>So no argument?
Argument? The only thing that pile of shit deserves is a fucking kick to the face, and so do you, for your rampant stupidity.

>>35104287
yeah, its a major power, but its not ruling the world. Same with India, and the same with China. Eventually the same will happen with Vietnam and maybe Nigeria.

>>35104020
In the same way a tennis court could launch a f35B

>>35104132
I got a hight powered blue laser to fuck with crows.
Can harass what they can't see with burnt out retinas

>>35104179
Japan doesn't have the population to rule the world. On the other hand China can have half the GDP per capita of the US and still have an economy twice the size.

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>>35104359
still have an economy twice the size, eh?

>>35103775
See
>>35103740

>>35104356
If you've got chill crows, keep them chill. Ive had a couple crow bros but most of them are counts and deserve to have their retinas seared like ahi tuna steaks.

>>35104600
*cunts

>>35104528
are you fucking illiterate or just stupid?

Seriously, answer the question.

>>35104158
thats why they lost caspian basin?
thats why they lost south china sea?
sure lol
usa cant compete with countries that has even remotely decent army you know thus why so far they havent they wont open a war with china or russia or any other country that can have a hint to even remotely hit them

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China hands down.

PLAAF fighter superiority will achieve air dominance.
PLAN surface and subsurface fleet will pick up the rest.

Japan will lose the naval war through incessant Chinese aerial bombing just like in WWII, as China's air dominance will result in them lobbing YJ-12s and Kalibrs at the JMSDF with impunity.

Seriously, China's air power is so much more better than Japan's (whose best mainstay fighter are F-15A level 30 years old Eagles that regularly break down due to age), that China will easily recreate the USN's WWII Pacific War victories against them all day every day.
450+ Flankers, 400+ J-10, 250+ JH-7A naval bombers, first batch of 20+ J-20... These numbers are the death kneel for Japan.


Also, ASBM will fuck the Japanese ships from afar. The few SM-3s and ABM capable ships will be of very little use. They will end up like the Yamato, unable to be sent into battle because they are capital ships that are of vital importance to homeland missile defense against North Korea. In the end, the Kongos and Atagos will end just like the Yamato

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Also, Chinese anti ship missiles >>> Japan's anti ship missiles.

Yeah, even the XASM-3, which is just comparable with the 30 years old Kh-31A.

>>35105474
How are they better?

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>>35105488
Japan's mainstay surface combattant missile is a Harpoon derivate and they have none other. China's mainstay missile is a Kalibr class long range missile.

Air launched missile wise, it is basically the same, with China having long range supersonics compared to Japan's Harpoons and soon short range supersonics.

Japan operates Burke copies.

And we have seen that Burke copies are weak against tankers and civilian ships.

All China need to do is to make a call to based Duterte and his flip seamen will sink the entire JMSDF the next day.

I enjoy how the flag-less China-poster thinks that federal documents on US vs China are pro-USN. It shows an ignorance of American affairs I find quaint.
In actual America, any paper that might end up in front of congressman states that the PLA IS HUGE AND SCARY and THE US WILL LOSE* (*with current technology/manning/hull#'s). The American military-industrial complex doesn't fund itself by being unassailable. They exaggerate threats, especially through crypto-lobbying "studies" like have been posted, to keep their stock price up. Nobody gets paid to talk up US military capabilities vis a vi China so nobody does except nationalists/fanboys.

>>35106050
In the same vein though, it really does no one any favors to underestimate a threat, especially when we don't know the full extent of its capabilities or even its actual defense budget. Even Russia could still fuck us up asymmetrically and that's before even bringing nukes into it. All the national defense articles about how our weapons are far more sophisticated will mean exactly dogshit if 20yo missiles and diesel subs still get the job done.

>>35096159
Japs would probably lose but not before they turn the Sea of Japan into a giant artificial reef of Chink ships

>>35099207
US military isnt conscipted. They are government employees.

>>35106191
Chinese military also isn't conscripted. They've actually had to downsize because they already have too many volunteers.

>>35098962

China's foreign currency reserves dwarf that of the US.

>>35106239
foreign reserve doesnt do shit if nobody spend them.
the world at large love to trade with the US. They have many competitive advantage compared to the US. Labors in the 3rd world, quality goods and services in the 1st world. Compared to China, they have none, attempts at penetrating the Chinese market will be met with unscaleable protetionist wall as well.

There's a lot of half baked theories in this thread so I looked up the numbers:

China:

Subs
18 nuclear attack, 10 nuclear ballistic, 18 diesel anti ship cruise missile, 42 diesel attack

Ships
40 modern destroyers, 27 modern frigates, 22 old frigates, 35 modern corvettes, 1 carrier with one on the way

Planes
570 modern fighers, 500 old Soviet ones, 120 bombers, 2 AWACS, 3 EW, about 50 J-20s on the way

Japan:

17 diesel attack subs

Ships
36 destroyers, 4 helicopter carriers

Planes
62 F-16s, 155 F-15s, 71 F-4s, 43 F-35s on the way, 2 AWACS, 2 EW

Since it would be Japan on the defensive I looked up their SAM numbers:

FIM-92A Stinger (80)
Type 81 Short-Range Surface-to-Air Missile (57)
Type 91 Portable Surface-to-Air Missile (210)
Type 93 Short-Range Surface-to-Air Missile (90)
Type 03 Medium-Range Surface-to-Air Missile
Type 11 Short-Range Surface-to-Air Missile (14)

They also have 54 "Type 88" surface-to-ship and are starting to roll out the modernized T12.

So assuming China could build the boats to do it, could Japan prevent them from landing on the home islands long enough to negotiate peace?

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>>35097456
lol

>>35104356
Now you have blind and angry crows. Fucking thanks, man.

>>35106232
Isn't it a bit funny that the countries with the most armed and capable citizenship happen to be on the right side of the charts, while countries with a population relying on blind patriotism happen to be on the left?

>>35106554
You know what blind angry crows do?
They fly around in circles until they either smash into something or drop from exhaustion.

>>35106576
The ones on the left don't have anything else left.
The ones on the right couldn't give less of a rat's ass who is going to be the person fucking up their life from the presidential seat and choose to rather watch their porn in peace.

>>35099273
man fuck that level. the aigaion looked cool though

>>35106200
China has the draft, technically. they just don't have a need to actively draft.

>>35106652
Ain't that the truth?
I'd personally would fight more for my right to meme and to jack off.

>t. Flipfag

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privyet

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>>35096159
J-10B/C would probably rekt the F-2s and F-15Js.

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>>35106802
What does comrade sock-puppet say about China's newest long-range AAM, the PL-15, as used by the J-10B/C series, as well as the J-16?

It would be superior in range to the AAM-4B, and equivalent in seeker generation (both AESA seekers)

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>>35106809
The J-16 Strike Flanker with PL-15 and PL-10 combo.

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>>35106812
And the J-16 with the still undesignated PL-XX air-launched ballistic AWACS killer missile.

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> lul chink a shit can't even make a door
Have any of you CIA shills been paying attention at all?
The PLAN has 85 major surface combatants, soon 2 full size carriers, 8 SSNs, 55 SSKs (fifty fucking five), 5SSBNs and another 200 smaller surface combatants.
About 30% of these were put to sea in the last 10 years, with some preparation an expeditionary force could be formed with a major qualitative and quantitative advantage over the JSDF.
With carriers and subs the PLAN could totally isolate the Japanese economy. Why do you think the US physically bases troops there. The PLAN/AF is more than substantial enough to credibly blackmail or exert control over the whole region if the other local powers were divided.
It's also an island nation. Why do you think the nips (and the bongs on the other side) are so autistic about ASW? They know that if they are facing a large sub force it's an existential threat.

>>35106827
>2 full size STOBAR carriers
You left out the "STOBAR" part ivan, as in "inherently inferior to CATOBAR", but don't worry i got you.

>>35098945
china wants to crush america and they have the numbers

>>35106827
How would PLAN isolate the Japanese economy when the US and western powers would supply them? Will China declare unrestricted submarine warfare like Germany and sink boats flying American flags? Because that usually ends some so well.

>>35098945
>not even muricans will be able to top them if the chinese decide to start an arm race
The debt we carry would make it even harder.

>>35101468
>US flag next to Imperial Japanese flag
this is some alt-future shit I can get behind
nice

>>35098945
You underestimate our hickory

We'll mass produce tactical nukes and put them on drones before we'd ever fall to the Chicoms

>>35113832
by that time they will probably create dragons

>>35108825
>implying Japan even has STOBARs, let alone CATOBARs

>>35096416
Oh noes here comes 2nd Battle of Tsushima (Operation Togo).

>>35113448

They kept as flag of the japanese navy.

>>35113448
>>35114835
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_Flag
That flag is always the Flag of Japanese Imperial Army and Navy. Never as the flag of Empire of Japan.

>>35096159

The so-called "White Base" and Project V could destroy the PLAN singlehandedly.

>>35096192

The only thing stopping America from letting them be a world power again is a faction of Japanese politicians who are scared of nationalism and Based Abe isn't among them.

I come to these threads for PLAN tears and I am never disappointed.

Get fucked Chinks, America will defend anime.

>>35099070

That debt is only worth something when the US chooses to honor it. Guess what we won't do in wartime?

>muh artificial islands

Trump will build resorts on them, he already has aircraft carriers routinely drive close enough to splash them with American spray just to prove what we all know. China is a paper tiger. The only thing it has EVER had is numbers and it's facing an incoming population crisis. Either they act now, which they won't, or America will permanently add them to the sphere of countries domesticated by America. Seriously though, good luck thinking even the Chinks are stupid enough to fight the most powerful navy that has ever existed with what they have.

>>35099070
> they own 1.3 trillion of debt that alone is enough to keep usa at bay
You don't really understand how debt works outside of the consumer context.
US "debt" to China isn't like borrowing from a bank, it means US has sold bonds at lower than market interest rate to China.
Countries that have strong needs to cozy up to the US, such as China or Saudi Arabia, buy a lot of US debt. It's basically aid to the US from those countries.

>>35099749

You realize that document not only refutes nothing but is written to make China sound threatening so congress has an excuse to continue feeding America's gigantic military-industrial complex, right? Cui bono, motherfucker.

>>35096183
>glorious RX-78 was replaced by shitty unicorn that can't even do the transformation properly

>>35103296

Trump and his family are tremendously popular in Japan, and he's even held Japan up as an example of doing it right when they showed willingness to handle more of their own defense.

>>35103876

It's not a ramp, it's a slant.

>>35115096
>Trump
>popular in Japan
>first thing they pulled was announcing a free trade deal with Europe

>>35104528
You didnt read what he said did you ?

>>35115107
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbM6WbUw7Bs

>>35115115
Most of the USA! posters are ESL.

>>35106809
>>35106805
>>35106812
>>35106820


Airsoft belongs on /toy/

>>35110515

Not on the fucking water they don't Chinfu.

>>35115013

This, that's the real gamechanger.

>>35115115
>>35115123

Responding to yourself is rude Guan.

>>35115072

They replaced it? Fuck, that's sad.

Donald Trump will personally execute every Chinese general with a nihonto.

>>35115066
who would have knew that china is being used to scaremongering
its not like when they used the soviets as such they were a serious enemy right? right?

LOL

love when i see posts like this reminds me or the delusion that exist in this rock all the superpower from greece to china to romans to the muricans they all started to fall apart when their own delusion reached the sky but as always no one learns from history

>>35115152

America could conquer China in a week.

>>35115185
Maybe the various Chinatowns in the USA.

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>>35099347
>china is a joke
Worlds third largest economy by gdp 7% gdp growth in 2017. Many analysts predict it to surpass the US. Is a global manufacturing base.
>dude its only 150 miles inland
America is a fucking joke past 150 miles inland as well, you have the phrase flyover to fucking represent it.

So either you are an idiot or every other relevant individual is, no prizes for guessing correctly.

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>>35104158
(You): DW GUYS WE CONTROL THIS TRADE ROUTE HAHAH AMERICA FCK YE
Chinese: Yeah but that doesnt mean we actually send our stuff to you or vice versa so what is your point?
(You):GOTEM, FREEEDOM

>>35099070
> they own 1.3 trillion of debt that alone is enough to keep usa at bay

When you owe the bank a million dollars, you have a problem. When you owe the bank a trillion dollars, the bank has a problem.

>>35099105
Uh, some crazy lord invented Myxamatosis and wiped out the UK's rabbit population. (Vague approximation of that event.

>>35104132
They only do that to people who fuck with them. Crows have theory of mind, dipshit. If you want to hate a bird, choose geese you worthless nigger.

>>35105474
How many AShMs does China need to sink Japan's fuckhuge aircraft carrier?

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>>35105561
You don't compare missiles to missiles. You compare missiles to targets. Japan has Harpoons because the PLAN rates Harpoons.

>>35115418
PLAN rates Harpoons

what?

>>35115436
You heard me. If Japan needed something better than Harpoons, they'd have something better than Harpoons.

>>35115493
Like the XASM-3?

We'd pull a bunch of first-gen Aegis destroyers and cruisers out of mothballs and give them to the Japs. It'd be The Rape of Nanking II.

>>35115788
>Japan stuck with inferior ships now

Thank you guys

>>35115521
rekt

>>35115798

"Inferior" to Chang's floating Styrofoam and paper maiche shitcanoes? Doubtful.

>China can now 1v1 any ship in the US Navy with the Renhais
>lol can they beat Japan??

>>35099021
Chairman Mao's sent his oldest son to fight in Korea, where he was killed in action.

>>35099200
One child policy has been officially abolished.

>>35108825
Congratulations on your irrelevant dickwaving. (You) me when Japan or China puts a CATOBAR to sea, or the OPs question changes.

>>35115521
Only 150km range at most.

PL-15 will outrange them, and so does the HHQ-9B naval SAM.

China would shoot down the F-2s carrying the XASM-3 before they can even get into range to launch.

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>>35115813
Which ships regularily get toasted by tankers?

Not the Chinese ships, last time I checked.

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>>35098945

I keep up with the PLA a little bit and even then I recognize it will take a few decades to catch up not years.

>>35106232
>Sweden 55%
What?

>>35115205
What is the great lakes industrial region? Sure, the outsourcing of jobs hurt the area, but there is still industry capable of being expanded if need be there. Not to mention the East Coast is too far away for China to even think of projecting their power there, whereas the other side of China is filled with discontent citizens and no significant industry or even agriculture.

>>35116122
to be fair, you have to leave go past 10km of your own shorline for it to count as a navy

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>>35116206
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/19/royal-navy-scrambles-shadow-chinese-warships-english-channel/

>Royal Navy scrambles to shadow Chinese warships in English Channel as they head to Baltics for first war games with Russia

We are past the beginning of Chinese Century.

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>>35116182
Numbers wise you might be correct. It would take them a decade to build up the numbers of warships and fighter planes comparable to the US, if they ever had the goal to begin with.

But in the realm of key technological capabilities, they are just a few years behind in fields that would give them massively new tactical and strategic options that they didnt have a few years before and which puts them on par with the US.

A few examples:

- Recent discoveries of massive rhenium deposits in central China, as well as breakthroughs in super-alloy research would provide them reliable high-performance engine compressor blades, which would solve their long-time weaknesses. Even now, a large number of Chinese fighter jets are using indigenous engines which provides critical data and experience that drives engine maturity

- In the same vein, indigenous shipborne gas-turbines (CQ-280) have reached maturity as well, which explains China's massive naval buildup since this bottleneck is removed.

- recent mass-introduction of long range AAMs (PL-15) evens out the playing field in air-power, giving even early Chinese 4th gen figthers a fighting chance against the advanced 4th gen jets deployed by it srivals.

- massive profiliation of AESA radars for Chinese fighter jets. Pretty much every Chinese 4th gen fighter recently introduced is equipped with AESA radars (J-10B/C, J-16 etc.). Same with their newer warships.

-

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>>35116491
Moreover;

- Hypersonic glide weapons (like DF-ZF/WU-14) gives them additional strategic deterrence that complicates ABM.

- JL-3 SLBM is being developed, which would give China a secured second strike capability against the US, even when restricted in their home-waters. Same with new generations of road-mobile ICBMs like DF-31AG and DF-41.

- Chinese directed energy weapon and railgun research is progressing, which would level out the playing field once ready and leave China just one or two years behind the US in terms of application of such systems.

- China's first stealth bomber H-20 will fly soon, which would make China the second country to have B-2 level strategic bombers.

- In the realm of unmanned systems, China is pretty near parity with the US in terms of technological capability.

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>>35116502
And dont forget the biggest superweapon yet - sexy military concubines, one for every enemy generals quarters.

>>35110515
>they have the numbers
They don't have the technology or logistical capacity to wage war against us. And are you really implying infantry is effective in modern combat? What is the king of the battlefield?

>>35116122
>regularly

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The evolution of China's premiere surface combattants:

DDG 052C (2003)
DDG 052D (2012)
CG 055 (2017)

>>35115185
so america will conquer a country literally 4 times bigger
the chinese can pee on the pacific and they will blame the global warming that california will be under water

>>35117243
It is honestly amazing how powerful China is.

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>>35117243
Displacements, sensors and weaponry advanced along the way:

6,500 tons, 1st gen AESA (GaA) radar, 48 VLS for HHQ-9 SAM only
7,500 tons, 2nd gen AESA (GaA) radar, 64 Universal VLS, for all weapons
12,000 tons, 3rd gen AESA (GaN) radar, 128 Universal VLS, for all weapons

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>>35117267
Signature reduction of the hull design also improved along the way.

The ships were getting ever more flush.

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>>35117274
CIWS weapons also improved along the way;

052C still had two Type 730 seven barrelled gatling CIWS (Goalkeeper equivalent)
052D has one Type 730 and one 24-cell HHQ-10 point defense missile system (PDMS)
055 has one Type 1130 evelen-barrel CIWS and a HHQ-10 PDMS

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>>35117292
The VLS blocks in comparisson.

>>35116341
love how they stopped sending type 45 to escort
each time that shit gets out of port it brakes down
talking about "superior technology"

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>>35117295
And the future of the 055 promises a more integrated and signature reduced design.

Pic shows the integrated superstructure for the future Type 055A.

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>>35117315
Which would be a Zumwalt-styled stealthy warship.

>>35117322
>Zumwalt
the f35 of the ship industry
literally a meme

>>35117292
>>35117295
The size difference of the main AESAs for the subsequent classes is ridiculous.

It seems to be a quarter larger.

>>35117243
>>35117322

K, so...is China's ships gud now?

>>35116352
How much?

>>35117379
Too early to tell, but on paper and from the longer range and longer duration deployments they did (such as anti-piracy patrols in the Gulf of Aden, RIMPAC, several exchanges with western navies) they are pretty capable.

>>35117379
considering that the 055 is literally a giant fucking aesa radar with missiles id say yes

they have a giant fucking 346b aesa and smaller version of it around the vessel
plus 8 jammers arond the ship

it is literally a fremm on steroids

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>>35096159
>Would the PLAN even be able to take on the JMSDF?
Of course not, PLAN will just collapse like always, don't worry about it. They're no match to mighty US fluid genders navy with USS Harvey Milk, not to mention JMSDF with muh anime.

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>>35117243
The real workhorse of the PLAN is the Type 054A Jiangkai-II class Frigate.

Here, being photographed transiting the Kiel Channel in Germany to access the Baltics, after conducting anti-piracy patrols in the Gulf of Aden.

Really coming a long way from home and fairly reliable from what one can see, and produced in large numbers (soon to be 30 ships).

>>35115205
>what is black soil
>what is agricultural belt
>what is great lakes industry
>what is rocky mountain mining
>what is Ohio river valley
Have you ever left the east coast?

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>>35117429
equipped with a 32-cell VLS capable of launching both HHQ-16/B (Buk-M3) and Yu-8 ASROC.

>>35103795
I don't understand the purpose of this post

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>>35117456
And eight YJ-83 AShMs in box launchers.

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>>35117462
Latest flight (24th hull+) has Type 1130 CIWS instead of Type 730s.

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>it's another PLA wank thread
This is on par with India being a superpower and Russia reclaiming the status of the USSR. just pure nonsense.

t. Canadian

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>>35117472
Its ASW suite is fairly good, with both a set of Towed Array Sonar (TASS) and Variable Depth Sonar, as well as a towed torpedo decoy.

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>>35117488
And of course the old-style ASW rocket launchers, that are also capable of launching anti-torpedo rockets.

>>35117267
>>35117274
>>35117292
>>35117295
>>35117315
>>35117322
>>35117429
>>35117456
>>35117462
>>35117472

so you say that china is not a token nay like what the redneck shills that dont even know what a ship is try to make us believe?

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>>35117499
The Jiangkai-II spam wont end anytime soon, as the successor class will be an upgrade of the 054A.

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>>35117508
It really isnt a token navy.

The US agrees.

Pic; Official recognition chart released by the US. It was released somewhere in 2015 and is already out of date since the Chinese have added so many more ships ever since.

>>35117484
I thought this is a usual China bashing thread went full wrong and failed?

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1st Type 901 40,000 ton AOE commissioned a few days ago.

>>35117508
>70 % modern
>Pioneering AESAs
>Third biggest navy right behind the rusting Ruskie navy
>Yearly ship tonnase on par with USA
>Token navy

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>>35117561
Will be the supply ship for China's 1st carrier group.

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>>35117568
It's a big guy.

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>>35117575
As compared to the two 25,000 ton Type 071 amphibious assault ships behind it.

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>>35117584
And significantly larger than the Type 903As that were the previous mainstay AORs of the PLAN.

Here, we see it doing UNREP for the Chinese Anti-Piracy Tast Force.

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>>35117600
And in terms of Amphibious capabilities, China isnt actually so bad.

2nd place, actually.

I have good hopes on the chinks taking a leading roel in the world. America has brought Europe nothing but trouble and cultural suicide.
Seeing the burgers rail against the chinks is hilarious. Their shitty metal boxes have mechanically steered radars and are involved in scandal after scandal. And while you will be busy thinking 'debt' means anything, your manufacturing base is eroding by the day, your culture dies in high speed and your people are being replaced. Chinese are also nicer people btw. Much more humble.

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>>35117617
Planning to invade Taiwan is a goal that makes you wanna get a large amphibious force.

Pic: Type 071 LDPs and Yuyi-class LCACs.

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>>35117628
It also deploys up to 50 amphibious tanks.

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>>35117638
Mainstay are a good number of old fashioned LSTs, tho.

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>>35117642
Type 96A MBT deploying on shore.

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>>35117651
For the future, a new class of LHA is under development.

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>>35117660
And not to forget; More Zubr Hovercrafts!

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>>35117540
>>35117563
you guys really need to understand sarcasm

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>>35117666
A lot more. Even after the licence from Ukraine runs out.
China got the tech for the NK-18 engines and will produce more than 4.

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>>35117675
And then, there are the MLPs to transport these short-ranged but fast-as-fuck hovercraft landing ships.

>>35117508
No, you're right, PLAN is totally shit and weak, a token navy with empty shell full of stolen techs and copy/pasta crapy ships. China is just soulless, insectoid shit, they can never rival with US or the West. Now they just like Japs in the 80s, their time will be over soon, they'll collapse eventually, trust me. They're no match to JMSDF and US. Don't worry about them. Sleep well.

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>>35117680
So, in the end one can see that China's amphibious capabilities are anything but weak.

>>35117680
fast is not even close the fun thing about those is the water vapor is actually making it hard to lock
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mlZ6Jak1kM

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Sino-Impeccable SURTASS ship.

Snooping around US waters soon.

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>>35117703
The best thing about them is that they can float even without engine running and without air-cusion.

i wonder if they ever will try and do a
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8Nu94khHoo

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>>35117752
They have a WIG attack drone.

>>35115021
The Japanese could become strong enough to leave the US sphere of influence. Which is bad, and must be fought against.

This was actually a major concern during the early 1990's when the Chinese were not really a major players as they are now in the south china sea. It was feared that Japan would develop it's navy so much that it would become a hegemonic power in the pacific

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>>35117660
>>35117800

>Helicopter destroyer
>basically an LHA without the capability to deploy amphibious assets (aside of air-lift), but specialized in sub-hunting

I wonder if China would build something similiar as well.

Their large Z-18F ASW choppers are still desperately searching for a home.