Are subcompact guns a meme? I am looking for something small

>>35084842
No.

Yes.

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>>35084842
>I am looking for something small to CC as my first gun.

I'm a huge advocate of carrying a service sized pistol like a Glock 19 or 17 but you can still do a lot of work with a 10+1 like a Glock 26, P30SK or the Rami. There are also other options such as the P2000SK and the newer VP9, I would urge you to read these two links to give you a more educated reasoning on buying a Rami specifically, especially since it is offered with either a manual safety or a decocker.

https://pistol-training.com/archives/8549

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?27191-DB-diatribe-on-triggers&p=636780

As for the Rami, they're great guns. Here's a review on the BD (decocker version) by Mike Pannone, someone who really knows his shit about shooting CZ guns.

http://www.defensereview.com/cz-2075-rami-big-gun-performance-in-a-sub-compact-dasa-9mm-40-sw-pistol/

Is there enough difference between a compact double stack and a subcompact single stack as far as carryability goes to warrant the drop in ergos and capacity?

I'm looking for a smaller alternative to my P99 as a lighter carry gun. The P99c has identical function but doesn't seem that small for a compact carry gun, and the PPS M1 seemed uncomfortable and blocky.

>>35084842
If you have a 10 round limit and you believe in complying with that law, than yes, 9mm subcompacts like the g26 are great, and easy to hide. Can you CCW in your state? If you can't you might as well get a full size large caliber like .45 or even better 10mm.

There are defensive 9mm loads that meet FBI performance standards (desireable penetration, consistent expansion) for tests without barriers, out of a 3 inch barrel. Bear in mind that while this standard was based on "how deep does it need to go in gel to corellate withhitting something important," it's not a complete model.

Generally, the undesireable aspect of small guns is the difficulty of controlling them. A smaller grip makes it harder to keep the muzzle down under recoil. It is not impossible, and not as difficult as shooting magnum loads out of a snubnose revolver. Anons have said that the RAMI and the g26 both shoot like a larger gun, so factors like weight and grip shape can play a role in the "shootability" of a subcompact.

Look up the 9mm ammoseek series on youtube, and look up reviews for the guns you're interested in. However, the RAMI is a little harder to find fully articulated opinions on (think Colion Nior when he focuses the video on the experience of shooting one particular gun).

>>35084915
Note the 10 round limit in OP's state. 10+1 is all he gets, so a bigger grip might only count as wasted space.

>>35084968
>Is there enough difference between a compact double stack and a subcompact single stack as far as carryability goes to warrant the drop in ergos and capacity?

I really can't say since the only two guns I've carried extensively are both the Glock 19 and the Shield. There is a difference in the feel of what I'm carrying when I switch down to the Shield but because of the combination of a high quality holster that works to conceal on my body and a not too stiff gunbelt, the Glock 19 is extremely comfortable for me to carry all day. The P99c could be a good alternative considering the grip (the most difficult part to conceal) is much shorter but those subcompact type guns are typically easy to shoot while still being what I consider a subcompact.

>and the PPS M1 seemed uncomfortable and blocky.

Appearance has almost nothing to do with how comfortable a gun is. A high quality holster and belt are what make a gun comfortably conceal. You must also take into consideration of retention and a fast drawstroke when you're talking about concealing a weapon.
>>35084984
>If you can't you might as well get a full size large caliber like .45 or even better 10mm.

This is a bad idea, especially on the .45 part since you think there is some sort of quantum leap in performance you get with a .45 compared to 9mm?

If you cannot
>afford to buy more ammo to practice with since you opted for something other than 9mm
>cannot shoot as effectively as you could with a 9mm but still opt for 10mm

You are doing it all wrong. Caliber will not have as much of a factor in surviving a violent attack as situational awareness, mindset and the skill of actually employing your firearm. Having to rely on a caliber is indicative of your lack of knowledge and training.

>>35084915
Thanks for the links, I'll check them out!

>>35084984
I can CCW in my state. I will probably end up with a 9mm subcombact. I've heard the .45ACP ones kick a lot for a small gun.

>>35085016
Thanks for the advice.

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>>35085016
>>35085016
>Note the 10 round limit in OP's state. 10+1 is all he gets, so a bigger grip might only count as wasted space.

Did you mean to point his out when I mentioned the VP9? I meant VP9SK if that is where the confusion came from.

There are also larger guns like the P239, P225 and a chopped Glock 19 that accepts OEM Glock 26 mags that comply with his state laws while being a bit more shootable than the 10+1 guns I mentioned.

As for OP: check out JM Custom Kydex for a P99 holster and VolundGear's Slim G-Hook belt before you decide on getting a P99c. I think that combination of gear will greatly aid in concealing your P99 comfortably. If it doesn't work out, you can always buy a P99c and use the same holster to no ill effect, assuming the holster is able to accept the P99c which it should.

>>35085045
9mm is good enough to work, there is no doubt. But the "it's just as good as .45" is a meme. I say this as someone who only owns 9mm handguns. It's not a huge leap, but it is more effective because it dumps more energy into what it hits. I only recommend it if you are in a state that has mag limits though. From what I've seen in prices lately, .45 isn't that much more expensive to shoot. It doesn't take that much more to shoot the bigger calibers as well either. If I try shooting fast and accurate, I get .5 spreads. With 1911's that I've shot, it's probably like.75.

>>35085090
I'm not even going to bother typing out a response to this since I'm here to help an anon out by presenting non bullshit information.

I'll leave you this.
>google Jared Reston

>>35085088
Okay cool. Thanks for the recommendations. Realistically, I'll probably go to a gun store and see how different makes/models feel in my hand, but I'll keep the ones you mentioned in mind.
Thanks.

>>35085090
I have some friends who are real into guns in my state and they recommended I go with .45ACP. They said that if I have a 10 round limit, then why not make them big rounds?
I would agree with them, however, I am a pretty slim person and worried about a gun sticking out on my smaller frame.

>>35085124
32acp and above is so statistically similar that it doesn't matter.

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>>35085153
As a total newcomer to guns, this question still keeps me guessing. I've heard people on both sides swear by their lives that their side is right.
what do?

>>35085121
What lesson is the Reston case study trying to impart? He got shot a couple times and then shot back and killed the perp with his .40.
>>35085124
1911's while somewhat heavy are fairly slim in profile, but you only get 7/8 rounds and a long grip that affects concealability. If you do plan on carrying, Something like a Glock 43 with an extended baseplate is a pretty good option. You get 10 rounds and a slim profile (don't know how baseplates work with your laws). I personally have the shield, but there isn't as much aftermarket for extensions, so you get 7 or 8 round mags. I haven't looked hard though because I have bigger guns for more capacity.

>>35085198
The most non meme answer is that even .22 can kill people if you hit them in the right place. It comes down to a combination of capacity and energy of the cartridge. You get lots of opinions, but most people land around .380, .38, or 9mm being the smallest caliber worth it for self defense. When you go to higher calibers, that are more powerful, but the question comes in is whether or not the extra 10-15% more energy from say .45 over 9mm is worth nearly halving the capacity.

>>35085203
>What lesson is the Reston case study trying to impart?

Caliber doesn't mean shit more than being prepared for a fight.
>>35085198
>what do?

Stick with a standard service caliber like 9mm, .40 or .45 for legitimate defensive needs. Most LE agencies in the US along with militaries issue guns chambered in those three calibers. A detective would call that a clue.

Is this what the thread is devolving into? A debate on caliber?

single stack guns are fine, because you'll actually end up carrying a single stack gun much more often than a double stack one.

>>35085252
Okay. If you get shot if the face unexpectedly, it won't matter if you have 12.5mm rifle. But that wasn't my point that all other factors equal, .45 has slightly more energy to dump into a target.

What's the smallest a 9mm can get before it gets a little too whippy to be more useful than a .380 Auto?

Is there something about the size of an LCP in 9mm?

>>35085305
g43/shield

>>35085305
p938 is the closest in size that has a good reputation.

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>>35085315
>>35085305

>>35085315
they have some q/c issues that get glossed over because it's the smallest 9mm package, period.
not a bad gun, but there's a chance you get a lemon

>>35085315
>good reputation.
Except for the guide rods self disassembling, sure.

>>35085326
>>35085327
I must have missed that, I looked into the p938 a bit when I was looking for a pocket gun a year or so ago, I only saw glowing reviews for it. I settled on a lcp2 because I really wanted a micro gun that was still fairly effective.

>>35085327
Serial numbers beginning with 52A had a few with that problem. Serial numbers starting with 52B are reportedly very, very solid.

>>35084842
Normally, in regards to CC, I'd say go with something cheaper.

I LOVE the Rami, but man do I hate the idea of carrying around an $600~ gun. I hope to get one some day, but not for the time being.

However, since you have the round cap limit, it's almost smarter to just go that route in general, since you are not as impacted by the law.