Shotguns Are The Best Survival Firearm

>longevity
You can carry enough 22 to last you 10 years
>rate of fire
irrelevant when the capacity of a shotgun is like 10 rounds maximum

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>>35073058
Closing Thoughts.

I'm not arguing that a pump actions shotgun is better than an AR, G3, pistol, or even a .22 They are the cheapest, most diverse, will fire more projectiles than automatic firearms, and will always be legal. It is plentiful and can easily be reloaded.

Any learned individual will know that a true SHTF situation will be something like Katrina or Kosovo; to this I say re-read Art of War. If you knoe there's a damn sniper watching a place you should avoid it, and should do so unless you have a longe range rifle; but if you chose to do so expect the affiliated military/force to be more aggressive and you will lose the element of suprise.

For my poor friends a shotgun is a good investment if you're smart. Also a shotgun does not degrade like your cheap milsurp rifle, it will ALWAYS be effective at short range compared to the efficiency lost in a 60+ year old rifle. To my friends in cucked cities to where they can only get a shotgun, get a speedloader for crowds and gangs when SHTF.

For my friends who live in wide open spaces, don't get a damn shotgun. If you can't navigate to necessary resources with a short range weapon then don't. Get a CAPABLE long range rifle instead.

For shotguns there's a bunch of cool shit you can get, pistol grips, slug barrels, short barrels, sawn off, and the list goes on. The only thing that comes close to this customizability which effects proficiency is the AR (God bless).

Shotguns are a meme. The "spread" isn't enough to clear 3 dudes with 2 shots, and the lack of magazine capacity makes every shotgun inferior to semi auto rifles.

>>35073149
As an Engineer I will take responsibility.

Projectiles per minute is a made up but sound and valid unit of measurement. Let me elaborate and establish why it it's important.

IF you're in your effective range you're going to take out more people per round than one round of an automatic weapon (especially for close quarters which is why gun control is stupid).

In my unit of measurement your "1 round" is actually 8 projectiles which spread. The time you take to pump a shotgun, can allows compensation of recoil. Compared to a rising full auto gun you will be more innaccurate.

>le .22 meme
Yes you can carry more .22 what if you miss your critical shot on a person or animal? What if there's more than one?

You're asking good questions but not thinking them through, for animals like birds or squirrels one missed shot will ensure no supper. For people it's different but they willl seek cover after the 1st shot to which .22 cannot penetrate (and neither can a shotgun if you're out of effective range). .22 is great for learning, but it's like a gun with a very high crit rate in fallout (God bless Fallout New Vegas) it is deadly but it normally it's not.

Shotguns are the heftiest round, you are right. This comes with benefits like abundance, customization, versatility, easily reloadable, and can fire more projectiles at more effectivness (in your range, don't be a dumbass) than a M16.

More importantly ammo and firearms are CHEAP.

>>35073335
Yes spread is overrated. It is still a spread.

There is an easy way to utilize this.

Train. Train. Train.

Train with an AR and you can't take out 2 people with one shot at any angle. Know your spread and you can do that with a basic bitch shotgun.

Not a valid argument. Especially considering speedloaders exist.

Counters;
1. Inaccuracy is still a bitch. Yes, you can get very good with a shotgun. Yes, some shotguns are capably accurate out to seventy-five meters or so. But .22LR is effective with a little practice out to double that, and considerably more accurate at ranges over forty meters when compared to a similarly-priced shotgun.

2. Practice. Practicing with .22 is simply cheaper than practicing with a shotgun. I can buy .22 for less than three cents a shot. The cheapest 12ga I see just hopping around the internet is going for a quarter a round. Cheaper ammo means more practice which means more effectiveness, simple.

3. Your "viability" section is bullshit. Yes, a pump action can put more projectiles in the air than a M16 with the fun switch flicked to retard. But in all likelihood the guy with the rifle is getting more accurate shots on you more quickly than you are on him.

4. Ounces make pounds, pounds make pain. Shotguns are heavy, .22 rifles are not.

5. You aren't going to be consistently hitting multiple birds or squirrels with one shot very often. Why not go with the weapon that will raise your odds of hitting one target more consistently?

6. If SHTF goes down, being quiet will be a necessity. I'm aware that the first suppressors were designed for use with shotguns, but you can literally make a .22 suppressor out of some duct tape, a two liter bottle and a wad of toilet paper. If you want to get elaborate, start messing with PVC piping and metal scrubbing pads. You're getting a quieter weapon you can use from farther away, for cheaper.

7. Just buy a .22 and a cheap AR. You're getting better performance in most situations for just as much, if not less than what you'd pay for a decent shotgun. Also, you're getting redundancy and widespread parts compatibility.

>>35073058
you've never used an AR, have you anon?

>>35073473
I used an AR and a AK. The AR is the most customizable by far. It is a damn good rifle. It can reach out far and you can carry a lot which is why the military used it. If you don't like the 5.56 get .458 SOCOM, or 6.5 Creedmoore.

I even said an AR is more viable if you can't safely navigate with a shotgun, infact I urged people to get that or a rifle instead.

The AR is a damn fine rifle, but if you're poor you and smart you can get by with a shotgun. Cops do it with pistols and shotguns why aren't they all fuckin' dead?

Training. What's the best firearm you can use and easily change your ammo utilized with training? A shotgun. You have to change out your upper and lower, which isn't hard but adds more weight than a slug barrel it takes longer to do so as well.

The point is with training and wisdom a shptgun is the most viable, obviously not the best but a jack of all trades, ace at most urban firefights in recent recorded history.

I can only afford a single shot am I fucked? Why are doubles so expensive

>>35073058
Admit this is a bait thread and stop changing your stance

>>35073596
It's literally a second barrel it's going to be a little bit more.

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>>35073426
It isn't valid when you cant account for all 8 projectiles at least not horizontally.

By your logic a double barrel shotgun is the most effective.

>>35073596
Save up for a Mossberg man, it may take longer but it may be worth it.

>>35073058
OP is right in a way, if you can only have 1 gun, a shotgun isnt a bad way to go, though I'd argue a pistol is a very good thing too

>>35073741
But what if I need a gun before I can?

I already have to save up for months for a single shot

>>35073469
My rebuttal to your counters numbered after your points.

1. Effective at that range? Yes. Compared to a shotgun? No. That's the point especially with spread.

If you're smart at 75m you should see them before they should see you. You're not traveling through an open field you're going around trees, alleys, and buildings.

2. Cheaper? Yes. For what you get per .25 cents is 8 of what you fire off in a .22 at ONCE. so would you rather fire 8 rounds or fire 1? That comes out to .24 cents. That argument is invalid. It would be more valid to criticize the "eat softly" comment because yes you can take out more at the cost of worse quality food.

3. "More accurate" "rifle" you've never fired an intermediate cartridge. The barrel rises and is not very accurate in sustained fun mode. Hence why gangstas kill a lot of bystanders. Think about mass shootings, most happen in close range 1 shot is 1 round with a rifle and in a full auto you're going to be more innacurte. Compared to a shotgun which is innacurate as you say but it doesn't matter at that range. There's still a spread larger than a single or couple 5.56mm projectile(s).

4. Like I said. There's no perfect round. Buckshot is more of a threat in that first shot than a .22 Yes it is more heavy. It's also more versatile and more customizable.

5. A animal dying still scares animals look at videos of pellet guns used to kill rats. As for people, if you're goal is to kill a bunch of people silently then do so, however most people's goal is to survive. If you fire at a group of people they will seak cover, and they will NOT run at you like a bunch of zombies.

Again a good practical counter but not based in reality. Being quiet applies more to movement at the range of a .22 than a shotgun. Moving smart is better than a smart gun.

6. Yes you can. Not as cheap as a shotgun. Relying on equipment is not how you survive. If you're smart a shotgun can beat anything.

>>35073741
A good do-all handgun will cost you a hell of a lot more than a shotgun though. I think you can get a pretty decent shotgun for even less than a hi-point

>>35073741
Pistol is the single least useful thing you can have where concealability isn't an issue.
Right now, you want an AR if you're limited to 1 and in the US.

>>35073641
Don't get in a that situation anon. If you read the Art of WR you would know better.

But for people who can't comprehend here is a modern and understandable example. A Scout Sniper should not engage with a group of people mid-close range. In a SHTF why would you? They may be armed but they're not a threat unless you allow that. Avoid them. If you're objective is to get into firefights with people then yes a rifle is better.

Also 850rpm is measured with a 850rnd mag. A speedloader grants 6*8 projectiles. Also you won't be counting rounds in a firefight so the reloas is not as easy as putting a mag in with 1 in the chamber.

>>35073752
A single shotgun is more versatile, but doesn't have the firepower a pump action does. I'm not a shotgun cocksucker, a hi-point is the $200 mark and the average pump is $350. Go for the hi-point it is more viable compared to a single shot. Use the single shot for game.

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>>35073778
I'm OP, this is another drawback to shotguns even with the option of sawn off. A pistol is more concealable. Not as versatile, not as much firepower. But a just as viable option for urban areas.

I agree. The shotgun is just the best all round option for smart survivors and cheaper.

>>35073603
>provide a valid and sound argument
>shitpost instead

>>/pol/
>>/b/

You will like those places more my friend.

>>35073946
Depends on the city. If it's gridded with wide streets you're not going anywhere if there's a real rifle around, and a shotgun or pistol is near useless. Meanwhile, a semi auto rifle is working just fine up close.

>>35073971
I agree. You can move smart, but like I said with open fields, I highly urge you to get a rifle. For most cities and places a shotgun is a good.

However if you can't move on the streets there's buildings and sewers, the oerfect area for a close quarters weapon. Ofcourse if you know they're occupied you should a avoid them. But libraries are the least looted building and map layouts are almost always available.

>>35074003
Man, I wouldn't trust a shotgun past 70 yards. Shotguns are for pheasants and fun, not combat.

>>35073917
Good luck carrying those fragile speedloaders and not to mention more than 20 rounds.

>>35074025
I agree, you shouldn't be shooting at anything but animals in a SHTF. Police and military use shotguns for CQC which is what most of Americans live in. Why do the police still use them for those environments if they aren't effective. If you're going to be in close quarters why not use what the police and military use. Hell even Thumpers had shotgun like rounds in Vietnam due to experience.

This is the last time I will say it. If you're smart and even poor a shotgun is more viable unless you love in open fields. If you are shot at find cover and wait, make the enemy advance into your effective range or even better they'll leave.

>>35074056
Goodluck trying to pick fights where you need more than 20 rounds. You have the advantage of no objective besides personal safety. I'm not going to repeat myself for this phrase either, don't pick fights. If you have a group have each person dedicated for an range. I'm not saying everyone should use a shotgun if SHTF but if you're smart enough a shotgun is viable for almost any scenario. You can't discern the environment beyond an open field.

You want to be in cover as much as possible, what's the best weapon to ensure the most security if you're already in cover? A shotgun for close range. Make the environment work for you not againdt you. Again another indication of ignorance. You're not stupid but you think like an engineer which is what I am. There's so many factors but the biggest is where you are to begin with.

>>35074096
Shotguns are useful for animals, indoors, and similar situations where you pretty much have total control. If you're outside and don't a have a rifle when you could and you know people/negroes might be shooting rifles at you, you're being intensely dumb. You will need to go outside and if people can take pot shots at you without and response, you're not going to have a good time.

Look at it this way, you have 1 gun to go all the way through STALKER. Are you going to try it with a fucking Chaser?

>>35073469
>Why not go with the weapon that will raise your odds of hitting one target more consistently?
you mean by firing a cloud of small but still lethal projectiles at an animal?
a hundred and fifty chances of a mortal wound on your prey adds up to an almost guaranteed kill if you aim more or less on target, compared to one chance of a hit that requires a fair degree of precision to be imminently lethal.

>>35074147
Then why go where you don't have the advantage? Also most confrontations with untrained civies are close range.

I agree with the STALKER part. However the game tells you who are enemies and you have the element of suprise (hence why scoped.is better like the Vintar).

In real life you want to avoid conflict and enemies won't follow you and know exactly where you are. Also for mutants you use a shotgun and they are the biggest threat, in real life such is not the case but by STALKER logic it is. It is a damn realistic game though. But you die. A lot..you can't afford that in real life.

>>35074160
I agree. If you're smart you should know how to track.

However you forget that you have the possibility of taking out multiple game in one shot. If you do hit them there are projectiles. More projectiles mean more blood loss which makes it even easier to track. Again rather than agreeing with me about the disadvantage of using a shotgun in general. Along with worse food quality you instead make invalid points getting into details which don't factor as much as others.

More wounda = more blood = easier to track + faster to die.

Question...
Why would I ever be in a situation in which I had to choose either/or?
What kind of circumstances would prevent me from carrying a shotgun AND also something for long range?

>>35073558
You realise most departments have replaced shotguns with ARs right? A shotgun does one thing a rifle can't do well, shoot small flying targets. As for price, you can get an AR that will run reliably for $600 and ammo is 22-24 cents per round, vs 00 buck being 30-40 cents per round.

Considering you can use an AR very effectively out to 300 yards with overall very little training and practice loaded with 22 cent ammo, where as 200 yards with a shotgun loaded with ammo that costs $1.50 per round is a much more difficult shot (especially if you're not using optics) there's really no point in going for a shotgun unless you're literally dirt poor and don't plan on actually training with it.

>>35074199
>why go where you don't have the advantage
Because sometimes you need to get shit done, and in the case of survival/SHTF if you're in an urban area you're going to want to correct that mistake ASAP. You have zero incentive to stick your face in the bloodsucker nest, but you choose the gun that's only useful for those times?

>>35074249
It's a bullshit scenario, but what if.

>>35074249
Answer read my post. For the 4th time use a damn long range rifle if you can't safely navigate with a close range weapon.

The same counter can be used against the popular "gray man" infograph. Don't get into those situations.

As police know and utlize "more tools = more hesitation". Yes it is better to carry a shotgun + whatever range a firearm fits you have to endure through. For most people you can survive easier by choosing close range and knowing you have an advantage.

For the 50th time be smart. Don't put yourself into "should I" situations and put yourself into "I have the advantage" situations. Whatever firearm that maybe, beit long, mid, or short range. But most recorded urhan firefights are short range. If SHTF younwill always be alert. Today a concealable pistol is WAY more effective.

>>35074287
They have ARs because
>they don't care about looking like the military being too scary anymore
>they want to look like the military

>>35074346
I'd rather have an L1A1 myself, but finding parts would be an absolute bitch.

>>35073058
Turn on your trip, Zed.

>>35074346
You sure it's not because they were getting out gunned in shootouts? I seem to recall an incident in north hollywood...

>>35074146
Goodluck trying to pick fights where you need to shoot 2 with one buckshot (which you cant) to prove the validity of your shit setup

Also you havent brought up the aspect of chokes in your posts so im positive you have no idea what you are talking about.

>>35074096
Police and military gear are determined by budget and politics

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>>35073058
this one of the worst posts here lately, including /pol/ raids and tranny shit.

>>35074287
For one. Most police get government hand me downs. For cost sake it's cheaper to get your department a gun thr government is trying to get rid of than arm yourselves with brand new shotguns a private company is selling becuase they know the government can pay.

Doesn't change the fact crowd control utilizes shotguns and all breeches utilize one as well.

>1.50 per round
Well I already wrote this post out. So here's your (you).

>>35074303
Yes. Because "those times" are literally most of the time. What shit will you need done that puts your life in danger? None. Don't go blasting at a group that shoots at you out of range. Get the fuck out of there if you value your life.

As a group or lone wolf getting out only prevents risk. Life is not a videogame or the range. Life is how many "fuck you's" you can give at a split second. Which is a range.

Will it take you longer to be in a low risk route? Yes. Keep your advantages. Tactics 101. Don't do dumbass shit like fight the bandits. Gtfo because in real life they don't have magical senses.

Can you still die? Yes. But if that happens younalready fucked up.

For example a snake can hide on the opposite side of a log. It doesn't matter what gun you carry dude. Being cautious goes a long way. If you know most guns can reach that far why not use a gun that can sustain you and is easily reloadable; as well as be more viable for close quarters?

Captchas are getting rediculous. I'm not making fun of you and I know my points have flaws in SOME scenarios.

So what happens when the dude you come up against is wearing some body armor like the Hollywood shoot out? Get mowed like the officers or are we assuming you're wearing armor too?

>>35074387
Not Zed. He uses his trio for dumbass questions as well and for nearly all his posts where he thinks he is right and has confidence. Such is the way of a tripfag.

>>35074428
>>/pol/
>>/b/
A bad ideas as chains of replies. No ome replies because I emphasize on their counters.

Literally 0/10 /b/ tier bait. I'm going to sage as OP.

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>>35074470
For validation. You can see the 100% and sage.

>>35074440
>What shit will you need done that puts your life in danger? None
>in a city

Get real m8

>>35074470
>Not Zed.
It's Zed.

To quote Sun Tzu who you're so fond of:
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself"

In this scenario you are defeating yourself.

This advice you go on about using good routes, avoiding enemy is great. Except for when you're wrong and ambushed. Good routes become bad once they're traveled often (t. Every asymmetric military campaign ever).

You will not always have favorable engagements, and for that reason not having an ar15, or rifle of choice, is foolish.

>>35074387
I was just thinking this
>Long, rambling post filled with half-truths but still bullshit enough to illicit a response
>Leaning towards fuddisms
>Constant spacing throughout essay-length posts
>Even Remington product placement in the OP

>>35074440
Most departments purchase their rifles. Very few get surplussed M16s or M4s.

Shotguns are indeed used in breaching, sometimes, and usually the door still has to be manually breached after the hinges are taken out. It's not as common as it used to be with the proliferation of safer breaching charges.

As for the $1.50 slugs, I'm pretty sure you're not getting reliable hits out to 200 yards with rifles lead slugs and you're definitely not finding sabot slugs for less than $1.50 a round.

>>35074550
Oh, forgot the riot control thing. Most of what's used is 37 and 40mm launchers, fire hoses, .68cal pnuematic guns, and gas grenades.

>>35074440
>Most police get government hand me downs.
But that's wrong. If you were talking about vehicles and ammo, yeah, but when it comes to personal gear and weapons the vast majority is brand new, contract ordered shit.

>>35074575
Not everyone's a LEO. If you see shit going down and you're trying to survive you probably won't engage.

Also you want LEO's to be as armed as the population and even then you can be undermined.

SWAT couldn't do shit against the Death dozer or whatever it's called. Do you want to ride around in a death dozer? Probably based off your comprehension. When you have to leave it and people can follow and ambush you on your exit now you might not.

>>35074656
Did you just have a fucking stroke?

>>35074572
Yeah are you going to fight a fucking crowd upclose? No. If you could understand that wisdom, knowledge, and caution saved more than any of that shit you would shut up.

But you are right I agree. However they use that for that scenario for everyone's safety.

The point of being smart with a shotfun is having advantage at a scenario you can control.

>>35074550
It's harder to see 300m away than a 10 yards away. Most bandits rob easy targets not the ones taking the slower and smarter path where they're more in control. Why is this not getting through to you. You're too busy focusing on minute details than the overwhelming advantage of having control as well as smart tactics. Yes a rifle and AR is better for open areas. However you may have less range than the unknown enemy and check longer. As well as having NO COVER.

What you should counter with is how armies move through open fields over dense areas. To that I say it is easier to ambush in a close range area. However you're not an army. You can leave whenever and be harder to detect as a small group or as one. Also SHTF is not a war where you try to secure areas.

Shotguns are the best survivalist gun because they are the one gun that is ok at everything. Birds? Yes. I've seen videos of /k/ shoots. You are not going to be able to hit a bird with a .22, asshole. Small game? Yes. Snakes. Yes. Racoons, skunks, and turkeys? Yes. Deer? Yes. With buckshot or slugs. People? Yes. Buckshot or slugs. Is it best at any of these? Other than birds and snakes, no. Can any other gun even attempt all of this? No. If you only have one, have a shotgun. If you have more than one, a shotgun can supplement any of them.

>>35073465
Post a pic of your shotgun anon

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i agree OP

>>35073558
>Cops do it with pistols and shotguns why aren't they all fuckin' dead?

The majority of police officers that are feloniously killed are by their own gun.

>>35073058
Shotguns will outlast that shit because of a number of reasons.

The pressures are HIGHLY conducive to being made with shit like wrapped plastic hulls (currently being done), paper, and even modified brass and steel tubing

The plastic and paper cartridges can be reloaded with very little effort and tooling compared to rifle and pistol ammunition.

The Guns don't have to be as well made or precise in terms of manufacture due to the lower pressures of the ammo.

The cartridge 12 Gauge is already one of the easiest cartridges to get in existence.

So, with all that said, while rifles and pistols are better, in the long run we'll definitely be making shotguns in a post apocalyptic future LONG before any brass cased rifle/pistol cartridges and firearms will be made.

You can also make shot a whole lot easier than bullets.
Fuck, guys, now I want an SBS.

>>35075862
Actually, let's make this a "let's restart the arms industry in a rebuilding post apocalyptic world" thread.

Obviously shotguns are the quickest gun to get back on our budding market due to the ease of manufacture, but what about pistols and rifles?

What currently manufactured caliber is the easiest to set up theoretical tooling to produce out of shitloads of scrap?

.38 special and 45-70 because straight walls and originally being BP?
.223/5.56 because of the shitloads of old tooling we could set back up?
7.62x39 because of the hilarious taper that would help prevent out of spec problems?

>>35075862
Shoot, it doesn't even have to be legit "shot"
If it fits down the barrel it can be shot out of a shotgun.