What was wrong with BDUs or why didn't the US keep it instead

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>>35048707
It's inferior
>pic related

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>>35048707
i dont know, but whoever made that decision needs to be shot and killed

black is actually a negative attrivute in camo patterns.

woodland was made for hiding in the German forests.

Muhreens wanted to feel special.

the new uniforms are easier to maintain, easier to use, less hot, no black boots to constantly clean and shine.

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>>35048782
>tell soldieres to stop ironing their BDU/DCUs. wash and wear.
>buttons > velcro and zippers.
>inner crotch flap on BDU/DCU summer pants. to keep out the bugs.
>winter uniforms were really durable. summer uniforms were lighter than ACUs.
>stop demanding a mirror polish on the boots. just keep them clean and a quick brushing with a little bit of polish when you need to look better than usual.

the problems with BDUs were entirely down to command requirements. since it also replaced garrison uniforms.

>>35048790
> OCPs
> Dumb bullshit
Works great for a garrison uniform, for field uniform we have combat shirts which are also fucking great
Plus, OCP/Multicam is better as a pattern

>NWU
> Dumb bullshit
A lot less dumb than fucking blueberries, in a functional uniform, that works as camouflage in its respective environment

Found the butthurt Muhreen

>>35048782
I don't know if that's the real reason why, but I definitely prefer OCP's for this reason. I love my Grandad's black boots as much as the next guy, but I'd take my Bellevilles or Danners over them any day. Much more supportive, and cosmetically more durable.

>>35048826
Also this is spot on about the Combat Shirts.

>>35048820
When I wore BDUs, I exclusively wore summers, and cut out the crotch flap and everything
In the field we didn't polish boots
If we just removed
pen pocket
velcro everywhere
zippered shoulder pockets

life would be good

>>35048790
MCCUU camo pattern still has black in it. black on an otherwise light colored camo.

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>>35048840
Yeah but they're getting phased out, along with UCP ACUs

I'm tracking there's a few NWUs anon, but the woodland the entire Navy is switching to isn't bad at all

>>35048849
I don't think these were ever used by anyone in any combat environment ever, maybe the Navy's equivalent of an MP or something

>>35048849
>What market does this appeal to?
autistic children who want to blend in with the waves for whatever reason

>>35048707
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the U.S BDU.
Name me a more aesthetic camo than m81 woodland
>protip: you can't

>>35048846
>>35048840
The NWU IIIs are used by SEALs and shit, they actually look pretty cool but I still think the NWU IIs are more cool because no other branch has blue working uniforms.

I'm alone in that opinion.

>>35048835
if you have pens int he pen pocket. it always gets caught up on pack straps or load bearing gear.

the velcro that came standard on the ACU was ass. the hook side was hard plastic. the loop side wore out after a year. the cheap stitching always caused fabric to wrinkle around velcro. velcro on your uniform catching on the velcro of someone else's uniform all the time. velcro sleeve cuffs always failing.

buttons are better than zippers or velcro. they're quiet and easier to fix.

>>35048849
>airsoft players
>south korea movie star

>>35048707
>inb4 dumbasses confuse ACU for UCP

>>35048827
>Cosmetically more durable

Uhh.. Anon

>>35048902
Normies and dumbasses believe that ACU is a particular camo pattern(UCP).

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>>35048747
UCP is pretty hated, being universal it seems to not work in any environment particularly well, mediocre in woodland, arid, jungle, and urban. I think it looks okay in certain mountainous terrain, some urban environments, and far away. Generally, it has too much white, and kinda 'blues' out in certain contexts. It's worse in basically every environment than multi cam. I think it looks cool, but it sucks as camouflage.

>>35048707
I liked the classic US woodland pattern, the biggest issue seem to be too much black, and that it tends to 'dark out' in certain conditions, It also sucks in semi-arid terrain.

>>35048840
Navy plebs wanted to jump on the digital camo band wagon, the only scenario where this is effective camouflage is if you're in water in which case you would want to be as visible as possible. Looks 'cool', but functionally useless.

Thoughts on MTP, I like it but it looks like a rip off of Multicam, maybe a bit more green.

>>35048707
Because the Marines.

>want to stand out as a branch
>CADPAT is cool, lets use that, but more murican
Army
>but now we look outdated
Navy
>blue is navy right?
Airforce
>we have army history, we'll just modify their pattern

>>35048866
Tigerstripe

>>35048981
tru spec

>>35048997
Airforce changed their uniforms to use stripe UCP because they didn't want to stand out from the army, when their people were outside the wire.

how did the marines get away with copyrighting their camo pattern and keeping everyoen else from adopting it?

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>>35049018
MARPAT should be standard issue desu

Meanwhile, I'm one of the weirdos who liked how UCP blended in Korengal/Restrepo. It fit for the mountainous region.

>>35049027
This.

It is a logical evolution of camouflage. If digitized patterns are going to be the future, then we should have stuck with a color scheme that we knew worked. the M81 color pallet is great for innawoods work in the US and abroad. Their desert pattern is good and simple and is functional. If they had just presented their findings on the pattern to the DOD instead of reserving for Marine Corp use, then we could have had a great looking standardized military.

The search for a universal pattern is fucking retarded. Multicam is now too light for woodland and too dark for desert. We just need to accept that we need two different uniform standards for different theaters of combat.

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we have to go back

>>35049087
the army is going to theater specific camo.

multicam is just the general issue pattern.

UCP failed the tests and was still picked.

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>>35049392
Yes. Back to erdl

>>35048981
CP, arc'teryx, a few others. Tru spec and Emerson and the air shit tier ones dont last, or arnt NIR or will melt to your fucking skin.

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What about multicam tropic?

>>35050715
>Let's create a universal camo
>Now let's make different variations of it for different theatres
Whats the fucking point

>>35049431
I've never understood why they don't adopt an OD uniform and just issue theater specific smocks or whatever. That'd have to be cheaper than changing the uniform every time Crye discovers a new camo pattern.

>>35050881
I agree with that fully. All our reserve forces get issued OD or DT depending on the country they are in. Combat forces or anyone who would benefit from camo gets a smock.

>Be IT2 Navy Fag
>Where bright fucking blue camo 4 days a week
>Don't ever wear them topside because if I go overboard no one is gonna find me
>Wear NSU's (basically a paper napkin for a shirt) on Fridays to look even gayer
>Still wear giant fucking black clomper boots
>My uniform is not fire resistant, when to be quite honest my branch deals with the most fire hazards on a day to day basis. In fact, my NWU's have state of the art melt-to-your-skin technology copy righted by the Naval Laboratory.
>Sleep below the waterline because I'm a worthless NCO and I just fucking know a third oil tanker is going to crush be to bits one night while we're underway
>We're switching to a green digi uniform that's mandatory by 2019. We have to pay for it ourselves.

Fuck. Coveralls should be our go to uniform everyday. We're all fucking technicians and mechanics essentially. God I wish I joined the coast guard.

>>35050881
>>35050905
>OD pins & patches
>location dependent fluff & buff
yes

>>35051087
The irony of dying onboard a ship on fire in the middle of the ocean is not lost on me.

>>35050731
Because there is no universal camo, did you not learn from UCP?

>>35048866
>M90
is comfy

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>>35049011
This

>>35048871
Whole navy uses NWU type IIIs

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>>35048707

Holy shit, that's my old unit. I know two of the people in this picture and I probably still have an old set of BDU's with those same patches on it somewhere.

Proof, that's my old unit Tshirt up top and a clip from OP's photo on bottom of attached pic.

I'm here for dank memes, not to be taken down a path of feels.

>>35049027
Marines were cock holsters and copywrited or trademarked it (IDK, I'm not a fucking lawyer) so other branches couldn't use it. That's one of the reasons the Army went with UCP. And also why congress passed the NDAA.

>>35048981
Crye and massif

>>35052369
Isn't the globe and anchor subtly printed throughout the pattern? Like one every couple of square inches of fabric?

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>>35052448
Looks like it

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>>35050731

Sorry I should have been more specific with my question

So apparently there really is no true universal camo. With that being said what does /k/ think of multicam tropic? Multicam falls short in woodlands due to it being too light. Is multicam tropics a good variation?

If you had to pic a camo for each environment such as
>1.woodlands/jungle
>2. Desert/arid
>3. Snow

What would you pick?

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>>35052818
>there really is no true universal camo.

OD

>>35052173
Any story time?

>>35052448

Yeah, we still don't know why we do it though.

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>>35052892

It was a really good unit. Did a lot of good work in the AOR (SOUTHCOM). Humanitarian type stuff, helping folks who didn't even have clean water.


Funny side note, around the time this picture was taken someone accidentally took the 50 out to a range that was only backdropped for 308. A round skipped over the berm and took out a civilians washing machine through the wall of their house. I'm sure that counts for a chuckle.

I had to dust off my old external hard drive from that time to see if I had any pics floating around. Sure do. Even have one from my promotion ceremony taken down the hall from where OP's photo was taken.

Here's one pic I found, my old patrol car and rifle., I'll write the story in another post... hang tight.

>>35051087
I thought y'all still used dungarees and chambray work shirts? Why the fuck would anyone put sailors, on a boat, doing boat type non Steven Segal shit, in fucking camo instead of a legit work uniform?

>>35051113
I had a sailboat burn out from under me in the gulf of Mexico. It was darkly hilarious.

>>35052083
Yeah, but not until October

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>>35052892
>>35053049

So the base was huge, not a lot of buildings but a LOT of land mass. I used to go patrol it in my beater government issued patrol car. It was a nice cruise, I could ride the fence line and watch the sunrise in the desert, enjoy some lunch, check for perimeter integrity, and listen to some radio. Nobody else wanted to take the route because it "sucked" but I enjoyed the solitude. I had it timed just right so that I'd head out just after guard mount be back at the end of day guard mount (shift change) just in time to take a piss, take out the trash, check in with my Sergeant, and hand off my post to the next guy.

However, I started to notice abnormalities over a few days. At first it was just holes dug in some spots. I reported it and was told it was probably javelinas. Then it was fence pushed in / pulled out in places. I reported it and was told "just ground shifting". But it was pretty obvious that it was intruders of the bi-pedal variety. That's when I started requesting a rifle as opposed to just the M9.

My camera back then was a shitty flip phone and I started taking pictures. Here's one from where a fence crossed a flood/drainage culvert. It's pretty obvious that that breach is more than "ground shifting".

I'd hand my post briefings over to the night guy but he hated going out that far and the desk sergeant didn't ever seem to care, in spite of photographic evidence.

OH, one more story, coming up in another post.

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>>35052892

Can't believe I didn't think about THIS story first...

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/1843/illegal-alien-invasion-in-pictures/

Two illegals tried running the gate. Luckily they were stopped by the barrier, if they had made it past we had already leveled guns at them.

They had drugs, money, and guns in the car. My supervisor at the time is in one of the pictures on the link. I'm off to the side, off frame.

Then there's the time Ronald McDonald came through the gate for an Air Show and showed us how to grill hamburgers... that was the picture I was trying to find.

>>35052818
Not bad for jungle environments. For standard woodland though, it's way too dark. Needs brown and some lighter greens. In a lot of the test/comparison videos I've watched, it ends up looking like a solid blob when in shadow.

Obviously it depends on the kind of woodland you are in. But for me on the East Coast, Marpat is a much better choice. This isn't to say it is a bad looking camo though.

As for picking for the environments...

Woodland: Marpat-W, US4CES and M81 are all good choices For standard Spring/Summer. People complain about the amount of black, but it comes in handy for disrupting your outline. Especially in NV. Another one I like that I don't think a lot of people know about is Pencott Greenzone. That is probably the best camo for the part of the states I live in. Flecktarn has too much rust color in it. Might work better as a fall camo.

Desert: Desert Tri-color or Marpat. Chocolate chip not bad either. Depends on the type of desert.

Snow: White smock over standard BDUs. If you insist on a pattern, something that is mostly white. Maybe with a sprinkling of grey. MC Alpine and maybe Marpat winter. Large, "distinct" patterns are more trouble than they're worth in winter environments.

>>35053709
Pencott rules. Not sure if Badlands or Greenzone is the right choice for my area, but either way I'd look fly.

>>35048997
In all honesty is there any reason for 95+% of the navy and air force to wear cammo? just issue everyone navy blue or od uniforms and overalls to people in manual jobs.

>>35048866
Flektarn

>>35048866
Belgian jigsaw

>>35048826
God I love combat shirts. I'd take that shit over OCPs in the hangar any time.

>>35048835
>He wants velcro back
Fuck you

>>35049078
It only fit because the uniforms were filthy. You shouldnt have to roll in the dirt for a week straight before your camo starts to work.

>>35053709
About snow

>Plain white
If operating in large open areas
>Finnish or swedish snow camo
If there is vegetation (trees, brushes...) present.

>>35055785
Pencott has pretty good patterns

>>35048866
Any WWII German camo, expect dot- and M40-pattern.

>>35056035
>If we just removed
>pen pocket
>velcro everywhere
>zippered shoulder pockets

>life would be good

He didn't want velcro back, just wrote terribly.

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>>35048707
Just make everything tan and be fucking done with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nib64bGEAGw&t=13s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukCevUx16G8&t=184s

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>>35049392
I mean, MARSOC and a bunch of SOCOM dudes still use M81, albeit in the form of new production BDUs and CryeFires

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>>35048707
Well, the Marine Corps started the whole snowflake pattern thing. That being said, they replaced M81 with an objectively better pattern. M81 was a shit performer. Even compared to other NATO countries' patterns. The army eventually got a better pattern after the UCP fiasco.

Basically:
1. M81 was a poor pattern that was way the fuck too dark for the vast majority of regions and had inefficient large amoebas (only a macro pattern).
2. The USMC replaced it with a functionally better and lighter colored Woodland pattern with micro and macro sized "pixels".
3. The Army replaced it with a functionally better transitional terrain pattern with gradient fade amoebas and a wide color palette.
4. The Navy is always the last to do anything, but did get its shit together.

>>35056163
MARSOC makes a lot of shit decisions like this. They keep blowing money on jungle camo for the desert and muh fowty figh Steven Seagal specials. No wonder they can't get in to JSOC.

>>35056180
>>35056180
In all fairness was their any need for the navy to adopt a new uniform anyway? Those who actually do need to wear camo will do so regardless.

Like how the Aussie airforce now has blue multi solely because they got sick of been mistaken for the army. The only real benefit of this was that a bunch of service dress items can now be worn as everyday wear with you regular uniform.

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>>35056163

>>35056212
They use Glock 19s now.

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>>35056212
>>35057652

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>>35049560
lowland ERDL is best ERDL

>>35050715
Kickass for the jungle or rainforest type places(Pacific Northwest) and woodlands in the summer when bright green is dominant.

>>35057657
Can anyone ID the jeans for me?

>>35048879
>>35056035
I apologize anons, I was a little drunk when I wrote that. I wanted all the shit I listed removed. I'm still in, bought the OCPs when they came out. I think they're an improvement from the ACUs, but I still miss BDUs for the lack of velcro

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>>35057919
Don't know but you probably wouldn't want them any way. Looks like that guys crotch blew out.

>>35056212
MARSOC shouldn't exist.

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>>35057954
take it back

>>35057958
Aesthetic yes, useful not really

>>35048707
Dungarees made a lot more sense as a Navy working uniform. And cotton is much better working inside a flammables box where one can suffer missile hits.

>>35055951

Seconding and also tropentarn better than chocolate chip

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>>35048820
>buttons > Velcro and zipper

I beg to fucking differ. My woodland Cammie trousers literally have no buttons after boot and MCT. I wish we had Velcro and zipper.

>>35048866
Lowland ERDL

>>35048849
Airsofters.

Which combloc country uses the brown xboxheug digital?

>>35058763
Shut the fuck up and buy new cammies.

Boot.

>>35052857
Fucking this. OD is perfect cause I'm a Floridafag

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>>35056124
That looks like shit

>>35056262
I gotta say the Aussie air force blue cammies are a crime against nature

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>>35057984
MARSOC are brotier

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>>35059750
Jesus the Aussie army are a bunch of poofters aren't they?

>>35056124
>tan

OD all day every day

>>35048707
90% of the militarys decisions are based on civilian contracts. Even if there's nothing wrong with it they will eventually get phased out when the contract is over. Money runs it not common sense.

>>35059567
I'm inclined to agree

>>35059877
Tan is objectively more effective.

>>35060147
Tan is more effective than green, but modern patterns have them both licked.

>>35050881
I proposed something similar, except with a transitional pattern like multicam as standard on this board and people shot it down. Saying stupid shit like "oi boys we're gonna just drop all our shit and put on some jackets cuz we were in brown area now green, won't take long, oh shit I got shot". Except troops do do this shit for changing temps but for environment nah, that's too crazy.

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>>35060173
I beg to differ.

>>35061042
If your patrol can't establish a secure perimeter for the 30-45 seconds it takes to adjust clothing, I'm sorry but they deserve to get shot.

>>35048889
Different anon but what I think he means is that they maintain an okay appearance despite intense wear and tear. Aka it's hard to notice a small cut or abrasion on current issue boots than if it were on black boots

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>>35061042
>>35050881
Adjusting uniforms for your environment isn't always feasible. Soldiers are frequently in poor camouflage for their environment simply because they didn't have time to change, are on the move, have a ruined bloody or filthy alternate uniform, or didn't even have the ability to bring their other camo in the first place. In a region like Afghanistan where you can go from sandy desert, to dense forest, to snow capped peaks all in the course of an afternoon, soldiers aren't likely to have the ability to stop a patrol and take off their PPE just to switch camo. Transitional patterns are the way to go. At the very least, having a woodland and desert pattern which are still mostly a neutral brown like the Marines is a very good choice.

>>35057950
But they're operator approved.

>>35048707
It isn't non-functional to the point of UCP. It was just too dark and was replaced by better patterns.

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>>35048707

the military has an amazing capacity to ruin any thing ever that was nice.

>>35048707
I was in the USAF when they were transitioning from the BDU to ABU.

The BDUs were comfier, but they were higher maintenance. The black leather boots required shining or cleaning pretty much every day. People would spend $150 on the Marauders during tech school just so that they have less area on the boot that needed shining. What REALLY chapped my ass about them was that even though it's not in the regs, people still expected you to do things to that to it because it looks sharper -- namely the big crease on the sleeves. The way that it was explained to me was that years before some shithead started that meme and it just permeated throughout the Air Force to the point where that if you didn't have creased sleeves you were automatically considered a shitbag. There was also the unit patches of which you were expected to have at least the two that go on the pocket which is just more bullshit with the sole purpose of driving the uniform economy every time you get your BDU top done. Other things were having the pocket buttons removed and the pocket sewn shut. I could have sworn I've seen a couple of people with their collars sewn down as well.

When the ABUs started rolling out, its design and some of the regs around it written to do away with bullshit people were doing with the BDU in an effort to make a lower maintenance uniform. The arm creases were prohibited, unit patches were gone, suede boots can't be shined. Funny thing is that towards the end of my enlistment, people started doing the same shit again.

>>35061746
to be fair, the Air Force is the worst offender. AFI 36-2903 gets updated pretty much every year with a significant update ever 2-3 years.

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>>35061746
>cross-draw

>>35057958
I was in Afghanistan(USArmy Aviation) when MARSOC first went deployed. Bunch of slack jawed faggots thinking they were CowaDoody characters. Constantly needing my birds to come and pull their asses out of the fire.

>>35061751
>Funny thing is that towards the end of my enlistment, people started doing the same shit again.
My grandfather was a marine in/during the Korean war. He had brown boots and they were required to polish them black. Same shit different century.

>>35048866
CADPAT and Finnish winter.

>>35052369
>steal another countries pattern
>change the colours and call it something else
>try to copyright it so others can't have it

Marine logic.

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>>35048866
Lithuanian M05

>>35062334
That...is not a pretty sight. Bad example anon.

>>35059853
air force are gay cunts

>>35062144
>>35052369
>the military having to obey copyright law
what the fuck

>>35063152
They do it for Velcro
We have to call it "hook and loop technology"
t. US Army

>>35063152
Yes a government agency has to follow copyright law, strange right?

>>35048782
Less hot? Please explain

>>35066061
I think he's talking about combat shirts which are issued almost accross the board for use with kit.

>>35048707
They were seen as a white privilege as BDU clearly stands for Black Dude Uoogahboohga.
Where as Multicam is like multicultural and more acceptable in todays society.

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>>35056124
That guy's Strichtarn test was pretty interesting, it worked in both summer and winter, now if only someone made the green/yellow of strichtarn in a disruptive pattern.

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>>35051087
The Coast Guard got something right.

>>35048866
Splinter

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>>35051087
Even the Marine Corps has enough common sense to let technicians and repairmen wear jumpsuits.

>>35068181
Who?

>>35053202
Kebabs?

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>>35068181

look at these plebs, not even posting the tucked-with-shorts combo

>we need to go back

>>35061781
Air Force is adopting OCP service wide very soon.

>>35048960
>Thoughts on MTP, I like it but it looks like a rip off of Multicam, maybe a bit more green.

It's a bespoke pattern, designed by the guys who designed Multicam but to be uniquely british by taking the 'shapes and forms' of DPM and applying the multicam colour palette.

So it's a variant, not a ripoff. Works almost seamlessly with regular Multicam.

>>35058763
lrn2sew buttons you fucking boot.

>>35068281
army got rid of all the one piece jumpsuits for 2 piece uniforms that look more like the ACU.

File: 1497718724457.jpg (15KB, 236x419px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 236x419px

>>35071158

Its a trade-off, our uniforms have buttons, which I like because like you said repair is easy, but for combat situations, unzipping might be easier to remove blouse if checking for wounds, not eerybody carries trauma shears, and knifing someones shirt can be bad, but zippers are hard to fix, and unless you have a spare zipper or a sewing machine lying around, you may end up with a fuckd uniform.

>>35048879
Those are really old styled ones that had the velcro on the sleeve cuffs, I've only seen one person that still has one of those older styled ucp uniforms. The last gen ones before the real new ones where they shrunk the shoulder pockets were the best. Buttons on the cuffs, nice amount of room in the shoulder pockets, the ones with zippers on the shoulder shrunk a bit. I don't think the entire UCP should be getting retired entirely but the new OCP isn't bad patterned off the current 'new' ucp with the zipper shoulders.
>>35048960
>Generally, it has too much white
It doesn't have any white, those super bright uniforms are just ones that never got dirty and got washed a lot, washing it lightens it you can tell older 'nice', or rather nice as in 'I don't want to get this one too dirty' ucp uniforms because they get really bright and the tan color almost does look like an off shade of white from being washed so many times.

>>35049087
>We just need to accept that we need two different uniform standards for different theaters of combat.

logistic nightmare

that would suck so many balls