how much/far are soldiers expected to walk/march in a day

>>35042927
Till they get where they need to go
See: Ranger Mile

depends on the mission, why?

id say 20-30km is average

>>35042927
Depends when, where and why, 12 miles is a stroll in the park for most troops.

>>35042927
Depends on METT-TC. Not gunna go stomping around if area is saturated with enemy. Farthest is prob 20 miles in a tactical environment due to time constraints related to moving tactically.

>>35042927
Which day?

>>35042937
>35042937
>ranger mile

I googled it nothing came up but the magadishu mile

>>35042927

as far as they need to go

>>35043001
Tuesday

>>35042927
As others mentioned, highly dependent on mission/goal.

If you mean pure capabilities, 12-20 miles for anyone in combat arms.

Rangers and other specialized infantry further.

More selective special operations outfits even further.

If you get into the rare glimpse of what it takes to even get to the true selection and assessment phase of a group like CAG/Delta, those guys spend weeks doing nothing but navigating hundreds of miles on their own over shitty terrain...all to get to the point where their skills, abilities and intelligence truly gets measured...once the initial nav entry phase ends nobody outside of that group has much of an idea of what they endure.

How likely is it to end up with fucked knees and back after a few years of doing this?

>>35043212
unlikely while you are still young, maybe some random injury and you will just get a little rest and walk again. You will feel it in your 50s and past though

>>35043071
this, i know a sof who had been on a navigation exercise where they walked almost 600km with a hand drawn map

>>35043212
I did 8 years in the Infantry and while my back is strong my knees are fucked, people that served longer than me are surviving on painkillers and insanity,

>>35043231
cos of all the killing they did?

Does everyone have to ruck march with heavy gear? I heard navy seals carry lighter loadouts during missions then other groups,how true is this?

>>35042927
Much and far.

>>35043341
Complete bullshit. Ruck and gear weight is entirely mission dependent. In Iraq we would go out and I'd have my usual gear plus a maybe 30 pound "assault" pack. In Afghanistan I've been on movements where I was loaded down with the usual gear and about 75 pounds worth of ruck.

If your mission is longer duration you are going to be hauling more. If your mission requires lots of specialized gear, you are going to be hauling more. If your mission is landing on or near the X and getting right the fuck back out, you are going to packing light.

>>35043327
Because of the walking.

>>35043341
its all relative, depends on mission

lighter loudouts fpr sof might easily be +30kgs

ive heard of sof carrying 80kg backpacks

for us 'mortals' its usually around 25kg/60lbs, much of it ammo and water so the weight decreases the more you use

>>35043411
What's the heaviest anyone will be expected to carry?

>>35043543
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w846UcmIo5o

>>35043601
>open video
>hes wearing his shoulder pad things
Alright, they are milking the weight for real here. Nobody goes out wearing those.

>>35043543
If you are carrying a saw or 240 you can expect to haul 100-120 lbs total, sometimes more from time to time. Why are you so concerned with exact weight?

>>35043392
walking gives you ptsd?

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>>35043703
thats fucking ridiculous. What the fuck is wrong with the american military leadership? Is every single fucking soldier a casualty?

Total insanity. Serious, LIFE LASTING INJURY OCCURS AT 50 OR MORE POUNDS.

All I see is how badass soldiers are for carrying 80+ lb rucksacks, why don't they put (disabling osteoarthritis and bonespurs not pictures) in parenthesis. Because that's what happens. Shit like this just makes me mad. You guys get paid fucking pennies too. 1600 a month to fuck up your body for the rest of your life? I make more than that flipping burgers at mcdonalds.

>>35043858
well thr training the money costs a lot of money so pay is where the money is cut

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>>35043858
American people, government, and military leadership do not give an angstrom of a fuck about their grunts. 4 years of infantry will fuck up your entire life. Nobody should do it.

http://www.npr.org/2011/04/10/134421473/weight-of-war-soldiers-heavy-gear-packs-on-pain

This motherfucker had bonespurs at TWENTY FIVE

He will be in critical, disabling pain for the rest of his life, and since they are on the vertebrae, there's nothing doctors can do. Any surgery will be extremely risky and may paralyze him. US Soldiers are not badass. They are slaves. You know that Marine Motto "Pain is weakness leaving the body?"

It should be more like. "Pain is weakness leaving the body, unless its a repetetive motion injury or bone spurs"

>>35044009
you know in retrospect this makes perfect sense why knights in medieval times would have a bunch of squires, often just to carry around all their shit during wartime.

maybe women and diversity recruitment n shit is actually a good thing, just assign them as squires to muhreens and they can carry shit around and do squire stuff I dunno

>>35043858
Some people don't give a fuck. You also get to live the life of a modern technoviking, assuming it is wartime. Are you just now realizing grunts are expendable assets like ordnance? Wake up anon.

>>35042927
Soldiers don't walk, they march

It's like walking but for Frenchaboos

>>35044090
Too bad carrying heavy loads is the physical activity female soldiers struggle most with

>>35044090
A young squire may be mostly a servant of a knight. Carrying shit, cleaning the equipment, and so on. He won't be carrying any greater loads on account of his age, but knights are cavalry, you have fucking horses to help you here.

An older quire would be fighting alongside the knights, for every intent and purpose beyond the title being one of them, and with his own retainers. Knighting opportunities could be few and far between, and there could be a lot of political bullshit involved in who got chosen.

>>35043543
Most ive seen (not US) is somewhere around 120kg, which was ranger mortar guys. Their squad hauled a 12cm mortar and ammunition, although arguably, they didnt go very far.

>>35042927

Enough to where their knees and backs are fucked by their 50's

>>35050436
>wanted to join army rangers and SF
>dont want fucked knees
Fuck i think I'll finish up my degree and consider going for pilot instead

>>35043858
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/05/29/army-chief-milley-us-army-risk-tens-thousands-soldiers-action-20000-permanent-undeployables/

>>35043774

Humping heavy shit sucks. It sucks more when you are humping said shit for 10 miles within three hours. 85 pound rucks plus your gear and weapon system(s) for 10 miles at a decent walking pace sucks.

Remembering them also sucks.

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>>35050673
>>35043858
In Vietnam a guy would go into the jungle on a mission with his M1 steel helmet, fatigues, boots, rifle, Alice web gear and an Alice pack filled with ammo, water and chow. Socks and poncho, poncho liner were often brought. All told MAYBE ~60lbs. Not because of the "human target" aspect of modern anti insurgent war , that's just what you're wearing on your Kevlar without backpack. WarfAre used to be about fire and maneuver. The extra weight guys bring into are forcing guys out at the cyclic rate. The Army / USMC of course will never have a moment and say, "am I retarded? Are we over weighing our troops? Should we listen to H John Poole and emphaise minimalism and teach proper field craft?" Anyway, We are going to be in a world of hurt if/when we battle an enemy (china, NK, Iran or whatever) that actually knows how to use supporting arms and H.E. shells. That will nullify heavy armor etc. by what do I know?

>>35051002
Now because of the human target...*

>>35047474
>>35044090
I always said we need to go back to fucking swords and shields.
Fuck this gay ass gun shite.

>>35051002
This is several different things.

>used to be about fire and maneuver
Near-peer war still is. Cordon and airstrike is a result of COIN.

>muh way of the ninja and field craft for better maneuver
Right problem, wrong answer. Foot-mobiles can only go so fast, and they have to carry a lot of shit regardless. The solution is more mechanized forces with heavy support weapons and diesel engines.

>>35051002
In Vietnam soldiers did not need to carry spare batteries. They did not need to carry ladders, or breaching equipment, or a wide array of communications equipment per man, or multiple optics, or tools, or many other things.

What you're doing is comparing a modern marching order (or whatever the US call it) with a 50 year old fighting order. If you compare a modern fighting order with the Vietnam era one, the big difference weight difference is down to the armour.

>Are we over weighing our troops?
Yes, but not whilst fighting. The method of getting there is the issue.

Lots of factors involved. Temperature, weather, landscape.

In Camp Pendleton they somehow managed to make us hike up hill both ways. In Bridgeport it was up mountain in the snow and snowstorms, which could be a crawl. Sometimes you're hiking in the mud. It's always a shit show one way or the other.

It's not like throwing your gear on and walking around in a parking lot. But in good weather, you can go pretty damn far once your body is trained to that.

>>35043035

Naw, Tuesday's no good. How about Thursday?

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>>35051105
>Near-peer war still is. Cordon and airstrike is a result of COIN
Precisely, and we shouldn't be in those conflicts. They are by definition, unwinable.
> The solution is more mechanized forces with heavy support weapons and Diesel engines
Yeah in flat open country with a great infrastructure otherwise, you're hoofing it. Feet are always default answer and vehicles don't clear emplacements.
>>35051144
They had explosives but little MOUT want as prevalent. Oddly enough, too much gear is actually MOST cumbersome and tiring in cities.
>What you're doing is comparing a modern marching order (or whatever the US call it) with a 50 year old fighting order
Principles haven't changed and neither has kit and weapons (besides armor again.)

>>35043005
same difference

>>35042944
>depends on the mission

This.

We did everything from 20K movements on road and cross country to 30 milers.

It just depends on the mission.

>>35043231
Most of the knee problems come from running slow as fuck on hardball roads while doing unit PT at platoon level and above.

>>35051344
>Yeah in flat open country with a great infrastructure
And rolling terrain, European forests, towns, basically everything that isn't old world jungle, dense city, or mountains, and vehicles still play a role in those.

>vehicles don't clear emplacements
Yeah, they do in every war fought after 1980. By HE if it's far away or on the second story+ or if they just feel like it that day, by knocking down the gate or wall in urban terrain to disgorge infantry, or by doing doughnuts on your 1970s era sandbags and trenches and then suppressing with 25mm and 7.62 while the infantry get out the back.

> neither has kit and weapons
what are optics, designators, nightvision, thermals, ESM, modern AT weapons, enough water for desert areas....

>>35043858
>LIFE LASTING INJURY OCCURS AT 50 OR MORE POUNDS.

No, it doesn't.

I jumped, rucked, and ran all over this rock, and a 50 lb ruck is at the low-range of a typical training ruck, and NOT some kind of "crippling" load.

>>35051002
She really did have a phenomenal ass.

>>35051144
>In Vietnam soldiers did not need to carry...

Yes they did.

While they did missions where they would just do daily helicopter resupplys, there were also missions where they wanted to maintain a more covert presence, and that meant humping more special equipment and rations. And then there's the LRP's, LRRP's, SEALS, and other dudes that would do small team patrols with NO resupply options, requiring them to hump all their shit on their backs.

>>35043774
No but being 35 and surviving on 800mg doses of pain killers everyday just to function kinda screw with you.
>Hey lets go surfing
>can't bad knees
>lets go bike riding
>can't band ankles
>lets go play laser tag
>can't bad hips
>lets go rock climbing
>can't bad back

>>35052685
Would proper stretching and warm up help to reduce the risk?

>>35052863
Not him but yes and no. In most branches you do warm up stretches before working out, but that has its limits. Especially when most of your marching and a lot of the jogging is on pavement. That's what really gets you.

>>35052854
really is it really that bad


my dad was in the army he's like over 60 years old and still walks for miles

he's fat but still healthy he did have liquid in the knee but he's still healthy

>>35053033
I only did four years but I had Gunnery Sergeants that had been in 15+ that ate painkillers like M&Ms to get through their day.

>>35042927
> joining the army and not the marines

lmfao who the fuck cares how long the pussies walk?

>>35052863
No, because it's not about muscle, it's about the transmission of force.

Slow unit formation runs of 8 mins per mile and slower don't allow most runners to properly stretch out their legs to the front, or rear, and this imparts more shock and force directly to their knee joints as a result. Combine slow-ass formation runs on hardball, and you have a recipe for how to grind away the knee joints of a human being over time, especially for the heavier guys.

Running at speeds that allow you to properly stretch out your legs actually shifts the angle of force so that your muscles help absorb more of the impact. That's why units that do squad PT and actually make their guys run instead of jogging around like bitches have fewer joint issues over time.

Don't believe me? Try running in place for 10 minutes on hardball and then do a quickie 10 minute run. That's about the difference between formation "running" and real running.

>>35042927
>how much/far are soldiers expected to walk/march in a day
Circumference of the Earth.

>>35053280
So the best bet is to be light weight huh? Keep below 190lb maybe?

>>35053472

Being lighter helps, but your best bet is being in a decent unit that appreciates running at squad level instead of dumb ass trainee-tier unit formation runs. That means SOF, LRS, or at least airborne infantry, as all of those units usually do squad PT and below, and rarely do the pogue-ass formation runs of the support fags.

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>>35052706
>Yeah, they do in every war fought after 1980.
They always send in grunts to clear things
>what are optics, designators, nightvision, thermals, ESM, modern AT weapons, enough water for desert areas....
They had versions of literally of all these in Vietnam they were just better about tempering handing them out to every single private or lance coolie

>>35043212
Depends, but yeah. Alot of the infantry related roles end up with some form of disability from all the ruck/walking. Doing 20 miles with up to 100 sometimes over 100lbs on your body puts serious stress on you.

>>35056036
Is it likely to happen on an initial 4 yr enlistment?

>>35056156
Depends man some people get med discharged at basic because their body can't handle it other people do 10+ years with no major injuries

>>35052712
Can occur. No doctor will tell you hiking with more than 50 pounds is safe. Sure you can do it but its bad for the body in the long run. It doesnt "build you up."

>>35056383
>>35056156
>>35056036

If you have flat feet you are fucked. They'll let you in now because they need people but it will fuck you up for life.

>>35056418
absolutely no proofs of "flat feet" being more prone to injury or problems.

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>>35056425
You're fucking retarded. They didnt deny 25% of people applying for something with no proof of injury. They did it because it will fuck your feet up. However now boots have arches in them, and they're desperate for people, so its easy to get a waiver.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pronation_of_the_foot#Overpronation

https://www.runnersworld.com/pronation
http://www.sportsinjuryclinic.net/sport-injuries/foot-heel-pain/overpronation

>>35056425
Google over-pronation you dumb fuck

>>35056425
hurrr durrr hurr

http://www.webmd.com/pain-management/what-are-fallen-arches

Your recruiter lied to you and you're going to be seriously hurt in boot camp or during your 4 years of active duty. Good luck.

>>35056444
>>35056447
>>35056452
although pronation may have an effect on certain injuries, it is not the only factor influencing their development.

Three studies of military recruits have shown no evidence of later increased injury, or foot problems, due to flat feet, in a population of people who reach military service age without prior foot problems.

Studies analyzing the correlation between flat feet and physical injury in soldiers have been inconclusive, but none suggests that flat feet are an impediment, at least in soldiers who reached the age of military recruitment without prior foot problems. Instead, in this population, there is a suggestion of more injury in high arched feet. A 2005 study of Royal Australian Air Force recruits that tracked the recruits over the course of their basic training found that neither flat feet nor high arched feet had any impact on physical functioning, injury rates or foot health. If anything, there was a tendency for those with flat feet to have fewer injuries. Another study of 295 Israel Defense Forces recruits found that those with high arches suffered almost four times as many stress fractures as those with the lowest arches. A later study of 449 U.S. Navy special warfare trainees found no significant difference in the incidence of stress fractures among sailors and Marines with different arch heights.

>>35056452
>>35056471
and the sources.


Esterman A, Pilotto L (July 2005). "Foot shape and its effect on functioning in Royal Australian Air Force recruits. Part 1: Prospective cohort study". Military Medicine. 170 (6): 623–28. PMID 16130646.

Giladi M, Milgrom C, Stein M, et al. "The low arch, a protective factor in stress fractures: a prospective study of 295 military recruits". Orthop Rev 1985; 14:82–84.

Jones, Bruce H.; Thacker, Stephen B.; Gilchrist, Julie; Kimsey, Jr., C. Dexter; Sosin, Daniel (2002). "Prevention of Lower Extremity Stress Fractures in Athletes and Soldiers: A Systematic Review". Epidemiologic Reviews. 24 (2): 228–47. PMID 12762095. doi:10.1093/epirev/mxf011.

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>>35056471

>What are you talking about? Boot camp and military service did not cause your injuries. These were pre existing conditions and thus tricare cannot cover them. Just look at these studies showing flat feet has no effect on injuries. Get out of my office before I report you for fraudulent enlistment.

>>35042927
>sacci with NLAW on top
Usch, looks like shit to carry. That kind of loads are really much better to carry with old school external frame packs.

>>35043543
My country's SOF guys carried over 100 kg backpacks in Afghanistan in some situations. Alot of that weight was water

>>35053229
how do those crayons taste boot

>>35056666
read the same, danish sof, they carry insane amount of weight of mostly water for 2-3km to and observation point

>>35043858
Something you have to realise is biologically men are dispensable, which means no cares nor do they have to.

>>35056410
>No doctor will tell you hiking with more than 50 pounds is safe.

Sure they will, especially the ones that actually know what the fuck they're talking about.

How many soldiers have you trained to hump rucks? Let me guess, NONE. I've raised all kinds of men from private to NCO, and humping a ruck is a pain in the ass, but it's nothing that a fit young man can't handle.

Hell, 3rd world women hump more than 50 pounds of water / wood to their hovels on pretty much a daily basis.

Get the fuck out of here with your bullshit.

>>35053066
yeah he was a platoon sargent when he left as well

he's still healthy

>>35061767
you know what's bad for your health getting killed from having no ammo since you were told by some guy on 4chan to pack less than 50 and ran out of ammo at the worst time

>>35042927
alright so that's not blackface, it's not eye black, I'm pretty sure it's not shoe polish, what exactly is on their faces?

>>35043699
My unit always went out in full PPE, so I don't think he's milking it at all anon

>>35061943
Face paint, green and black.

>>35043601
>leaf

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>>35053229
Shut the fuck up, I bet you're not even a fucking boot, probably some faggot poolee

>>35052712
Genetics. Also how old are you?, I can guarantee that you will hit a wall around 45. Everybody does.
If you live until 80 that is 35 years of remembering every day how much did you walk when you were young.

>>35061767
>How many soldiers have you trained to hump rucks? Let me guess, NONE. I've raised all kinds of men from private to NCO, and humping a ruck is a pain in the ass, but it's nothing that a fit young man can't handle.

>A young man is the same than an old man
How many of the people you trained have you seen after their 30´s?

>>35062034
So you've trained NONE, haven't even humped a ruck for a living, and yet you're some kind of "expert".

Thought so.

We're done here.

>>35062012
>I can guarantee that you will hit a wall around 45.

That's funny, all the senior NCO's I've known over the years that actually maintained some kind of PT regimen were still fit and able to log miles after they retired.

>>35061990
thanks
is it for camouflage or something else? is that one guy supposed to just have streaks or has it worn off?

>>35062069
Out of sight, out of mind. No symptoms when I see them, no problems. Now get me another batch of young meat for the grinder.

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>>35062089
>is it for camouflage or something else?

>>35053598
> they were just better about tempering handing them out to every single private or lance coolie

That's not better. It's worse. People with thermals will rape a NODS-only unit which will rape a few-NODS unit.

>>35062089
How fucking inept are you?

>>35062131
well I don't know how this shit works, I've only ever seen it in a few pictures
so yeah it's camouflage, I thought so

>>35062089
ROFL

Hey neverserved, here's how it works: when you sweat, the salty water coming out of your skin washes off stuff on your skin.

>>35061943
Remember kids, the next time you're arguing about tactical operations it might be with an anon who doesn't know what face paint is.

>>35062168
But my team leader told me it was camouflage gnomes that harvested your face cammie while you slept?

>>35042927

In one day? Up to 18 miles. Within a 6 hour window. Have to arrive ready to fight/dig in.

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>>35043858

Jesus, thanks for the concern, but no one made me sign up for it. I wanted to learn how move, shoot, communicate and kill.

Thanks though?

>>35052781
i recommend acceptable loss for this subject, he describes everything he carries and talks about re supply airdrops. Chicken hawk also describes dropping supplies from the perspective of the pilot in many cases it was vital because of the infantry prioritizing more important kit for the mission. The start of Dear Mom also has a sketch of his normal kit without any extra mission critical kit.

>>35062069
would you politely answer the question please

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>>35051239

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>>35043858
>LIFE LASTING INJURY OCCURS AT 50 OR MORE POUNDS
I guess I'm some sort of superhuman then.

>>35051002
That image makes me feel awful every time I see it, because it's clearly awful but it makes me chuckle and does turn me on. It's like ten levels of post-irony where the guy may as well have actually made that image sincerely.

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>>35067429

I wonder how many civilian hikers know that humping more than 50 pounds will result in a "life lasting injury"....

>>35068540
Probably not many but then again civilians rarely need to carry that much. Also it's completely untrue, so there's that.

>>35043858
>LIFE LASTING INJURY OCCURS AT 50 OR MORE POUNDS.
Man, I don't know how I missed that I blew out my knees in high school.

>>35068567

But Dr. Anon says it's true, so you know it must be....

>>35068567
>then again civilians rarely need to carry that much
Except backpackers, which carry that much recreationally.

>>35068605
At least over here backpackers prefer more minimalist rucks and less weight but yes, some do carry that much and more. From what I've seen, they still seem to be a minority.