Level IV vs 5.56

>>35035155
why would they? ifit changes SOP will change to maybe mag dump center mass or 3 round burst center mass for high speed units.

>>35035155
No because first contact breaks the plate and the ammo is eventually going to be lead free or some bullshit in the future. Also chinese metal.

>>35035155
My city SWAT team uses MP-7s, and famously got into a sustained firefight with a man with an SKS a few years back. Despite all the lessons learned (namely lack of penetration through light cover), the majority of officers still stuck with MP-7s because the light recoil allows for a 3-5rd burst to the head to be a practical SOP. Room clearing really is the only place SMGs make sense, so going to headshot wouldn't be a huge leap for "elite" units, if it isn't SOP already.

>>35035155
just get a bigger gun lol

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>>35035187
As an alernative to 3 round bursts, which basically gives you 10 'shots' per mag. Might they use 308 accelerator with saboted m955 projectiles, to have 20 shots in a FAL or m14

>>35035271
LEOfag here, issued an M&P 2.0 and a Rem 870 for the truck, allowed to buy an AR from a certain list of approved manufacturers. S&W obviously on the list. Ask my chief if I can get an M&P-10 in 308. He says "I don't see why not". Brought that thing into like 10 house calls (DV and shots fired, every time) in the last two months alone. We find LOTS of guys with plates these days. When someone says "I called da cops on yo ass", they get some plates then start recording for Wiiiiiiirl Staaaaaaaarrrr.

>>35035267
That gunfight should have been a wakeup call. Accurate fire that could penetrate concrete could have saved lives in that engagement.

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>>35035287
>3 round bursts of puny peashooters are equivalent to one 308 round
This is what 7.62 fags honestly believe.

>>35035380
Hindsight is always 20/20. Honestly, a patrol officer with a 12ga w/ slugs would have ended the engagement, but SOP is SOP and a firefight isn't a great time to try new things.

>>35035355
Detroit? Philly?

>>35035644
> 308 accelerator with saboted m955
Maybe you should learn to read?

>>35035860
>ackshuaally
Would you call an M1 Abrams M829 round 27mm or 120mm?

>>35036145
Would you call .38 special 38 or 357?

>>35035211
>No because first contact breaks the plate
multi-hit capability has been a standard requirement for a whole decade now. Also, no steel in IV plates, or if there is, it's the back-plate.

>>35036175
>being this obtuse

A round does not equal a projectile you retard. A round is used with a given bore diameter. See .50 SLAP. It's not called a .30 cal round - it's called a .50 cal round that uses a .30 cal projectile, hence the .50 nomenclature when referring to it.

>>35036223
Then what bore diameter does a 357 magnum have?

>>35035860
Perhaps you should both know what you're talking about AND spell/type it correctly.

There is no M955. There is an M995, which is the designation for the 5.56 AP round (the complete round, not the bullet), so even if you'd typed the correct numbers you'd still be technically wrong.

Also, the US has a .308 SLAP round in inventory already that uses a tungsten dart instead of steel. Yes it will go through any wearable body armor, as well as most AFV/IFV/APC's made (which is what it was specifically designed for--to be able to punch through the armor on a BMP-3 when fired from an M60 machinegun at extended ranges).

>>35036209
Multi hit capability is the same as Swat level IV getting defeated by multiple varmint .223 rounds from a drug dealer.

>>35035155
Unlikely. Even in 08, the smarter hajis were going for lower torso and upper leg shots, below the plate. Gut shots are nasty, but the real prize for them was the femoral artery.

Head shots are an all-or-nothing chance, and with a real helmet, contact isn't guaranteed to be effective.

>>35036269
Protip: Not .357.

>>35036269
A .357 magnum round doesn't have a bore.

>>35036175
>what is a cartridge that was based on a heeled bullet for 500, Alex.

>>35036379
>being this obtuse
The discussion started with >>35035644 who says (correctly) that 3 5.56 is better than 1 308. But that only applies to ordinary 308 rounds and the type described by >>35035287 would be superior to 5.56

>>35036223
But .50 SLAP has a sabot on it, otherwise the bullet would fall out or not seat.

>>35035824
One of the larger cities in Colorado. Made national news. Shooter was a white guy, so...

>>35036288
But .308 SLAP don't feed so good. Is it possible to downsize the Raufoss to a .308 round size while still being cost effective?

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>>35035355
Is this true?
Fuck.
Like steel level III plates or level IV ceramics?

>>35036571
I still don't get it.

>>35036425
That's exactly why .38 special which is based off of a cartridge that used heeled bullets where the bullet had a stepped diameter has a different nomenclature compared to bore diameter.

>no really if you just make it so much mo betta then at some point 1 round will be better than 3
Only in super niche cases where you would have to a priori know that you are going to need it specifically for soldiers who are not going to have the luxury of just planning around body armor and actually planning ONLY to shoot the body armor, then it would be better. In real life people are just going to shoot multiple rounds at a bad guy until he goes down anyways, in which case the so called efficiency of having 1 round that does penetrate gets wasted. In cases where we are using 7.62 already like M240's and M110's, sure issue some rounds to them as a portion of their combat load, but for the dudes who are using 5.56 it won't be worthwhile to arm them with 7.62 rifles (which the original person I responded to suggested.)

>>35036519
So does the 308 accelerator; my point being you should call it a 308 round.

>>35035155
Hips and groin dude.

https://youtu.be/gE9qooFUqsk

>>35037884
They laughed when people said "eggshot" is gonna be a thing

>>35036295
In the OP context of room clearing, bleed out isn't what you want. Achmed wants it because he's taking pot shots and fucking off behind a wall, but if you're in the same room you want the bad guy dropped hard.

>>35035267
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/04/11/planned-parenthood-shooter-happy-his-attack/32579921/

This guy? Did his ghetto coin collector armor work?

>>35035267
Diverse weapon loadouts has it's advantages. MP-7s are good for indoors fighting but sometimes you want a big .30 cal rifle.

>>35035644
Actually, 3 penetrating hits with 9mm is actually more lethal than a .308. The .308 is going to overpenetrate no matter what you do so the actual damage done per hit is fractional.