Custer's Last Stand

Custer was very, very overconfident and didn't listen to his scouts. Dividing his force was also a huge mistake.

>>35033414
A lot

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>>35033414
didn't bring enough custer for everybody :^)

>>35033414
He had fucked up so often and succeeded through skill and daring that he had no reason not to try it again, is the best way I can put it.

>>35033414
He didn't expect the Indians to actually fight, as they would run any other time he had tried to engage them.
He also had Gatling guns available to him, but turned them down to stay more mobile.
>b-but Custer was an idiot
No, he wasn't. His actions at Gettysburg won the battle, if not the war. Considering he was fighting against masterful cavalry commanders like JEB Stuart during the war and was able to beat them, I'd say he was quite competent.
>b-but he was a showoff
So? Quite a few commanders of the era were, especially cavalry commanders.

>>35033414
he got served a proper dosage of karma

>>35033414
Be me. Drag my wife all over West Point cemetery looking for Custer's grave. She figures I really must love the guy. Finally find it. Curse him and spit on his grave. She is convinced I'm crazy.

210 guys fought 30,000 indians armed with repeating rifles at close range.

>>35033459

Just like Germany

Ignored his scouts reports that there was a massive hostile indian presence ahead. Decided it was no big deal.

Decided to split his force in half to try and cover more ground and attempt to seek and destroy this enemy force. Decided each half could effectively crush the enemy if they encountered them.

While the other half of his forces was navigating around hours away from him, his own half found the indians by running directly cock first into their trap. Didnt have enough men to hold them off. Too far away to send for reinforcements in time. VASTLY outnumbered, just like the scouts reported - but since he ignored them and didnt take them seriously he got all his men and himself killed.

His force was encircled and wiped out and he died attempting to flee like a little terrified cunt. He willfully chose the wrong move again and again and again and paid the iron price, all because he was arrogant rather than being cautious and following his training.

He was remembered for dying heroically, simply because telling the public the US army got defeated by indians all because they had a stupid cunt as a commander wasnt exactly palpable. Forensic evidence uncovered within the last few decades found that his death was far less then heroic - he died fleeing rather than fighting.

>>35033487

>Be me.

Are you ever not you?

>>35033487
I'd do that to Churchill's if he wasn't on holy ground.
Drunken fat fuck caused everything bad that happened in the 20th century to happen.

>>35033575

only during the full moon when I turn into my spirit animal

>>35033588
I would have pissed on it if it wasn't two o'clock in the afternoon during graduation week.

>>35033487
Its under a big tree

>>35033588
Communism.

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>>35033554
you left out the best part.

The other half of his contingent arrived on the horizon in time to see the banner man getting chopped down by injuns with hatchets. The leader of the element, a known hater of Custer, sounded the withdraw.

The Army beefed up the size of Cav elements after that, as well.

>>35033629
>Be Churchill
>Send a commie sympathizer to oversee America's nuclear weapons program
Churchill caused communism.

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>>35033630

Can I save this picture?

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>>35033414
Benteen forgot to bring the packs.

>>35033683

Benteen did bring the packs. He just decided to bring them to Reno rather than Custer.

>After giving orders to mount, dismount and mount again, Reno told his men, "All those who wish to make their escape follow me," and led a disorderly rout across the river toward the bluffs on the other side. The retreat was immediately disrupted by Cheyenne attacks at close quarters. Later Reno reported that three officers and 29 troopers had been killed during the retreat and subsequent fording of the river. Another officer and 13–18 men were missing. Most of these missing men were left behind in the timber, although many eventually rejoined the detachment. Reno's hasty retreat may have been precipitated by the death of Reno's Arikara scout Bloody Knife, who had been shot in the head as he sat on his horse next to Reno, his blood and brains splattering the side of Reno's face.

>Atop the bluffs, known today as Reno Hill, Reno's shaken troops were joined by Captain Benteen's column (Companies D, H and K), arriving from the south. This force had been on a lateral scouting mission when it had been summoned by Custer's messenger, Italian bugler John Martin (Giovanni Martini) with the handwritten message "Benteen. Come on, Big Village, Be quick, Bring packs. P.S. Bring Packs.".

Custer got cucked hard.

>>35033433
The thread could have ended here.

Custer did nothing wrong

>>35033414
Custer was a manlet

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Irony: 7th Cavalry's two most famous battles have been Little Bighorn and Ia Drang Valley, and the two are almost photo negatives of each other. For one thing, the flamboyant Custer and the quiet, modest Hal Moore couldn't possibly have been any different as leaders. This, of course, explains a lot about the outcome of the two battles. Ia Drang could easily have been a complete disaster, but it wasn't. Moore was a careful, studious, cautious soldier; he planned for the worst at Ia Drang, and when he got it, he was as ready as he could have been. Custer ignored his scouts and charged in, figuring a combination of his genuine skill and his infamous luck would save him if anything went wrong. Both had served him well in the past in a lot of bad situations, but both were bound to fail him eventually.

>>35034576
What happened at la Drang?

>>35035436
"Broken arrow, broken arrow!"

>>35033476
>Custer was good
Didn't he have an absurd causality rate? Something around 75-90%? Because then you aren't competent, your just fucking lucky that you have support.

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>>35033476
>His actions at Gettysburg won the battle, if not the war.

Lol what? Gouverneur K. Warren and Joshua Chamberlain would like a word with you.

>>35035465

Isn't broken arrow codeword for stolen nuke?

>>35033414
The Indian force that defeated him was well-organized and armed with modern firearms but he was still acting like they were savages with spears and bows.

>>35035645
Gooks in the wire.

>>35034372
Prove it, faggot

>>35035645
It is now, back then it was the command for firing napalm on your own position should you be over run.

>>35033504
Try 3000.

>>35035675
its both

all those goddamn indians

>>35035627
Based.as.fuck

>>35035664
They used both to great effect. Custer did text book maneuver on last stand hill. Take highest ground, kill horses to make breastwork. Indians went to bow and arrow and rained arrows down
into breastwork.

>>35035436
At landing zone X-Ray Hal Moore and the 7th Cav held off wave upon wave of NVA and inflicted massive casualties by sticking together and not panicking. Of course at LZ Albany it was something similar to Little Bighorn. Read We Were Soldiers.

>>35035813
Not quite right. It meant an American unit was in danger of being overrun, bring in all the fucking CAS you have available. And they did.

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>>35035436
Seriously? That movie is pretty much /k/ required viewing.

>>35035921
PREPARE TO DEFEND YOURSELVES

WAR OF NORTHERN AGGRESSION

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>>35035992
>WAR OF NORTHERN AGGRESSION
WAR OF NORTHERN (VIETNAMESE) AGGRESSION

They should have brought the tank.

>>35036050
There was a Twilight Zone episode where they damn near did.

>>35036043
yeah except the Southerner's actually wo...... wait a second.......


well shit.

>>35036069
I'm so glad somebody got it, even if it was you, Phil.

>>35033414
Calling it his last stand couldn't have been good for morale.

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>>35036149

WE WUZ INDIANZ AND SHEEITT

>>35033414
he lost

>>35033588
Now, now, Churchill didn't deliberately intervene in a civil war he had no business touching leading to a collapse of a democratic government into the hell that is Communism. Not to mention causing a Soviet paranoia that lasted almost a century. Unlike that fucking dipshit pacifist Wilson. God, why couldn't we get TR again?

Custer, on the other hand, was just an overconfident asshat. I live fifteen minutes from the Battlefield. The man had every opportunity and resource to win. He wasted or overlooked all of them.

AND ANY DECENT GENERAL LISTENS TO FUCKING RECON GIVEN HIM BY LOYAL SCOUTS.

The amount of 19D posting here is rediculous.

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>>35035627
Sit down boy.

>When your single cavalry division holds against massively overwhelming odds so the union can have the leisure of fighting defensively from the high ground.

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>>35033554
I bet Custer's last stand looked like that one chapter in Blood Meridian where the Comanche Indians slaughter the Filibusters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyT1J3ib5qM

>>35033414
he proceeded too quickly
did not w8 for the slower parts of the supply train
ran out of ammo

underestimated size of the village
ignored warnings about the sun dance

did not know the topography of the area
failed to cross the river in time to abduct the women and children

split up and lost command of troops
used outdated tactics and weapons
poor skirmishing ability

>>35036690
19D?

>>35038100
Cavalry scout. >>35038100

>>35033414
To be fair, he eventually got his revenge.
https://youtu.be/XCGm62Bcl1Y

>>35038372
Goddamn it anon

>>35037370
Damn, fair enough. Can we at least agree that Custer was small-time at Gettysburg, or will this forever tear us apart, anon?

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>What went wrong
How about the fact the majority of the army was armed with 1873 Trapdoor Springfields and lack of gatling guns?

>>35034017
>Custer got cucked hard.

Cuckster?

>>35036640
>the Kerensky government totally would have been fine if Wilson didn't fuck with it

lol nah, Kerensky was a flamboyant dipshit and the Russian Provisional Government was doomed, if Lenin didn't knock it over it would have been someone even worse

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>>35033414
This.

>>35040630
>it would have been someone even worse

>you will never live in a world where Baron Ungern brutally establishes a massive esoteric Eurasian khanate and start a Pol Pot-style purge to create the perfect horde

We live in the worst timeline.

>>35033487
Sweet fuck, man, learn to greentext.

>>35041079
>>35039281
Nope. Modern archaeology ruggests that the jam rate for the army's rifles at LBH was maybe 3% or 4% at most. "Muh jamming Springfield" is one of the oldest fuddmemes out there.

>>35041496
Per shot or overall?
Also is there a good sauce?

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>>35035813
>It is now

>Not posting a source.

>>35041509
http://www.guns.com/2011/05/03/american-myths-did-custers-trooper-use-the-wrong-guns/

>Jasmer said recent studies of spent cartridges found and collected on the Little Big Horn Battlefield do not indicate that large numbers of the Springfield rifles carried by Custer’s men jammed because of defective ammunition.

>“We’ve looked at the cartridge cases and less than 2 percent were jams,” he said. ‘We have thousands of shells collected."

>>35041496
The problem isn't that Trapdoor Springfields "jammed," the problem is that he was using them to begin with. His weapons were outdated. A cavalry unit by that period should have been equipped with repeaters of some kind and should have had gatlings.

>>35035436
>be on /k/
>don't know about Ia Drang
Study up, this shit is important

>>35033414
The Natives had better rifles and Custer left his gatling guns behind and then divided his forces like a moron.

Custer was incredibly incompetent and quite possibly an actual retard.

At least in part because of the Trapdoor Springfield: the M14 of the 19th Century.

>>35033554
You are totally ignorant on the subject. As a archaeologist who has studied the artifacts and the reports on the research I can say without question you are an idiot making shit up.

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WHY DIDNT THE ARMY WANT LEVER GUNS WHYYY

>>35042180
Because it's hard to work the action while prone. That's pretty much it.

>>35033414
George Armstrong Custer

>>35042190
Bullshit. All you need to do is tilt it to the side.

The Army didn't adopt lever actions for a number of reasons:
>they had a metric fuckton of leftover springfield muskets from the Civil War, so it was vastly cheaper to just convert them into trapdoors
>the US Army was small but very spread out, and logistics needed to cover hundreds of miles of wilderness with pack animals to resupply remote outposts, meaning the less parts a rifle had the better
>US Ordnance was (and still is) run by idiots

>>35042190
This isn't really applicable to cavalry though.

>>35040630
>worse than Lennin
no.

>>35033414
He raped the shaw too many times.

>>35042228
What about the whole spitzer bullet/tubular magazine thing?

>>35042627
People put way more stock in that than they really should. It *has* happened, but it's extremely rare and more a problem with the ammunition than the design. Heck, people have actively tried to replicate it in the modern day and failed, because modern ammunition has much more consistent primers.

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>>35036149

>>35036043
>Starts as a civil war in the South
>USA can't help but stick their dick in it
>USA starts bombing North Vietnam because 'murica can't into COIN
>Somehow this is Northern aggression

>>35035992
WAR OF SOUTHERN BETRAYAL

>>35042676
>Starts as a civil war in the South

What is this, 1968? The communists won, they now openly admit that "local rebels" was a lie.

>Spokesmen against American involvement in Vietnam said that the Viet Cong was a nationalist insurgency indigenous to the South.[84] They claimed that Viet Cong was composed of several parties: People's Revolutionary Party, the Democratic Party and the Radical Socialist Party[2] and that NLF Chairman Nguyễn Hữu Thọ was not a communist.[85]

>Anti-communists counter that the Viet Cong was merely a front for Hanoi.[84] They say some statements issued by communist leaders in the 1980s and 1990s suggest that southern communist forces were influenced by Hanoi.[84] According to the memoirs of Trần Văn Trà, the Viet Cong's top commander and PRG defense minister, he followed orders issued by the "Military Commission of the Party Central Committee" in Hanoi, which in turn implemented resolutions of the Politburo.[nb 8] Trà himself was deputy chief of staff for the PAVN before being assigned to the South.[86] The official Vietnamese history of the war states that, "The Liberation Army of South Vietnam [Viet Cong] is a part of the People's Army of Vietnam".[6]

>>35035465
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13kdMg9E9aI

>>35035436
A single battalion being flown in piecemeal to a small LZ with minimal cover at the base of a mountain that a whole NVA division was camped on. It's a goddamn miracle Col Moore was an amazing leader, because by all rights they should have been killed to a man.

>>35033414
The Indians didn't think he was an idiot. Basically, the problem was that the Indians stayed and fought, which he absolutely wasn't expecting. His recent experience had been that they would try to flee at the first sign of the cavalry, so he wanted to box them in as quickly as possible. That's why he split his force, as well as why he left the Gatlings behind - they would have massively slowed down his column.

Another big, gigantic problem that virtually no one mentions is the pretty appalling accuracy of rifle fire of the 7th Cavalry, and the Army in general in the 19th century. Indian accounts talk of when Reno's section attacked the village of bullets striking the tops of tepees - and not a whole bunch of bullets actually striking Indians. Despite all the shots fired by the 7th Cavalry, very few actually hit Indians throughout the battle.

My guesses as to why the Americans were such bad shots would be that they got virtually no practice time or ammunition, that ammunition was scarce on the frontier anyway, that the 1873's sights are really more for target shooting than for combat, that the rainbow trajectory of .45-70 probably didn't help, and that volley fire decreases accuracy.

>>35041496
It wasn't the jamming. It was the rate of fire that these could put out as opposed to repeating rifles, or even bows and arrows.

>>35033414
he was a rapist and a very bad man i wonder if the world will think americans were evil in the future

>>35033459
he was a coward saw the film made by steven sipleberg

when he was about to lose he got all the women to march in front of him so the indians would not attack then he would sell the women or rape them to death

>>35044106
>>35044115
This is pretty lazy bait tbqh phamicom

>>35033414

not enough dakka

>>35034017
custers a rapist dude he's didn't get cucked one bit lol

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>>35033476

>Custer not an idiot

Graduated last in his class in west point.

Your post is post graduate level trolling. Well done.

>>35044129
shut up american you just love the rape and you are evil enjoy your stay in hell

>>35034017
Cuckster the ultimate cuck.
> illiterate native Americans
>Live in teepees
>Still manage to cuck Cuckster

>>35044246
>facebook-tier trolling
You know you have to be 18 to post on 4chan, right?

They had trapdoor rifles while the injuns had repeater rifles.

>>35033414
worse than hitler