How did they determine who would be among the first to climb

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Did they send the condemned to storm the walls first?

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this guy

A lot of the time young knights/officers with a desire to prove themselves would volunteer themselves and their men for such duties. Completing an escalade and surviving meant some serious glory.

>>34985289

This.

Most of these suicidal things were usually seen as a way to promote yourself, specially if you were royalty.

The entire thing was thought in a way to make some fool do it with a smile on his face.

>>34985289
>>34985407
This chivalry thing is a complete myth-revisionist history. Just like American cowboys "first draw" nonsense and agreeing to a shootout at noon.

Please educate yourselves beyond what you see on television and movies.

>>34985713
shut the fuck up you cunt

>>34985713
Not among the nobility it wasn't. It was a sort of martial cult.

Also, the law of arms was followed pretty universally. It was the ROE of the day.

>>34985713
It's not even necessarily about chivalry. You see this shit across almost any culture. There's always some Gung ho, borderline crazy people willing to do shit like this so they can be perceived as bad ass.

Beyond the volunteers, I imagine if you're in an army and you get told to do something, chances are you're going to do it. Especially if you're at the front of a huge army there isn't really a way to turn back around or you'll get trampled.

>>34985946
>borderline crazy people willing to do shit like this so they can be perceived as bad ass.

you are a bad ass if you climb that ladder first without shitting yourself

>>34985289
bullshit.
no officer or knight would climb the walls.it was job for foot soldiers. they were recruited, what at the time was more like to be forced to fight. at the field all foot soldiers were equally disposable and the ones closest at hand would do any task the officers needed.
climbing the walls was one of the shittiest jobs at the siege, odds of survival were really bad, and getting boiling oil and molten lead on the face were real

>>34985946
climbing the walls were not the chance to shine, it was cannon fodder job.those who wanted to shine would do it on the battle field or then after they breached the walls. nobody cares about the anonymous peasant foot soldier littering the walls with his corpse. also to be fair,Medieval European armies were not much about merit, so if you were too low on the ranks nothing what you did would even be noticed. was hard AF to climb ranks if you were not a noble.

>>34984975
>family on both sides have always been total plebs as far back as the records can show
>tfw still a pleb family
>I'm an ultra pleb
>if I had existed then, I'd have been considered worthless and muh lord wouldn't have cared if I got boiling tar poured on me

Feels bad man.

>>34987228
well, it was shitty. most male expected to die before 30 and stuff

>>34987211
they offered cash prizes to the first men up the ladders

>>34987168
Tactics change every battle senpai

>Ottoman siege of Constantinople
Peasants in first, errybody else second

>Crusades
other way around

>>34987256
that could have happened once or twice, and some coppers would be thrown to appease the rabble, but honestly the first at the ladder would die most of the times anyway and is not like anyone had a option, they were put in lines to climb the ladder and the one who tried to back down or stop would be stab in the back and so on.
it was a class society, and it reflected on the armed forces. it was peasants/commoners, then mercenaries, then infantry and then squires and knights who were nobles... peasants would be the foot men and be spend in the shitty jobs as the cheapest and least important resources

>>34987307
>>Crusades
>other way around
go back to renaissance fair

>>34987256
>hey the first at the ladders get a silver!
>get shinny coin
>be first at ladders
>be killed
>coin is plundered of your corpse and given back to your officer
>"HEY GUYS, FIRST GUY AT THE LADDER GETS A SILVER!"
same coin would change hands a lot in a day....

>>34987346
>taking spoils on poorly defended cities
>surplus of knights in Europe
>breaking sieges with espionage
>consistently using peasants in first
Pick one

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>>34987256
This.

>>34987382
Only get paid after, m8.

>>34987396
there is no such thing as "surplus of knights" when it comes down to climb a defended wall. it was pretty damn gruesome, maybe the worst part of the job, a real meat grinder.
also, you know how expensive knights were at the time?

>>34987417
so they would die without ever getting paid so it was even better

>>34987429
Expensive enough that counts were murdering eachother on a daily basis, so the pope created a coalition so they'd fuck off and die.

>>34987438
That's how war works.

I see you guys are those romantic types who picture it all to be cool and shinny knights doing cool shinny stuff.

>>34985946
Rare cases of extreme bravery with a hint of stupidity and luck. Nothing more.

>>34985857
Showmanship to exemplify their status, and pomposity but often rarely practiced.

>>34985818
Fuck your mother, you ignorant dirtbag

>>34985713
There's a point where a person knows just enough to think they know everything, while not realizing they're a complete moron. You're at that point.

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Tell me lads, how did they determine who would be among the first to climb the ladders?

>>34987496
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH3-Gt7mgyM

>>34987496

Maybe it's just me, but this seems worse than storming a castle.

>>34987334
You seem really intent on pushing this "they were forced to" narrative when it really isn't the case.

It takes a lot of time and resources for an investiture. If the time is right for an assault, it means the attackers have figured that they have a good chance of winning, i.e. the defenders are weakened by hunger/disease/lack of water/etc.
Soldiers who are forced to fight don't fight well, it makes no sense to put them at the top of the ladders if you actually want to win. Most assaults aren't the fucking battle of Helm's Deep, the defenders usually don't fight to the last man on top of the walls, they break and flee since they're hungry and sick and most importantly they get fucking nothing if they win but they might live if they run. The attacks know this, the first men on the ladders know this.
If you want to WIN, you have motivated people lead the assault. The first few men were guaranteed money, loot, promotions, penance from some disgrace or prior offense, whatever after the battle. Men often volunteered for these positions because they knew that if an assault was happening, risking their lives was worth whatever they wanted to gain.

In fact by the way you say "some coppers would be thrown to appease the rabble", makes it sound like you're some cunt who just finished watching games of thrones and you came here to geek out about how brutal medieval combat was.

>>34987382
You get paid AFTER the battle you dumbass. >>34987438
The troops don't get hit with an instant death ray once they reach the top or else siege assaults would never work historically.

for those who are interested in medieval warfare, "Wolfsmund" is pretty good, author did some great research and art

>>34987245
I guess it's mildly comforting to know I would have been in Scandinavia if I magically traded places with an ancestor from 700 years ago, that while it sucked for everybody for the most part then, at least Nordic peoples were at least somewhat fair to their own in general.

>>34987522
Really? Statistically you'd have a higher chance of dying in WWI, but at least you get shot or something, rather than get boiling oil thrown on you.

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>>34987596
oh hello mustard gas

>>34987636
I still would rather take my chances in no man's land than almost definitely get pushed off a 30 foot ladder after being stabbed if I somehow miraculously made it to the top.

>>34987546
you having difficulty to understand that conscript peasant foot soldiers weren't the same as professional infantry, be it mercenary or not. we are talking about the bottom of the barrel here

>>34987668
You're having difficult understanding that you don't take "conscript foot soldiers" with you on an investiture and subsequent assault
Liege levies were free men and yes although they were peasants, but it's very likely that they've been called up before and they would know somewhat what they're doing.

You seem to have a Monty Python view of what a peasant is.

>>34987571
I have some German ancestors.
I would be fucked up the arse big time

>>34987708
According to family legend my Norwegian side come from berserker stock. So that's what I'd be doing until the Valkyries take me home to Valhalla.

>>34987707
and you have been in one too many renascencense fairs
well I see our views will not change,arguing about it would be only a waste of time, specially because we are not discussing one specific siege, war, location or even period of the medieval era

>>34987429
Do you know how retarded you're making yourself look?

>>34987508
Who's the tall officer with the long face?

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>>34984975
You don't assault walls when you are likely to lose, typically the defenders are outnumbered, maybe starving, maybe diseased, maybe low on morale, and have been getting by shot by giant rocks and rotting carcasses all day. As a person in the medieval times you get very few opportunities to move up in life and in the middle of a battle you aren't always thinking straight especially when your lord is telling you all of the above (maybe lying) and you have god on your side. If the city is conquered that day this is one of few if any moments where you can gain significant wealth or prestige and if you aren't one of the first guys into the city you will miss your chance to grab anything not nailed down, take an important noble hostage, or rape a nice looking tavern wench or nun before all the other boys have had their turn with her. If you stay outside the walls you are just sitting there waiting to get shot by arrows, have your head caved in with a rock, or get burned alive by hot oil, and maybe your ladder got setup somewhere that is poorly defended. So you take a big gulp, forget you could very likely die and hope the archers behind you have your back because goddammit you might be able to have your own farm someday and maybe your grandchildren will be knights or squires.

If all of that fails you could always just stab the bloke who refuses to go up, but peer pressure/herd mentality is a hell of a thing and if you accidentally find yourself at the front of the line or everyone else in front of you are busy dealing with all the arrows lodged in their throats and shoulder joints you are probably going to just keep moving forward.

Didn't they try to sneak men up ladders under the cover of night to try and open the gate or something?

Trying to clamber over walls when men on the other side know they're climbing seems wasteful and stupid.

>>34984975
Look up what the "forlorn hope" was in the context of a siege. It was a grim job, but it absolutely was not the medieval equivalent of a soviet penal battalion. There were serious material and social incentives offered for all participants who survived, which was an extremely attractive prospect in a society where social mobility was normally nonexistent.

>>34987790
>>34987868
Trying to explain this to the kind of autist who'll just come back with a, "well ACKTSHUALEE," because he thinks medieval armies are just like AoE II with only raw stats and no human factor is a wasted effort.

>>34987931
you sounding kinda autistic yourself, once no one contested anything yet

>>34987943
Yeah? Did you not read the thread?

>>34985713
>>34987168
>>34987211
>>34987334
>>34987479
>>34987668

>>34987975
that was before, not after the posts you highlighted.
can you at least try to wait till someone try to rebut before going all "REEEEEEEE IM TRIGGERED"?
shit son, you kinda too angry at a 4 Am thread about people climbing ladders

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>>34984975
Send in the Swadian Knights! You always send in the Swadian Knights. It's common sense!

>>34988031
Read the posts I replied to. They aren't addressing anything in the OP, but are refuting most of what is in the posts I quoted. Context nigga, use it.
>4AM
West Coast is best coast.

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>>34987975
A lot of people like to assume medieval nobility are evil Saturday cartoon villains who's only motivation was to keep the peasants in line and that the only classes of people that existed in the middle ages were Nobles, knights, and and dirty peasants with no spectrum or blurry lines between and that moving even a little in the hierarchy from your birth was impossible.

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>>34988040
Nah senpai, Knights AND Huscarls.

>>34988057
I like where this is going.

>>34985818
not an argument.

>>34985973
*Shitting on the guy's head beneath you

This is only slightly related as I can't find a medieval thread on /k/.

What was the common european medieval soldiers 'kit' or weaponry. Were swords that much better then everything else that most armies were just swordsmen and archers and some cavalry? It seems odd that fantasy takes such inspiration from medieval ages but you never really see a different depiction besides swords.

>>34984975
It was all about who wanted it most. In some campaigns it would be the nobility who were most eager to take the spoils of the city and thus wanted to be first in, in others it might the foot soldiers, for even more it might be the mercenaries.

Poor Irish kersn were very commonly used by the English to storm castles because they were eager to stab some fucker in the neck and steal everything they could.

>>34988089
My army (percentages are approximate)
>My Lieutenants
>30% Knights
>20% Huscarls
>20% Khergit Veteran Horse Archers
>20% Various foot archers like Rhodok/Swadian/Sarranid Sharpshooters/Master Archers
>9% Prisoners I free from rival lords or bandits
>4 Sword Sisters, for diversity
Calradia shall be whole again. An army of Calradia for Calradia.

>>34988165
Spears were by far the most common weapon used throughout history before firearms. As for their individual kit, it only has one example of the late medieval period, but it should be of interest.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-one/11011316/Military-kit-through-the-ages-from-the-Battle-of-Hastings-to-Helmand.html

>>34988057
>>34988040
God I remember M&B

Having a two handed pole axe and just going over head swings non stop killing 500+ men repeat but no time to rinse, my character becomes entirely tinted in red.

>>34988174
How do you stop them from deserting?

I am at war with the Rhodoks and I want to recruit some of their Spears. But they keep leaving no matter how many fights we win.

>>34988165
Depends on the time and place. In the ancient world spears were considered to be the 'main' armament for most cultures, with short swords as a 'backup' weapon, but the Romans changed that by introducing the gladius. Late Roman warfare introduced the 'spatha' which was essentially a longer sword and was a sort of predecessor to medieval swords.

Early medieval warfare was dominated by small groups of heavily armed knights who formed the core of the army along with a larger levy of peasants who would mainly be responsible for all the uglier jobs of warfare. The knights used a sword as their main weapon and a lance or spear for when they were charging. The peasants were typically armed with spears and shields because they were cheap.

As the medieval age progressed the balance shifted and levies were replaced with mercenaries and more professional soldiers who could equip themselves better. Crossbows become more common as does better armour so the kinds of weapons a footsoldier uses go beyond spears and swords into the terrain of maces and halberds. Swords retained their status as a weapon though, and if you had the privilege of wearing a weapon at some time or place you would typically wear a sword and not a mace. Meanwhile in many places swords were banned from being allowed in the hands of peasants, so those peasants responded by making really big knives to carry around.

Fantasy goes with swords because it's not that far from the truth, but they're also very lazy. For example the 'studded leather' from dungeons and dragons came about because someone saw a brigandine (a coat with plates of metal riveted to the inside) and assumed that the rivets were the armour.

>>34987596
> rather than get boiling oil thrown on you.

Or getting a giant bowling ball on your gut.

https://youtu.be/u3ZoVLnSo_g

>>34987245
That is also largely a myth, the lower average survival age was down to the massive amount of baby, infant and child death skewing the numbers. If you lived past 12, chances are you'd live into your 60's

>>34988247
They keep moving in front of that chute. You'd think the crushed bodies of the 3 guys before would have been a clue.

>>34988197
>>34988226


Ah ok, so generally middle-medieval ages were heavy armor, crossbows, swords and maybe a halberd or spear? I guess I wanted to see if there existed militaries where the brunt of their soldiers were carrying maces or axes. The height of my medieval army knowledge is mostly from medieval 2 total war.

>>34987661
>hasnt read All quiet on the western front

>>34984975
Why don't they just push the ladders away from the wall with a pole?

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>>34988225
Deserters are free to follow their moral compass without fear of reprisal. Unless they choose to stand with an enemy army or turn to banditry, they will be treated as the situation demands. I am a just, merciful, and understanding Emperor.

>>34985713
Then explain where the Laws and Customs of War came from. Explain the thousands of lives being thrown away in this modern era right now out of some sort of ritualized need for "fair play". Chivalry is real because you can see the effects of it right now.

>>34988339
I have though.

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>>34987668
>peasant levies

The young roosters eager to show everyone how they're the most badass of motherfuckers can race to the ladders for the privilege.

You did raise the young of your warrior caste to seek glory above survival, right?

>>34988346
They may try that. A long ladder sitting with a decent slop is very heavy to push away though, especially with a few guys weighting it down. It'll also have to be pushed quite far before it falls away, so you may not have a suitable pole handy. The ladder may also have a hook or so at the top making things even harder, and there will be plenty of bullets, bolts and arrows zipping past as you try to work.

>>34988458
And more specifically you know damn well that veterans, even if proven not to be about to stand and fight to the bitter end, are a lot better troops than fresh recruits. So not turning a blind eye to things when they come looking for military employment would be a really stupid thing to do, especially since your opponents are.

>>34988040
Mein neger. My whole army would always be made up of Swadian knights. I liked to think of my army as the Guderian Panzer Group of the map.

>>34988053
you forgot the church and I'm pretty sure you never read a non-fictional book

>>34987771
Doctor WHO

>>34985946
The lengths some guys will go to get laid, AKA "male privilege".