Military units made up of criminals

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>>34982323

What we should really be asking ourselves is what would happen if a nine month pregnant Anne Frank mysteriously teleported into the middle of a Confederate Army camp of Louisiana Tigers?

Would they be courtly Southern gentlemen and take her to meet General Lee? Sing Bonnie Blue flag and Rose of Alabamy by the campfire with her? Share their sweet tea and hardtacks with her? Teach her to do the Rebel Yell?

>>34982323
Who said the Germans did anything wrong? The Dirlewanger division fought very well.

This is just stupid. Enlisting criminal scum, some times by offering them enlistment instead of doing time, is a tradition worldwide. British 19th and 18th century soldiers came partly straight from the gallows. Even today young british delinquents have that option. French Foreign Legion enlisters often have a criminal past. It works. Criminals make good soldiers because they can be whipped and kicked into obeying. Just, um, try not to make them Peacekeepers.

>>34982323

Oh, it's this old pasta again...

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>>34982323

>Where did we get it so right where the Krauts got it so wrong?

Leadership was the biggest difference.

Louisiana Tigers were under the direct command of Chatham Roberdeau Wheat, who was a veteran of both the Mexican-American War, filibustering in Cuba, and with Garibaldi in Italy. He knew how to keep them in line and harness their fighting skill to its fullest potential. Division-wise, the Tigers were commanded by Major General Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson, who was himself, a firm but effective disciplinarian.

Sturmbrigade Dirlewanger on the other hand was commanded by a convicted pedophile and rapist.

>>34982331

They'd probably be wondering how a pregnant German-speaking girl in strange clothes managed to sneak past the sentries.

>>34982363

This is pasta? I've never seen it before.

>>34982338

>suffer 200% casualties in a single battle and fail virtually all of their tactical objectives
>"they fought well"

>>34982488

Interesting painting. So about half the CSA soldiers at Shenandoah Valley were black, then? As well as most of the Union guys?

>>34982338
>Who said the Germans did anything wrong?

The record of bestial atrocities and bodycount of innocent civillians they managed to wrack up would say otherwise.

>The Dirlewanger division fought very well.

If you consider mass murdering 15,000 people and losing 92 to drunken friendly fire incidents, then sure, I guess they fought well.

>>34982323
why do you always make this thread? you just want to start shit with the spergs of 4chan

if you read into history (not your public school books) then you'll know

>>34982515

Most likely the manservant of one of the officers. It wasn't that uncommon for wealthier Confederate (and Southern Unionist) officers to have trusted slaves brought along to work in army camps, cooking, physical labor, building fortifications and so forth. Naturally, some found themselves serving in a combat role as the war dragged on.

>>34982604

>"After the door of the building was blown off we saw a daycare-full of small children, around 500; all with small hands in the air. Even Dirlewanger's own people called him a butcher; he ordered to kill them all. The shots were fired, but he requested his men to save the ammo and finish them off by rifle-butts and bayonets. Blood and brain matter flowed in streams down the stairs."

t. Mathias Schenck, a sapper in the Wehrmacht

>>34982604
>>34982657

Forgot the link

http://www.warsawuprising.com/witness/schenk.htm

>>34982604

> "collateral damage from bombing missions that every single other faction also did"
>the carpet bombing of Warsaw and Belgrade was collateral damage

>>34982657

Take a look at the faces on the painting. Either the deep tan was really in vogue or most of those on the ground are black. Some in CSA uniforms and some in Union ones. And they are strewn around an artillery position, as shown by the cannons and the arty officer. I knew the Union enlisted black men but not that the CSA had them in the combat line. It's not that I mind, I just am not used to seeing them in CW art.

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>>34982688

>Bombing Warsaw was a war crime
>But firebombing Dresden was okay because we did it and history is written by the victors.

Oh not you people again.

>>34982697
How about you post your sources then faggot

>>34982712

Sources of what? I have made no claims. I am asking someone who made a claim to give their proof.

>>34982697

Yeah, where's David Irving when we need him. Scholars who can be trusted.

>>34982704

When did I mention Dresden faggot and why are you searching for an excuse?

>>34982726

The nature of your post clearly implies you condemn Nazi bombings of civilian centers but excuse when the Allies did the same thing and more because "lol your side won."

Your kind have been shitting up our discussions for a long time and are very easy to spot.

>>34982741

>The nature of your post clearly implies you condemn Nazi bombings of civilian centers but excuse when the Allies did the same thing and more because "lol your side won."

Where have I even mentioned that faggot. Assumptions make you an ass.

And why are you deflecting?

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>>34982766

>Thread about the superior use of penal units by the CSA as compared to Germany
>REEEEE MUH ANTI-WHITE PROPAGANDA

German's aren't even white.

>>34982714
The sources you have that state the band of delinquents in the german army was actually competent

>>34982798

Nobody brought up the homocaust.

>>34982792

Not even that guy, but what the fuck do you mean Germans aren't white? Have you ever taken a single anthropology class?

>>34982808

>Not even that guy
>Hello my fellow anons

> Have you ever taken a single anthropology class?
>Being white is only genetics
>It's okay to act just as bad as African savages because you see I am a Pale man

>>34982753

You claimed that bombing Warsaw was a war crime. However the Allies bombed German civilian sectors as well, with Dresden being one poignant example.

It is fallacious to use carpet bombing as an example of a war crime since every side of the war did it extensively for no reason other than intimidation and Total War.

Oh look, this thread again. And exactly the same OP as last time too.

>>34982825

>Lol you magically stop being a certain race because my history classes tell me one side of a story

I cringe to think what it's like living your life.

>>34982831

>You claimed that bombing Warsaw was a war crime
Are you claiming it isn't?
>However the Allies bombed German civilian sectors as well, with Dresden being one poignant example.
And?

>It is fallacious to use carpet bombing as an example of a war crime
>Mass bombing of a civilian center with no strategic or tactical goal or use to that action isn't a war crime

>>34982848

>Are you claiming it isn't?
I am.

>Mass bombing of a civilian center with no strategic or tactical goal or use to that action isn't a war crime
Congratulations, if we are to take that statement to mean such an action is a war crime, then the Allies are guilty of war crimes. You proved my point for me.

>>34982843

>my history classes tell me one side of a story
>The burning of Rome didn't happen, German tribes were the good guys
>The 30 years war didn't happen, Germans were the good guys
>Austria and Germany didn't start WW1 and were the first to commit the atrocities of that war, they were the good guys.

>>34982860

>then the Allies are guilty of war crimes.
And?

Nigger I never mentioned the allies. Can you stop trying to act like some sort of victim and read what I post.

>>34982873

Fine, the bombing of Warsaw was not a war crime, and I claim it isn't because the Allies bombed civilian sectors for no other reason than casual brutality as well.

If everyone does it, it's not a war crime. Your rebuttal.

>>34982890

>If everyone does it, it's not a war crime.
>If everyone rapes then rapes is not a crime

That's not how anything works.

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>>34982890
>If everyone does it, it's not a war crime.
>This is what wheraboos actually believe

>>34982862

>>The burning of Rome didn't happen, German tribes were the good guys

>Implying that ancient Romans, ancient Germans, and ancient everybody else weren't all identical savages that committed savagery in different languages but otherwise behaved exactly the same.

>>The 30 years war didn't happen, Germans were the good guys
Breaking free of the Catholic cancer and the Papists getting jittery that someone had the gall to worship differently from them doesn't make Germany at fault you moron.

>>Austria and Germany didn't start WW1 and were the first to commit the atrocities of that war, they were the good guys.
Objectively false, Russia for all intents and purposes started WW1 by funding the assassination of Ferdinand, everybody else from Britain to Germany and the Ottomans joined the Serb/Austria shit-flinging through no good reason other than "muh treaties."


>>34982904
You are correct, that is absolutely a fallacy. And since you refuse to accept that fallacy, you must instead admit that means everyone committed war crimes and singling out the Germans for no other reason than because they lost is equally fallacious.

>>34982951

>all identical savages that committed savagery
Rome had indoor plumbing, Germans only had buildings made of wood and straw.

>Russia for all intents and purposes started WW1
HAHAH
> by funding the assassination of Ferdinand
HAHAHAH

>you must instead admit that means everyone committed war crimes and singling out the Germans for no other reason than because they lost is equally fallacious.

Nigger read the post again: >>34982688

Are you like a 1/14th German American?

>>34982951
>How DARE you point out the germans did something bad! Everyone did bad things! Stop picking on Germany!
>When the topic is the fucking Dirlewagner division

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>>34982890
Nigger, what?

>>34982795

You are showing me art I have never seen before. Amazing. I was not even aware that this kind of art was allowed at the time. There's at least four white guys being offed by black guys. Who was the artist and what side was he on? I thought neither side was particularly enthusiastic about black soldiers then, even if they enlisted them.

>>34982988

>French were the first to use poison gas.
>Tear Gas grenades are now the same as Chlorine Gas clouds.

Oh boy. Does someone have the "4 stages of a wheraboo" pic. I need to edit it but instead of Gorbels it's Vicky.

>>34982984
Ah, but remember, we need to cite /pol/-approved sources to show that Dirlewanger did anything wrong. =^)

Nazi apologists need to top themselves.

>>34983029

All forms of gas are classified the same under the Hague, moron.

>>34983063

>the Hague
The Hague also classes hollow points on gas attack tier.

If you find tear gas and chlorine gas the same for non legaleze reasons then something is wrong with you.

>>34983063
>Hague
>using old ass conventions to determine anything

>People produce trillions of dollars of entertainment media into products glorifying the indiscriminate extermination of German men, women, and children for bullshit that happened 70 years ago.
>Carry this genocidal mentality through the decades and reflect it in your movies, your video games, even your porn
>Claim to be different from the people you hate
>Act all hurt and surprised when ethnic Germans are suspicious and radicalize under a banner of self-preservation.

You people really are retarded.

Good thing I live in a country where my rights and my guns can protect me from people like you, no matter how much you fantasize about having me and my family killed.

>>34982331

Sex, and a lot of it.

>>34983116
>came into a thread spewing shit about the Dirlewanger division were all good boys who dindu nuffin' wrong.
>Get slapped down for being a nazi loving revisionist shit head.
>Suddenly YOU'RE the victim.

Man, you're suffering so much just like those 30,000 civilians that Dirlewagner had executed.

>>34983134

I'm not that guy, doofus.

>>34983116

>The German shrieks out in pain as he attacks you

>>34983116
Not history's fault that the Nazis made themselves such great enemies Hans.

>>34983116
hey man, its the truth that germans subhumans. Find me one war they won. Then find me a another. You can't.

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>>34983142

kek

>>34983164

Go be racist somewhere else.

>>34982904
That actually is how it works. If there is a social agreement something isnt a crime then it isnt a crime.

>>34983206

It's a legitimate question about how combat units nominally formed on the same basis could have polar opposite combat performances.

Also, answer my question >>34982331 damnit

>>34983186
Stop not being racist. It isnt going to save you should you encounter tyrone in the wild when you shout im not a racist. You are racist by virtue of not being black in their eyes already.

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>>34983186
The Allies should have targeted more civilian targets. By the time Dresden happened the Nazis have already committed dozens of unapologetic warcrimes against civilians.

>>34983219

Well then you have no excuse for me being equally intolerant and suspicious of people who want me exterminated for being German.

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>>34983245

>>34982697
No

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>>34983245
>people who want me exterminated for being German

Most of them are just /his/fags frustrated with /pol/ invading their board constantly

>>34983245
>The Germans actually exterminated people because of their heritage.
>German in 2017 is now afraid people are going to exterminate him because his great grand pappy showed up in Call of Duty :(

>>34983269
Fucking this. I'm here to drool over A E S T H E T I C guns and warships, not listen to some fuckwit tell me that the fucking Dirlewanger brigade, of all people, weren't all that bad.

>>34983353

Same, but AR-15s, rifled muskets, Iowa-class battleships, and pregnant Anne Frank

>>34982323
Says alot about being European vrs America.

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>>34983388
you can't waifu real people m8. that's just unhealthy

>>34983434

But she never existed. /pol/ said so and we all know /pol/ has never been deceitful or wrong about ANYTHING.*

*Happenings don't count

>>34982951
Cardinal Richelieu detected.

>>34982323
>murder, rape, arson and burglary

>adventurous wharf rats, thieves, and outcasts...and bad characters generally

>>34983409
I think they Germans already had "bad characters" at front before they decided to take the serious crimals too.

>>34982323

what difference does it make when both the nazis and confederates were losers

>>34983541

B-but muh shitty bait thread!

This thread is reminding me I need to stock up on more ammo. It's going to take a lot of bullets to have the Karut Menace eliminated once and for all.

What do we do with the kids though, /k/? Do we shoot them outright or do something else with them?

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>>34983541

One had exemplary combat performance and was a contributor to the near-success of the Confederacy, the other was an embarrassment by probably helped accelerate Germany's eventual defeat.

>>34983685

>Grey uniform
>Yankee

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>>34983625

Convert them to Judaism and turn the region once known as Germany into a second Israel.

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>>34983696
>Grey uniform

It's from a painting depicting Union forces at Shiloh

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>>34982323

>OP asks a legitimate question
>thread within one reply manages to devolve into a Wehraboo/pregnant Anne Frank fetishizing shitfest

>>34983206
>>34983263
Looks like you're the only one getting baited here

>>34984255

Yeah, we're having fun with this thread.

>>34982511
Each soldier was injured twice?

>>34984377

It means a lot of soldiers were killed or injured and transferred out of the unit, and then the replacements transferred in to take their place got killed/injured too.

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>>34982704
Krauts aren't even people so Dresden is not a war crime

How long before we see screenshots of this thread on that forchong facebook page?

>>34982704
>naziboo thinks the excessive bombing of one city is the worst war crime ever but claims the holocaust is an invention and every Nazi atrocity was just following orders

imagine my shawk

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>>34982515
>>34982693
are you blind and stupid? the only nigger in that photo is the one kneeling by the dead confederate. the rest are just tanned and convered in carbon from smoke and black powder.
do the people in my pic look like niggers? well thats because youre retarded and for some reason think shooting volleys of blackpowder, running through the smoke, and rubbing the sweat of your face with your shitty hands doesnt stain it with shit.

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>>34985292

Civil War reenactor here, can confirm this is true. The mucus in my nose literally turns black for at least 2-3 days after an event because I breathe all that shit in. It'll probably give me lung cancer or something 30-40 years down the line.

>>34985403

Assuming a heart attack or alcoholism doesn't kill me first.

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>>34982331

FPBP

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>>34982331

>"Oh hello there Mr. Confederate Man. What a silly uniform you have. You look like you just climbed out of bed with that night cap and pajamas hehehe. I loved watching you fight that Yankee hand-to-hand with an Arkansas toothpick. Will you be my friend? There's these big bad men dressed in black with funny helmets who want to hurt me and my baby. Won't you please protect me? I'll clean both your rifles and tuck you into bed if that helps."

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>>34986089
I never realized Anne Frank could get me this fucking hard

>>34982323
The first were a bunch of military criminals and failures hence "Sadistic morons"

The second were a bunch of pirates, thugs, and sailor gangsters who knew how to break skulls because they had too.

>>34982323
The Germans didn't use southerners.

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>>34986115

Think again

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>>34986144

This

All other answers are wrong.

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>>34986115
Have you no shame?

>>34985136
>The Nazis didn't even do it!
>But if they did it's just how you have to deal with it!
>Anyways America was worse

Come on anon.

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>>34982331
>>34986089
>>34986147
disgusting but interesting

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>>34986089

But will she read me excerpts from her diary as a bedtime story?

>>34983728
>>34983685
>Satchel, which no one else is wearing
>Seemingly being directed by the officer

He could just be a runner you know

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>>34986089
>>34986147
I never thought the day would come when I fap to Anne Frank

>>34986170
I do, but those milky bubbles drive me off the fucking edge, I have no power to resist

>>34982556
>The record of bestial atrocities and bodycount of innocent civillians they managed to wrack up would say otherwise.
All is fair in war. Civilians have a protected status ONLY if they are noncombatants. The Germans never killed civilians except in retaliation against partisan attacks.
>>34982556
>If you consider mass murdering 15,000 people and losing 92 to drunken friendly fire incidents, then sure, I guess they fought well.
Like I said, it's not murder in war. Killing people is what you're supposed to do in war.

>>34986169
Is that Ian "the one man train to Andersonville" McCollum on the right?

>>34986239

Not sure, take that hat off and we'll find out.

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>>34986324
>We can even sign each other's diares if you want

OH BOY

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ITT: Stormfags BTFO

>>34986221
>>34982604
The Wehraboo is strong in this thread.

>>34987419

Wehraboo faggotry is strong anywhere Germany is mentioned

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>>34987419
/k/ is Father Ted
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q95t2ulrXW4

We're not nazis, we just have a small collection of WWII weapons and reproductions that happen to mostly be related to the axis

>>34987720

I dunno, a some of these posters sound a lot like legit /pol/-tier Nazis

>>34986815
Neo Nazis need to fuck off from Southern Pride movements. Notice most Neo Nazis attending Charlottesville are from Ohio and Pennsylvania.

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>>34987735
>the guys who hate niggers, spics, gooks, Krauts, wops. yids, micks, commies, and statists equally who are currently jacking off to anne frank's heavily pregnant milky tits are all super evil nazis
where do you think you are?

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>>34987778

IIRC Dodge Challenger boy and the landwhale he flattened were both from Ohio.

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>>34987778
This is entirely anecdotal, but growing up in eastern PA I saw a lot of people that had never been further south than Philly that really wished they were southerners and a long history of white nationalist movements, both home grown and imported varieties.

>>34987778
>implying there's any functional difference between neo-nazis and white nationalists

tomato, tomahto

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I wish I was still pure.

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>>34988160

Confess your sins to the Lord and you shall be again in his eyes.

>>34987799
This. What a normiefied concept of "evil".

>>34985292
>>34985403

Stupid? Maybe. But I am not blind. And also I did Napoleonic reenactment for a decade. I know how red my musket gets after 60 shots in the heat of mock battle and I know how my skin gets from the black powder smoke. I also know how my facial structure does NOT change.

>>34985136
>whataboutism
Leave, wehraboo

>>34982323
What you're failing tp mention is that SS units, and the SS as a whole performed worse in combat than their Wermacht counterparts. Just because they were sadistic doesn't mean they did their ENTIRE job well, only a part of it. That being said SS were favored by the Nazi high command and always given the best equipment

>>34989138

No, that's oversimplifying things. Wehrmacht were by and large a conventional army, equipped in most respects with good gear by 1940 and well trained. They were also thoroughly trained before committed to duty. But most of them were not front line soldiers; in a regular division counting about 13 000 men only a couple of thousand at best were actually meant for the first line. They were also mostly conscripts.

An SS division was of similar size but created under very different conditions. The men were volunteers; the first real divisions raised were from men considered to be the finest in health, political views and racial heritage. The standards plummeted as the war progressed, especially as the man shortage got acute. There were also two other things of importance. One was that the training was only a fraction of the length spent on an average Wehrmacht soldier; it is best compared to early WW2 US Marines; a couple of weeks to push in the most vital knowlegde and nothing else - plus political indoctrination. The other item is that SS gear was at the start only what regular gear Wehrmacht had reluctantly parted with, then after a while once the conzentration camp work shops were running they made their own uniforms and other gear. About the only SS equipment that was different from Wehrmacht were the camo print, which may arguably have been better designed but made little actual difference since Wehrmacht camo was already good.

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>>34982704

REAP

THE

WHIRLWIND

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>>34982331
>>34986089
>>34986147
All of reality just closed down around me. Leaving me with an awkward boner and deep internal conflict.

>how in the everloving fuck did a thread about penal combatants turn into this?

>>34988240
>goes to Catholic church
>enters confessional
>"Father, I keep jacking off to pregnant Ann Frank"
>"you too?"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/209th_Detachment,_2325th_Group

>The unit was set up by the Chief of Korean Central Intelligence Agency (KCIA) on the orders of President Park Chung-hee to retaliate for the Blue House Raid on January 19, 1968. The Defense Ministry said the unit was a detachment of the ROK Air Force’s 2325th Group, which recruited 31 civilians, either petty criminals or unemployed youths who were promised money and jobs if they succeeded in their mission.

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>>34982323

Tigers' harsh discipline and training made up for their initial misfit ways.

The Dirlewanger Brigade on the other hand was a living example of an Ancap experiment gone awry. Discipline for infractions ranging from the petty (theft) to the most serious (rape, murder) was practically non-existent. Indeed, Dirlewanger Brigade soldiers were encouraged to commit acts that would've gotten them court-martialled in any other unit as an incentive to serve.

>>34989450

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_House_raid

How is it the North Koreans actually did it right by handpicking men based on their skill but the South Koreans literally just pulled a bunch of criminals and hobos of the streets for their attempt at it?

>>34989872
Norks actually practiced and had massive training from russian, chinese, and cuban special operations. Also they actually did pick the best of their units (as in they had vets from the war actually do the planning) and were slightly less indoctrinated than today's delusuons. Like when they chose to spare the farmers instead of dropping their dirty Sork Asses bodies in a cave. That wouldn't fly today. And the Norks still failed to reach their objective and splintered into various cells which did give a good accounting for themselves in terms of small infantry/terrorist tactics and even killed some americans too. And the one guy who survived became a fucking general too now.

Keep in mind the Sorks fucked up because they weren't picking the best for their mission with the criminals, and then treating said commandos like total shit while still giving them loads of tactical training. All of which backfired when the Sorks had ANOTHER commando raid loosed on them from a mutiny of their own creation.

>>34982825
>being white is only genetics
I mean yeah, actually. Ethnicity =/= nationality

>>34982792
>>34989410

Louisiana Tigers weren't really a penal unit. Assignment to the battalion wasn't a punishment. In fact, all of the original members were volunteers. Some of the recruits had criminal records but they all joined of their own volition. Not really comparable to the Dirlewanger Brigade who were recruited literally out of prisons and concentration camps.

>>34982331

*dies from Typhus again because disease runs rampant in Civil War military camps*

File: I have no division.jpg (47KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

47KB, 1280x720px

>>34991384

Goddamnit

>>34991384

Underrated

>>34982338

The unit was intended to be an an elite anti-partisan group consisting of poachers and outdoorsmen and wound up being cannon fodder sent into buy time for be bullet sponges for actually skilled German troops instead. It's safe to say the Dirlewanger Brigade failed to live up to its original expectations.