Mental health evaluation "license"

>>34979816
2a is the only argument needed

I will vote for it if the same test is administered at polling places as well.

define "mentally unfit"
also
>keeping a registry of gun owners
>nothing will come out of it guys, it's not like the government would ever confiscate your guns in times of civil unrest

>>34979824
Do you think that felons should be allowed to own guns?

>>34979830
I'm fine with them not owning guns. spoilers: they cant vote either

This is still a decent example of the slippery slope you can run into with mental health tests. If you don't want people to have guns then make them felons by reclassifying crimes, which has been happening more and more.

>>34979830
a lot of felons shouldn't even be kept alive tbqhwy

>>34979816
the same people who are attempting to disarm all civilians
are the same people whi would be in control of deciding what qualifies you as "mentally ill"
its a pseudo-science" that just makes up "conditions" out of thin air
and of course still ignore th real causes of social, cultural, economic and political problems that lead to "criminal violence"

>>34979836
So you are okay with mentally unfit people owning guns?

(just pretending to be a liberal)

>>34979848
>its a pseudo-science" that just makes up "conditions" out of thin air
So you don't think that Elliot Rodger and Dylan Roof had any mental problems?

>>34979816
Because mental health is a meme.

Soviet Union was very concerned about mental health of their people. They were so concerned that if you were exceptional they were finding various issues. All the "personality disorders" can be sources to those exact practices. Then they physically or chemically lobotomized them and this is how 2-3 generations of Russian geniuses ended up.

Tolstoy, Sikorsky, Peter the Great, Pavlov - those people aren't going to happen in Russia anymore - the genepool they were result of is simply gone after communism.

In summary do you believe that a profession and science that on one side caused the aforementioned destruction but they'll scream in pain if you'll raise the point of gender issues being mental disorder(which is something neurologists agree on) are trustworthy enough to check who should own guns and who shouldn't?

>>34979851
Mental illness is a spectrum. Define it for me please.

(no soundbite for you, FNN!)

>>34979874
>Define it for me please.
Everyone that want to buy a gun is mentally ill, jk

the professionals will have to decide that

>>34979816
Today's mentally ill person is tomorrows brave and progressive hero, today's mental health treatment is tomorrows barbaric torture and abuse

Psychiatry isn't a science, do you really trust your rights to people who have been continually wrong for decades on end?

>>34979816
Tell them you want the same test for anyone to vote.

>>34979816
because they'll limit it to only certain doctors, a group that will keep shrinking, until it's only a handful located in the major cities (e.g. prob libtards), will cost hundreds of dollars to visit, and will take a year to get in to see them. this is LITERALLY their plan.

>>34979924
So? You have to get a license to drive a car. Do you want mentally ill people to have a easier time to commit school shootings?

>>34979939
Peoples mental state can change over time though, how do you know someone who got the card ten years ago hasn't been slipping into mental illness?

And who's to say it would be once instead of annually or every five years?

>>34979924
Like the UK then.

>>34979830
Fact of the matter is, a lot of felons do own guns.

>>34979964
Good idea. If guns are so important to them they should have to renew their license every now and then

Asking 4chan about mental health is like asking about aids in a Ugandan whorehouse

>>34979978
Why would someone need a license to exercise a right?

I believe the UK requires people to obtain licenses to operate a vehicle, has that lowered the amount of vehicles used in crimes?

>>34979857
See
>>34979848
>still ignore the real causes of social, cultural, economic and political problems that lead to "criminal violence"

there are lots of reasons people are going batshit crazy in this world today. this myopic concentration on destroying the constitution does nothing but make the problem worse.

anti-gun rhetoric agenda is no where near addressing the causes of today's problems

Mentally ill people have lost god it's as simple as that

>>34979873
But I thought mental health people agreed that gender dysphoria was no longer a mental illness?

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Quick, liberal /k/, it's James Holmes! Pass some laws to stop him!

>>34979893
>the professionals will have to decide that

And who decides which professionals are qualified to make the call? The profession also covers a spectrum.

>>34979816

In New York you can't get a license to carry a pistol unless you can prove you "need" one.

How's that working out?

>>34979857
they did, due to abuse and heavy medication. not (((conditions)))

>>34979959
This is horrible bait, but I'll bite. First of all, your question is ambiguous; are you talking about restricting access to guns or to cars?

>>34979830
I've always felt that if society can't trust someone with a gun should we really allow them to walk the streets in the first place. In not saying felons should be allowed/unallowed I'm just saying since when can you get a fellony for releasing a helium birthday balloon in public and a 5 year plea bargain for a lesser murder charge. Is the guy with the balloons really unfit to possess a firearm? And is the murderer really fit to return to society?

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>>34979959
How's preventing those truck attacks go?

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Chapter 16

Tooru and The Beach

I'm about to apply for an FID in NJ. I previously got treated for depression on an outpatient basis by a pyschiatrist in NYC. Do I have to disclose this to the police if I was never considered a danger to myself or others? Will it come up in a background check release? I paid out of pocket, no insurance.

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>>34980074

I'm pretending to be a liberal

>>34980056
guns

>>34980068
I just want it to make it harder for people to commit mass shootings

>>34980076
nope

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>>34980081

>>34980084
then cut everyone's hands off

>>34980074
>>34980081
>>34980090
did you really get so triggered by this thread?

>>34980084
Do you have any evidence that your plan would help to prevent any mass shootings? Citation necessary.

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>>34980090

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>>34980103

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>>34980106

>>34980086
(26) Have you ever been attended, treated or observed by any doctor or psychiatrist or at any hospital or mental
institution on an inpatient or outpatient basis for any mental or psychiatric condition? If yes, give the name and location
of the doctor, psychiatrist, hospital or institution and the date(s) of such occurrence

Here's the text on the form

I'm worried about disclosing it because of bullshit fishing and I'm worried about not disclosing it for getting denied for falsification.

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>>34980117

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>>34980127

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>>34980144

>>34979816
Shall is the most important argument though. Gun ownership isn't something the government allows you to have. It is up to the government to prove its case. I am sympathetic to the idea of families being able to notify people that you are crazy tho.

One practical reason to be against it is that it can be easily abused. You can find a psychiatrist or psychologist who will always say someone is crazy or at risk. Also, then, it puts a big financial burden on people to spend money proving they aren't crazy. Also, being mentally incapable in one area doesn't mean someone will be violent. Jurors and judges may not understand the evidence and so on. It is a messy can of worms.

>>34979830
I'm actually becoming mixed on this. On one hand I think there are legitimately obvious reasons for felons to not be allowed to vote if they are violent felons and or repeat offenders.

But 2A is a right. If you have served your time you have served your time. It is one thing you say you can't own something while on parole, lets say you have 20 years and get on parole in 8 and they commute you later. You probably should be allowed to own guns and also get your voting rights back.

Also, not every felony should prohibit you from owning a gun. Felon for tax evasion or felony drug charges are different than robbery.

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>>34980148

>>34980119
sounds to me like you have to say yes.

You may be able to explain that and still get your gun. Misrepresenting this stuff on a form could actually result in legal action.

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>>34980162

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>>34980172
Fín

just make it the same test a woman needs to buy birth control or have an abortion.

>>34980074
What's the title of this?

>>34980016
Mandatory gun possession and carry act
Right to self defense act

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>>34980227
Miss Kobayashi Dragon Maid.
>>34980182
Chapter 17

Tooru and Comiket

>>34979893
That's the problem the other dude is pointing out though; this is a stupidly vague issue to define. Mental illness can range from psychosis to obsessive compulsive disorder. And it's very easy to diagnose someone who is "normal" as having some kind of illness.

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>>34980242

>>34980242
Sweet thanks, I like manga and anime but its hard for me to get interested in anything because so many of them seem too generic but this one kind of grabbed me

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>>34980253

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>>34980258
Read the Manga first. The anime isn't bad but it lacks a lot of the characterization of the manga.
>>34980259

>>34979816
>What are some arguments against being required to pass a mental health evaluation to be allowed to own guns?

Who performs the evaluation, what are the standards, what safeguards are there to keep it from being abused. What is the appeal process.

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>>34980270

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>>34980295

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>>34980300

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>>34980310

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>>34980314

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>>34980319

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>>34980324

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>>34980328

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>>34980334
Fìn

>>34979816
Guy, even the ACLU is against it.

>>34980119
DO
NOT
COMPLY

>>34980242
but where is tail?

Considering how politicized the idea of 'mental illness' going both ways can be, no. The definition of mental illnesses are so broad and varied, and the left wing in America seems hellbent on stopping as many people from owning guns as possible. There have been proposals made that would curtail gun ownership for those with mild anxiety, depression, or PTSD. Shit, people are going as far as labelling certain political beliefs (both on the right and the left) as mental illnesses.

If a person is not mentally sound enough to function without guns or tools without harming others, they shouldn't be among the general populace.

>>34980009
Amen

>>34979873
>Because mental health is a meme.
Isn't everything.

But...

>In summary do you believe that a profession and science that on one side caused the aforementioned destruction but they'll scream in pain if you'll raise the point of gender issues being mental disorder(which is something neurologists agree on) are trustworthy enough to check who should own guns and who shouldn't?
This I have to agree with.

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>>34980343
Chapter 18

Tooru and Super Powers

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>>34981987

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>>34982017

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>>34982053

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>>34982066

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>>34982074

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>>34982091

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>>34982118

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>>34982136

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>>34982148

>>34979816
The problem is as soon as you bring that in, you get people trying to fuck over gun owners.

I've known doctors who refuse to sign people off medically for firearm certificates because they don't want anyone owning guns.

>>34982156
mate, you sure you're dumping on the right board?

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>>34982174
Yup, sure am.
>>34982156

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>>34982195

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>>34982206
Fín

>>34982174
Shut up Tooru is cute.

>>34979829
>gun registry.
sounds like leaf-speak

>>34980000
QUADS OF TRUTH

>>34979816
As a psych, heres the flaws:

>Psychological tests are frequently wrong for cheap questionnaires, and easily fooled
>not enough licensed mental health professionals to do it even if the APA wanted too; the whole field is overwhelmed as it is because our time is monopolized by dual diagnosis borderline personality-opiate addicts
>professional opinions are subjective, do you want a 30 year old Cali soccermom shrink to develop the intake form that declares 3/4ths of men are "unfit"
>stripping of a constitutional right is immensly controversial in the field
>it would cost money to put in place
>The vast majority of Americans WILL experience a temporary mental illness like depression at some point in their life, it is unethical to say they are a danger to themselves or others afterwords
>appealing to have mandatory psychiatric holds expunged or legal difficulties expunged is already hard, let alone adding another dimension.
>Psychs dont like providing personal info to the state, and are obligated to keep it confidential barring a few exceptions.

There are plenty of reasons NOT to do it.

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>mental health test
>surgeon general or whoever decides that liking traps is a sign of mental illness
>100% of /k/ is now disqualified from owning firearms

>>34983693
>Psychological tests are frequently wrong for cheap questionnaires, and easily fooled

This. I just underwent one for a DHS position, and it's just questionnaires. Wow, it's pretty obvious which way to answer that would make you seem batshit versus which one is normal, although they cover a variety of conditions.

>>34983693
>>Psychological tests are frequently wrong for cheap questionnaires, and easily fooled
Wasn't there actually a case where some med students checked themselves into an institution for a paper, got diagnosed with various disorders, and were all placed into a hold for a while?

>>34983935
yes, they just signed themselves in and acted completely normally. most of them were diagnosed with disorders like schizophrenia. i believe one man got kept in for a month before the professor running the study was able to get him out.

>>34983744
yeah this I have depression and I've answered so many of those dumb questionnaires I can score anywhere from 1-20 depending on how badly I want the nurse to freak out with concern

>>34983935
sorry, i was wrong. they pretended to have auditory hallucinations to get in and THEN acted normally. their professor was also a participant in the experiment.

>Rosenhan's study was done in two parts. The first part involved the use of healthy associates or "pseudopatients" (three women and five men, including Rosenhan himself) who briefly feigned auditory hallucinations in an attempt to gain admission to 12 different psychiatric hospitals in five different states in various locations in the United States. All were admitted and diagnosed with psychiatric disorders. After admission, the pseudopatients acted normally and told staff that they felt fine and had no longer experienced any additional hallucinations. All were forced to admit to having a mental illness and had to agree to take antipsychotic drugs as a condition of their release. The average time that the patients spent in the hospital was 19 days. All but one were diagnosed with schizophrenia "in remission" before their release.

>The second part of his study involved an offended hospital administration challenging Rosenhan to send pseudopatients to its facility, whom its staff would then detect. Rosenhan agreed and in the following weeks out of 193 new patients the staff identified 41 as potential pseudopatients, with 19 of these receiving suspicion from at least one psychiatrist and one other staff member. In fact, Rosenhan had sent no pseudopatients to the hospital.

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>>34979816

>"Should the central government have even MORE power than they already have so they can take care of us?"

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>>34979816
>What are some arguments against being required to pass a mental health evaluation to be allowed to own guns
Something i didn't see mentioned yet:

Mentally ill people aren't more likely to commit violent crime, and are actually more likely to be victims of crimes than the general population.

- "Although studies suggest a link between mental illnesses and violence, the contribution of people with mental illnesses to overall rates of violence is small, and further, the magnitude of the relationship is greatly exaggerated in the minds of the general population (Institute of Medicine, 2006)."

- "…the vast majority of people who are violent do not suffer from mental illnesses (American Psychiatric Association, 1994)."

- "The absolute risk of violence among the mentally ill as a group is very small. . . only a small proportion of the violence in our society can be attributed to persons who are mentally ill (Mulvey, 1994)."

-"People with psychiatric disabilities are far more likely to be victims than perpetrators of violent crime (Appleby, et al., 2001). People with severe mental illnesses, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder or psychosis, are 2 ½ times more likely to be attacked, raped or mugged than the general population (Hiday, et al.,1999)."

Also pic related

Frankly, barring the basic SHALL NOT, the simple fact of the matter is that most people will meet the criteria for some mental illness at some point during their lives, and 15-20% meet them during any given year. Given this, arguing for mental health based gun control amounts to little more than a gun grabber tactic and the infringement of our basic rights on a preposterous scale.

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Chapter 19

Tooru and This Town

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>>34984212

>>34979816
>don't think the same things as the Party
>now "mentally unfit to own guns"
doubleplusgood!

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>>34984244

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>>34984274

>>34984002
>>34984048
This is the kind of thing that makes my faith in psychiatry drop like a rock. just ffs

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>>34984289

>>34983693
Thank you, great arguments and insights.

>>34979893
Most mental health professionals are leftist shits that hate guns.

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>>34984349

>>34984178
These were also great, thanks

>>34982174
The person dumping are mad that I made a thread about politics which is strictly against the rules

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>>34984370

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>>34984406

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>>34984471

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>>34984529

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>>34984548

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>>34984566

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>>34984574
Fín (not really, part 2 is next)

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>>34984589
Chapter 20

Tooru and Father

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>>34984655

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>>34984675

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>>34984691

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>>34984714

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>>34984729

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>>34984743

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>>34984806

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>>34984816

>>34979824
Do not post threads about gun control. They belong on /pol/.

Troll threads will be deleted, and those posting troll posts will be banned.

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>>34984846

>>34979857
when you can mathematically define the cause of a mental illness i'll stop considering it a pseudo science

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>>34984860

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>>34984884

>>34983740
It wouldn't be 100%. There's the actual traps too.

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>>34984900
Fín

>>34980084
>I just want it to make it harder for people to commit mass shootings

What is your reason? More specifically, what is your motivation?

>>34984872
Just out of curiosity how would you mathematically define a medical condition? Gangrene, for instance?

>>34980028
"may issue" is a major major infringement. the only reason we have the laws we do is niggers and mystery meat in the cities, combined with kike politicians. NYC ought to be regulated as a separate entity, or glassed entirely.

>>34979816
If you don't clean up your own shit then why should you even have a gun?

>>34982167
>I've known doctors who refuse to sign people off medically for firearm certificates because they don't want anyone owning guns.

That's discriminatory and could face legal repercussions.

>>34986475
It's the UK, cops don't give a fuck.

>>34984367
This, but theres a few of us psy/k/ologists and psy/k/iatrists left...

Besides, a lot of males get sick and tired of having patients flip out and attack people. Its just a natural male response to do SOMETHING that isnt just standing around waiting for security, and to be quite frank you get really impatient when you are dealing with fentanyl junkie #375929 who decides to start harassing your staff and following people to their cars. Half of them have weapons or dust on them anyway, a handshake can be fatal if they are contaminated. It's insane, and it is as frustrating as you could imagine.

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>>34984979
Chapter 21

Tooru and Dodgeball

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>>34986709

>>34979857
Roof was already unable to legally purchase a gun due to a felony.
A failure to police a system.

Rodger had a known mental condition that was ruled as non-dangerous.
A failure in current analysis.

Both where caused by failings, forcing more people in for evaluations does not prevent the unwell from being misidentified.
Mental health checks do not prevent felons from breaking laws.

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>>34986721

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>>34986735

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>>34986751

>>34979816
>people with mental health issues should be instantly disqualified from 2a rights
>Trannies have a place in the military.
Pick only 1

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>>34986762

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>>34986776

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>>34986790

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>>34986798

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>>34986810

>>34979816
>What are some arguments against being required to pass a mental health evaluation to be allowed to own guns?
The onus of proof.
Under your idea you are not allowed guns until you prove competancy to to government

Under the law you are allowed guns, as in your constitutional right, until the government can prove you are unsafe.

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>>34986818

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>>34986841

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>>34986859

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>>34986871

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>>34986902

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>>34986915

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>>34986930
Fín