Child Soldiers: Viable or not depending on training, enviorment,

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If you can't leave your morals and Ethics, think hypothetically in the event of a... bizarre scenario, like zombie apocalypse.

Not viable as a mainline soldier because they can't carry enough weight.

Usable in emergencies because you don't have a choice.

Could be very useful as support/logistical helpers.

>>34978870
>Not viable as a mainline soldier because they can't carry enough weight.

Obviously, though their may be ways around this if we got creative.

>Usable in emergencies because you don't have a choice.

True.

>Could be very useful as support/logistical helpers.
I agree though, I think they could be of further use if trained a bit in specialized tactics with them in mind.

Yeah, why not. They'll be shit soldiers for sure but most people from civilized countries will hesitate in shooting the little bastards.

>>34978895

Would that mean that the children would have a small window of opportunity to remove kebab?

Defence of a stationary position such as a military base

>>34978909
I said civilized countries.
They might be able to remove a person or two before being gunned down but they'll not be more effective than an adult.

>>34978923
Hah!
What if we're sending them out in swarms?

>>34978910
This makes the most sense, as a defensive force they might excel.

Yall are idiots
Children make great soldiers because they haven't grasped yet the concept of their own mortality, therefore they are more afraid of being injured than being killed.
I remember this one ex child soldier saying that when shit hit the fan, he ran towards the enemy faster.
Another thing children don't have yet is empathy. A child isn't developed yet to put itself in the enemy's point of view. I've heard stories of a child shooting a pregnant woman just to see what would happen.
>Not viable as a mainline soldier because they can't carry enough weight
The problem so far with children in the front is that they aren't properly trained, but so far it has really only been militias, rebels and terrorists that use children, would be interesting to see what a child could do with proper training, an ak and 3-4 magazines

>>34978962
I think the AK might be a bit much depending on their age, anything lighter than that, that would make a better weapon?

And as far as weight, why not pair them up, one carries the rest of the equipment of the other and they work in tandem? Throwing and catching, and maybe even hot potato could be a really good way to teach kids how to throw someone a magazine.

>>34978844
>>34978962 This.
I spent a few years working with NGOs over in Africa and we dealt with a lot of former child soldiers. All the evidence suggests that children make good soldiers for exactly the reasons anon above mentioned. Low empathy, low sense of their own mortality, obedience to the group etc. They might not be able to carry as much ammo, shoot as accurately or plan as tactically advanced operations but desu I doubt that makes much of a difference day to day. It certainly doesn't matter in the usual setting child soldiers are used in.

>>34979101
This is true, now a days when everyone thinks of a squad of soldiers they think tacticool. I'm pretty sure back in the day they would thrive, well maybe not thrive, but they would fit better. Like during the French Resistance, I think that would have been a good setting for Child Soldiers.

>>34978870
>>34978888
They could probably be used as a defensive garrison. They wouldn't need to carry much gear or travel far. You could just tell some of them to shoot and others to bring supplies.

The thing that infuriated me about fighting Afghans was how maneuverable they were. Those fuckers would wear sweatpants and a tshirt, empty their weapons at us, and run like hell. If they planned to have a sustained engagement (which they almost never did) they would stuff some mags in their pockets, and maybe carry a belt for the PKM. We were very rarely able to close with and engage the enemy because we were laden with so much bullshit.

A very harsh reality is that some illiterate 15 year old with a rusty AKM and 2 magazines stuffed in his back jeans pocket is usually a more effective fighter than a man who spent 18 months in a military academy, has $1,000,000 worth of training, carrying $40,000 worth of gear, and the most advanced body armor money can buy.

A child, no, but a teenager absolutely.

>>34979152
Movement is the key to battle, someone famous said that, can't remember who. Once you stop moving you're dead. So the faster you can move, the better chance of victory or succesful retreat/regrouping. It's a shame you're bogged down as much as you are. I think if they could just produce a light weight, reliable chest plate that can at least take one shot or two at most. You'd have better chances.

>>34979164
It's not so much that, it's the bullshit a formal military has to deal with. For example, a guy empties an AKM at us, we have to call it in, report where and when it happened, wait because the officer on the other end wasn't at his desk, request permission to chase the enemy, wait for that permission, report where we were going and why, wait for that to go through, report back to the battalion commander, wait for him to respond, and so on and so on.

If we could just run after the motherfucker we could chase him down and kill him. But instead we have to wait 4p minutes fucking around on the radio by then he is gone anyway, and then we have to file a mountain of paperwork.

Reminder that bureaucracy kills.

>>34979183
>bureaucracy kills

That is one of the most painful truths in this world, and everything is fucked over by it.

>>34979183
>report where and when it happened, wait because the officer on the other end wasn't at his desk

I think that's bullshit, he should have to fucking sit their while you're out there until you come back or until someone else can immediately take his spot.

>>34979183
To simplify, the kid with the rifle can spray it as us, and has no superiors breathing down his neck. He can just run and blend back into the environment in minutes, if not seconds.
Meanwhile military fighters habe to deal with 1t fucking people in the chain of command before we are let off the chain. By the time that happens there is nothing we can do.

This is precisely why an insurgency will ALWAYS beat a military. 100% with no exceptions.
We need to be let off the leash and just do shit. The military treats us like children. We aren't even allowed to carry live ammunition most of the time for the love of fucking God.

>>34978844

I'm thinking use them as scouts. Nobody would think twice about kids poking around their sensitive stuff because they would chalk it up to them not knowing any better.

>>34979195
>We aren't even allowed to carry live ammunition most of the time
Wait what? That's so fucking irresponsible, how are you guys supposed to defend yourselves if shit hits the fan like a goose in a jet engine?

>>34979197
While that might be a good use, it takes a street smart kind of kid to be able to pull something like that off and not give off an aura of nervousness.

>>34979204
When we were deployed of course we were allowed ammunition (most of the time, on some bases that wasnt allowed) The point I'm making is that they treat us like children that need permission to to ANYTHING. We are grown men, in a military unit. We should be able to... You know... wage the war they sent us to do

>>34978986
>I think the AK might be a bit much depending on their age, anything lighter than that, that would make a better weapon?
>hello I am fat Yank and kids need to carry ten rations of Lunchables, three pairs of socks and two gallons of water and nine quarts cola a day, eight and three quarter foot belt for the machinegun they're trained to use, an IFAK they're trained to use, a service rifle no more'n 35 3/4 inches chambered in a childish caliber like .223, a barley bushel of magazines, sidearm in 9mm and a 1/9 hogshead of ammo for that plus a child sized kabar and must be able to run a mile in twenty minutes in athletic gear and we're expecting no more than a 77% washout rate with slightly more in aviation and submarine branches, but we expect this matter to be resolved once we get logistics settled and we get uniforms that fit them better
You're lost here, look at how the industry leaders in child soldiering do it:
>I am the general Butt Naked and I am emissary of the Lord, now take this powder to make you invisible and fearless and strong and push this button *ratatat* when you see the demons

>>34979214
Sorry, sorry, I didn't mean lighter in weight, I should have elaborated, I meant with recoil. I'm only saying that since I've never shot an AK and have no frame of reference to it's punch, but it sounds like it might be a bit much for anyone younger than 13, baring that oddly robust 12 year old.

>>34979212
>wage the war they sent us to do

Look at it from a more high-up perspective anon.
You are not sent there because that guy is the next Hitler knocking on the world's doors.

Keeping the civilian population kind of not absolutely fucking pissed at and scared of the military is much more important than gunning down every last one of the insurgents, as you only give them more recruitment drive for one and also make them much less obedient to the requests by the government and their intentions, like the opium trade bullshit in Afghanistan.

Real war isn't a Call of Duty deathmatch. Depleting one's "kill counter" is not the goal unless you're doing a genocide.

>>34979233
I'm not saying we should fight wars of attrition, that experiment ended awfully in Vietnam.
>more recruitment drive
Good. That means we get to engage more enemies.

I am a firm believer that all E9 - O4 positions in the military should just be done away with. For the love of all that is fucked in God's cruel kingdom... LET US FIGHT. That is why were here right?
War is an awful terrible thing that should be avoided at all costs, but if we are going to do it, let us fucking do it!

As said before they aren't really viable for frontline because of lower stamina, strength and mental stability. But since they're small, light and agile they could be used for:
1. Spotting - if you're some kind of militia just tape their mouths and give binocs, allow them to fall back only when they spot something coming
2. Ammo carriers - can get basically everywhere and if you just put these mags/boxes they need to carry inside small cute backpacks enemies wouldn't shoot them as much
3. Nurses, cooks, anything inside bases that everyone can do

>>34979233
>unless you're doing a genocide.
That's kind of what you have to do with an enemy force though... but since this is more religious than anything, you have that to deal with an entirely different can of worms. There will always be fanatics and even if you win against them now, some one in the future is going to take up the cause again and it's back to the sands with our boys.

Honestly, if it was with the powers of those willing to act, evacuate the civi's then carpet bomb the fucking place mile by mile. Break the cluster bombs out of the retired "unethical" weapon's cabinet and just swiss cheese the fucking surface. Then bunker buster every hole we think they might be in. That's just me though, and I'm an ignorant idiot. Just saying.

>>34979256
How about messengers? Carrying missives and small packages in those backpacks. Or do you think that might be a little to important to leave to children?

>>34979267
Yeah, i thought about it too but forgot to include it. Polish resistance in warsaw uprising used them quite a lot with success, but if they wouldn't face germans it would be even more effective

>>34979260
>Break the cluster bombs out of the retired "unethical" weapon's cabinet

Don't we still use those? Or at least have them stockpiled somewhere? I'm pretty sure we wouldn't just toss them out or 'splode our supply of them.

>>34979296
We have them stockpiled with the napalm landmines, hollow points, and everything else that's effective.

>>34979314
>napalm landmines
These sound kick ass.

>>34979260
Afghan wars had nothing to do with religion, you're messing up conflicts.

Also, the idea of evacuating all civilians and then leveling every last piece of land is an incredibly dumb one. Who's going to feed those people while they are away? The military is big but not "feed and care for an entire country's population on our own" big. Likewise, once you're done, most if not all of them are doomed to die as there is no infrastructure left.
No schools, no hospitals, no jobs, no food production,... all in one of the world's more inhospitable environments.
Their only option would be to flee to another nation and a mass migration like that is just another catalyst for unrest and eventual wars over ethnicity and shit like that.

>>34979414
>Their only option would be to flee to another nation and a mass migration like that is just another catalyst for unrest and eventual wars over ethnicity and shit like that.
Not the guy you're replying too, but aren't we already seeing that as is? I mean have you seen Europe? I haven't seen that much brown since I looked outside and I live in Texas.

>>34979386

Dude, we had fucking nuke mines at one point. Fucking NUKE mines. Wrap your head around THAT shit.

>>34979558
>nuke mines
What!? I knew we had the one you could fire from a tripod, but what!? That's insane! How would that even work? Is it bigger than an Anti-Tank mine?

>>34979226
m8, literally just google 'Child soldiers africa', or '...cambodia' or '...vietnam' or '...syria'. AKs have been used for years. Child soldiers swinging AKs is about as battlefield-proven as you can get.


Everyone like >>34979256 saying that they're not viable is talking in direct contradiction to the facts of the world. Most soldiers do not need stamina, endurance or mental stability. They NEED to be lift a gun, take orders and that's it. Sure, on average the badass, welll-trained American commando will win a firefight but in each individual case the difference probably isn't going to be something you'd bet money on.

>>34979590
Yes, all you need to fight is a pair of hands with one finger to pull the trigger!
Of course everyone can do anything but some people are better or worse at different things.

>>34979578
The Brits packed the W. German / E. German border with them during the height of the Cold War. Plan was to detonate them in the face of a Soviet advance, either obliterating or cutting off the spearhead and turning the border into something impassible without NBC protection.

>>34979578
It wasn't a mine that you think of, where someone steps on it. It was a device that was buried underground with a trigger on it, much like nuclear tests.
>you know an enemy is in the area
>press button
>profit

>>34978844
Boss, those are just kids. Don't hurt them

>>34978844
Children lack the ability to make intelligent decisions. If you have children in your army they will have to be under constant supervision or expect constant fuck ups.

>>34978844
pic is of poor quality find the most recent eval the Marines did on female integrated unitsa. Women did significantly worse upwards of 40%+ worse on crew served machine guns and mortars

>>34979671
Yes, but they will always be brutally honest and if a 10year old can find a flaw in a plan, then obviously something is wrong.

>>34979520
>I mean have you seen Europe?

I have, I live here, I have yet to meet a single one. Not saying that there aren't any (though I am fairly certain it's generally Red Scare 2.0: Electric Boogaloo with the media overblowing stuff to hell and back to achieve their ends), but what I'm talking about is on a completely different scale. Afgahanistan is a country of 34,6 million people and realistically, you'd have to remove all infrastructure for about a half of them to get anywhere with the massacre of the local warlords.

We are going nuts over but a mere fraction of that, with just over a million migrants and only around 300k people not getting booted back into Asia the moment they are caught by the police.
And Syria itself has a population of about 18 million, so a "nuke it from orbit and let people sort it out afterwards" strategy would have downright unimaginable consequences, to say nothing of the fact their neighbors like Turkey and Israel would jump at the first opportunity to tear the place apart for territorial rights.

>>34979614
They wanted to be on the battlefield

>>34979781
>Israel
Ok, never mind that plan, they have enough.

>>34979792
true. quiet with a suppressed tranq rifle a best

>>34979183
ROE was to return fire or shoot at men holding weapons in a threatening position even if they had not opened fire yet.
It was also open enough to interpretation for the bongs to engage people holding radios and binoculars during mortar strikes because they presented a clear threat.

>>34978844
Depends on age. I was Infantry myself.

Give me a bunch of 14 year olds I could probably whip them into a fighting force. Give me a bunch of 6 year olds and fuck it, I'll just take the to Chucky Cheese.

>>34979607
Just to add to that response, from a historical standpoint: The mine name comes quite literally from a mine shaft which was dug under a fortress, filled with explosives and detonated. The more recent landmines and anti-tank mines borrow the name from this tactic.

>>34979183
when Bush was president, I never needed to ask permission to kill sand niggers. If I saw a weapon, at all, I could open fire.

Fuck, in Karballa, we had no ROE. We were free fire. If it moved and wasn't coalition, it died.

>>34979212
lol. they didn't send you there to fight a war. they sent you there to act as an extension of command authority's will. you are just as meaningless to those in power as that sand nigglet you just shot. That is why they treat you like children. all they want from you is to not do something which causes political headaches back home, so that they can get promoted to rear vice admiral of laxitive procurement somewhere at the Pentagon so they can start padding their career at Raytheon.

talk to a commissioned officer and bring up concealed carry. watch their face drain of color. they are terrified at the thought of an enlisted man defending himself from assault. they don't mind so much sending that same enlisted man to Mannheim, Leavenworth, or Arlington.

You will always be worth less than your CO's next promotion. this is true all the way up the chain to the White House. It it is also true of every member of every other department of government. The only difference there is that 100% of them are clued in to reality. unlike you.

>>34979671
just like marines, huh?

>>34978986
just give em one of these and a couple of mags. they're small enough that its like a mid sized carbine in a kids hand.

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>>34981966
>>34978986
>forgot pic

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>>34981856
*Said some dipshit on 4chan*

Jesus Christ. Marines have both higher education and physical standards than the army. I can't tell if it's bait or legitimate retards anymore.

>>34982027
I'm sorry, I can't hear you through the crayons in your mouth.

>>34979256
I'd have to say that child soldiers would make good skirmishers. For hit and fade a dozen little African kids with AKs would be pretty effective.

>>34978844
children are fucking brutal
also they're small and whatnot
and nobody's gonna just shoot a kid

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read about the 12th SS if you want to know how 16-17 year olds act in battle. short version, they dont care at all and will fight to the death.

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>>34979819
>not using quiet with the brennan
its like you don't want to fight skulls

>>34984650
dam son

>>34984544
>nobody's gonna just shoot a kid

Failure of training. You will have to shoot anyone that is armed.

>>34979296
>Don't we still use those?
Yes, we do. We still use napalm and landmines too
>>34979314
Is just an idiot