what if the confederacy had T-72s in the civil war?

>>34973414
Their economy and industry would be unable to keep them in service.

Well I guess they would, dare I say, be at an advantage due to future tech

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what if Abraham Lincoln was a terminator with a phased plasma rifle in the 40-watt range

?

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>>34973414
>drive up to the middle of union ranks
>union cannons load up grapeshot
>full ERA detonation destroying an entire brigade of the surrounding Union troops
>tank drives away

>>34973425
A rational and considered response to a dumb assed question? NOT ON MY GODDAMN BOARD.

RRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

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What if the confederates had WWI era aircraft?

>>34973414
Harry Turtledove, what are you doing on /k/?

>>34973414
I love this image so much omg

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>>34974413
I really need to read that book again.

>>34973517
rosy cheeks means old abe was probably ovulating.

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What if John Wilkes Booth was actually a steam powered cyborg?

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>>34973414
Why does everyone shit talk the Confederacy all the time? WE DIN DU FUKN NUFFIN. EVERYONE HAD SLAVES. SLAVES FOUGHT ALL AROUND. FUCK YANKEES. FUCK CARPET BAGGERS. OUR DIXIE FOREVER SHE'S NEVER AT A LOSS

They'd be fucking invincible for about 12 seconds until they ran out of diesel

>>34975899
>why do people shit talk traitors

>>34975959
http://imgur.com/a/725A7

>>34975979
Good on that you treacherous fuck. Long live Dixie

>>34975899
>Why does everyone shit talk the Confederacy all the time?
why are there a fuckton of damn yankees moving south every day?
they can shit-talk all they want to, but facts speak louder than words ever had.

>>34975979
>linking to sime fags blog on imgur
Were the Union Army the redditfags of the 19th century??

>>34975931
>voluntarily enter a union that is about self governance at its core.
>yankees chimpout when some decide to leave to govern themselves
>100 years later revisionists make the yankees look like they had some moral high ground and were fighting against slavery.

>>34976093
Still lost

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>>34973414
*Develops a tank named after our president*
*blows up your tank*
*teleports behind you*
Nothing personal kid

>>34976179
N

>>34976243
Is that Montgomery?

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>>34973414
Well, I'm not entirely sure if the south's wartime economy would be able to support the war, even with reply to this post or your mother will die in her sleep tonight

>>34976179
I agree, the Spirit of America was defeated in 1865 and has since gone extinct. Sad!

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>>34976100
>100 years later revisionists make the yankees look like they had some moral high ground and were fighting against slavery.
The North didn't start the war at Fort Sumter

Fuck off carpet baggin scum
https://youtu.be/5HeZtFH1Trg

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>>34976352
https://youtu.be/YI16zDNFLec
Long live Dixie boys

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>>34973414
>>34973427
>>34974262
How would they fuel them?

>>34977681
Kerosene.

>>34975570
Even with the long as downtime, I love moments when the characters interact and try to reverse engineer the propellant powder of 7.62s.

>>34976071
That's cool, but did you know the entire reasoning for the war was because they south threw a shitfit.

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>>34977681
>How would they fuel them?

Steam of course.

>>34975899
They literally tore the country in half to form another country that was immediately in dire straights and far inferior to its northern counterpart, starting the most horrific conflict that ever took place on this continent. Gee, I wonder why? Also slaves were very expensive, not many people had them.

>>34977681
Coal.

>>34976288
William Tecumseh Sherman

>>34977833
Oh, I thought it would be some Yank since there's so many clappers on this board. Guess not.

>>34976333
>get asked nicely to leave.
>refuse
>chimpout when you get shot at for illegally occupying a fort in a foreign country.

>>34977847
>illegally occupying a fort in a foreign country.
about that....

>>34973414
What if the Saracens had phasers?

These threads are stupid.

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>>34975899

>>34974262
t. someone who has no idea how era works

>>34977847
This is one of the most hilarious delusions of dixieboos, that despite the land Sumter was built on being sold to the federal government, suddenly the Union no longer owning it once the south chimps out because their presidential candidate loses (It was his TURN). Contracts don't get invalidated just because you change your mind years later. Fort Sumter belonged to the Union, and no amount of butthurt or southern autism will change that.

>>34976100
>100 years later revisionists make the yankees look like they had some moral high ground and were fighting against slavery.
So, every rebel state's secession notice listing maintaining slavery as casus belli is a fluke?

>>34977785
>Also slaves were very expensive, not many people had them.
Yeah, the ones rich enough to be able to convince everyone else to fight for them.

>>34973425
fpbp

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>>34977847
>foreign country

Recognized by literally no one.

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>"united" states of america

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>>34978260
Not an argument

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>>34978340
>That quality Southern Education

>>34978194
So could you enlighten us beyond a KE/HEAT projectile penetrating the outer plate being sufficient for activation?

>>34978386
>ad hominem
Not an argument

>>34978194
Go ahead, please enlighten us.

>>34977726
That is a good take, not for T-72s but gas turbine T-80s

>>34976333
But that's not the point. The autists in Washington wanting to preserve a union that they had no right to force anyone to stay in and chimping out when people leave anyway is not moral superiority, as despicable as slavery might be.

>>34978422
You can put kerosene in diesel engines and it will work for a little while or just cut the diesel to make it last longer.

>>34978394
>KE/HEAT projectile
>civil war grapeshot

>>34978422
>gas turbine T-80s
people would think it's a steam engine anyway due to the noise

>>34978439
>Grapeshot is not a kinetic energy projectile

>>34978453
>civil war grapeshot is not powerful enough to detonate the relatively non-sensitive explosive in era

>>34978408
>Can't come up with a counter so you just go dismissive

>>34978458
>relatively non-sensitive
Are you also familiar with grapeshot characteristics at short range?

>>34978428
>The autists in Washington wanting to preserve a union that they had no right to force anyone to stay in
This isn't true at all. Once the Constitution was ratified there was no legal mechanism of secession.

>chimping out when people leave anyway
The South fired the first shots, and the only way to end a civil war is through total, crushing victory.

>>34978476
>not an argument

>>34978498
>Hurr if I keep repeating myself I win!

>>34978482
>no legal mechanism of secession
Just like how there was no legal secession from the British Empire?

>through a total crushing victory
Burning down your own cities and raping your own citizens is and was evil

>>34978482
>there was no legal mechanism of secession
The Constitution is a document organizing the federal government of united autonomous regions. Our entire system of government is dependent on the representatives of each of those states meeting together to decide on national issues. To dismiss this because it was never specifically mentioned is silly. It's like saying assault rifles aren't protected by the 2nd amendment because it was never mentioned.

>>34978517
>I'm only pretending to be retarded

>>34978482
A) the Articles of confederation were still binding and thus the COnstitution is not a valid document.

B) Nothing in the constitution requires the various states to STAY in the union.

C) THe treason Jefferson Davis and the Generals and congress of the CSA were not tried for treason was because the USAG, the special prosecutor brought in to try the treason cases and more than one judge and other attournes who were consulted determined that the secession may indeed have been valid, thus making the Union's p[rosecutrion of the war a criminal act. Rather than find out and risk opening the federal government up to the world's largest wrongful death lawsuit AND being forced to grant the Confederacy it's indipendance after 4 years of war and more than half a million dead, they decided simply to let everyone go and sweep the treason allegations under the rug.

>>34978522
>Implying the difference wasn't that the British just couldn't afford war in the colonies AND the real war against France any more
>Implying they actually recognized Sovereignty at any point before the War of 1812
>Implying without Sherman's march to the sea the people of the South would have learned the real costs of war
>>34978532
The Constitution is also legally binding and recognizes ultimate supremacy of the Federal government, without which it wouldn't be a real nation. The idea a state could enter that pact, give up its sovereignty willingly, then just randomly back out at any time over any reason is just silly.

>>34978534
No, you're not pretending at all.

>>34978575
>Southern nonsense

>>34978476
Don't have to counter a logical fallacy on account of it being a logical FALLACY.

>>34978599
>>Implying the difference wasn't that the British just couldn't afford war in the colonies AND the real war against France any more
>>Implying they actually recognized Sovereignty at any point before the War of 1812
Are you really arguing that American independence is illegitimate?

>>Implying without Sherman's march to the sea the people of the South would have learned the real costs of war

>implying its okay for the federal government to do this

>>34978605
>documented history

Look it up you colossal fact evading faggot.

>>34978621
>Are you really arguing that American independence is illegitimate?
No, that it mainly occurred because it wasn't worth it to the British.

Hell, if we had let the South secede it'd be a complete shithole. Well, more than it is now. And not dragging the rest of the nation down.

>>34978612
>Fallacy Fallacy

Your first "Not an argument" was a bullshit response to the perfectly valid response that the Confederacy was a legal non-nation that struck first. Pointing out the genuine fact that Southern Education sucks balls to your non-sequitur was just as valid.

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>>34975959

>>34978626
> the Articles of confederation were still binding
>documented history
You're an idiot.

>southerners still salty after all these years

No one likes a sore loser.

>>34978659
>Ad Homenem

Do you have an actual argument?

>>34978672
Do you have anything you didn't just pull out of your ass?

>>34977681
Whale oil smuggled from England.

>>34978680
>Ad homenem
>AGAIN

>>34978651
>No, that it mainly occurred because it wasn't worth it to the British.
So the since the Revolution occurred, that makes in legitimate?

>Hell, if we had let the South secede it'd be a complete shithole. Well, more than it is now. And not dragging the rest of the nation down.
You are now implying that the South shouldn't have seceded due to it becoming a 'complete shit show'.
Which means that the civil war was only about control. Which is correct.

>>34973414
Theyd probably get some people to make a blue print of them before they melt them down and turn them into rifles.

>>34974413
>>34975570

Why the fuck does Turtledove think it's a good idea to write sex scenes? He's so bad at it, they read like something /r9k/ and r/incels would come up with.

>>34978702
>fallacy fallacy
Argument by yelling "fallacy" doesn't validate your incorrect statements. How. The. Fuck. Would. The. Articles. Of. Confederacy. Still. Apply?

They were a provisional, temporary measure until the final government was established. They were no more valid 72 years later than slapping your dick on someone else's car makes it yours.

>>34974262

If ERA did that, it would go off from dudes shooting at it with rifles

>>34978703
>So the since the Revolution occurred, that makes in legitimate?
You have to win to make it legitimate, numbnuts. Breaking sovereignty only works if you have the means to take and hold it. The South did not.

>Which means that the civil war was only about control. Which is correct.
No, it was about slavery, like every state's articles of secession stated.

>>34978732
>no you have to win to make it legitimate
So if the South had won, they would suddenly have been in the right?

>>34978739
>implying they would have been able to in any way
No, they would have been independent, that's really all there is to it.

>>34978743
>No, they would have been independent, that's really all there is to it.
Now you're back tracking
Our entire tangent was over the legitimacy of a state declaring sovereignty from its mother nation

Dont worry, they will have them in the next one.
They will have much more. Mostly slavshit equipment and armaments but also a lot of american as well.
Texas grid will be protected by some fighters and the s-3 and 400 batteries.
Dont worry about a damn thing

>>34978386
>The states with all the blacks and mexicans have the lowest graduation rates
woah..

>>34979275
>blacks and mexicans are the only ones living there

public education here is abysmal
t. texasfag about to killed by hurricane

>>34979283
>texan
>smart or southern

>>34978195
>Dixieboos

This pleb doesn't know that they're called leeaboos

>>34973414
Second civil war when

Pretty sure it would be a cakewalk, yanks would be too busy shoving dildos in their ass and having their women fight their wars for them.

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>>34973414

>>34978599
"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable – a most sacred right – a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world." - Abraham Lincoln 1847, addressing Texas secession from Mexico.

https://www.abbevilleinstitute.org/review/ft-sumter-the-first-act-of-aggression/

As Lincoln would reply to Colonel John B. Baldwin who had suggested that the South should be allowed to secede peacefully: “And open Charleston, etc as ports of entry, with their ten percent tariff. What, then, would become of my tariff?”

>>34973414
They wouldn't get enough whale oil to run them because of the blockade.

>>34978651
>shithole
I guess that's why all the shit eating yankees are moving here, for dinner.

>>34973414
this country would be a paradise since theyd win the war

>>34973414
What if you're rehashing a book written almost 50 years age by Harry Turtledove?

>>34973414
Picketts charge would have gone a little better I can assume

>>34973425
Didn't expect that dumb thread to be over in one post.

>>34977681
Peanut oil

Diesel motors were made to run on it

>>34981805
>Implying the myriad uses of peanuts were known until George Washington Carver, a freed slave, found them

>>34981827
>implying that nigger did half the shit people claim he did
Peanut butter was a thing before gw carver.
As was peanut oil.
He was a botanist that pushed the usage of them as an alkalizer of soil similar to beans, to be used as a rotation crop.
Thats pretty much it.

>>34975959
>thread about the civil war
>holohoax images
what did he mean by this

>>34973425
FPBP

>Union captures T-72s in transport snafu
>mounts turrets on trains
>armoredtrainSherman.mpg

>>34973425
>Their economy and industry would be unable to keep them in service.
Actually, that is a question. T-72 can consume pretty rough gasoline.

>>34982651
>1860
>Petroleum products
Unless the T-72 runs on whale oil or coal I don't think there are many options

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Novorossiya stronk.

>>34979283
In plenty of counties in Georiga that's certainly the case. However, most of those counties are around Atlanta, where there's really no problem with people graduating, even though there really should be if you look at how these kids actually perform in school. The only hypothesis I have for the generally low graduation rate is that kids drop out of school to work on farms that their family owns because you can make plenty of money doing it and you don't have to convince your own parents to hire you.

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>>34977782

That's a groovy looking tank.

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>>34977681
Wood gasification, if you could cram it in there that is.
It could probably be fit on the back if nothing else. This would have the side effect of giving them a video game-esque weak point unless it was covered in a big cumbersome armored box

>>34982651
Fractional distillation of petroleum products is EXTREMELY suspect for that time frame, even if you gave them an idea of what to do.

>>34983083
no more implausible than a T-72 in fuckin' 1861-65.

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>>34982651
Operating any tank requires loads of preventative maintenance and a strong supply lines to deliver ammunition and spare parts. Also tanks are and always have been dependent on rail transportation to facilitate their deployment, and one of the most difficult challenges the CSA faced was their limited rail capacity (which isn't even capable of transporting T-72's). Most importantly of all, T-72's do not run on gasoline, they take diesel.

Better question:

What if the Confederacy had radios for every brigade, a couple hundred M777 howizters, and a shitload of shells and propellant charges for them?

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>>34985112

>>34985214
lotta goddamn dead yanks.

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>>34977847

>>34985390
How though. The m777 howitzer aims nothing like the round shot and powder cannons they had then. They might work out how to load it but I doubt they could use it with any resemble of accuracy.

>>34985518
a barrage from "a couple hundred M777 howitzers". how much fuckin' accuracy do you need with a 155 shell?
not to mention the fact it wouldn't take that much know-how anyway.
since we are speaking about hypothetical shit anyway, why not send along a few instructors.
if we were do game-changing shit nowadays, we would.

>>34978727
Grapeshot can have fairly large projectiles

>>34985214
The M777 weighs almost nine times as much as the largest of the guns used in the Civil War. Transportation of these guns would become a logistical nightmare and they could very well become just as much as a hindrance as they could be an asset. Also artillery was still very primitive back then and even with radios observers would find it difficult to bring the guns on to target at the ranges farther than those typical for the era.

>>34985691
The guns would likely be divided into the standard artillery units in service at the time, and massed artillery attacks such as what you describe weren't seen until the first world war and were really brought about due to the static nature of the war. It is incredibly likely that the units given these guns would struggle to use them effectively both due to the inadequacy of the techniques of the era and the lack of a reliable method of transporting these weapons.

>>34974413
It always bugged me how Lee is holding that AK with his left hand. It would be more natural to extend your fingers to the bottom edge of the frame and rest your thumb along the top edge. Even better to grip around the narrow section of the buttstock. What is he even doing in that picture?

>>34973414
>>34974413
>>34985214

Enjoy your fiction leeaboos. Us UnionBros will just chill in reality.

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"It would be disingenuous to pretend that there is not a higher law, according to which no nation may be bound against its will to the surrender of its freedom, independence and sovereign identity. The right to nationhood is one of those rights of which it may be said that time does not run against it. History is littered, and some of its most glorious pages are adorned with the instances of nations which reasserted and reclaimed their rights to govern themselves under their own laws and policies"

"There is no superior jurisprudence which can say to a nation you shall not, or shall no longer be, the masters of your own fate"

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>>34985112
big load of preventive in here.
it's glorified bulldozer with cannon, pour something flammable in gas tank and use something oily to lubricate moving parts

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>>34978386
what are: niggers

>>34983083
How many niggers does it take to push a t72?

>>34973414
What if you stop smoking weed?

>>34993108
>pour something flammable in gas tank
Its a diesel engine, not a turbine, you'll kill it.

>>34993354
Wow. Racist much?

How about you frig off back to Stormfront you disgusting nazi loser. You probably live in your mom's basement and are ugly lol.

He /klit/ if you like a little military fiction. Read David Weber's Safehold series.

It's an android that is on a human colony world set up to be an oppressive medieval society. he finds the most liberal of the kingdoms and starts giving them better technology. So they can win a war against the Not Catholic Church.

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>>34993583
pretty much all tank engines are multifuel.

>>34973414

That'd make them communists and that's not okay

>>34993533 (czech'd)
I bet he'd just be bored. Eating cheetos and uncontrollably laughing at infomercials beats contemplating a pitiful existence.
Don't move out of your parents basement. NEETs, underage B& heed my warning, not until you make 50K/yr or more.

>>34973414

I dunno about a Civil War, but if we had T-72's during the War of Northern Aggression Washington DC would have been leveled and that traitor tyrant would have been hung for waging an aggressive war against a sovereign nation.

>>34974392

Yankee cities would get bombed from the air, we'd have a tremendous advantage with scouting, oh and no blockades because we'd be able to drop bombs on the ships and they'd have no way of fighting back.

>>34974413

Was a fairly decent book.

>>34975899

>we had a Native American general
>a Jew was Second in Command of the government
>Majority of Mexicans fought in our ranks
>We introduced modern guerilla warfare

If the CSA popped up in 2017, everyone would support it as a bastion of diversity.

>>34993652

That's not how diesel engines work at all.

>>34993652
That isn't true in the slightest. However, the T-72 has a multi fuel engine capable of running on kerosene; kerosene was however only produced in quantity (insufficient to be a reliable source of fuel) in the Union.

>>34993745
diesels can burn kerosene and jet fuels.

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>>34993743
Embarrassing post, senpai

>>34985214

We win.

>>34986897

Honestly, I don't think the weight would be a problem. I wouldn't see it as an offensive weapon. M777 can go 15-25 miles depending on ord. used. Station them in Virginia within range of Washington DC and fire until the Union is willing to come to terms. Do this early enough in the war and they'd have no way of repealing the attack because early Union was quite incompetent. Wouldn't need to move them at all, because anytime the Union acts a fool, you just shell DC.

Problem solved, war over, Union capital moved to New York where it belongs.

>>34993743
>Yankee cities would get bombed from the air, we'd have a tremendous advantage with scouting, oh and no blockades because we'd be able to drop bombs on the ships and they'd have no way of fighting back.

A lack of any of the crucial industries that could sustain an airforce of any size would doom any hope of CSA aviation before it ever got off the ground. Furthermore a lack of accurate maps and radios would hamper navigation to the point of uselessness.

>>34993838
Union capital should be in Philadelphia.

>>34993838
>I wouldn't see it as an offensive weapon. M777 can go 15-25 miles depending on ord. used.

The issue lies with the techniques used by the artillerists of the era and how they would be inaccurate to the point of uselessness beyond the incredibly short ranges the howitzers of the time were used over.

>>34993867

You underestimate Southern ingenuity AKA nigger rigging. We had the first aircraft carrier:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSS_Teaser

>later illegally seized by Heathen Lincolnites

>>34978189
Here's my response to this stale meme: This isn't a child's baseball game this was a war where good men lost their lives. Not a trophy, a memorial. Get some new memes I've seen these same memes 50 fuckin times.

>>34973414
Any tank would have ended the war. Good luck finding diesel to refuel though.

Or did they have diesel in the 1860s? They had kerosene which isn't that far off.

>>34993743
>we

Nigger, you had nothing to do with it. It was "they" not "we".

>>34977837
I don't even know what this is supposed to be

>>34993964
>They had kerosene which isn't that far off.

Not enough to run tanks on, and even if they did they lacked the means to transport it in the quantities needed to keep the tanks running.

>>34979470
>implying that the country is still divided north/south
hillbillies everybody

>>34994062
the country is west coast and north east vs everything else.

it is still cities where all the wealth is concentrated vs mostly rural areas with a few wealthy land owners. .

>>34993597
take my upvote xD

It runs on diesel, isin't diesel stupidly easy to distill from crude oil? And isin't Texas, a confederate state, full of untouched, giant oil reserves that will just gush as soon as you drill? They could fuel it quite easily
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e3_bkKwgQY

>>34994094
The science behind refining oil was far ahead of the CSA, and they also lacked the ability to drill for it. They also didn't know the oil was there.

>>34994192
Well obviously the guy bringing back the T-72s could tell them.

>>34994316
So know they know where it is, but have no existing industry to extract and refining it while also lacking the adequate means to transport it.

>>34978651
>the south
>a shithole
Hoo boy, spotted the yankee cuck who thinks Unions, Chimps, high costs of living and urban jungle everywhere are good things.

>>34993597
>facebook infiltrates /k/ and blows cover

>>34993354
>Implying the white majority shouldn't make up for it in your reality

>>34994473
>South doesn't have the most nogs
>South isn't the biggest consumer of federal welfare
>South doesn't have the shittiest climate
>South doesn't have the most poorfags
Lmao delusion

>>34993743
>War of Northern Aggression
Opinions discarded.

>>34994316
Maybe he should just tell them waging a war against more populous, more industrialized neighbor is a fools errand and just save everyone the headache.

File: 4800.jpg (126KB, 1920x766px) Image search: [Google]

126KB, 1920x766px

>>34993943
So, what of the fact that none of these were put up in the immediate postwar period, but in fact were erected mostly during the period 50+ years later as cheaply as possible to stand as symbols of white supremacy in government as Jim Crow laws were passed?

>>34994088
>it is still cities where all the people live vs mostly rural areas with a few wealthy land owners.
FTFY

>>34994473
>Implying the rural North isn't far better than the South too
The South is fucked in every single statistic across the board.

>>34994473
>Unions
>Thinks the one thing that brought the 40-hour workweek, overtime, worker protections, and what was a livable minimum wage is a bad thing