How do destroyer personnel go "missing"?

>>34966422
Pretty much

>>34966422
Bumping because I've wondered the same exact thing.

It's my understanding, based on what I've seen on the news, that the ship flooded when it was hit, and there are many flooded compartments that got sealed off that contain drowned sailors.


Something that throws me off is all the talk about using divers to find lost bodies. I've never heard of divers searching for bodies lost at sea, so are they using divers to search the flooded compartments?

>>34966422
No body found even if mates saw him die? It's MIA.

>>34966570
>so are they using divers to search the flooded compartments?
Yes

>>34966422
Thank Goodness, it was only "white males" that died.

>>34966655
Don't cut your self on all that edge.

>>34966570
>so are they using divers to search the flooded compartments?
Yes.

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>>34966570
>You're awoken in pitch black to the sound of steel screaming as it is rent by enormous pressure and your last sensation is of being squeezed to death by an angry ocean as it drives the breath of life from your body

>>34966422
i smell cover up
>>34966760
fuck that is creepy!

>>34966591
>spartans never die.jpg

>>34966422
Confirmation.

As bad as it sounds, its rather hard to state with absolute certainty that the puddle of blood and bones is a certain person or multiple. Additionally, certain areas of the ship might be unreachable and even if the remains are onboard and intact, im certain that the navy wouldn't jump the gun until all remains were identified and recovered or the search is called off.

So when is somebody higher up getting relieved of duty here? This is twice in as many months.

Maybe there should be more ship driving training than sensitivity training.

>>34966760
>your last sensation is of being squeezed
a wall of water hits pretty hard, it would be more like a full body punch that knocks the wind from you and in your confusion you feel the sharp pain of drawing a breath of salt water and coughing it out. Then you asphyxiate while tumbling in the current clawing for a way out.

RIP ;_;7

What if they become crabs?

>>34966884
The way that collision went down it looks like the entire birthing was probably completely flooded in less than one second. They might not have even been enough conscious enough to realize they were dying. They woke up drowning.

>>34966876
they already replaced the 7th fleet commander. Vice Admiral Aucoin got purged since the navy needed to find a culprit (and to be honest after so many accidents nothing was done to prevent more of them from happening)

>>34966956
>>>/x/

>>34966876
>Maybe there should be more ship driving training than sensitivity training.

the irony here is that I'd be willing to bet decent money that it was either a black or a female JO driving both ships this has happened to

Navy ships are 30 percent under manned. Sailors are running on 4 hours of sleep a day at sea, 6 ashore.

This isn't going to be the last major accident at sea.

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>>34966967
>They woke up drowning
Fucking hell.....the ocean is scary.

>>34966760
>all the reasons I'm not in the Navy

>>34966974
He wasn't purged, he was already retiring. He announced his intention to retire a couple of weeks before the Fitz collision. Rest assured though, 7th Fleet upper levels are super fucked.

>>34967137
But ships are fun

>>34967156
That's why I play Kancolle

>>34966570
>>34966635
>>34966684
>>34966824
>"After more than 80 hours of multinational search efforts, the U.S. Navy suspended search and rescue efforts for missing USS John S. McCain sailors in an approximately 2,100-square mile area east of the Straits of Malacca and Singapore," it said.

They're not searching a 2,100 sq mile area if they know the sailors are in flooded ship compartments.

>>34967173
But you'll never get a real mermfu

>>34967140
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/22/politics/uss-mccain-7th-fleet-commander-dismissal/index.html

Then what's this?

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>>34967156
Planes are better.

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>>34966422
after incident role call likely indicated missing persons

Multiple things could happen, if during the daytime, they may have swam towards the light if they were not killed by the pressure of 5 gorrilion gpm of water rushing into their living spaces, since they were all ET/IT types, I would imagine the electronics berthing was the impacted area. Usually you will see one of several effects, one of them is is a sucking into the ship, following the flow of water, in ancient sailor days, a sail would be thrown overboard to retard the flow by jamming the hole up in the suction

>>34966570
If people died in a known area (i.e. sunk straight to the bottom as with a wreck) then divers may aid in recovering bodies at a known location. If it is a flooded compartment, divers can swim around looking for dead people.

>>34966798
As a professional sailor, I would argue that given the prevalence of accidents, it seems like a) these guys were goofing around on watch, b) these guys were utterly incompetent when it comes to boat driving, In the 5th fleet incident with Iran, it was found that the captains had either failed or not taken their nav rules tests in quite some time, which was a contributing factor to the incedent

>>34966884

A 4 inch hole 4 feet below the waterline produces a flood rate of over 600gpm the whole in the ship appeared to be about 10 feet in diameter,air probably just made one big bubble above the waterline, instantaneously flooding the space

>>34967140
He probably had enough years in that they said request to get out or GTFO without benefits, and then this happened

>>34966760

archive - you make me feel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4mcHfZOX5k

I heard that there was hacking involved possibly, but that sounds like an excuse, because the ships are not remote controlled, they are driven ,and almost all modern ships have redundant systems to physically steer the ship using a hand crank if needed, also did they hack the lookouts vision?

>>34966422
the wrecked destroyers is all actually a huge plot by the USN to have the "disappearing" seaman infiltrate asian countries by boarding cargo ships and becoming stowaways until they dock for repairs.

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>>34967140
This plus all the corrupt fucks in the Fat Leonard case.

All the upper ranks of the 7th fleet needs to be purged. Sadly it probably won'y happen.

>>34967701
i would have gone with "the chinese did it to weaken us while they build up" but your idea almost works too

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>>34967701

holy shit, this is even better than the "captured navy sailors were actors, because they had white socks on" theory about the Iran incident,

a better theory is if we don't know we are doing, then the enemy certainly has no idea what we are doing

>>34967046
Everyone on duty on both ships?

>>34966760
that's not how pressure works you fucking chode

>>34966655
Did you just assume their races and genders?!

t.transracial genderfluid squirrelkin

>>34966570
http://world.time.com/2013/12/03/man-survives-60-days-under-water-in-sunken-ship/

>>34966570
So like that scene from Dunkirk when they were on that torpedoed ship?

>>34968399
>Correction: The headline for this article originally stated incorrectly how long the man survived underwater. It was 60 hours, not 60 days.

>>34967815
No. That a diversity hire JO had watch.

>>34968018
I read that report today, holy fuck

>>34967220
It's a PR move done to try to mitigate damage and to make it look like something is being done.

>>34966422
They were mashed and washed out to sea.

>>34967738
That's a great comic. The red rope between the shiny brass posts in front of the stairway to the "management deck" is an especially nice touch.

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>>34966422
>>34968018
why the fuck aren't these compartments evacuated before the collision?
>All sailors on starboard side evacuate to the top deck immediately
Jesus what a horrible way to die

>>34970584
Because the collisions happened like
>FUCK, what was that
and not
>Sloooooooooowwwwllllyyyyyyyyooohhhhhhshiiiiiiiiiiiitttttttwweeeeerrrrreeeeeggooonnnaaaaahiiiitttttt.

>>34970602
It was a 550 foot fucking cargo ship, You would definitely have time to see it coming

>>34968399
>http://world.time.com/2013/12/03/man-survives-60-days-under-water-in-sunken-ship/

lol his face

>>34970610
if bridge wasn't asleep they might had seen it

>>34970648
>if bridge wasn't asleep they might had seen it
Thats fucking horse shit
this should have never happened

>>34970654
what's horseshit about that?
if you sleep you don't see shit. If you're awake you see them

>>34970654
Now you see why everybody is so mad people needlessly died due to the Navy's incompetence to pick people right for their jobs.

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>>34970254
link?

>>34970654
Tell the navy to stop running their crews on 4 hours of sleep then. Or fill them full of uppers until they return to port.

>>34970687
I don't think it's been leaked yet

>>34970120
So everyone on duty on both ships was a diversity hire?

>>34970610
obviously, no one did. since it hit the fucking ship. guys manning the dars and the lookouts must have been all asleep or doin a circle jerk

Topside watch needs to be manned solely by E-6 to O-6 until this shit is rectified. They want to run their guys into the ground, they can have a taste of that shit, too.

>>34972403
Cargo ship bridges are usually empty(although officially they are always manned)

>>34966422
Breddy hard to identify some red paste in-between two bulkheads.

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>>34970723
sad to say this is one of the "good" things coming out of this. Just how dog runned a lot of maintenance and General crew are. I know this shit pervails even in ground based aviation. Aircrews have mandatory crew rest time frames to not risk fatigue but actual guys fixing and working on shit get the shaft.

http://taskandpurpose.com/fitzgerald-mccain-sleep-deprivation-navy/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share&utm_content=tp-share

I remember how when I got in back in 07' everything was about "Optimum Manning" and how computers and digital age was going to replace so many roles on the ships and in aviation. How we would only need like 1/3 the Manpower previously to fulfill the same roles/jobs. Then around 10' or 11' can't remember which one, Big Navy wen't "OH FUCK" we messed up and are severely undermanned now! Quick transfers 6,000 sailors from shore to sea duty in the next 6 months to fix this!

Then the next year in 2012... the Navy decides... huh lets just kick out 3,000 sailors based off a literal Random Number Generator.

Then... magically in 2013... holy shit! All those rates we kicked out are now undermanned! Lets offer Sea Service bonus's to keep people actually doing their job instead of getting a break on shore duty!

That is also not even getting into all the extra collateral bullshit you have to do to get a good eval on top of your regular job. Oh your literally the best sailor on the ship at your job and the go to guy for subject matter expert? Best we can give you is a P eval because PO2 Smith spends half his day looking at dicks as the Assistant Urinalysis Coordinator instead of actually being in the workcenter and since he has a collateral duty he obviously deserves more than you for taking on such a duty that requires extra responsibility. Course that ignores the fact that as he is gone looking at dicks the rest of the shop has to pick up the slack for him being gone and get 0 credit for it as "its expected".

>they chose to spend their money in gender sensitivity training instead
color me surprised this keep happening.

>>34973143
Oh that's what they meant with damage control training

>>34968399
>dive in looking for survivors
>find some nigga with a chipmunk voice

>DC training is literally "Yeah so just grab this big metal clamp with two bolts on it and put it on the pipe kinda, maybe hammer some wood in there, there you have it, the ship is fine"
>go to Heritage/Sex Signals three times a month where they go in depth over and over again about what is and is not considered rape

Am I wrong for rather having a Navy full of rapists than a Navy that can't fight wars or keep its people alive

>>34967137
As a personal mariner, I'm here to call you a huge pussy

>>34970723
>whaaa whaaa

Cry more faggot.
Drink more water/ coffee

>>34972839
No they're not. While underway they're always manned.

There is collision avoidance radar for aircraft. Why not ships?

>>34973444
there is, it's called your fucking eyes

>>34973448
clearly isn't working.

>>34973459
Navy has a habit of ignoring the rules of the road while underway.

>>34966422
>fall over the side
>nobody sees you
>weighed down by clothing/gear

>>34973444

there is, but for various reasons it may not have worked/been used

>>34973501
Have you never done solas training? It's easy to swim in uniform lol

>>34973001
You're welcome.

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>>34973001

Miss me yet?

>>34973602
Nobody liked that sandnigger

>>34973616
The niggers, faggots, and bitches he supported at the expense of the working man sure as hell did.

Think about all those "diversity" officers and NCO's in the ranks, just waiting for another NigBama to get elected so they can continue making our military worse with more SJW shit.

>>34973637
Do they *really* have some kind of mandate to have a certain per cent of each crew be female these days?

Its because china hacked their gps, just like they hacked the f35.
US navy is weak.
Commonwealth navy is far more professionnal.

>navigation and radar systems got hacked on the destroyer or the tanker by the Chinese?
>no one on watch or too fucking tired to care?
>equipment malfunction?

This shouldn't be happening.

>>34973435
>Cry more faggot.
So you're saying he's a faggot because the navy is running our sailors ragged? He's completely right.

Do we know what happened in the first collision yet? What are the best theories? And how about this one... It seems implausible that they were all asleep so soon after a similar incident.

>>34973654
No, Phil. Go away.

>>34973602
I don't think this was an Obama thing (or Bush) even. The fuck ups have been coming from higher ups that make the most pants on head retarded decisions when it comes to ops tempo and maintenance, even when they can clearly see how much it saps morale and the ability to do a good job at whatever it is that you do in the military.

>>34973673

>this is bait

NIGGA DO YOU EVEN UNDERSTAND GPS SPOOFING?
f35 blueprints were stolen from lockheed
even if they had their GPS hacked as you say, apparently the navy has blind lookouts now

>>34973637
I'll bet you were really disappointed when they stopped giving people with DUIs the option of enlisting. You had to live in a cell for three months after wrapping your truck around a tree instead of living out your homoerotic fantasies in one of the US Navy's finest seamen.

>>34973769
>The fuck ups have been coming from higher ups

Who do you think promoted them, and why?

>>34973728
The usn is full of such cry babies. Probably one of the easiest jobs next to working at burger king

>>34973806
t. Sumfaggot

>>34973849
>Who do you think promoted them, and why?
Congress, actually. He President is only the commander in Chief, he doesn't oversee the day to day (or even year to year) decisions made in the military unless they come from a shift in foreign/domestic policy. And even if he did, I don't like it can be blamed on Obama as he is the one who started the shift to Asia.

>The usn is full of such cry babies. Probably one of the easiest jobs next to working at burger king
But I assume your job is like, totally manly without "special snowflakes" right man?
Why don't you go to nuke, flight or submarine school then if it's so easy?

>>34973930
>Congress, actually.

Same bunch of shitbags, dude.


>President is only the commander in Chief

Who has the authority to immediately establish a lot of fucked up policy in the military by directing the JCS to do his bidding.

>>34973758
Cargo ship was performing an overtaking maneuver while on Auto-Pilot, it's AP decided "I turn now good luck everybody else" and came onto a collision bearing. Every watch stander, bridge officer and general personnel upon the ship due to complacency, fatigue, jerking each other off or what have you did not sound the alert of possible collision. Boom Crash shit happens.

Pretty much even if the cargo ship was purposly trying to ram the Fitz, it would be the Fitz's fualt because it "should've" seen it coming and been able to avoid the collision with it's plethora of sensors and Watchstanders using MkII eyeballs.

>>34966422
Man what an ugly way to die..Just chilling in your berth and bang.. poor bastards.

>>34973981
Fuck man. Do people not take their jobs seriously? If my job was to keep the ship secure from collisions I'd be scared to close my eyes. I guess they thought everyone else had it covered.

>>34973968
>Same bunch of shitbags, dude.
Not really. as it's them who selects and promotes the higher level officers.

>Who has the authority to immediately establish a lot of fucked up policy in the military by directing the JCS to do his bidding.
he does, but the military does have pushback, in the form of separation of powers. Not only that, but the JCS agreed with Obama's shift toward Asia.

>>34974004
It's a risk everyone who works on a boat takes.

>>34970610
Not always. At night or specially in misty conditions it is very easy to miss an cargo ship. Also the crews of both ships probably were not on alert. So nobody was paying attention. Still fuck me what an ugly death.

>>34968399
>the cook always survives
Amazing

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>>34967675
Thank you seaman anon, that post was very informational.

>>34973485
That's because where they're going the don't need road, Marty

>>34974335
Ur joke was bad and u should feel bad

>>34974036
>the military does have pushback

Sure it does.

Just like it did when the Clinton administration enacted "don't ask, don't tell", and opened up a bunch of combat support positions to females. Or how about when the NigBama administration said open faggotry and trannies are fine, and opened up combat arms to females.

The military is only as good as the POTUS and congress allow them to be, and the leftists have completely fucked up our military for their own political gain, and it shows. There is no "fixing" it, either, as the damage is too deep. It must simply be destroyed and rebuilt.

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>>34973637
>The niggers, faggots, and bitches he supported at the expense of the working man sure as hell did.
You know what's funny? He actually had most of the faults we have with NAFTA fixed - Canada and Mexico wanted to join the TPP, so he made them to agree to concessions as the entry fee. They were added to the TPP as a whole, but that's not happening now.

But hey, let's bitch about the President who held Wall Street's feet to the fire and restructured the auto sector (which has been growing leaps and bounds for eight years straight) because the Congress wouldn't pay for his initiatives for workers, just to piss people like you off.

>>34974478
FILTHY MUSLIM NIGGER

>>34974004
not as bad as the poor cunt in the fitzgerald who was found dead on the toilet

>>34966422
One of two ways:

Knocked overboard

Mutilated beyond recognition.

It's not rocket science OP, nor is it some stupid ass conspiracy.

>>34974454
>Just like it did when the Clinton administration enacted "don't ask, don't tell", and opened up a bunch of combat support positions to females. Or how about when the NigBama administration said open faggotry and trannies are fine, and opened up combat arms to females.
Well literally dozens of other nations do both of those things and they do fine.
T B H if we're going to play the game where we debate who screwed over the US military more, Bush, Rummy, Cheney and Co did quite a bit with the Iraq invasion and subsequent use of contractors in jobs formerly done by soldiers. Not to mention not listening to their generals in how the wars should be fought, which prolonged the war so much that complacency took hold and led us to where we are now.

>The military is only as good as the POTUS and congress allow them to be, and the leftists have completely fucked up our military for their own political gain, and it shows.
Same could be said when Repubs sent them into a war (Iraq) with no clear indication of what would happen after Saddam.

>There is no "fixing" it, either, as the damage is too deep. It must simply be destroyed and rebuilt.
So you think the military is combat ineffective? I suppose you never served, but will talk someone's ear off about how we can "fix" the nation, right?

>>34974509
There it is...

>>34974942
>dozens of other nations do both of those things and they do fine.

No. They don't.

First, "dozens of other nations" are all pretty much shit compared to what the U.S. military was at their height in the 80's.

Second, most of the Eurofag nations that adopted those policies did so under the security umbrella provided by the U.S., and as a result of their leftist tendencies. When it come to females, EVERY official study ever undertaken clearly demonstrates that they make units WORSE due to their physical limitations, inability to adapt to male teams, and the additional logistical strain they put on the force. Bitches are in service to advance the political careers of leftists, period, and they don't care about the detrimental impact they have on our fighting force.

>you never served
I served as a grunt in conventional and SOF units alike, and did over 3 years of combat operations during multiple tours during the GWOT. The election of the leftist NigBama administration is why I got out.

>>34974454
"Don't ask, don't tell" had already been in place for decades, Clinton basically just stated an open secret. And pray tell, how many women are actually IN combat arms? Being open to them doesn't mean shit when they still need to climb the same mountain as everyone else.

>>34974509
Now now, don't be mad because his shotgun is classier than yours

>>34966422
Fuck, there all just a bunch of kids.

>>34975162
Not the other guy you're batting with, but the nations that allow women in combat roles include:
Israel
Canada
Best Korea
Other Korea
Australia
France

All of which have been in combat since women have been allowed to serve or, in the case of the Koreas, have strong incentive to maintain a cohesive force.

>I suppose
You're bad at reading.

>>34975190
>Don't ask, don't tell" had already been in place for decades,
Nope. Homosexuals were banned outright, and every recruit was directly asked if they were faggots before joing.

> how many women are actually IN combat arms?
No clue. That doesn't matter anyway, as they'll just keep lowering the standards until enough bitches finally decide to show up. The same thing they did with cops...

See: New ridiculous P.T. test
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/01/04/us-army-unveils-new-physical-assessment-test.html

>>34975283
>Israel
Pulled bitches out of combat units after the abysmal FAILURE they witnessed as a result of combat with Arabs. Females are more restricted in Israel today then they are in the U.S..

>Canada, Best Korea, Other Korea, Australia, France

Haven't done much of shit unilaterally since the 50's and WW II.

Females made the military WORSE, and if people insist on putting bitches in service, then they should be in their own units where their shitty performance can kill themselves alone and not men that have to babysit them.

>>34975162
>No. They don't.
Yes, they do. They don't have nearly the same amount of alcohol and sex incidents. Also, the French and Italians give out small amounts of alcohol in their MREs even when deployed.

>First, "dozens of other nations" are all pretty much shit compared to what the U.S. military was at their height in the 80's.
We're not talking about the 80s, you dummy.
>Second, most of the Eurofag nations that adopted those policies did so under the security umbrella provided by the U.S., and as a result of their leftist tendencies.
And whether or not they have killed military effectiveness is a moot point, because they have not. People shit all over the French when they went into Mali, and they did fantastically.

>When it come to females, EVERY official study ever undertaken clearly demonstrates that they make units WORSE due to their physical limitations, inability to adapt to male teams, and the additional logistical strain they put on the force.
The physical effectiveness part I agree on.

>I served as a grunt in conventional and SOF units alike, and did over 3 years of combat operations during multiple tours during the GWOT
Doubt it.
>The election of the leftist NigBama administration is why I got out.
So then you can't actually comment on what he did to hurt the military then?

>>34975367
>France
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Serval
Same kind of fight in AFG, same enemy, even worse territory.
They somehow came out with a decisive victory. Maybe there's something we could lean from the French.

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>>34973377
This. Our navy has spent years preparing to get raped.

Guess what happens next!

>>34975298
Not since 1947 unless they were sexually active, and especially not when there manpower shortages.

Pretty sure the PT test modifications are more because every branch has chairforce now and so many recruits are out of shape. The list itself makes clear that only those who pass the Black test will be considered for combat arms.

>"Black" for MOSs with heavy physical demands, like those of the combat arms branches that require lifting or moving 99 pounds or more. To attain Black on the OPAT, the recruit or soldier would need to attain a minimum of 5 feet, 3 inches, for the standing long jump; 14 feet, 9 inches, for the seated power throw; 160 pounds for the strength deadlift; and a 10:14 minute mile over the course of 43 shuttles.

It's a bit hard to compare to previous tests since so many elements have changed. Dropping the mile time by at least a minute seems like something that should be done, though. What would you prefer?

>>34975367
>Pulled bitches out of combat units after the abysmal FAILURE they witnessed as a result of combat with Arabs.
Uh huh. Is that why a 60% female brigade has patrol duty for the border with Egypt? I mean, I can go on

>France
>No unilateral action
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Are you even trying?

>>34975369
Apparently you think our "allies" have done anything other than shit-tier "peace keeping" duties or serve under the blanket of support and security provided by the U.S..

France is about the only nation that's regularly done unilateral shit, but most of it is in shit-tier Africa where people don't care how they operate.

>whether or not they have killed military effectiveness is a moot point...

No, that's the ONLY point of ANY military policy. Improving and maintaining combat effectiveness.

>So then you can't actually comment on what he did to hurt the military then?
Right. Because I never made any friends that stayed in that I still talk to, or anything.

You're obviously a moron, so we're done here.

>>34975389
>Maybe there's something we could lean from the French.

Yup. Don't turn your "war" into a media circus so your military can do their fucking jobs, kill the enemy, and come home.

>>34975471
>...it has restricted their role in combat, and it presently restricts their role even more than the United States. In an extended August 2015 report, the Jerusalem Post declared, “Despite some progress, most combat roles are closed to women in the IDF.” With much fanfare the IDF launched its Caracal Battalion in 2000, a mixed-gender force that largely patrols the border with Egypt, but the primary ground-combat role is still carried out by men.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/431239/israels-women-combat-experience-not-what-left-says

>>34966422
Their bodies haven't been found yet. Also flooded compartments may have not been recovered yet.

>>34975504
And yet, actual interviews with members of the Caracal battallion say otherwise. I'll take their word over a publication that would rather treat women like children instead of adults.
http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/05/16/180045066/Women-In-Combat-Lessons-From-The-Israel-Defense-Forces

>>34975428
>What would you prefer?

A grunt needs endurance for infiltration and long hours of patrolling under a heavy load, speed under an individual load to move from cover to cover under fire without getting hit, and to and from assault positions, and strength to carry shit and move himself over, around, and through obstacles, like walls, windows and shit.

Replace the 2 mile run with a 12 mile roadmarch under a 50 pound ruck, individual equipment and weapon, to be completed in under 3 hours and 15 minutes.

Keep the push up and sit up events but roll back the scoring to the 80's standard.

Add chin ups and a 20 foot rope climb with individual kit and weapon.

Add 5, 6, and 7 foot wall obstacles.

Add shuttle run for time with individual kit and weapon from 5 to 100 meters.

The new system they're going to use is a fucking joke.

>>34975571
>“Despite some progress, most combat roles are closed to women in the IDF.”

Pretty much sums it up.

>>34973637
>Think about all those "diversity" officers and NCO's in the ranks
Come to think of it, everyone I see who was meritoriously promoted is a minority. Just an observation.

>>34975479
>Yup. Don't turn your "war" into a media circus so your military can do their fucking jobs, kill the enemy, and come home.
Then tell that to Trump, Republicans and Co who somehow manage to turn every discussion about the military into some sort of patriotic wankfest for "our freedoms".

>Apparently you think our "allies" have done anything other than shit-tier "peace keeping" duties or serve under the blanket of support and security provided by the U.S..
Canada fucked shit up in AFG and Australia and New Zealand fought in Vietnam (and did better in their sectors than the US did in theirs).

>blanket of support and security provided by the U.S..
Once again, we're not talking about what the US has done security wise for other nations....

>>34975612
>add all these things I can't do
Sure thing larper

>>34975664
>tell that to Trump
Shit's been going down since the Nam' era, which is when the leftists finally secured majority control of the media.

>Canada fucked shit up in AFG and Australia and New Zealand fought in Vietnam (and did better in their sectors than the US did in theirs).

Canada operates as a part of the American coalition, dependent on our log and combat support.

As for the Oz and NZ dudes, they didn't do a damn thing that Americans weren't already doing, and usually doing better. Army LRP's, rangers, and Navy SEALS had the highest K/D ratio's of the war in Nam.

>>34975695
>not a white knight faggot like me
>must be LARPing

Sure, pal. Sure.

>>34975612
I think the longest march ever implemented in testing was 4 miles, but your idea makes sense.

The problem for a lot of your ideas, as I understand from other PTs that got shot down, is material costs. I wouldn't think rope, wall obstacles, and kit equivalents would be a significant cost, but I'm not a bean counter. There's also the time needed for the training itself.

>sit ups
>chin ups
I believe both are discouraged across the physical training spectrum partly because so many people do them mechanically wrong, but also because they are biomechanically more stressful and harmful than equivalent exercises.

I frankly can't see the point in a rope climb. Please point me at a time in the last 40 years US troops climbed a rope in combat conditions, with or without ditching their kit.

>>34975750
>Shit's been going down since the Nam' era, which is when the leftists finally secured majority control of the media.
Which is the same era Repubs and Nixon started using the military to carry out ops everywhere and anywhere regardless of what happened to effectiveness. I mean fuck, McMaster wrote a book about this entire thing. Same thing during the Reagan era.

>Canada operates as a part of the American coalition, dependent on our log and combat support.
But they still carry out operations. Nice moving the goalposts.

>As for the Oz and NZ dudes, they didn't do a damn thing that Americans weren't already doing, and usually doing better.
They were actually carrying out their missions and achieving their objects, without killing the locals and fucking up majorly.
>Army LRP's, rangers, and Navy SEALS had the highest K/D ratio's of the war in Nam.
Considering there were more of them in the war, yeah. Doubly so considering that many major air campaigns were in support of there operations.

>>34975762
>The problem for a lot of your ideas, as I understand from other PTs that got shot down, is....

Shitty leadership.

SOF employs the use of roadmarches, O-courses, and additional upper-body
exercises in their selection programs, exactly because the standard tests are straight up ass, designed and pushed for by pencil pushers and support faggots that drive a desk instead of a rucksack or any kit.

Low obstacle O-courses and all the other equipment could be easily funded by eliminating E/O NCO's, and countless other bullshit full-time positions held by officers and NCO's alike in support of SJW garbage.

As for rope climbs, they're simply a good measure of strength to weight ratio's, and that's the most important aspect of being an assaulter. An ox that has the power to deadlift 300 pounds is useless if he can't haul his own ass up and and over a wall / obstacle.

The bottom line is that the majority of the military is filled with support jobs and leaders that have NO clue what an assaulter is required to do in training and combat, so the support fags try to make standards that appeal to their shitty support jobs instead of thinking about the kid with the 80 pound AG rucksack being asked to hump the mountains in Nuristan for days on end.

>>34975750
>when the leftists finally secured majority control of the media.
You mean when the right made the decision to cast the media and academia as the enemy and began discouraging conservatives from participating in either?

It didn't help that the Left was right about the war; it WAS stupid, with stupid objectives, stupid metrics of success, and stupid tactics (my grandfather flew fucking cargo planes over North Vietnam, because fuck logic when that's the shortest route). The only reason LBJ pursued it, confirmed from his own audio recordings, is that he didn't want to get outflanked and called a dove by conservatives, and throughout the war the Right mindlessly cheer the war without analysis or critical thought. I've read some of the opeds from the time, and it's just mindblowing how many assumptions they were making.

>>34975900
>SOF employs
But we're not talking about SOF, your argument is invalid. Not every grunt with a rifle needs to be Ranger grade.

> As for rope climbs... ass up and and over a wall obstacle.
I thought that's what the wall climb was for. You're encouraging my belief that a rope climb is pointless for a test.

>The bottom line is that the majority of the military is filled with support jobs
...As oppose to any other time in history? The ratio was even more lopsided during WW2 and before a lot of stuff got passed of to (more expensive) contractors. There is a difference now since there's so much more tech, and therefore some soldiers who are technically frontline are still expected to mostly sit and watch a screen, but still.

>>34975942
Not to mention how the right tries to portray people who might be critical of any conflicts as not caring about America or not patriotic enough.

>>34975942
>the right made the decision to cast the media and academia as the enemy

They ARE the enemy.

>>34976043
>But we're not talking about SOF

No, we're talking about developing a competent and effective fighting force, which is what SOF excels at doing through superior selection and training processes.

The average grunt doesn't have to meet the same standards while performing a given task, but they sure as hell do have to be able to perform the same tasks, regardless.

>>34976174
No, they BECAME the enemy, and again, the Right chose to make them the enemy, because there just weren't enough actual commies to be up close and scary. For instance, the LA Times supported Nixon for president every time he ran. Even in 2004, only a slight majority of newspapers supported Kerry over Bush.

>>34973001
15 Year Navy bro here.... this is spot on.

>>34976174
>thinking is bad

>>34974041
>Singapore at this time of year
>Misty
>Foggy
>Or even dark at night with all the light pollution

>>34967178
They keep looking until they either find all of the missing sailors, or a reasonable assumption can be made that they're missing at sea and presumed dead.

>>34977490
If only there was some kind of system that could be used to find other ships. Say, one that RAdiated out into the DARk.

>>34973637
>at the expense of the working man
Working man here, I can only afford healthcare because of the Medicaid expansion Obama championed.

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>>34977731

>>34977731
>Obama hooked me up with dem gimmedats!

How proud you must be.

>>34977731
>I will gladly steal your money to benefit myself

What a piece of garbage.

>>34977780
>>34977762
Yeah I'm pretty comfortable with the idea that "working for a living" shouldn't mean "has a 20 year reduced lifespan" but sure, the working class deserves to die younger for no reason other than that they earn less money. That's definitely the better system.

>>34977780
You can always go to Somalia if government bothers you.

>>34977838
So stealing from your neighbors is "government" in your opinion.

Got it.

>>34977822
>the working class deserves to die younger for no reason other than that they earn less money.

The "working class" usually has a shorter lifespan because they make stupid life decisions.

>>34977868
Yes, that is how taxation works.

>>34977875
Yep, like the decision to be born in a family that can't afford to pay for college or needs their teenagers to work to make ends meet. Those decisions are dumb as hell, and those people should all die of preventable disease. Agreed.

>>34977876
Taxation is supposed to support services for ALL citizens, like police, defense, education, and transportation infrastructure, not just worthless pieces of shit that can't fend for themselves, like you.

I bet your proud taking food out of the mouths of your neighbors children, aren't you, dirtbag?

>>34977822
Freedom means freedom to fail, too.

What incentive do people have to fend for themselves when a "government" just steals from citizens that refuse to provide from themselves?

>>34977906
Which party is it that keeps trying to cut funding for WIC again?

>>34977900
>the college meme

>>34977900
You ever think that "education" and "healthcare" is so fucking expensive exactly because leftists steal tax dollars to buy votes with and fund the system? No, you haven't, have you, dirtbag?

It's a never ending cycle. The medical community knows the politicians will steal money, so they jack up their prices, which in turn leads the political scum to increase taxes. The same shit applies to our "education" system.

You truly are a moron, but a great goyim.

>>34977924
Should be BOTH parties.

Funding whores getting knocked up out of wedlock is pretty much what destroyed the black family and community, and it's slowly destroying the white community.

FUCK "women and infants". If the bitch and man can't afford to feed their demon spawn, then they should be put up for adoption.

>>34977913
Asshats like you is what there is a "promote the general welfare" directive in the US Constitution. "Failure" should not mean "suffering and death for you and your family" and it is generally in societies best interest to help people recover and learn from their failures and try again or take a different path instead of stuffing fingers in their ears and humming to block out the screams.

>>34974688
He was dying for a shit huh?

>>34977938
Interesting view. So, how do you explain every other Western government funding healthcare for all of their citizens, better healthcare outcomes and metrics, and half or less the costs per procedure?

>>34966422
Jam.

>>34977962
>"promote the general welfare"

Doesn't mean mandatory government handouts, you douchebag, it means providing a stable society that abides by law and order.

You obviously haven't been keeping up with current events, but the criminal welfare leeches in our society are reproducing more than the law abiding self sufficient citizens in our society, and they're reproducing new generations of welfare leeches.

Your naive idealism is what destroyed the black family, and is largely responsible for the increasing rate of white single mothers in our society.

You're a cowardly idiot afraid to live life without a government safety net, a leech on society, and should be culled with the rest of your ilk.

>>34977944
Which party is it that keeps trying to block sensible sex ed in favor of abstinence only sex ed, despite its ties with higher teenage birthrates?

Which party is it that keeps making abortions harder to get?

Who will adopt the babies in your scenario?

>>34977979
First, none of those nanny states would have been able to do any of that without the security provided by the U.S. post WW II.

Second, the standard of living of those nanny state people is far inferior to the average American citizen. The houses they actually own are smaller, they have less electronics, they don't own as many vehicles, property, and they pay almost twice as much as we do in taxes.

Fuck off with your nanny state bullshit.

>>34967675
They hacked the election. Anything is possible.

>>34973397

Ex-RAN here, try being woken up by an alarm in the middle of the night that only goes off when noxious gasses are detected and you have merely seconds to don an oxygen mask until you're dead.

>>34978018
>Which party is it that keeps trying to block sensible sex ed in favor of abstinence only sex ed..

The party that expects PARENTS to do their fucking jobs and not depend on mommy government. Abstinence is 100% effective in preventing pregnancy. PERIOD.

>Which party is it that keeps making abortions harder to get?

The party that expects people to be held accountable for their actions, instead of being
allowed to simply murder children they don't want.

>Who will adopt the babies in your scenario?

All the fucking citizens that are adopting Asian, African, and Russian children because the adoption process is so fucked up here.

>>34978018
>Which party is it that keeps making abortions harder to get?
Shut the fuck up. If anything, nobody's fucking tax dollars should go to killing womb fruit and that's all that matters.

>>34978023
>Any of that without the security AND infrastructure AND food supplies given by the US post post WW II
ftfy

>>34978094
Thank you, sir.

Fucking Euro scum should have been left to rot.

>>34966422
Only in the movies. Hols get punched. The compartment your in that gets hit is like being in a 60 Mph car crash without a seat-belt and the compartment fills. The bulkheads joining it are crinkled and no longer watertight so they have to be closed off a few compartments away from the collision. Not everyone in the compartments below the water ling don't make it out due to unconsciousness so they die. the personnel in the compartment Open to the sea get killed from the impact and depending on location and size of opening may or may not get washed out.

>>34978023
>Second, the standard of living of those nanny state people is far inferior to the average American citizen. The houses they actually own are smaller, they have less electronics, they don't own as many vehicles
Want to know how I know you're fucking idiot. Standard of living is not measured in how big your house is or how many gadgets you owns. It's utilities, access to healthcare and education, government transparency, freedom of the press and a hundred other things.

>>34978073
>The party that expects PARENTS to do their fucking jobs and not depend on mommy government. Abstinence is 100% effective in preventing pregnancy. PERIOD.
Holy shit, you're deluded.
http://www.siecus.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=Page.ViewPage&PageID=1195
>>34978081
>>Which party is it that keeps making abortions harder to get?
What about rape, incest or threats to the life of the mother?

>>34978073
I have a question: Are you a virgin by any chance?

>>34973654
Ossiferz, Phil
Died with a pint of semen in his stomach. RIP

>>34967107
None of the guys I know on ships out of Bremerton or Everett have said their ships are more than 5% undermanned.

Source for 30%?

>>34974344
His joke was actually brettygud

>>34978424
>It's utilities
Cheaper in the U.S.
> access to healthcare
Best system on the planet is in the U.S. due to free enterprise and competition.
>education
The U.S. system is the ONLY system to have successfully engineered a craft capable of sending man to the moon and bringing him back alive.
>government transparency
meaningless outside of totalitarian regimes, as all politicians are corrupt
>freedom of the press
Unlike Euro's, we don't lock people up for "hate speech"
> and a hundred other things.
That we would excell in.

You'll have to try harder than that, child.

>>34978431
Matter of fact, I'm a father. Which is why I oppose all nanny state bullshit, as it creates a generation of losers, like you.

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>>34978431
>it's the magic pussy argument

You must be a bitch, or a bitch in a mans body, as only a bitch thinks her pussy is some kind of miracle cure for anything.

>sailors now vlog onboard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUYJUOVlZOY

>>34966422
You're pretty much right, but this is why they stay missing. See the one pixel in this picture? That's a head, from 500ft, a common search altitude. Now that is the only time you're going to see the person in a seven or eight hour sortie for perhaps ten seconds doing perhaps 4 miles per minute. Good luck.

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>>34978603
Forgot the picture like a retard

>>34974942
>So you think the military is combat ineffective? I suppose you never served, but will talk someone's ear off about how we can "fix" the nation, right?

I've done three combat tours, 2 in Afghanistan and 1 in Iraq, with a stint in Korea as well.

95% of our military is combat ineffective. Afghanistan consisted of fighting from entrenched FOBs or bases, then calling in CAS. Or 4 guys with AKs pinning down an entire platoon on patrol, who we just called CAS on. Iraq was spent driving around shooting from turrets, or fighting from fixed positions (more often getting fucking rocketed or mortared).

The vast majority of the armed forces is dead weight. When I was in garrison I spent more time in "ok don't rape", "womyn are stronk too", and "respect transfags" trainings than I did actually training to do my job.

Firearm handling is a fucking joke. Morale is a fucking joke, 100% because of shit put in place under Obama (Ive been in since 2002, I watched it take an absolute nose dive in 2010).

The Obama administration decided to use the armed forces as a platform to push social engineering experiments. And that killed us. Our only advantage is our massive technological lead, but considering how fucked our procurement, R&D, and general relationship with Lockheed and Co is I don't expect that to last either.

>>34978546
>Cheaper in the U.S.
Certainly not. Romania has significantly faster and cheaper internet (which is now classified as a utility) than the US. Not to mention frakking.
>Best system on the planet is in the U.S. due to free enterprise and competition.
Swing and a miss. It's super expensive. It's only the best if you're top tier in the money bracket.

http://health.usnews.com/wellness/health-buzz/articles/2017-07-17/report-us-has-the-worst-health-care-system-compared-to-these-countries
http://www.commonwealthfund.org/interactives/2017/july/mirror-mirror/
>The U.S. system is the ONLY system to have successfully engineered a craft capable of sending man to the moon and bringing him back alive.
Courtesy of the US military, billions of dollars and a health dose of German expats.
>meaningless outside of totalitarian regimes, as all politicians are corrupt
Oh you're one of those people...
>meaningless outside of totalitarian regimes, as all politicians are corrupt
Sure, if you like the law not being applied evenly across the board, then I guess transparency is not important.
>Unlike Euro's, we don't lock people up for "hate speech"
They don't either, they DO (like us) lock people up if there is reason to believe that violence might resort out of it. Case in point: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41047166
>That we would excell in.
Not really, man.

>>34978556
>Which is why I oppose all nanny state bullshit, as it creates a generation of losers, like you.
What if she is down on her luck and needs assistance? What if she's assaulted and learned she's carrying a kid? What then man?

>>34975762
>. I wouldn't think rope, wall obstacles, and kit equivalents would be a significant cost, but I'm not a bean counter

Because you're a normal person, not a government acquisitions specialist who thinks getting staplers for $80 a pop is a "good deal"

>>34978581
>You must be a bitch, or a bitch in a mans body, as only a bitch thinks her pussy is some kind of miracle cure for anything.
No, i just think it's weird that someone would choose abstinence only education. It's literally reducing worth based on whats in between your legs and how much use it's seen. It might not relate to you, but in my experience, people who follow that route of education tend to be kinda weird/creepy.
>The Obama administration decided to use the armed forces as a platform to push social engineering experiments. And that killed us. Our only advantage is our massive technological lead, but considering how fucked our procurement, R&D, and general relationship with Lockheed and Co is I don't expect that to last either.
Truman did it too, as did Lincoln, and the US military kept on keeping on after that.

Maybe if Republicans didn't want us to get involved in every bodies business, we wouldn't be in such a sorry state. Or maybe we should do what the Europeans do, which is still a large amo8unt of money on training and selection, which would result in a better fighting force.

>>34977731
Working man here, my healthcare went from $120 a month to $340 for just me thanks to Obamacare

>>34973602
It had nothing to do with him, Bush, or Trump.

It had to do with a culture of promoting senior officers based on their ability to toe the line, wipe their chin, and "make the numbers work" by cutting essential personnel when they were given prospective budget cuts to either pay for the MENA wars or buy fancy new boondoggles.

>>34966422
Places where the ship was crushed contained sailors. Most likely fused with the hull.

>>34978655
>Truman did it too,

Please explain to me how integrating black men in to fighting forces is at all the same as opening up the military to mentally ill people, reducing physical and training standards to accommodate women, and a whole host of other shit? Hell, who's got that picture showing how much help the TWO STRONK WOMYN had to pass Ranger School?

>as did Lincoln
Caved to political pressure and allowed the formation of black units established by private funders. Also allowed black soldiers due to a major lack of manpower. Sorry, are we so lacking in volunteers we need to recruit fat females and mentally ill people?

>US military kept on keeping on after that.
Considering we were woefully unprepared for conflicts in the late 19th century and WWI...

>>34978623
>Certainly not.
Certainly so, pumpkin.

I lived in Italy for 3 years, and all the utes were more expensive. It was the same in Germany.

>Swing and a miss.
Nope, it's a grand slam. That's why people from all over the world come to the U.S. for our doctors.

>What if she's assaulted

What if? What if? WHAT IF?

That's why family and charity exists.

We're done, white knight.

>>34978655
>Or maybe we should do what the Europeans do, which is still a large amo8unt of money on training and selection, which would result in a better fighting force.
Absolutely, I agree.

If you can't do the job, get the fuck out.

No more women who "suddenly get pregnant" 2 months before deploying.

No more women who don't do their jobs and give fuck all to regs because they know they're nigh untouchable

No more mentally ill people who are non-deployable due to their medical issues.

And start holding people accountable for their fuck ups, from private up to general.

>>34978655
>Truman did it too, as did Lincoln, and the US military kept on keeping on after that.

And since Truman, we've decisively won exactly ONE large scale military action, gulf war I, and people can argue that we didn't win that one either since Saddam was left in power, and it lead to gulf war II: Insurgent boogaloo.

Meanwhile, we've failed to achieve our military goals in Korea, Vietnam, A-stan, Iraq, Libya, and so far, Syria.

I wonder why...

>>34970687
>>34970724

https://www.scribd.com/document/356624545/US-Navy-Preliminary-Supplemental-Inquiry-Into-USS-Fitzgerald-Collision

>>34977906
>I bet your proud taking food out of the mouths of your neighbors children, aren't you, dirtbag?
If he's healthy, he works. If he works, he pays taxes. If he's not wasting money on inefficient health care, that's more money he can put into the economy.

You're either too dense to think that out for yourself, or you're too crazy to be taken seriously; either way tough nuts for you.

>>34978667
That sucks. Are you sure you didn't have one of those junk policies that didn't actually cover anything? Those got axed under the ACA. Where you live is also important: a number of states refused the Medicaid expansion just to fuck with their citizens. That would've covered most people.

In any case, mandatory insurance isn't the best solution to the problem to begin with.

>>34978674
Eh, Congress fucking around with the budget over the past six years hasn't helped either.

>>34976174
While certain elements of the lefthand media and academia could arguably be considered "enemies" the vast majority is not and is not any less commited to bettering this country than their right leaning counterpart. They can still get things wrong or be on the wrong side of issues without them being "enemies". The problem gets so much worse when you paint with such broad strokes

>>34967675
>I heard that there was hacking involved possibly, but that sounds like an excuse
I heard it was gps spoofing, not taking control of the ship.

>>34978018
Not to mention that banning abortions keep poor minority birthrates high and forces them to raise more degenerate welfare children. Government sponsered abortion should be at the top of every republican healthcare, budget, national security, etc. bill.

>>34978081
This is dumb, its like you are proantifa

>>34966422
The spaces flooded were berthing spaces. In order to save the ship you close watertight doors once everyone is out of the copartment, or more specifically when no one else seems to be there. The compartments remain flooded and closed until they can be reopened, at which point they're still flooded so divers are sent in to evaluate damage and identify human remains (and rescue survivors, if by some chance they exist).

>>34977906
We would have that ib healthcare but everyone right of center refused the idea of public option or single payer. The bastardized, semi functional system we have now is a direct result of ultimatums between the right and the left instead of constructive complementary compromise

>>34977944
Why do I get the feeling you tortured small animals at one point in your life?

>>34973981
>MkII
When was the Mk I MOD 0 replaced and where can I get the new version?

>>34966422
TR3B
R
3
B

>>34966422
they were asking to many questions.

>>34979126
Probably because you're a giant pussy?

>>34979126
Just one point?

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>35 of 42 sailors were able to get out of this with only battle lanterns while water rushed through.

Say what you will about driving, but at least the navy has damn good egress training.

>>34970584
This. How retarded is the navy? Do you not see a fucking frigate driving towards you? I swear if I join the navy, imma just bring a sleeping bag and sleep on deck or something.

>>34966798
Simone call gibs, he owns me a favor...

>>34974037
>hoping your fucking retarded coworkers MAYBE do their job is a "career risk."

>>34974942
Why does the U.S. care about other nations? We solo 90% of modern infantry combat. With due respect we dont have much to learn from "other armies" doing "okay".

>>34970680
That's horseshit, there's no way that the entire ship's crew would be asleep on a military vessel. Someone should be awake enough to see a big ass ship coming their way in open seas.

>>34973728
>running ragged
We're still talking about the navy right?

>>34974037
Getting hit by a commercial vessel shouldn't even be considered as a occupational hazard on a military vessel. What the fuck were they doing at the helm?

>>34977731
>buying into reddit propaganda
The aca DRAMATICALLY increases the cost of healthcare. While the U.S. healthcare is the most expensive on the planet and demand went down, prices rose faster than inflation under the aca. It doesnt do anything remotly resembling reducing healthcare costs.

>>34981484
>What the fuck were they doing at the helm?

Exactly what their chain of command trained them to do....suck as sailors.

There's absolutely zero excuse for a U.S. warship to hit another large vessel in the open sea the way they did, and to do so is a direct result of incompetent and negligent leadership at ALL levels on that bridge. They obviously established a poisonous culture aboard that bridge and ship, as this incident could have been prevented by any number of competent sailors, but it wasn't.

Now people are dead, and equipment is fucked up.