NFA 41F

>>34958293
>NFA 41F
Better for individuals, worse for trusts.

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Because fingerprints and personal background check are now mandatory for ALL PERSONS NAMED IN A TRUST.

Even if it were free (which boy howdy it ain't) that's a gigantic pain in the ass designed solely to curtail the use of trusts as a method of end-running the ridiculous and fruitless registration process.

why would you even pay to form a trust? why not just do it yourself, I'm posting this because I'm thinking about getting a SBR scorpion evo pistol.

does it need to be engraved if filing as an individual?

>>34958293
Cant submit form 1's at midnight at my house anymore.

>>34958314
Not sure. Made mine with a pirated copy of quicken will maker. Maybe if I had tens of thousands of monies on it I might consider something more robust, but if I'm dead and a 3-4 thousand gets lost...fuck it.

>>34958332
Huh? What engraved on what? S/N?

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>>34958314
This is what I did too: >>34958366
I have ~15 NFA items approved on it and the language is simple enough that posthumous disposition should be no problem.

>>34958332
Engraving rules aren't different for individual or trust but depending on how you interpret the law neither needs to be engraved unless you are selling the firearm as-is. In the case of a silencer, engraving would be mandatory if you ever wanted to sell it because who would but just a tube with no baffles? But for a Form 1 SBR or SBS, no engraving would be needed unless you intend to sell it. If, for example, you took an SBR AR15 and stripped the bare lower receiver, you could sell that as a non-NFA item without extra Form 1 manufacturing info.

Supposedly.

I don't have any engravings.

>>34958293
There's 11 people on my trust, having to get finger print cards and passport photos for all of us is burdensome.

>>34958373
I thought SBR's had to be engraved with information or something?

I'm new to this and not sure where to start

>>34958380

So if I file as an individual, and I have no intention of ever selling it, It doesn't need to be engraved?

>>34958398
According to some peoples interpretation of the law that's correct. None of my Form 1s are engraved, not that that's proof, I've never been arrested or searched.

Some people think that all Form 1 firearms must be engraved, in a certain way, permanently.

>>34958413

Ok sweet,I appreciate your help a lot, one last question.

I'm picking the CZ scorpion because it seems easiest to do, buy the pistol, get a approved form 1, then I simply buy the SBR/922R kit with the buttstock and put it on right?
Say in the future I wanted something like a AK or something that had a lot more involved gunsmithing wise that I couldn't do myself, could it be sent anywhere to get the barrel chopped and become a NFA weapon? or does it need a class 3 dealer how does all that work.

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>>34958430
I believe that is correct, that the CZ Scorpion pistols can very easily accept an off the shelf CZ stock. Though I have no personal experience with them.

AKs are hard because they're riveted and have to be destructively disassembled for things like folding stock installs or barrel swaps. A lot of people, myself included, buy pistols and use screw-in stocks to avoid the more difficult and expensive methods. But then you won't end up with the real triangle folder look.

The best way would probably be to start with a receiver blank and build (or pay someone to build) your own from scratch, drilling the receiver to fit a folding stock trunnion from the start rather than trying to retrofit a pistol or trying to chop a rifle barrel.

Again I have no experience doing those things, I took the coward's way out by bolting an Ace stock on.

>>34958380
hey guise lets make something that performs like a glock 26 but is way bigger

>>34958293
Trusts were mostly just used to get around having your CLEO having to sign off on your Form 1 or Form 4.

>>34958673
I did mine so I could borrow my fellow trustees my stuff.

>>34958673
that and being able to leave stuff to your family once you died. instead of having to transfer everything a second time before you kicked the bucket.

that being said what happens to NFA items belonging to an individual? do you have to destroy them?

>>34958380
I wanna make a 11-1/2" AR that takes colt mags. Convince me why this is a good or bad idea.

>>34959722
They can legally be held by the named or court-assigned executor of a will until dispersed, so whomever is named executor would be the person to receive the locked cases of the items until transfers are approved.

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I don't get why fingerprints are required. If I'm ever in a scenario where I kill someone and my fingerprints are there that means I'm involved in a defensive shooting and am calling a lawyer and police. For everything else there's pic related.

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lol

>>34960123
it's for confirming identity you silly boi, or did something change and it's now possible for humans to change their prints?

>>34960123
>leather/loose fiber gloves that can leave trace evidence behind
>not unpowdered extra thick latex gloves
nigger tier.

>>34960200
>he doesn't wear latex gloves under leather gloves
Do you even homocide?

>>34959722
individual owned items can be transferred for free after the death of the owner, but the time to wait on the transfer is still a pain in the ass. the trust just allows that to happen in perpetuity since the owners of the items are trustees and so any trustee can use the items owned by the trust and keep it in their possession.

>>34960200
you leave recoverable fingerprints inside latex gloves
uninformed tier

>>34960153
>4 Gauge
TOZ-123?

>>34961372
Making it into a bonafide KS-23

>>34961282
Because I'm just going to take those off and leave them at th scene? Put in plastic bag and toss in any random dumpster.

>>34958380
ALL FORM 1 FIREARMS NEED TO BE ENGRAVED

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMnYEW54Ucc&t=3s

>>34961560
where are you sourcing the 23mm rifled barrels from?

>>34961759
Every lead I had ran cold, so I'm keeping it smoothbore.

>>34961801
nigga buy the 23mm aircraft cannon kit off of apex
shits only $1300
alternatively these guys https://kriegerbarrels.com/boltorder?se=oo&ra=1885202578 offer rifled 4bore barrels

>>34961875
>only
Also those 4bore aren't the same dimensions.

>>34961722
Yeah right prove it

>>34960200
Lol this isn't CSI, they aren't gonna dig that deep unless you kill some super rich person and there's pressure from their family or you kill a high ranking member of government.

>>34961886
I thought that the KS-23 was made from rejected 23mm aircraft cannon barrels

also the company I linked makes custom barrels
I'm sure they'd tweak the bore/land/groove diameter if you paid them to

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>>34958380
>>34961722
So to engrave or not? Wtf I got an approved SBR I haven't put together cause I thought It needed to be engraved

>>34961915
The 23mm, yes. But I'm not paying $2000 for a barrel.

Having one custom made would also be prohibitively expensive as it would require brand new tooling that would only ever be used once, not to mention having to fabricate the locking lugs, takedown ring, and front sight post.

Its just not worth it and is rather chop the original at no extra expense. Nothing wrong with smoothbore for a shotgun in the first place.

>>34962023
Oh also additionally those barrels from apex are chopped into sections. I sent am email to apex about the length of the first section a week or two ago as it may not be enough but have gotten no response yet.

>>34961961
I dont think most people do. I just used what ever the manufacturer had...but I also shoot on private land. As long as you have a stamp with the serial matching I wouldnt be too worried. But thats just me.

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>>34961961
ATF rulings, notices, letters and briefings are not law. They only define where the line is and how far the ATF would pursue an indictment, at that current time and with their current understanding. They are not legal precedents or actual law, no judges have been involved and no court rulings have been recorded. The ATF flip flops on their decisions more than John Kerry so their opinion is not worth much, the guy in the video even says you can't trust what the ATF tells you. So until someone with a good lawyer goes to court over Form 1 marking violations (which hasn't happened yet because people willing to jump through stupid legal hoops are not criminals who get caught with illegal firearms) we will not know for certain.

Ignorance is of course not an excuse to break the law, but good faith is always a good defense. So if you're feeling timid, mark your Form 1 firearms. I had some trigger guards engraved as a half-measure at one point but I even took those off. I'm not fucking up my guns after I paid my tax, submitted my form, and did things legally. The gun is no more or less identifiable as the exact one named by serial number and manufacturer on my Form 1 with or without my trust name and location. That's retarded.

tl;dr Fuck the ATF.
tl;dr Don't listen to me I'm not a lawyer.

>>34961912
>unless you kill some super rich person

Unless you drop some dindu perp and the BLM folks decide to make an example of you.

>>34962051
>>34962094
I never intent to sell such SBR and according to the article below you don't need to engrave unless you intent to sell. Appreciate the feedback

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/01/foghorn/do-you-need-to-engrave-your-form-1ed-sbr/

>>34962094
What about engraving the barrel? Is that a no-go for ARs because of the separate receivers?

>>34962023
I hear what you're saying

you could have the original barrel rifled by someone with an old style sinebar rifling machine

>>34962299
Why rifle it at all, though?

>>34962307

>>34961560
>Making it into a bonafide KS-23
>bonafide KS-23

Seems as good place as I can get to ask. How hard is it for me to add people to my trust?

>>34962327
Are you also going to be butthurt because I have to resin cast my own furniture too and that won't be exactly original either?

I get it though, its like converting an SL8 and calling it a G36. But curb your autism for a hot second its not like I've got many options. Smoothbore is better for shot pattern anyway.

>>34962335
However hard it will be to get them to submit prints and passport photos

>>34958314
>typo
>thousand of dollars of funz disappear into legal limbo

>>34962598
>typo
>form gets rejected for being an insufferable faggot

>>34962562
Do they need prints if it's a modification of a older trust?

>>34962280
It has to be on the serialized receiver if you're going to engrave it. Barrels can be removed, they don't want that. Otherwise it would be fine to engrave a trigger guard or dust cover.