Are bolters a possibility with today's technology?

File: 1287739508.jpg (18KB, 532x335px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 532x335px

When I think of bolters, I always get reminded of the Gyrojet, which is basically a semi-auto pistol with rocket-propelled bullets.
Science probably doesn't work like this, but if you'd scale it up and make the bullets explosive somehow, you'd have something that pretty much resembles a bolter.

The bolter is basically just a gyrojet pistol so yes, it's possible. However, if it were built to spec then a human wouldn't be able to use it. They're designed for people with super-human physiques wearing power armor. A normal human wouldn't even be able to wrap his hand around the grip.

>>34949536
>That one picture of the SCAR-L slowly morphing into a WH40K Bolter
as close as you're going to get

Certainly seems like something we could make today if we cared to spend the money. I doubt it's manufacturing capability that's the issue but whether they're worthwhile weapons.
>Increased size and weight of rounds = reduced number carried
>Increase in potential points of failure
>Bullets already do the job against infantry and bolts couldn't fit a payload to make them work against armour.
>Cost
>COST
I guess maybe improvements to explosive yield allowing a worthwhile boom to fit in each round might make them worthwhile.

Rocket propulsion could reduce recoil and provide a flatter tragectory so there's that.

File: detail_60_DSC03126.jpg (245KB, 720x480px) Image search: [Google]

245KB, 720x480px

>>34949609
>SCAR

Na, we can do better. SBS a Fostech Origin12 and slap a layer of plastic or aluminum over it to make it look like a bolter. Then load it up with slugs.

File: Bolter.jpg (297KB, 1155x603px) Image search: [Google]

297KB, 1155x603px

>>34949655

>>34949536
Yes we could make it.

It's just not worth the effort. Regular bullets kill good enough, and you can carry a lot more shots per mass/volume.

It's worthless against vehicles, because we have shaped charges small enough to fit in a 40mm. 40k doesn't because it's based on WW2, plus or minus a war depending on what the writers feel like.

File: BoltersAreFineBro.gif (137KB, 854x487px) Image search: [Google]

137KB, 854x487px

>>34949599
You what son?

>>34949697
According to the lore, normal humans like imperial guards have lasguns because the bolters are too heavy and have too much recoil to be handled by anyone but genetically enhanced humans in power armor. Maybe scaled-down bolters exist for humans? Idk.

>>34949711
>Maybe scaled-down bolters exist for humans?

That's exactly the case. Space marines use .75 caliber boltguns, human ones used by guardsmen and sisters of battle are about .50~. The recoil from a spess mahreen boltgun to a normal human is either horribly uncontrollable or downright lethal depending on how grimdark the author is feeling.

>>34949738
>>34949711
That's unique to the rpg guys.
There's never been anything in any of the Gameworkshop products to suggest that humans can't fire space marine bolters or to suggest that they're of different calibre (in fact I saw a table somewhere saying all bolters are .75, cept heavy bolters at 1.0)

>>34949623
Its worth it if you're fighting armies of green gorillas or insects or men, all the size of cars, and all wearing the equivalent of at least level IV plates backed with kevlar all over their bodies.

>>34949810
Not with the amount of energy we'd currently be able to get out of the payload or fuel.

>>34949793
Humans can fire bolters but bolters are really impractical to man your every day guardsmen with because they are expensive as fuck, and the ammo is huge, and more difficult to manufacture, so much so that the best way to fight space marines are to cut off there logistics and supply lines

>>34949536
No. The Gyrojet was a piece of shit in the 70's and it's a piece of shit now.

It'll continue being a piece of shit in the future.
Rocket propelled small arms like these are not viable.

>>34949536
against what exactly? they are close range anti-material weapons with shit accuracy complicated operation and fuck expensive ammunition and very limited effect. what would be the purpose?

>>34949711
that's bullshit, altho astartes bolters weight at least 20kgs and have a handle that only fits armored fists comfortably so using them would be awkward.

>>34949738
>The recoil from a spess mahreen boltgun to a normal human is either horribly uncontrollable or downright lethal
yeah no it's neither really if the bolters would fire rounds with that much muzzle energy that exceeds a .50cal machine guns the entire gyrojet and speshul ammo thing would be pointless the bolter would rip anything apart with regular slugs.

>>34949573
And it'd be just as inaccurate then.

>>34950200
40k weapons are extremely fucking retarded, what do you expect?

>>34949623
>provide a flatter tragectory
Not if they build up their velocity over time and have extremely slow muzzle velocities.

>>34950251
Shit that isn't as retarded as noguns limeys, but it is.

File: IMG_5419.gif (40KB, 494x411px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 494x411px

>>34949536
Best I can say to make it worthwhile would be giving either 7.62.51, 6.5 Grendel, 12 Gauge, or .50 and up a base bleed. Not a gyrojet in the slightest, but it does give a nice drag reduction.

>>34949697
>>34949793
One simply has to look at the models to see that marine bolters and normal human bolters are not the same.

File: 635802649450706739-XM25.jpg (19KB, 540x405px) Image search: [Google]

19KB, 540x405px

yeah totally feasible. IIRC bolters were 0.75 or 1.0 caliber shells. 25mm=0.98in, so there's your ammo. XM-25 is semi automatic so there's your action. The only thing needed is the rocket boost which is possible and used on several weapons

Gyrojet: all rocket
RPG-7: supercaliber warhead on a 40mm rocket with a powder booster
Carl Gustav: 80mm recoilless rifle that has some rocket-assisted ammo (FFV651 ammo)
Base bleed artillery: gas generator at the base of the shell that decreases drag
Rocket assisted projectile: big boy version of the base bleed

so yup totally doable

>>34950259
Actually the 40k bolters use an initial propellant charge that gives the bolt a considerable muzzle velocity, and is why you still see them eject casings. The gyrojet-like apparatus is to give it a flatter trajectory and maintain it's energy as it travels. Despite what every self described ballistic engineer on /k/ seems to think, bolters are less impractical than you might expect. Obviously implimenting them in exactly the same way 40k does would be bad, but it's really no different than those 25mm OICW weapons but with a tiny rocket motor in the base to improve the ballistics and range, which itself has also been invented.

>>34951623
That seems like it would be extremely difficult to make the rocket propulsion not alter the trajectory.

>>34950636
Basically what this guy is saying. Making an exact replica of the bolter would be silly, but the individual concepts are extant and putting them together wouldn't really be difficult. Hardly something that would replace a rifle, but imagine an XM-25 with similar range to an m4

File: 1502680343988m.jpg (156KB, 1024x811px) Image search: [Google]

156KB, 1024x811px

>>34949655
I wonder how hard it would be to make explosive gyrojet 12 gauge rounds

>>34951655
Well, you could encase a small rocket inside a shotgun shell and have the primer ignite the motor. Possible, I guess.

>>34951655
not that hard, but the gyrojet thing is only useful for longer ranges and takes up a lot of space especially if you want an explosive load.
the magazine on that particular gun is not wide enough to accommodate such rounds imo.

>>34950350
One simply has to look at the models to see that guardsmen and vanilla space marines are the same height.

>>34949536
It's possible, but there's really no reason to beyond faggotry. For one thing a shaped charge would work infintely better than an APHE, and no matter how you spin it a rocket propelled round is the worst of all options.

>>34949793
two things about bolter caliber if it was truly -75 caliber only like 6-7 shot would fit the average magazine depicted on images. but certainly no more than 12 on the big double stacks. that's ridiculously bad for a full auto weapon. it's like BRATBRATBRATBRATBRATBRAT.. oh wait switch mag... BRATBRATBRATBRATBRATBRAT... shit again...
space marines would spend more time with mag switches and reloads than actual fighting. i don't even see any of them carrying spare mags in a harness or anything.

>>34951724
I've got cad files for 3 1/2 12 gauge slugs that have an impact fuse that goes to an explosive charge of your choice. The impact fuse was basically a nigger rigged primer and punch system that I couldn't test so I have no idea how reliable it was, but the whole design was simple enough that you could have easily case the slugs from lead.

The problem besides the actual impact primmer, was the explosive itself. RDX seemed optimal, but was too stable to be set off by a primer. Makes me wish I had the FFL to make explosive ordnance, not to mention the land and gravel pit to test it.

Honestly, a 8 gauge is a better choice for this sort of stuff.

>>34951886
oh and the other thing is the usual pictures showing spent brass cases are no bigger than rifle cases today.

>>34951933
>>34949536
also not the ejection port on that gun being too narrow for a .22lr let alone the huge ass brass butts shown beside it.

File: Tech priest.jpg (43KB, 400x400px) Image search: [Google]

43KB, 400x400px

Yes, a bolter is basically just a cased gyrojet round using the case as a kicker charge to give it a respectable muzzle velocity before the jet propulsion takes effect.

Problem is unless you have a planet of engineers and manufacturers who are literally, religiously dedicated to quality control your accuracy is going to be dildos.

>>34949711
Bolters are supposed to be recoiless. Fan-fiction aside.

>>34951958
>Kicker charge
Nice head cannon, m8

>>34951958
nah the least of it's problems are that it's complicated or that we couldn't do better quality control than those imbecile techno-niggers.

it's the cost there is no way the performance increase would justify them. the 20mm grenades fired from shotguns fail miserably to achieve any anti-material or anti-personal effect to the satisfactory degree of used in indirect fire. in direct fire application it's fucking overkill. there is no point in shooting a man with a 20mm explosive shell. a .50cal mbg hit will kill him just the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBntnnCFvOk
this weapon is more complicated than a bolter but the ammunition is plentiful and cheap and will fuck you up just the same.

>>34951958
>religiously dedicated
There isn't anybody who isn't religiously dedicated in 40k.

>>34951999

Except its not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_nEi2SjrOk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsvCLG1QZjs

>>34952044
(You)

>>34951924
>explosive
Gyrojet is a rocket.

File: dc073a4d8abcdd3b62cdaa12e6993695.jpg (135KB, 1000x907px) Image search: [Google]

135KB, 1000x907px

We have the technology to make such things its just that they're not really feasible/practical for much of anything, maybe when we get power armor we can look into it again

Why make a bolter when we could make a rifle that fires howetzer rounds automaricly it also comes in magazines and looks like an over sized m16

>>34952406
12mm and 13mm Gyrojet cartridges did not carry explosive payloads, they were basically just solid missiles with rocket propulsion.

>>34949536
America version
http://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/products/pike/

>>34949711
Scaled down bolters do exist for normal guardsmen but they're rarer as bolters are an expensive piece of kit to give an expendable guardsman. They're mostly used in pistol form by officers or rifle form by stormtroopers.

The reason guardsmen are given a lasgun is because they're cheaply made and don't require constant resupply as the power cells can be recharged via solar power (or in a pinch rapidly overcharged by throwing them in a fire, though this breaks the power cell)

>>34950176
I think the modern battlefield would see them put to use against lightly armoured vehicles like the Raufoss Mk 211 round is being used. It's essentially a bolt round without the rocket.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raufoss_Mk_211

>>34952027
Papa Smurf would like a word with you.

>>34951652
I thought they had similar ranges (500m).

Well, seeing that I'm hoping to go to a military college and take the Engineering Programme next year, maybe I can waste taxpayer money to develop the first ever bolter. Wish me luck, /k/.

>>34950176
aliumz and shieeet

>>34953468
Wait, is that just an American BZT round?

>>34957279
I... don't think so. The BZT is an API round and the Raufoss is an HEIAP round.

>>34949536
Bolters, when it comes down to it, are large caliber Gyrojet guns with a conventional "kicker charge" and a regular barrel to give it more stability and velocity out of the muzzle.

From there, the projectile is a Gyrojet bullet, with a penetrator, an impact fuse, and explosive. The projectile's penetrator penetrates through the target's armor before detonating.

We have all of the things needed to make the bolter, but they're fuckhueg so the only people who could use it are DARPA's super secret super soldiers or a relatively small autism mecha.

File: 1502716571764.png (35KB, 780x532px) Image search: [Google]

35KB, 780x532px

>>34952027
What you say?

File: hk33 lower aguila slug.jpg (83KB, 349x636px) Image search: [Google]

83KB, 349x636px

>>34949536

40k is awesome, you don't even need to play to enjoy it.

Space marine terminator armor was based on the armor used when performing fusion reactor maintenance from the Dark Age of Technology.

It's basically just personal protection for engineers not something meant for war. It would be like an turning Osha approved hardhat into gear for elite soldiers.

Also their most popular tank is essentially just a farm tractor they stuck a big gun on. It all has to do with humans not being able/allowed to innovate anymore. It's like we advanced to Star Trek tech (actually probably more than Star Trek), then SHTF and 99% of the tech went away. And now there's legit evil gods, fungus orcs, the zerg but worse, and some evil mechinized shit that wants to destroy humanity. And humanity is basically run by uber conservative catholics that are super into halloween and death metal.

So we know that it would theoretically be possible to make one, but how big would it be, and would it be a straight-walled cartridge, or a bottleneck? I'm pretty sure the way it's designed, it should be straight walled though. In that case, how much kicker charge would be sufficient to propel the bullet to a lethal velocity as soon as it leaves the barrel, and how much of the bolt should be fuel for the rocket propulsion and how much should be meant for the explosive payload?

>>34950242
The gyrojets were accurate. It's just that the final batches that they made before shutting down had QC tossed right out the window. They weren't viable to begin with though; it's pants on head retarded to have expensive munitions and a cheap platform. It's better logistically to go the other way around, since ammo is much more expendable.

File: gallery-1445437559-pike-munition-cover-final.jpg (51KB, 980x490px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 980x490px

>>34949536
The closest thing lorewise would be the pike.

File: 1503089272491.jpg (26KB, 531x588px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 531x588px

>>34958891
Perfect.

>>34958980
I enjoyed that post.

>>34950200
Space Marines fight some pretty fucking strange shit.

>>34950200
>rip anything apart with regular slugs

They dont fight humans or animals, they fight strange shit.

>Terminator style regenerating skeletons

>fungus monsters with a skull thick enough to stop bullets who you basically have to either decapitate or blow up

>Xenomorph style aliens

>literal daemons

>>34959706
That's... basically a bolt round. I'm impressed that something like that was actually made.

>>34951886
Space marines are drugged up, augmented to hell and back, and crazy fast. They have super-super-human reflexes and don't have anywhere near a similar missed shot to hit/kill ratio a guardsman would. I argue that while reloads may be common, space marines kill fast enough, or move fast enough, for that to generally not be an issue, with an emphasis on generally.

>>34962070
>theres a reason they never took off
cost is the reason simple as that. to produce them in reliable quality is expensive compared to traditional bullet and their external ballistics are only marginally better.

>>34951886
It is on a larger scale, theyre meant to fit in like 20-30

>>34962332
also the main issue with gyrojet is it's retarded for a close range weapon like a sub machine gun or a pistol or a carbine. it's utterly moronic. however for a sniper ammunition it's actually pretty fucking awesome. now that was the one application it never seen trial. imagine a sniper rifle that has a bullet that continues to accelerate not slow down and drop on a parabolic arc.

File: 84d6751e140fd3e65c22ab0509e1c0f4.jpg (69KB, 900x659px) Image search: [Google]

69KB, 900x659px

>>34962391
>theyre meant to fit in like 20-30
well 30 round of .75cal would require a double stack mag of more than 12 inches in length and be about 40mm thick at the very least.

as opposed to the usual depiction of a single stack magazine that fits about 6 rounds and maybe one in the chamber.

>>34962457
on the other hand .50cal would only require a magazine length of 8 inches (which matches the depictions) and a width of about 27mm.

>>34962505
Are the man-sized bolters .50 calibre?

>>34952008
>in direct fire application it's fucking overkill. there is no point in shooting a man with a 20mm explosive shell. a .50cal mbg hit will kill him just the same.

what if you aren't fighting a man, you know like in 40k

>>34949536
Yes, it is possible to make a boltgun. I'd use a hybrid gyrojet/cased projectile and electronic action to make sure the round is accurate, reliable and lethal at the muzzle. The sheer size of the boltgun means that the electronic componants can be made beefy enough to outlast the rest of the gun.

>>34964156
They are in various sizes, but I think it's about right. .50 for "regular" humans (keep in mind they're fucking ripped guys whose sole purpose in life is to kill) and Sororitas in their Power Armour, .75 for regular Marine bolters, and like 1 full cal for the heavy bolters that the Devastators carry around (the ones with huge ammo backpacks) and mounted on vehicles.

File: puttingthegunneryingunnerysergeant.jpg (84KB, 482x627px) Image search: [Google]

84KB, 482x627px

>>34964368
Also, 1 full cal for Gunnery Sergeant Harker who just hipfires that shit, because he ain't bitch made.

>>34951649
You just need to tune the nozzles to produce the same spin as the barrel twist.

Wasn't there a thread around made by a dude who actually got a Gyrojet, and he found out that all the rockets he had had a glaring flaw and the backplate of the rocket was off, so the nozzles were partially covered so the thing was missing horribly? And then he fixed it up, and it was much more accurate than it is supposed to be?

It would be hilarious if technology such as Gyrojet got shut down because some retards at factory couldn't make ammo right, and it was blamed on gun.

>>34964454
To be fair, if you can't reliably manufacture it, it's not really worth making.

We had ongoing threads composed of 20 /k/ommandos designing a bolter. Their ringleader was a trip by the name 'ardboy. I haven't seen/heard from him in forever and I think he had the preliminary sketches/plans.