Home Defense Rifle vs Pistol

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>shotguns are shit firearms for home defense

>>34922836
Nice argument.
As for OP >>34922826 Handguns are used to get to your rifles. Simple as that.

>>34922863
>Handguns are used to get to your rifles.

who fucking invented this meme statement?

>>34922890
Anyone with a fucking brain

>>34922896
ok so what you're saying is that someone said it once so its true.

>>34922916
the only benefit of a handgun is that it's small enough to carry around without bumping into things. if this whole thread is you making stupid blanket statements for (you)s i'll save my typing for something else.

>>34922992

ok sure but lets say its either your handgun or your full-sized AR or FAL depending on what you have. theres no way in hell you're gonna be maneuvering through your house effectively with either of those

>>34923000
Why would I grab my full-sized AR when I could get my 10 and a half inch barrel AR

>>34922826
I was looking at this image as if the 1911 woman was coming around a doorway and had the drop on the AR bitch who's looking the wrong way.

The 1911 woman should win if she can get effective rounds off before the AR bitch pivots back to the doorway..

So taking into account that trying to clear your house when you are in a home defense situation is the wrong thing to do, the rifle would be the best choice.

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>>34923000
A "full sized" AR can be very small. The pluses of a long arm greatly outweigh the negatives. It's a more stable shooting platform which gives you greater accuracy and faster presentation.

>>34923010
>1911 women
>ar bitch
You implying something here?

>>34922826
Home defense shotguns are fine with a rifled barrel. It lets the shot spread out more so the penetration isn't as bad.

>>34923008
This. The ideal home defense weapon is a SBR with a light. I have a 8.5" barrel .300blk AR for home defense with 30 round magazines, light, laser and tritium sight.

>>34922826
A pistol should do the job well.

>>34923034

too bad with those short barrels you're doing nothing but turning a fragmenting round into a dart.

>>34923073
Ehehe ehhhhhh....

>>34923073
Hollow points? Custom loads? What do you only buy 55gr 5.56 loaded to military standards?

>>34922826

>.t nogunz

Unless you live in a home with vietcon tunnel dimensions, have wafer thin walls in a toddler daycare, or you're jerry miculek, you'd be an idiot to pick a handgun over a semi auto long gun. Long guns are inherently easier to stablize and can deliver much more capable ammo than most handgun calibers.

>>34923063

yeah im just gonna drop 2500 bucks on a gun specifically for an event that probably wont happen. especially considering that if i have the money to drop on novelties like a .300 memeout SBR i probably live in a low-crime neighborhood.

>>34923073
>>34923089
Again, even 55 grain m855 has more than enough velocity at short ranges to tumble and fragment violently into a human target.

Let this be known:

10.5 5.56 BARRELS ARE ONLY LIMITED AT LONG RANGE

>>34923109
Mine cost me about 800$, I bought the Spikes lower cheap, the Aero complete upper on sale and the other miscellaneous parts I either had or got for cheap or on sale the same weekend. I should note it's technically an AR "pistol" that has a brace. Why would you go out and drop 2500 on an SBR?

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>>34922826
>shotguns are shit firearms for home defense. They are slow to operate, have low ammunition capacity, over penetrate like crazy, and are large and unwieldy

Well...nobody can honestly argue against that.

>>34922826
i had two home invasions so far.
and i rely on a pistol for home defense.
the main reasons are: close distance
rifles are unwieldy in small spaces
its easier to use a pistol at very close distances
noone fires 10+ rounds in a typical home defense situation.
overpenetration and endangering others
i am familiar with my home defense gun, since i carry the same model every day and shoot it twise a week at the range.
i prefer instinctive aiming technique in close quarter shooting, similar to low center axis relock.

first home invasion was 1999.
some armed dindus kicked my door in at 3 am i was unarmed and fled before i called the cops.

they took my tv, my stereo and my microwave.


second time was 2006 i had bought a usp compact for self defense only a few months ago and just started shooting. two armed dindus crowbared my door open. one of them tried pointing his gun in my direction.
i fired 5 times at them, hit one twice.
once in the chest/shoulder (missing most important stuff) and a second time in the upper arm, making him bleed like a slaughtered pig.
the other guy ran.
first guy only survived because tourniqueted his arm before calling 911.
it was a shitshow of law in the court, because he tried to sue me. had to spent a few grand on a lawyer. the cops told me that next time it would be better to check the house multiple times for more intruders before calling 911 and then see if the guy is still in need of help.

now i am quite good at shooting an will not miss if someone tries to invade my home.
mosambique drill is all the stopping power i need.

>>34923109
>I don't have the money for an AR, therefore the shotgun is better

That argument is retarded. Nobody is going to say you shouldn't use what you can afford for home defense.

>>34922826
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiHHgjaR0TI

>>34923115
>55gr m855
wut

I get what you mean but you look retarded saying it.

>>34923193
>>34923115

M193. Sorry...I was blind with nerd rage.

>>34923161
#4 buck will not leave your house with any killing capacity unless you shoot it out of a window, speed and handling really depend on the operator. i'm better swinging my stevens 520 than i am my ar.

>>34922890
Clint Smith, creator of many dumb meme quotes.
https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/quotations-clint-smith

>>34923236
>"Beware the man who only has one gun. He probably knows how to use it!"

christ this is mattis tier retardation

>>34923256
>mattis tier retardation
Delet this!

>So we all know that shotguns are shit firearms for home defense.
What? I don't think I've ever heard someone say shotguns are bad for home defense.

>>34923266

Shotguns are bad for home defense.

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>>34922826
>shotguns over penetrate like crazy
>i should use a rifle instead
going to skip over your reasoning, and just say when it comes to a face-to-face encounter, pistols are generally better than rifles and at distance rifles are simply better than pistols. in close proximity it's easier to point aim pistols and rifles offer the attacker better opportunity to use leverage against you. otherwise, a compromise would be pistol caliber carbines or sub guns.

>>34923276
how many times have you defended your home? shotgun worked pretty well last time i pointed it at some people trying to break in.

>>34923266

normies think they are because at a glance it makes sense that a close-range(for a gun) weapon like a shotgun would be good for home defense but what they don't think about is the ability for follow up shots, and just how small a pellet cloud is at 1-25 feet

>>34923286
>a compromise would be pistol caliber carbines or sub guns.

wrong. if you're going to use a two-handed gun, use actual rifle calibers. all handgun calibers are shit.

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>>34923314
small pellet cloud also equates to a tight subgun burst.

>>34923177
>shot a man twice
>lived long enough to sue you
somehow not proof handguns suck

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>>34923161
>>34922836
#4 Buck for working on American soil.

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>>34923177
>it was a shitshow of law in the court, because he tried to sue me.

I really, really, really have no idea why the fuck this is allowed.

Like, yeah, people can, have, and will be in the wrong in home defense shootings, it can happen. But I can think of few things scummier than breaking into someone's home, threatening their property, THREATENING THEM WITH A WEAPON, and even getting the fucking opportunity to sue. It's mind-boggling. I know civil court is generally fucked, but come the fuck on, I think the homeowner deserves an exemption.

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>>34922836
>>34923161
#00

For when your in a foreign country and don't give a shit.

>>34923402
#8

It leaves one big hole instead of 8 small ones.

>>34923388
Can someone get a good comparison of the two pellets? Don't have one offhand and I'm curious. I know I don't want to use #00 in home defense and tank my boiler, but I don't know how #4 looks/penetrates.

>>34923436
birdshot does not have the penetration to be an effective self defense round.

>>34923436
Birdshot is shit.

>>34923008
>>34923063
Rip ears

>>34923473
Totally. A 12 gauge is at least hearing safe.

>>34923381
all about shot placement

>>34922826
Most people these days can be deterred by simply yelling loudly in languages that are not their primary language
So a hand gun is a pretty cheap and effective way to learn how to shoot and defend your home for the average citizen
A rifle is a good way t surprise a home invader, but for the average joe that's way too expensive for something that may never even get used

>>34923300
What the hell kind of argument is this? I read a news story about someone using an airsoft gun to scare of intruders back in the early 2000s. Does that mean you should chose an airsoft gun?

>>34923517
but an ar15 gets the job done
http://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/broken-arrow/three-dead-in-broken-arrow-home-invasion-officials-to-update-investigation-monday
he only thought he hit one of them.

>>34923517
>for the average joe that's way too expensive for something that may never even get used
An AR15 is one of the cheapest firearms in the country...

>>34923531
i was just mentioning my real world experience, which i was implying you don't have. a shotgun is your best chance at a one shot stop, and people rarely survive a torso hit of buckshot to sue you later.

>>34923489
I meant pistols. And I didn't mean it wouldn't damage your hearing, but I do know my ar pistol is way louder than my basic bitch handgun

>>34923531
the best weapon is the one you have at hand in this situation.

i defended my home in brasil against an intruder with a crossbow. broadhead to the guts.
worked great. good stopping power and he even survived.

>>34923588
>the best weapon is the one you have at hand in this situation.
That's irrelevant. Sometimes what is on hand is, in fact, not the best. People in those situations end up dead.

>>34923343
>a tight subgun burst.

implying anyone here is going to be using an ACTUAL smg for home defense.

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>>34922826
I'm going to have to go with a pistol. Rilfes require two hands to manipulate and are heavy.

>>34923442
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiHHgjaR0TI
6 minutes in

>>34923184
>>34923845
I like Paul, I really do. I gotta say though, I watched this video and I'm not convinced. Sure, a shotgun works for home defense, but it sucks in comparison to the alternatives.

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>>34923464
Not at point blank its not. At any real distance, you'd be correct. But in the distance involved in your average house, its going to do nasty things to a human body.

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One shot, one kill, even if you miss.

>>34923959
Dude, if you're going to choose a firearm based on its reputation for devastating lethality, just use the gun with a load that achieves that end. Purposely neutering a shotgun's power is kind of silly. If you do care about over penetration, just use a rifle.

>>34923971
well memed sir

Bullpup 5.56 rifle

>capable caliber that dissipates energy once it hits (important if you miss)
>easy to maneuver
>better ballistics than an SBR
>better capacity than a shotgun or handgun
>funky reload, but it's fast enough for most HD situations

Only problem is that pretty much all good bullpups are expensive, and if you use them defensively, they could end up in an evidence locker forever.

>>34923959
Why not opt for a weapon that is optimized for short to medium range? Then you don't have to be concerned about whether you're "point blank" or not.

>>34923177
>the cops told me that next time it would be better to check the house multiple times for more intruders before calling 911 and then see if the guy is still in need of help.

Based pigs.

>>34923008
>>34923063
unless its suppressed this is retarded beyond belief

>>34923991
>If you do care about over penetration, just use a rifle.
what? nothing will over penetrate more.

>>34924071
Okay, I'm smelling what you're stepping in. The only question is which one?

Let me guess, the Tavor.

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>>34924106

>>34924105
Being concerned about hearing above defense is fucking retarded. All firearms will damage your hearing.

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>>34924121
are you high?

>>34924139
if you shoot a sbr in a hallway with no ear protection you will probably be deaf

>>34924106
Both shotguns and pistols penetrate more than 5.56 VMAX and TAP.

>>34922826
>over penetrate like crazy
>as a bad thing
>but praised pistol or rifle
LOL

>>34924165
>>34924106
This is wrong...as fuck. Look at any single study of barrier penetration as it relates to 5.56, common pistol calibers, and 12 gauge.

>>34924180
Yeah, the same can be said for a 12 gauge.

>>34924165
I didnt realize we were limited to military ammo for HD, thanks for the info anon.

Why would i want to use soft points or fragmenting rounds anyways?

>>34924188
if you are using fragmenting rounds that actually fragment yes, a .22 rifle loaded with .22 cb would penetrate even less but that statement is ludicrous as the vast majority of rifles have more penetrative power than rifles or shotguns.

>>34924216
anon, YOU might buy the ammo for every single situation, but the average citizen want cheap things, and surplus IS cheap

just so you know ...

>>34924225
*handguns or shotguns

fragmentation of solid 5.56 rounds is highly dependent on speed, hollow points tend to get filled with drywall and act as fmj.

>>34924225
>>34924250
VMAX and TAP are specifically known for completely grenading in as few as two sheets of drywall out of a 16" barrel. But go ahead and launch a buckshot wrecking ball towards your daughters room, I won't stop you.

>>34923343
.32 acp confirmed best HD choice
>muh 75% stopping power
>muh lightweight
>muh maneuverability

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>>34924292
it really just stops the people who believe it can

If I'm shooting anything indoors likely without earpro I'd prefer it be a handgun desu

rifles indoors have been known to actually blow out unprotected eardrums. like physically btfo

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>>34924250
>>34924233
>>34924195
>>34924180
>>34924165
>>34924106
>>34924105
>>34923959
>>34923517
>>34923436
>>34923109

>mfw people with hd shotguns are mongoloids
Can't say I'm that surprised.

>>34924351
lot of fuddlore in this thread. I'm surprised nobody has talked about racking the slide

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>>34922826
>They are slow to operate
so you've never actually used one before
>have low ammunition capacity
average self-defense engagement is 2 rounds
>over penetrate like crazy
what is no. 4 buck
>large and unwieldy
then you ask about a rifle in the next sentence

when does school start? sick of these summerfags

>>34924372
>I'm surprised nobody has talked about racking the slide
I was just going to post something about that.

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I have 4 tiers for my HD firearms, each one added to the last

>1. vp9 w/ 30 round mag and pic mounted flashlight
For when I'm unsure if someone/something is in, or when I need to piss or get water. I use this frequently.
>2. Rem 870 20 GA 21in barrel, #3 buckshot
For when I know some shit's going down.
>3. CX4 storm 30 round mag
For when several niggas need to get shot.
>4. CETME .308 rifle
For when I need to kill everything.

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>>34924318
>SBR AR in .357 mag

>>34924113
I'd rather have an AUG. But I'm just talking the platform in general.

>>34922863
>Handguns are used to get to your rifles. Simple as that.

which fucking movie do you live in?

>>34924395
i keep my hd gun with an empty chambe for safety reasons, so i have to rack the slide first.

>>34924418
why do you think they're called 'sidearms'?

>>34924434
that's legit, but I hate when people say, "just keep a shotgun around, most intruders will run away when they hear you rack the slide".

that's not something that you should count on when your life is potentially in danger.

>>34924188
>>34922826
>>34923045
>>34923161
>>34923451
>>34923464
>>34923991
>>34924201
All these fuckboys referencing "shotguns" as if there is only one load for shotguns and it will always overpenetrate...
What is no. 4
what are flechettes
what are cut shells

>>34924434
That's good. It'll scare away the attackers...if it's a shotgun.

>>34924437
>why do you think they're called 'sidearms'?

because they're worn at a person's side, you complete moron.

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>>34922826
>using baby pistol
>using baby rifle
>not using superior slavmagik
>not cleaning your walls for days
>not killing neighbours house as collateral damage

op is a fag

pic very related

>>34924434
shotguns aren't generally drop safe so cruiser ready is the recommended way to store them for hd.

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>>34923109
>$2500
nigga I just googled it and found one for $600, and there's a 5.56 10" for $570 which would also kick ass. You are intentionally being argumentative.

>>34924454
No, man I have a shotgun for home defense too. The fact is that if you choose a load that is as lethal and devastating as you'd want from a shotgun, it will overpenetrate. I just don't really have to worry about it because I live in the woods.

>>34924466
and why are they worn at a person's side? you complete moron

>>34924484
Radical is absolute dogshit.
For that price you could just assemble your own using Aero enhanced stuff which is practically idiotproof and Aero is at least mid/mid-high tier. Get a BA barrel or another company with a decent rep that's having a sale.

>>34924139
WHAT DO YOU SAY SONNY? NIGGERS AT THE DOOR AGAIN? I CANT HEAR YOU!

>>34924495
no. 4 is more than lethal and will not overpenetrate unless you live in the nigger projects.
stop larping noguns faggit

>>34924544
Yeah, that wouldn't happen with a 12 gauge.

>>34924554
>my shotgun overpenetrates
>might as well water it down to the lethality of an ar

>>34924576
How fucking dense are you. Do you understand what no. 4 buck is? Or do you only classify loads by 00 and birdshot?
This is reaching new levels of retardation. I hope you're just trolling me

>>34924602
Lie to me but...

>>34924602
>>34924554
Dude, what are you talking about? Number 4 over penetrates more than even high pressure 77 grain 5.56 loads.

>>34924602
this whole thread is trolling

>>34924071
>if you use them defensively, they could end up in an evidence locker forever.

Stupid, stupid meme. You saved your life because you brought the right tool. Grab your spare weapon until you get it back, but if you don't, you are alive to buy something even cooler.

You probably would fill an Alice pack with bedsheets and use it as a parachute since a real parachute might get dirty.

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>>34922826
>So we all know that shotguns are shit firearms for home defense.
You think they are shit, most people aren't this stupid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USs4AfyI9wM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8pWkGJg2Vw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hlykGQ7nM0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCAI3Ni6bzg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiHHgjaR0TI

>They are slow to operate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr88pLhyuzY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3m-WNk44hI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5QTFvnENRc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1vPXTcE5-4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnrsvUanLfU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cebOI-NS5Kc

Fuck it lets get the rapid reload in too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cebOI-NS5Kc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMqUDEMrwDw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lprcnmeql2Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBEwKR9Tb-Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9o-Aa6ePqE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2sJ-rFmgB0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaElhPSONF8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imY0FT4ZtBc

>have low ammunition capacity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1vPXTcE5-4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDdzvKi3yiE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-koXI1iEK8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnrsvUanLfU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bGgwVr7U08

>over penetrate like crazy
That's a given for all of them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0qgQoej5zE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9_IKqAjG3w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0qgQoej5zE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C29mEJFFIvo

>large and unwieldy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5uHt4AwYb4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YES3UKABooA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sscTyDjRbFk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFLj3DeKT-E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0ZpBKZIJsQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGtYnDXPJmE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8QZGPGViog
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9LIx53j-zs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPYWlBm7KCY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9f76R4s2bc

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>>34924732
Clearly, the point being made is that shotguns are WORSE for home defense than AR15s. Nobody said they can't be used in a pinch/if you're a fudd/ if you are too poor to buy a $600 rifle.

>>34924732
>a bunch of footage from pop jewtube channels and competitive professionals
Into the trash...

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>>34924732
>>34922826
Ya know what, I ain't done yet.

Large and unwieldly? Lets see how girls and kids handle it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZE-EDGw2vo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMD2_MDdsEE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6CBKUM9gk8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=533Q2jc_Zrw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq0s7xU9eKE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o20Fap1qNBg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnuAEwS653M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2mW6wE_R78
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cD9l7UxSY_8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxDY7ZGRyqo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc2uMsrGkmI

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>>34922826
>shotguns are shit firearms for home defense

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>>34922826
like carrying, it depends on what your needs and expectations are
when I was in a crummy apartment, id much rather have a pistol
>tight corners
>not much space
>neighbors literally a wall away
now that I have a cozy home in the woods where my nearest neighbor is a few acres away Id use a rifle first

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>>34924820
How so? Shotguns do the job just as fine if not better. Now that don't mean you shouldn't have an AR-15 or any other rifle, those are good too, but a shotgun will do the job fine.

Also $600 for an AR-15? You can cough up for $500 and less for a decent one.

>>34924835
>can't think of any argument
>so instead use an ad hominem and turns away
Really makes you think.

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>shotguns suck for home defe....

>>34924732
Why does Paul Harrel have an 1897 for home defense? Are the hallways trench lines?

>>34922826

In Canada they are great.

No SBS laws so I bought a 14" barrel pump for 350$ and had it shipped to my door.
Its non restricted so storage concerns are minimal and I can keep it in my car.

>>34925031
>Are the hallways trench lines?

Essentially, and bunkers etc had what you think of as a hallway too.

>>34924835
They proved the weapon works. If you fail to practice with any weapon you'll get the fail you deserve.

The wall tests were empiric evidence of penetration, testable and not requiring "professionals".

>>34925057
That's true. I thought of using my AR, but shooting someone with a restricted may not look as good to the judge. I would also have to explain how I got it out of my safe so quickly (I don't follow storage laws at all).

>>34925094
That Ian Thompson (I think thats his name, could be way off) guy had the last of the charges against him dropped and he used a pistol.

Any shotgun load capable of killing a man is going to go straight through at least three interior walls before slowing down enough to not kill your kids. ARs have ammo available that will kill a man and still stop after going through just one wall. This is not up for negotiation.

>>34925130

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C29mEJFFIvo

>>34924960
>How so?
For all the reasons in the OP for starters.

>>34925130
what round isn't going to send a cloud of deadly fragments at your kids after one wall?

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>>34924982
>muskets suck for home defe...

best to good imo for HD, excluding shotguns

AR 300blk, sbr or braced,30rd mag, suppressed, any grain in this meme round, flashlight, red dot. 5/5

9mm carbine(scorpion duh), sbr or braced, suppressed, 30rd mag, 147gr hst or 158gr fiocci, flashlight, red dot, stealthy as fuck cuz 5/5

AR15, sbr or braced ,with 30/40 rds of high grain TAP or a good barrier round like speer or ranger, flashlight, red dot. suppressor optional cause you're getting ear raped either way. 4/5

9mm glock,suppressed, 33rd clipazine, night sights and flashlight. 3/5

NAA mini revolver, 22ratshot, shoot them in the dick. 2/5

Non functional mosin, bayonet, charge them. 1/5

>>34924893
It would be worse for a full sized man to use in enclosed spaces, considering his own size already constrains his movement. Anyways, "large and unwieldy" doesn't mean "too heavy". And non of that shit has to do with combat inside buildings.

In fact none of this >>34924732 shit addresses the fact that shotguns are slower, have lower capacity, and threaten the lives of others to a greater degree than an AR15.

Really, you just came here after someone talked shit about shotguns and posted a bunch of videos not even related to the thread. There are a bunch of different guns, not a single one of which can stand up to OP's challenge.

>>34925057
>I bought a 14" barrel pump
What's the ammo capacity?

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>>34925205

>>34925278
>What's the ammo capacity?

4+1

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>>34924982
>>34925205
>katanas suck for home defe...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAkCLpMtjlM

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>shotguns over penetrate

You almost had me there OP, you almost had me.

I keep a Maverick 88 loaded with #4 Silver balls and salt. If I kill someone i don't want to have my expensive gun being abused by the pigs.

>>34925433
>Katana vs Borgler

>>34924703
Well no, because that's not a proper parachute.

It'd just suck to have a $2000+ dollar Tavor or AUG that I worked hard for corrode in a closet, until it's eventually sold off to be smelted down into some faggy liberal art piece that Michael Bloomberg commissioned.

I'm not against spending extra coin for a better gun. But a bullpup, while it's still better for HD than an AR, the AR is still plenty effective and used to great effect.
And it's not as much of a bitch to replace.

>>34925550
You don't drive your Porsche to work every day, that is why you buy a Ford Focus.

>>34925433
I miss when Will Keith used to post here

>>34925613
Better yet, buy ten or fifteen Hi-Points and hide them everywhere. You won't even need to switch mags.

>racking the shotgun is 100% proven to deter all criminals from killing you and raping your wife and children

A co-worker said this once.

>>34925642
he's still here

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>>34925545
>Maverick 88
>expensive gun

>>34925545
>If I kill someone i don't want to have my expensive gun being abused by the pigs.
Nigger, if you ever actually have been in or get into a firefight, you're going to want every advantage and all the firepower you can get.

>>34925165
Looks like #8 wins on all fronts. Will remove a head at close range, not penetrate more than 2 walls, and is the easiest to spackle over.

>>34923177
You definitely should have "checked the house" I know ill do that if it ever happens to me.

>>34925697
That's his point. He'd rather have his cheapo Mexishit scattergat held by police rather than his other, more expensive gun(s).

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>>34925697
>Don't
>Don't
>Don't

>>34925704
This retard thinks a home invasion is the same thing as a firefight.

>>34922826

Rifle for muh stoppan powah. Pistol because it's easier to round corners and shit

>>34922826

Pistol caliber carbine
Debate me

>>34925727
How is a firefight in a home defense situation not a firefight?

>>34925201
5.56 and 357

>>34922826
Different guns for different situations. I live in tightly packed suburb and I'm more accustomed to using my handgun loaded with hollerpoints so I'd go for that desu. As long as the resident is using a gun they've trained with and has appropriate ammo for anything goes, including shotguns.

>>34925545

>His mav 88 is his expensive gun

>>34925753
It's pest control.

>>34924105
If you think firing any firearm inside isn't bad for your hearing I implore you to give it a try. As a side note I actually keep my electronic muffs near my HD gun anyway so if I have the time and presence of mind I could theoretically put them on.

>>34925798
Yeah, you know what? You're a retard.

>>34925697
>>34925781
Reading comprehension.

>>34925814
>t. retard

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>>34925753
Ambushing tactics and a five yard range means whoever fires the first shot wins. Hardly a firefight, its more like euthanasia.

>>34925781
>

>>34925755
http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/results.html
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/03/ryan-finn/sheetrock-penetration-testing-take-1/

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>>34925697
>>34925781
You people question the Mavick thing more than the fact he is loading salt and silver.

>>34925182
That I debunked with the metric shit ton of videos. Give new reasons.

>>34925874
i know right? no white ash, it's like he wants to be eaten.

Let's be real, they're both probably functionally incompetent, but the AR bitch has more ammo which means she might win after the other one misses 7 or 8 times.

>>34925885
Refer to >>34925278

>>34922826
The best gun for home defense is the one that you have on your person the moment you need it. The second best gun is the closest one within reach.

If you can only choose to own 1 gun for home defense, you have fucked up in life.

>>34925031
Slam-fire. Put more lead in the air than a Chinese sweatshop for a millionth of the price.

>>34925807
Which would impair your hearing to assess the situation appropriately.

>>34925951
>The best gun for home defense is the one that you have on your person the moment you need it
Except when it's not. Some people didn't have the firearm they needed and they ended up dead.

>>34925951
What if the gun you have is a fucking B.B. Gun?

>>34926081
No adult would consider BB Guns to count you argumentative fuckwad.

>>34926052
So you're saying some person had a better gun that they had ample time to go and get, but didn't use it? That sounds like user error.

>>34924404
>>34923286
>>34924484
Good luck defending the use of that in court.

>>34924703
Finally somebody who agrees with me on this ridiculous shit. Really common opinion here, too.
I think it really shows how deeply in the closet /k/ is about their mall ninja tendencies that they think:
a) having your gucci AR locked up is too high a price to pay for your life in a home defense scenario
b) having your gun confiscated is even on the fucking radar in terms of bad things that can happen to you after using lethal defense
c) that you're even going to be thinking about this after killing a human.
Though they'll argue that last point because /k/ are all one-shot one-kill cold blooded operators (see above re: mall ninja tendencies).

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>>34925278
>none of this shit addresses the fact that shotguns are slower, have lower capacity, and threaten the lives of others to a greater degree than an AR15.
Wrong, they did.
>lower capacity
There are shotguns with 30 round magazines. Roughly standard. The ones with less are easily compensated by fast reloading procedures. Additionally you can have one in the chamber.
>slower
Semi-automatic shotties have a rate similar to that of an AR. Here, let's compare some.
Shotty
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3m-WNk44hI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_QO457Jkew
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw7TcP9zXU4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnrsvUanLfU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bGgwVr7U08
Rifles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3gf_5MR4tE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO_wikX4KYc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqGVU1sW8pg

>threaten the lives greater than the AR
AR penetrated nearly triple the walls the shotgun did. Also the over penetration is less with 12 gauge than with 5.56.

12 gauge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhZf_x8Esms
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6cmGHz-4O4

5.56
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRbAfdoU9vY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y88vaxo3mqU

>Anyways, "large and unwieldy" doesn't mean "too heavy".
Never said it did, it could also mean too difficult to maneuver, which was proven by the videos to be not so.

>And non of that shit has to do with combat inside buildings.
First few videos did, you didn't watch jack shit. But here, some more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXfJuNvs73w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4YuTTJ_cPc

>Really, you just came here after someone talked shit about shotguns and posted a bunch of videos not even related to the thread. There are a bunch of different guns, not a single one of which can stand up to OP's challenge.

Again, did you not look at a single video? Do I need to list them out one by one for you so that you can understand them? As above, they did withstand.

>>34926106
I'm saying that someone could've had a worse gun than the attackers. If someone chooses an inferior weapon than the home invader, they've set themselves up for failure. This is especially true if there are multiple attackers, A double barreled shotgun has two shells. If there are three enemies, even if the user doesn't miss, they're at an extreme disadvantage. The point is, the old adage doesn't always ring true. Some guns are objectively worse choices than others.

>>34926015
ELECTRONIC EAR MUFFS. You know, the kind that enhance your hearing using microphones and speakers. Reading comprehension in this thread is just awful I swear.

>>34925851
>cherrypicking

>>34924515
I wouldn't trust mine for HD, but I haven't had issues with my Radical Upper yet. Granted it's been 150 rounds but it doesn't seem bad and has been accurate

>>34925031
I remember in one video he says because of how it looks and him being old they will basically assume he is just an old fudd with a shotgun. Practically, there isn't much difference between an 1897 or a 870 or a 500/590 unless you are using a light or optic. I can see he reasoning because it does look less "tactical" or whatever.

>>34926269
post any test of any 5.56 (or .357 if you want) round with adequate penetration, fbi standard is 12", but even half that, that will be stopped
>after going through just one wall
as this gentleman posited.
>>34925130

>>34926257
You're right, someone who knows nothing about guns or using them effectively could definitely lose a gunfight. It's like we're arguing but we're not.

>>34925673
I unironically want to do this when I build a house. Spend $1500 on Hi-Points and just have them stashed all over

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>>34926145
A child could hit a target at a 5 yard range. Home invasion situations are resolved a vast majority of the time on who gets the first shot off. you don't need to reload, hell unless you are a high ranking gang member your not gonna be subject to a gangland style assassination. If your firing 5 shots at someone and haven't hit them you obviouslly aren't shooting to kill, and if your not shooting to kill you shouldn't be shooting at all.

besides that, gooche attachments aren't gonna be the difference between life and death in a home invasion. a Cheapo gun is fine so long it actually fires and cycles.

>>34926367
Jesus. You can't outgun someone by being more proficient and trained with a gun if it's a muzzleloader against a gang of hoodrats with semi automatics. All the competence in the world can't account for the tools needed to win in modern defensive combat. Yes, the type of gun does matter. No, any gun lying around won't be enough for every scenario. Christ, you're thick.

>>34926460
a light is good so you don't shoot your drunk uncle.

>>34926500
>No, any gun lying around won't be enough for every scenario
I thought we were talking about home defense, were we not talking about home defense?

>>34922826


Everyone in this thread is fucking retarded.

The best gun for home defense is the one that shoots stuff out the front and you know how to use.

In the vast overwhelming majority of home invasion scenarios firing off a few shots from any fucking thing will get the intruders to bail the fuck out, because most home invaders are not looking for a fight.


Jesus christ what the fuck happened to this board, everyone is so fucking meme-tarted

>>34926367
>>34926541

Hes right dude. The type of gun can change the odds dramatically. And you aren't even considering that the guy trying to kill is trained and good with a gun.

>>34926576
So an assassin, your describing an assassin.

Either way shotguns are still preferable because of the low penetration of the #8 shot. This is your house after all, you're destroying your things. And again, home invasions are all about executing ambushes, the first person to shoot is most likely going to be the one living.

>>34923402
>not triple aught
>not 3 inches

It's like you want to be a cuck

>>34926555
trips speak the truth.

Its 1/3 brand loyalty, 1/3 summer, and another third mall ninjas who want to feel justified in their tardent choices in weapons.

>>34926618
>So an assassin, your describing an assassin.
...nope.

>Either way shotguns are still preferable because of the low penetration of the #8 shot.

Aaaand THERE IT IS.

So this whole time you've been trying to convince people that the choice of weapon doesn't matter to reaffirm your decision to use a shotgun. Got it.

>>34926500
Again, you're right and I agree with you.
If some fucking idiot (who knows nothing about guns) chooses to own a muzzleloader for home defense (because he's incapable of using them effectively) will probably lose a gunfight.

Why would anybody do that? And why would that be the gun they keep on their person? Oh, because they're fucking stupid?

This is you:
>go on /k/
>post imaginary stupid people doing imaginary stupid things
>tries to turn it into an argument

>>34926673
I am not the same anon as the other guy, i just want to feel included in the conversation. Its proven that the right shell won't go through an interior wall, and #8 is still lethal at 5-10 yards. Why wouldn't you use a shotgun? really any gun is preferable but Shotgun < Rifle < Pistol.

>>34926555
>>34925951

When did this nonsense get started?

"The best gun is the one you have and are trained with."

Yeah, no shit. That doesn't mean there isn't a substantial difference in the platform chosen though. Technology matters. If everyone thought like these retards, police officers would still use single action revolvers. The military would use bolt actions. This is just so fucking mind-numbingly stupid, I don't even have the words to describe it.

You are actually defending this post: >>34925205
which of course is a joke.

>>34926673
>So this whole time you've been trying to convince people that the choice of weapon doesn't matter to reaffirm your decision to use a shotgun. Got it.
You're replying to two people, I never said anything about shotguns and I kicked off this little shitfest with:

>>34925951

I'm basically saying that any gun is worthless if you don't have it on you and cannot get to it. I never said anything about what type of gun. Someone started spewing about carrying BB guns and muzzle loaders, which is straight up retarded. Nobody carries those for self defense.

Let me break it down for you:
>carry a pistol
>carry a shotgun
>carry a rifle
>or keep any or all of them nearby
I dont give a fuck what you carry, as long as you keep it handy and you're not a complete fucking moron who decided on a muzzle loader for home defense.

>>34926761
See this:
>>34926775
Also see this:
>If you can only choose to own 1 gun for home defense, you have fucked up in life.

>>34926761

For the situation described, you fucking nonce.

Yes, is it more effective to fight an adversary in your home with body armor, a semi-automatic rifle, flashlights, lasers, a tank, artillery, sub machine guns, supersonic tear gas, and subsonic anal-insertion-dildo launchers?

Yeah, probably. Do you realistically need all of those advantages when some dindu breaks into your house in the middle of the night to steal your TV?

No, no you fucking don't. You fire off a shot from the darkness and the dude runs so fast his pants fall off as he goes out the window and the cops catch him a half block away, crying and brushing broken glass out of his forehead.

>>34926761
>t. guy who open carries his AR15 while watching TV

>>34926440
>punch hole in the wall
>pull out a Hi Point

>>34926755
Maybe not who you're talking to, but the fact is a 5.56x45 55gr ball round is also lethal at that range.The rifle has 30 rounds on tap. Shotguns have a very poor capacity compared to that. I'm not saying you'd need to reload, but if you do with a shotgun, you're not in a good position. More importantly, the AR is semi automatic. That means volume. That means follow up shots. The simple fact that you have to pump the shotgun, or worse, insert two new shells, means that the platform is completely antiquated in my mind. My experience with semi auto shotguns has not been good. I've seen every malfunction under the sun with my friend's Saiga and before with the Remington that I sold.

It's also more of a pain to attach a light and optic, though the optic isn't really any more than my preference.

>>34926440
Be sure to add in secret passages and trap doors too

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>>34926794
>need
>NEED

>>34926814
Everyone doesn't do that?

>>34926117
cite me one case ever where an SBR somehow invalidated a real instance of self defense.

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>>34926883

You said shotguns were shit at home defense.

I'm simply pointing out that they're not. In fact, they're more than suitable.

If you want to use more than you need to defend yourself, that's your god given right and I salute you and will buy you a beer afterwards, but my point wasn't about whether or not you should use an AR to defend yourself, it was about the fucktarded idea that

> shotguns are shit firearms for home defense

Pic related.

>>34925031
I think he's mentioned that he's killed people with a shotgun before in a self defense situation, so i guess he's going with what worked for him in the past.

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>>34926863
Anon, you do realize that there are semi-automatic shotguns, correct? besides that, can you not hit a target at 5 yards with 8 shots from a hip fire position? And besides that even more, do you not know not all shotguns are created equal?

If i might make a recommendation, I've never had a problem with my mossberg 930.

>>34924835
nice ad hom you dumb nigger.

>>34922826
OP the answer is both, if you need to manipulate things like a door handle or telephone the handgun might be more appropriate.

But just in case, keep a rifle with a sling nearby too.

>>34923073
they often use heavier boolits in short barreled ARs

>>34926178
They won't listen, they can't accept that the premise for their argument is flawed.

>shotguns (all loads!) over penetrate
>lets use a high powered high velocity low weight projectile that will absolutely CUT through walls

I'm seriously laughing at the one anon who said shotguns cause more harm than an ar in a home defense scenario. Are you mentally deficient when it comes to basic ballistics? I'd much rather have #4 stop after two layers of drywall instead of a fucking high velocity bullet hit my daughter on the other side.

>>34927106
>tfw you don't have a daughter to accidentally shoot on the other side of a wall
why even live

>>34925433
>katana vs. burgerlur

>>34926918
I'm the wrong guy threre guy. I just wanted to meme.

>>34927012
>Anon, you do realize that there are semi-automatic shotguns, correct?
You didn't read the post, did you?

>>34925303
kek

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>>34922826
>So we all know that shotguns are shit firearms for home defense.
HI OP! If you could sucking cocks for a moment, I've got some education for your ignorant ass! Pic related.

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>>34922826
Shotguns are good enough for HD. Not the best but good. Revolvers are good enough for cops, again not the best, but good enough. I'm willing to admit that ARs and Glocks are better, but revolvers and shotguns aren't "shit". If I get attacked by 4 nig nogs with ARs well thems the breaks. I'll send you a postcard from hell.

I think alot of the shotty guys on here are like me anyhow. Broke as fuck and too broke to care about throwing money at a better gun.

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>>34927106
i think what we've all learned in this thread is that if you love your children you need to fill their walls with gravel

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>>34927106
>arguing with contradictions and claims with no proof or using contradicting claims
Such is posting on 4chan.

semi-auto SBS or full giggle PDWs or gtfo

>>34927322
>>34927106
5.56 penetrates less drywall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lkUvixtRVw

>>34927352
Wrong video, but it penetrates less brick as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXOIQgfvVlE&t=1s

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>>34927365
The 5.56 penetrated slightly more.

>>34927322
>contradicting claims
I have not done this. I stated that the argument that shotguns over penetrate while AR platform rifles do not is false.

Compare:
https://youtu.be/rhZf_x8Esms?t=1m20s
&
https://youtu.be/y88vaxo3mqU?t=3m31s

>mfw I have a loaded 7.62x51 rifle for home defense

>>34927418
>>34927322
Compare as well the relative muzzle velocities of the two cartridges.

>M995 ball: 3250 FPS
https://web.archive.org/web/20040209030852/http://www.thegunzone.com/556dw.html
>12ga *slug*: 2700 FPS
>12ga #4 buckshot (advertised) 1250 FPS
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253039
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1002093371/remington-express-ammunition-12-gauge-3-4-buckshot-41-pellets-box-of-5

>>34922826
Anything that goes bang is viable.
A shotgun works extremely well, since one shot to the chest is generally enough, and with a pump you have at least 5 in the tube.
Pistols are okay, AR's give you 30 boolets of .223 tumbling terminal ballistics, which are nice.
I'd take a shotgun or AR over a handgun any day of the week. But all of them work fine. Even 6 shot wheelguns.

>>34927365
that's #00, anon was talking about #4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiHHgjaR0TI

>>34922826
Pistol if you live in tight spaces, rifle/shotgun if you live in pretty open up spaces.

9mm will typically penetrate through walls/doors more than 5.56mm, though you could get some ammo that mitigates this effect.

I mean, anything that you really feel comfortable with should be alright, as long as it's reliable, and you know how to use it.

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>>34927439
>sleep next to a vz58, 1911, rem 870, P99c, and a ptr 91
>all loaded
>mfw I get killed while trying to decide when gun to shoot the home Invaders with

>>34927572

https://youtu.be/KO61gT8D4cE

Anyone got a screencap of the anon who blasted some home invaders with a 20mm he was repairing in his workshop

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Any gun is suitable of HD so long as it cycles reliably. If you're hunting for the invaders, you're making yourself a bigger target. Hunker down and aim at the entry. Anything would work in this situation.

Pistols: Small, lightweight, operate easily one handed.
Rifles: Powerful, usually one shot stops.
Shotguns: Variety of loads, great power for the distance, pretty low penetration when compared to a rifle.

Just use what you got. If you got neighbors, kids, Filipino Flipbook Harem pillow cases that you don't want more damaged than they already are, consider #4 or #5 Buck in a shotty as an option.

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>>34928105
>>34928177

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>>34928182
Still love that story.

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>>34928182
>>34928197

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>>34928274

>>34922826

Shotgun, rifle, handgun, it doesn't matter. If it's what you have or can reasonably use, use it.

Everything else said about it is memes.

>>34928312
>bring girl over
>things are going nice
>sexy time.gif
>go to bedroom
>strip down
>bit of foreplay
>put on rubber
>start slow
>work up
>start straight up plowing
>she's loving it, moaning
>bangs her head on the headboard
>fully loaded 12 gauge drops onto her face
>have best orgasm of my life

>>34923236
>this fake philosophical bullshit
>>34923256
I thought I was the only one who thinks Mattis is an edgy cringelord.

>>34924318
>357 mag lower than 44 mag
wut

>>34922826
Are you high, or just a fool?

Unless you're planning on using a .25 ACP or other ultra low-power pistol round, EVERY pistol and EVERY centerfire rifle is more powerful and penetrates more easily than a shotgun.

#4 Buckshot is about the largets shot rouns that will relaibly put a man down while also being the least liekly to puch through an exterior wall (or at least through your exterior wall and then punch through your neighbor's exterior wall.

One round of #4 buck has ~24 pellets, each .24" in diameter and moving from a 18" barrel at roughly @1200 fps. Assuming a standard pumpgun (i.e mossberg 500 or equiviliant) that's 144 .24 ball rounds from one magazine. How many rounds do most pistols hold again?

That's not including people using autoloading shotguns, especially box-magazine shotguns like the Saiga-12 which can mount up tp a 30 round magazine.

How many pistols can claim a 30 round magazine? The PMR-30 (chambered in .22 WMR) and the Five-seveN (chanbered in 5.7 x 25) are the only ones that come to mind. And even then, they're STILL light on the actual projectile count, AND the 5.7 WILL penetrate two exterior walls (never worked with .22 WMR so I can't make claims about that). Make what claims you will about either round, ONE load of #4 buck is more devastating than THREE rounds of either .22 WMR or 5.7mm.

And a shooty won't have you worrying about whether or not you accidentally shot someone 12 blocks over.

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>>34922836
Inferior to both rifles and pistols so yes they are shit firearms for home defense, keep justifying your hollywood influenced purchase.

>>34928845
Under what metric, you shit flinging faggit?

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>>34928737

>>34928946
Is that even reliable?

>>34922826
>Overpenetrate like crazy
>Rifles...don't? Apparently?
Wat

>>34922863
>Handguns are used to get to your rifles

Look, I 100% get the ethos of the statement but this statement is stupid as shit. You are almost never going to get to "fight your way" to your rifle, most of you are dreaming of a hallway firefight that will never happen.

>>34922826
Baby's first troll thread? You just wanted to anger shotgunfags.
Lucky for you, /k/ is too stupid to see through your ruse.

>>34923588
What was the drawweight?
If you shot someone with a broadhead with a compound I'm amazed they survived.

>>34931763
said after 250+ replies demonstrating /k/ is indeed stupid enough for this rusery

A good .22 pistol with a high-capacity mag. and a lot of practice with it.


I can shoot a 4 inch grouping at 30 yards in under a second. hallow points or subsonic stuff.

>>34925217
A thorough and thought out answer gets no attention. My scorpion+osprey HD setup was picked because it is a fun range toy and with cheap 147 grain 9mm I can 'practice' frequently without breaking the bank.

300blk would have been choice 1a except for the cost of shooting or needing to reload.

I just hope I never need to explain the suppressed, braced and tacticool nature of a Scorpion to the lawman.

>>34928685
If he was a 14 year old kid, yes he would be a cringe lord. But he is actually a successful general.

>>34932254
it was an excalibur 225lbs crossbow.
the bolt went straigth through his guts and broke on the wall behind him. it missed his aorta by half an inch.
still droped him right there. great stopping power. the hospital was right down the street and paramedics arrived within 3 minutes. emergency surgery saved his live, but he did loose some parts of his intestines and got nasty peritonitis leading to more surgery.

the experience cured him from his life of crime, he started working as a janitor after some jailtime and is still paying his hospital bills.

>>34931697
Rifles (55gr m193 and 77gr TAP specifically) penetrate less than 00 buck and FMJ 9mm Parabellum. That being said, some shotgun loads penetrate about the same as 5.56.

>>34923177

>dumbass invades home with weapons
>already violating law on multiple occasions

>allowed to live

>sues

Honestly, that guy would have been better off for society dead

>>34923177
>the cops told me that next time it would be better to check the house multiple times for more intruders before calling 911 and then see if the guy is still in need of help.
That's a good way of doing it. Thanks anon.

I use a pistol. Becuase realistically when i hear something happen I assume it's nothing. I just stick a pistol in my pants and check it out.

>>34923564
>quoting a stat that only accounts for hits

>>34928845
>>34922836
Not anyone quoted here. but shotguns have a shitty rate of fire and terrible magazine capacity.

They are also slow to reload and have serious over-penetration issues in the more effective loads.

They simply don't do anything a carbine in an intermediate caliber with good loads can't do better.

>>34923436
>>34923959
You're a retard.

See video. Girl literally takes birdshot hit to upper chest at point blank range and walks it off.

If you load birdshot for defense you're a fucking moron.

https://youtu.be/_F_KuFzjOGA

>>34935733
damn

birdshot confirmed for terrible.

>>34923177
Am I reading this right? The cop said you should have waited and let the dindu bleed out before calling 911?

>>34923177
Why did you save the nigger? I hope Sambo breaks in again and tears that ass up, cuckboy

I dont understand why you dumb faggos complain about shotgun over penetration then suggest a rifle because rifles totally dont over penetrate in a fucking house. Enjoy only being able to use shit ass frangible ammunition.


Full sized pistol with light is best choice.

>high enough capacity
>smol as fuck obviously
>can be used with one hand to open doors or control children and put them in a safe place as well as having the ability to be on the phone with the police if thats what you choose to do.

>>34935834
>letting some who wishes to do you harm live long enough to testify

>>34936017
no I'm saying that cop was totally baised

>>34935618
>implying you are less likely to hit with a shotgun

>>34935787
idk, are you a bird?

>>34935834
Of course not. But you do have to prioritize.

>>34928715
Its a flawed chart because there is no 'per 100 incidents' or anything like that. It's just 'percent' which can mean anything. 44mag isn't as popular a round as 357, so there is likely more data for 357 and it weighted in its favor.

>>34924091
That's why they cuff a 'suspect' they shot 100 times before calling an ambulance.

>>34935643
Funny how over penetration issues go away when people bring up carbines and rifles.
Retards.

>>34936172
Yes. *peck peck*

>>34935938
Fuck no, a rifle will give you an absurdly higher amount of combat effectiveness to the table than any handgun.

There is literally no defense situation where a handgun is preferable to a long gun. Why give an intruder any advantage at all?

>>34936910
A light, high velocity fragmenting intermediate cartridge has less over-penetration issues than most buckshot, or handgun loads for that matter.

That said, any round that is worth a shit in a defensive situation is going to have overpenetration issues to some degree, You just shouldnt go for the worst case with a shitgun that also has shitty capacity, rate of fire, and reload issues.

>>34936965
You have to give the home invader a fighting chance so its fair.
In fact, I keep a loaded gun next to the door so he will have something to arm himself with when he kicks the door in.

>>34937127
The moment he touches it, you teleport behind him with your unsheathed twin katanas.

>>34937047
Why so you need to shoot more than eight or times with a weapon like a twelve gauge?

>>34937862
>Why so you need to shoot more than eight or times
If you miss 8 times. Don't be purposefully stupid.

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>>34923544
>Police say shooter was justified
>Getaway driver charged with murder

God bless you Oklahoma, when you get it right, you get it right.
Here in New Mexico the victim would be doing 3 life sentences, the getaway driver would get probation, violate it 7 times before getting a 6 month suspended sentence and die in a shootout with police after microwaving an infant he just used as a fleshlight.
Then "the community" would hold a vigil for him, all the officers involved would be jailed and the department would be sued (and the suit would be won).

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>>34923177
>the cops told me that next time it would be better to check the house multiple times for more intruders before calling 911 and then see if the guy is still in need of help.

l o l

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>>34934556
except in Brazil there's universal healthcare, so your story is basically a lie

>>34922896
>Not keeping your rifle in your sleeping room.

Do you like to sleep on the couch when your wife is cucking you or something?

>>34922992
If you are worried about bumping into things then you should clean your house you fucking hoarder.

>>34922826
Its not just combat effectiveness that determines a good HD weapon, it's functionality. With an offensive handgun (light, compensator/suppressor, RMR and extendo mags) you have a lot of utility in a small package, plus you don't lose the ability to manipulate switches/doors, pick up a phone, push something out of the way, and all while having your weapon ready. Plus it's easier to retain a handgun on the fly by tucking it into a waistband

>>34939724
even for crooks?

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>>34922863
If you sleep without bed hooks or a gun-bed, but a long-gun is part of your home defense setup then you are a complete retard.

https://youtu.be/IRUw3R5kZtk?t=45

If someone breaks into my house. I'm stripping naked, donning gas mask, and grabbing M44 with bayonet deployed.
Invader would literally shit his/her pants. I will shit in retaliation and smear it across my mask. Invader runs away. Tells friends. Never have break in again. House is condemned. Even the local PD stays clear.
Build 5' high wall of sandbags surrounding house. Create perimeter with C-wire. Security cameras. Tripod mounted dual M44s for maximum fireball. National Guard now stays clear. Cordon off entire neighborhood with claymore. Zambies no longer an issue.(I am in GA, home of the Walking Dead) ISIS tries to recruit me. Infiltrate ISIS, advance in rank, or whatever. Kill leaders. Mission accomplished. War Hero/defector.

>>34924500
Because they're carried 24/7, where do you think you carry a main weapon? Where did Samurai keep their swords? At their side.

>>34924500
Where does your hand hang? Is it in front of you, or at your side?

Right, I guess you're an autist so you probably do the tyrannosaur arms.

>>34922826
The best weapon is.....the one you have.

>>34923073
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUAFYW1eaDs&t=36s


Yeah this looks like getting hit with a dart

>>34939931
>ballistics gel
Not even once. You're right, that guy's a total moron, but not even once.

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I prefer pistols for home defense over rifles because I'm clumsy and it's easier to open doors while holding a pistol up.

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>they are slow to operate
Maybe if you're a weak little fag who can't cycle properly, it is slower than a handgun or AR of course but speedloaders exist for shells.
>they have low ammo capacity
Yes but this can be negated with speed loaders, besides, they're not meant to have high capacity unless it's an automatic.
>shotguns over penetrate
Maybe if you're using slugs, you have a higher risk of penetration with a rifle or handgun.
The main use for shotguns is close quarters combat and short stock shottys exist, even then you can maneuver just fine in a suburban home for example.

>>34937904
>missing 8 times with a shotgun
>missing
>shotgun
noguns detected

>>34940559
>shotguns are easier to hit with
Calladooty detected.

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>>34940216
But you're making shit up, though.

>>34935643
You know they make semi automatic shotguns, right?

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What about a .357 with shotshells?
pic only semi-realted

>>34939895
>Samurai
A samurai's main weapon was a bow dude, swords were backup weapons, same as most warriors in the east, they'd have a larger primary like a spear or pike and a sword for when they didn't have their primary weapon
>>34939910
I'm not asking rhetorical questions about the ergonomics of where your arms hang you donkey brained virgin, the reason sidearms are/were worn on a person's side was because they are easy to draw, carry and use in confined spaces. But throughout all of history and today, sidearms have always been secondary weapons, used when you are in a situation where you either can't or shouldn't use your primary.

ERGO the saying 'handguns are used to get to your rifles' has very real weight behind it since in day to day life you aren't going to have a rifle with you everywhere like you could with a CC handgun

Jesus, teaching you people is like pulling teeth

>>34941950
Swords are weapons specifically designed for self defense, you absolute sperg. Weapons of war != "main weapon"

>>34941950
In none of those situations are they used to get your rifle... because you toook them with you where you can't have your rifle... which is why they're your primary arm...

>>34941950
>run to get your rifle
>guy is there
>shoot him to death with pistol
>don't need rifle

>go to get rifle with pistol
>guy is not htere
>don't need pistol

So it's either your primary arm or you didn't need it. So you didn't use it to get your long-gun.

>>34941950
Bet you think soldiers carry pistols, too.

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>mfw I realize I'm surrounded by complete fucking retards


>>34941967
oh yes of course my mistake, swords are self defense weapons, that must be why the romans hardly ever used the gladius

>>34941981

>>34941981
and if you are in a position where you can't have a rifle then use the handgun, because you fucking have to, but if you are in a position where you can get to a rifle and you can use that, why the hell wouldn't you?

>>34941997
>shoot guy on your way to get your rifle
>'guess you didn't need your rifle'
>get to rifle
>'guess you don't need your pistol'
that's the point dude, if you kill the guy while getting your rifle the pistol did it's job, if you get to your rifle and you don't need the pistol the pistol and rifle did their jobs

>>34942030
they don't because when their operating they have their firearm in their hands the entire fucking time, also navy SEALs are issued sidearms as backups to their primary weapons

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>>34942173
>when their operating
>retards

>>34923236

Here's his resume

>Marine Corps veteran of two infantry and Combined Action Platoon tours in Vietnam.
>seven years as a police officer during which he served as head of the Firearms Training Division as well as being a S.W.A.T. member and precision rifleman.
>left law enforcement to serve as Operations Officer for the American Pistol Institute where he was Dean of instruction and was instrumental in range and curriculum development for A.P.I.
>1983, Clint founded International Training Consultants, Inc., an active mobile training program which is nationally recognized for innovative programs in Urban Rifle, Shotgun, Precision Rifle, and various handgun formats.
>1986, he served as Director of Training for Heckler & Koch, Inc., where he developed and taught progressive courses in fully automatic weapons as well as conventional weapons systems.

Feel free to post your qualifications so we can properly evaluate your credibility.

>>34923266

Please remember that/k/ is mostly young 20-somethings.

These kids are different than older generations

>freakishly high fear of pain
>no concept of overcoming challenges
>complete dependence on brand names for self confidence.
>very little range time
>gunfighting philosophy built around 1st person shooting video games
>numerical comparison is their only metric, as their parents just dumped them in the corner with their gameboys and pokemon cards, they have no concept of strength and power

>>34923314

because no "normie" ever went to the range or hunts...

You guys are pathetic. All you know how to do is panic and magdump.