Women in the military

>>34912605
In my time in the military most of the female soldiers I've dealt with during and out of training environments have been pretty sub-par to male counterparts. Of course there were females who were and are fantastic at what they do, but by-and-large there are more shitty females than there are males that I've dealt with, and that's even including the fact that there are way more males than females.

>>34912605
I'm sure those statistics would be interesting, but like all statistics, they're also irreverent.

>>34912605
Why does everyone on here hate women in the military. They should have just as much chance as anyone else.

>>34912669
They're given just as much of an opportunity, can't live to the same opportunity (or standards) and then complain about how it's too hard.

They don't want equality, they want equity for being a woman

>>34912652
Found the social sciences moron.
>>34912669
Cohesion. Combat effectiveness. Cost.

>>34912605
Shitpost aside, this belongs on pol. I'm not telling you because I don't want it to be on /k/, frankly it's as k related as it is pol, but you could end up banned for posting a thread like this.

>>34912703
No I was just quoting something, no need to jump to conclusions, asshole.

>>34912703
This really isn't about the politics of it though, just hard factual military statistics so it doesn't belong on /pol/ at all

>>34912695
This is only really the case in the US. Most other forces have integrated women with minimal incident.

>>34912695
They don't want equity/equality of opportunity, they want equality of outcome even if they aren't, as a group, capable enough to achieve that naturally without lowering the entry conditions for their own. Ftfy

>>34912740
Even so you'll likely be nabbed for it. If you ask for gun control stats for instance - sure you're asking for numbers not politics, but it's a highly political topic and is likely to be treated as such.
>>34912741
No ones going to argue women in the military cause an incident of any sort. It's more of a declining standards/increasing costs/decreasing effectiveness deal. Things often not easily attributable to women in the military since theirs no easy way to get past a correlate relationship with all the variables involved. However, the one thing that is sure is the declining standards, since women literally on paper don't have to meet the same ones as men.>>34912743

>>34912779
Gun control statistics are statistics about gun politics, this is about statistics of military performance. Not political at all

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>>34912605

Statistics from Sweden, fresh from this year, stating that both men and women handle all the tests equally good in general (men better att lifting shit, females better att computer tests and theoretical tasks)

And no, the tests was never changed in any way to be more "female friendly" when they were allowed to join.

I work with this stuff so ask away.

>>34913088
What percentage of the tests did the men achieve better results than women?

What do you mean by theoretical tasks?

Do they talk about injury rates?

Have you seen the US Marines study?

>>34912851
Gun crime stats then. I think you understand what I mean

>>34913141
>>>34913088 (You)
>What percentage of the tests did the men achieve better results than women?
Dont have that exact result infront of me

>What do you mean by theoretical tasks?
How suited you are as a commander, how you handle somving tasks under stress, how you do at logical thinking and logistical planning etc.

>Do they talk about injury rates?
Not in this exact part, but those statistics are also keept. My personal experiens tho is that men harm themselfs more because they do stupid shit more often, but that is unrelated and unscientifical.

>Have you seen the US Marines study?
Yes, I have read it, but it was a while ago.

>>34913339
*solving

>>34913339
Well I would still be interested in the first question and the third if you happen to find the info

How did they test the theoretical tasks?

>>34913339
But you admit women are in general less physically fit to be in the military, if the men are better at hard labor tasks and only slightly worse at some cognitive tests then what point is there to leave women in the service?

If they can't dig trenches, defense is weakend, if they can't carry the same kit their load outs will be less effective, if they can't carry a copatriot people will die from treatable wounds from being left behind. If they can't carry anti armor ordanance they weaken their platoon in the face of a mechanized assault. If they can't carry their medic bag and have to relegate part of their kit to a squad member, she is weakening her ability to be a medic and weakening that rifleman's ability to be a combatant.

>>34913416
Not to.menrion if they can't lift themselves in full kit over an obsticale they severely lower their life span and squad effectiveness at responding to dynamic events.

>>34913409
I can probably do that on monday, while back at work.

The tests are done in several ways, most via computers. But the regard where you select who is the better commander is done by talking to (both male and female) officers and psycologists.

>>34913416
I admit the general woman is worse in physical streagnth. But those who work out usually isnt, a fit female is still better then a fat neckbeard at physical tasks, and anyone who doesnt meet the standards is thrown out, regardless of sex.

The two females in our platoon usually ended up top 5 in all physical moments, because they worked out so much and were both professional swimmers.

>>34913477
I also admit that Im horrible at spelling I see now.

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>>34912605

>>34913416
Anyone that fail to meet anything you mentioned is thrown out, regardless of sex.

You know, thats why we have physical standars, and why they are the same for both genders.

>>34913477
So a woman basically needs to be of the level of a professional athlete in order to keep up with the men and women might theoretically perform better but only in theory, not in practical feild tests.

>>34913512
>No male would do this
>All men are firebrigade-level heroes
>Muh anecdotes

OP specifically requested statistics you gook

>>34913525
Not at all. The two on my platoon were, not saying everyone is or need to be.

And in practical applications they also preform better at those things they score better at in the the theoretical tests. Thats why the tests exist.

>>34913512
Damned if I wouldnt want to fuck cum on her feet.

>>34913565
Well I'd like to see the scores for actual performance under stressful conditions, not from computer simulations

>>34913489
Hey, I'm not spelling bee champ myself.

The point of the in general is to compare agregat populations to one another. Comparing avg females to neckbeards is not an intellectually generous comparison, comparing the avg females to the avg male would be, and the avg male oft out competes the avg women in every physical field possible.

You even admit that the women who get into the top five only got there from constant working out really only proves my point, men do not require such constant maintenance to maintain their level of physical state.

Even if you took the neckbeards and forced them into the service their ability to drop the weight and gain the muscle required would be leagues past what women in similar or slightly better shape could achieve.

I am all for gender equality but the military is a life or death endeavor maybe you might not see it, but America's military needs to be the strongest it can be to ensure the current '"wear" stays the "west" lest China decides that Europe is part of it's ancient lands and they lay claim to you or the norks start new shit or Putin comes knocking.

>>34913595
They are probably not available on a broad scale in Sweden as that is up to whoever holds the exercise to determine, but the percentage of females making it into officers school is a higher then men, so there is that.

>>34913627
What are the percentages?

>>34913598
There is a huge doctrinal difference yes, you need the best to do tasks overseas and we need as many as posdible to defend our nation.

But yes, regarding physics the avrage female is worse of (and regarding other things the avrage male is worse of).

But anyone who meets the standards can join, as wee need as many as possible and disqualifying someone who does well on the tests based on something like gender would be considered really weird here.

>>34913646
As stated, itd 00:25 at night here, and Im not at work, will look it up. But few females join the forces (only around 25% of new recruits) and a good portion of those makes it on.

Id say females are about 10% more likely to become officers here, but most officers is still men as most soldiers is men.

>>34913666
I know the idea of large army to defend but if you let in people who will structurally weaken a platoon or squad yu set your army up for a bad time. Women illict a natural defend at all cost response from men, meaning you could have whole squads suicide to try and defend female copatriot and sabatoge your own defenses.

>>34913666
>and regarding other things the avrage male is worse of

Only very marginally by your numbers and apparently only theoretically

>>34913088
Do they have a translated version of that.

>>34913754
Disregarding the psycological thing as Im not in a position to talk about that (note how Im not in anyway saying you are wrong)

And for the last time, standards are equal, so no too weak people get in regardless of gender.

And allowing them means we get a 25% larger force, wich is a big deal for a small nation.

>>34913794
What? When did I specify that?

I said that the same ammount of femals who are crap at lifting shit, an equal ammount of men is trash in the other tests.

And both physical and mental tests are done to represent practical application as far as possible.

>>34913827
No. Its mainly for internal work. There is tons of this material tho.

But I can translate that pic if you want to.

>>34913834
Is Sweden not protected by nato either directly or indirectly?

Does Sweden have a direct emergency requiring the larger force or is it an internal push to get the force larger?

>>34913858
Sweden is not a Nato-member, and we do not really belive Nato would risk WW3 to save us.

We are however hoplessly outnumbered and need as many people to be trained in using guns as possible to just make an invasion so costly it isnt worth doing.

>>34913834
>I said that the same ammount of femals who are crap at lifting shit, an equal ammount of men is trash in the other tests.

You haven't really shown that though. Its safe to assume that at least 60% of men were better than women at all physical tasks but you say women are only about 10% more likely to become officers, if the same percentage of women were better than men then they would be considerably more likely to be officers.

Anachdotal

School of big guns.
Boffins left a bunch of drill 155 HE rounds sitting in a hanger after a test.
No pallets for them so I grab a bunch of trainees to move them the five hundred yards to safety.
Half were female waiting for the UAV course to start.
Ok, everyone grab a bomb and follow me.
I grab one hoist it into my shoulder, with a twinge from my back because I'm fifty five and head of at a walk.
Get to the shell room and place the round on the floor and than watch the male members of the work party place theirs.
Wait.
Wait.
Go outside to see where the girls are.
That are struggling, can't lift the rounds, can't walk more than ten paces with one.
Send the males to grab the rounds from them.

48 kg ea.
femails could not cope.

On one hand I don't want women to lower the overall quality and integrity of the military but on the other I want them to get a taste of what war is like.

>>34913834
Sweden is fucking doomed.

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>>34915432
They chose their fate.

>>34912605
I was a lazy shitbag as a teenager went into Army and for week 0 of basic training, they have you take a PT test to get a baseline. I think I rocked out sit ups due for whatever reason, but was only able to do 10 push ups and a 9 min mile. They didn't test, but I also wasn't ever able to do 1 pull up in gym. Goto later in basic, any time we do an obstacle course or anything, even if it was only bodyweight related (climb, crawl, run, jump, etc), I'd be able to navigate in it half the time as any female I was paired with. God forbid anything that was strength based, such as running in sand with full jerry cans in each hand or something. I was probably 4-5 times faster than any female in that. Skip to end of basic PT test, and I'm doing a fuckton of situps, 45 push ups, and a ~14:30 2 mile. Most women only doing 10-15 push ups, fine with situps, and doing 2 miles in like 18+ minutes. Hell, when I finished my run I was then expected to go back and run alongside these shitbag women in order to motivate them. Once I got to a duty station, it becomes apparent that there are 2 classes of soldier, divided by sex. Women aren't held to the same standard, they get the easiest assignments, and get treated with fucking kid gloves at every opportunity. I can't offer you any statistics, but my anecdote, along with hundreds or others starts to become evidence as why women can't hack it in the military.

>>34912647

>>34915563
>>34915370
>you are now aware that the average male 60 year old is stronger than the average female 16-18 year old

>>34915700
That's kind of sad

>>34915432
>>34915544
MUH MEMES

t. 56%

>>34915370
Sounds like you didnt have the same physical standards for males and females.

>>34913961
Is this reson enough to sack 25% of our military?

Also, from where did you get the number 60%?

God I hate women so fucking much

>>34918253
t. faggot

>>34912647
I'v only knew one woman who was decent. Granted she was a lesbian so was a bit tom-boyish and preferred working with men since in her words the women she trained with "they're fucking useless." and got their arses wiped while men got wrecked.