15 (FIFTEEN) years in Afghanistan

>>34906466
winning was never the goal. occupying the region was.

Afghanistan is the place empires go to die, anon.

>>34906466
No one "wins" in afghanistan.

>>34906466
Win what? There is no winning, there is only doing. You can't win the war on terrorism there unless you eradicate every backwater village and shit hole city there.

>>34906466
Because we didn't go scorched earth.
We value human lives, even the ones we don't like.

>>34906466
They don't want us too. I never facepalmed harder than when my AO in Iraq was taken over.

Call it a loss if you want, if it makes you feel good. In reality we took it over, quelled any rebellion, and then handed it over.

Iraqis lost it. We gave them the tools.

>>34906466
How can you win a war when you are trying to teach non whites about civilization? Muslims at that too

Am I going to spend 15 years trying to teach my dog how to read the Iliad?

No bullshit? Pakistan. The Taliban are the ISI's pet creation.

>>34906555
Trips of Truth

>>34906466
>Why haven't we won yet?
There are still Afghans drawing breath.

The US propped up the bad guys, ignored all the evil they do which turned everyone in Afghan against them
Shamelessly kill random people/bomb infrastructure
Ignored the massive presence of terrorists in neighboring countries

And Democracy doesn't work here, why would it work in Afghanistan?

Because the enemy is part of the general populous, and they live there.

What are we even doing over there? Is there a timeline of what our goals have been?

>>34906466

For the same reason that you can't win a game of catch. There aren't any defined conditions for victory, so you just keep playing until someone gets bored.

Pretend its 1945.

Afghanistan is Nazi Germany or Japan and the Allies want a permanent solution to pacify the region for good, akin to how they handled Nazi Germany and Japan.

How would they do it?

>>34906656
Germany is white and Japan is honorary white. Afghanistan can't be fixed because it's filled with shitskins.

>>34906656
Same way the brits did it a hundred years before. Rain canons from over the horizon and colonize.

we haven't won in korea either :(

Perhaps we're still wondering why we would shoot Bin Laden

Before throwing him into the sea

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>>34906508
>>34906509
Fuck that stupid meme. It takes time and resources to pacify and reform a region, jackasses. We're still in Korea, Germany, France, Japan, etc to this very day. But you people declare defeat before reformation has had time to begin and force us to withdraw.

>>34906466
No matter what measure of success we see somehow people like you declare defeat. We've seen it from Vietnam to Iraq. It's revisionist history simply because our enemy doesn't have a capital that we can roll an armored division through. See above

>>34906466
There is nothing to win. We are still there as an occupying force, and occasionally sent in to clear out whatever evil still may stir in that godforsaken asscrack of the planet.

All we can do to relieve that is to train natives to actually do work. But since the first months of the the Iraq war, we have seen that it is a really shitty way of doing things. Shit, if you want to take it back further, it was a similar story of letting the Germans take care of their own shit that led to WWII. This sort of warfare is not the sort that can be won, only lost. We sent in a fighting force, conquered their asses, but we won't establish the Afghan Territory because according to our purpose, we are fighting the terrorists, not the country, we just happen to be there to do that job. Not like it would matter if we went to war with Afghanistan rather than warred in Afghanistan, the UN would flip shit about muh imperialisms if we actually did shit right and controlled the whole fucking country.

But in the end, there is still the threat of terrorism. There is plenty of logic behind getting the fuck out of there, but ultimately there are still terrorists operating there. For all we know, the US occupying force is all that stops Taliban operations there from reinforcing ISIS in a greater scale or just taking back over and going on some revenge path against us and our allies. We can't have that either. So it leaves us with this dogshit situation where we just camp out and do what we can. The best thing we could do as of now is to start full recon operations and bomb the shit out of everything we find. Finish the war with full aggression rather than finding the budget, "lets arm the locals" policy of doing shit. We saw how well our trained Iraqis fared against ISIS.

>also, no bullshit, most of this thread is right

>>34906466
>a strategic region neighboring pakistan, china, and iran.
what is afghanistan, alex.

>>34906768
>what is afghanistan
A miserable pile of weed

>>34906714
Nobody cared who he was until he put on the pakol.

>>34906466
>heroin constnatly flowing from afghanistan in amounts enough to compete with chinese heroin

Sounds like a victory to me, OP.

>>34906717
>the type of idiot that will die in Afghanistan
lol

I thought it was never about winning , Afghanistans main crop is what I thought America wanted , heroin is a crazy drug that makes billions

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>>34906641
here is a well sourced and exhaustively researched timeline of the US involvement in the region;

1994 - go get dat oil
1995 - gettin dat oil
1996 - secure dat oil
1997 - make some oil deals
1998 - gettin dem deals
1999 - need more oil
2000 - build some bases
2001- secure some bases
2002 - bases near dat oil
2003 - oil near dem bases
2004- kill all the countris
2005 - get all the oil
2006 - mass bedlam except where dat oil iz at
2007 - saudis pimpin dem oils
2008 - jews pimpin dat arms
2009 - americlaps drivin dem suvs
2010 - globalists gettin dat money
2011 - trannies in the military women in the SOF
2012 - half the marine corps is little girls
2013 - bruce jener is a woman
2014 - perpetual war
2015- survalence state
2016- targetet killings, no accoutability, us citizens dont gaf
2017 - civil unrest, total ecinommic dependency, retarded youth, etc

>why haven't we won yet
Because we're fighting an idea, not an army. And the only way to win against this idea is to destroy any individual with that idea.

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>>34907060
b-but anon, that sounds like fascism.

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We just use the middle East as a never ending live scenario/test bed for all of our shit.

Can't have and use war toys if there's no wars

>>34906466
because we aren't allowed to genocide those subhumans.

You can't civilize savages that don't want to be civilized.

>>34907002
Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori

>>34906492
then why not colonize it?

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its not about winning
its about fleecing the working class so lockheed executives can buy a third mansion for their 18 year old russian mistress on the french riviera
keep working hard, the millionaire class is depending on you!

>>34906466
Google "nations without central bank"

>>34906466
1) MIC making bank
2) A'stan is loaded with mineral resources
3) Poppy fields/heroin/hash

I'm sure there's a lot more to it than that.

Keep in mind, how long were we in Germany after WWII ended???

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>>34906717
Not everything is a meme anon.

How much time and how many resources would it take, that is realistically politically acceptable?

More to the point, what realistic measures can be taken to defeat the Taliban (Afghan and Pakistani), Haqqani Network, LET, Khorasan Group/ISIS respectively?

I'm not against staying in Afghanistan in any way, but think we should stay there as a stop-gap, not in pursuit of "winning"

Back to you, Clausewitz.

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>>34907133
i think we sorta have...

>>34907182
implying we're not still fighting ww2

>>34907040
Underrated boast

>>34907133
Should someone set up a strawpoll asking how many people would be interested in becoming colonial afghans?

>>34907040
Please tripfag, tell me of the vast oil reserves in Afghanistan?

I'd love to know, along with all of ISAF.

>There is a state of perpetual war between the nations of Oceania, Eurasia and Eastasia

>>34906466
Heroin ain't gonna protect itself

>>34906755
If the UN flips its shit, we simply cut their bank account to 0% and see how long they last without US taxpayer dollars.

>>34906717
Their capital is Kabul, FYI. Why don't we turn Kabul into a new parking lot?

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>>34907320
will it be a democratic parking lot??

>>34906595
>And Democracy doesn't work here, why would it work in Afghanistan?
But it does work in Afghanistan. The last time the Taliban tried to scare people away from the polls with violence the voting % actually jumped.

Though that was also helped by the part where they immediately hunted down the guys and killed them all.

>>34907373
>But it does work in Afghanistan. The last time the Taliban tried to scare people away from the polls with violence the voting % actually jumped.

Told myself the same thing in Iraq (OIF 06-07, Nineveh), and that obviously turned out swimmingly.

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>>34906466
We have won, and by we I mean the guys producing and prescribing opiates to 1/3 adult Americans.

https://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2017/03/daily-chart-3

>>34907320
Because we're not fighting the government in Kabul. They are, ostensibly, our allies.

>>34907320
>knows literally nothing about the war in a-stan

Do you remember how "Shock and Awe" on Baghdad totally destroyed Iraqi capability to resist? Neither do I.

>>34907081
That's the whole point of this war, it's idealogical cleansing.

>>34906466
>Why the fuck haven't we won yet?

Nobody fucking remembers why we're there in the first place.

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THESE PEOPLE DO NOT FUCKING READ BOOKS!

They do not beat their dicks to porn.
They do not talk to women.
They do not date women.
They do not hang out with women.
They cannot fucking look at women, they are wrapped up in garbage bags.
Their culture is a fucking farce. It is a tribal bag wrapped birth capacitor.
You cannot advance a culture when 50% of the fucking population gets stoned because they were raped because they are never allowed to expose their face because they are never allowed to communicate with the opposite sex unless sold as a sex slave wife to a moosh shitskin goat fucking hadji camel faggot square box worshiping 5 times per day delusional cave dwelling boy fucker.

Gas them all. VX gas the entire nation. VX gas Pakistan before they have a chance to launch their nukes. Gas them all. VX mecca. VX the Saudis. VX iraq, VX Iran, VX VX fucking VX.

>>34906508
Mongols and greeks raped them pretty good.

>>34906755
Sandnigger tribes have been killing other slightly different sandnigger tribes in afghanistan since the first two dune coons walked into that place. Afghanistan has never been as peaceful as a first or second world country, and it won't ever be. The definition of terrorism is using violence against a non-military target to achieve a political goal. This has been more or less the afghani way of life for over a millenia. If you're going to say one of the 3 dozen or so tribes in afganistan is allied with terrorists you might as well and should go out and show that entire tribe the door that everyone goes through after they die, because that's how afghanistan tribes survived. Tribe leader says we shoot these people, everyone in tribe shoot these people. Tribe leader says don't shoot these people, nobody shoots those people. Tribe leaders says pay me lots of money and everyone pays him money. You can't effectively fight afgani peoples without understanding, knowing, and running HUMINT constantly on each afghani tribe. The thing is, every tribe probably declared war on the united states at one point in the past 30 years. A couple might have even reversed the decision. The solution was and is, like it always is with war, either exterminate the fuckers, show them why they'd be better off helping or trading with you instead of fighting you, or leave them alone.

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>>34907277
>What is the second largest source of oil just North of Afghanistan
So you drilled the oil congrats, how you gonna move it? Oil wars aren't just about securing "Where" the oil comes from, it's also about "How" the oil gets from point A to B. Pipelines could be looked at by future historians as "how nations were drawn in this era". When you look at the geography of that region, piping it through A-stan makes the most sense.
>Russia gets fucked
>China gets fucked
>can be pumped straight into Europe and even to America through a trans Atlantic pipline
It's politics man, politics.

>>34907040
>Afghanistan
>oil

Because the populace is the enemy, If you kill the government, a insurgency occurs, then when you destroy insurgent bases/ buildings you (sometimes) kill civvies, then their family gets angry, then they join the insurgency, and then endless war.

>>34907757
You know, what if the western world decided that the ME was beyond saving and just bulldozed the civilizations there and replaced them with westerners driving the oil pumps? Wouldn't that solve a whole lot of problems better than the way we're dealing with it now?

>>34908878
Because the money required to reconstruct and restaff all that infrastructure would make reunification NK and SK look sane. OPEC and Israel are the only reasons that we're helping these people but they make damn good arguments to not kill everyone because that would collapse the global economy.

>>34906466
>trashcanistan main export is opium
>big pharm controls politicians
>'murica is currently in opiate epidemic

the jews don't want us to win anon, they poison our youth with drugs and brain wash the remainder with bi-racial/gay/trans propaganda and the sheeple are throwing money at them without a care in the world. all whilst sucking the wealth out of our nation and using our men to fight their wars for them

we will never "win" afghan unless we follow the tried and effective method of breeding it out of them

>>34908866
Whoops, silly me. Forgot to say this. It fucks Russia and especially China by NOT allowing an oil pipeline to go through A-Stan. China is desperate for Oil and is willing to pay overpriced. By blocking it by I don't know, a war where we occupy the entire fucking country with our troops would surely hamper any Chinese plans in the region.

>>34907500
Well, if you were there, you'd know it's not Iraqis.

>>34908866
Ever watch There will be Blood?

You don't have to drill directly above it.

"I Drank Your Milkshake!"

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>>34906492
>winning was never the goal

is this what your dad said when he came back from nam filled with yellow semen?

>>34906466
It doesn't really surprise me I mean we lost to a bunch of communist farmers with rifles

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making a meme

>>34908878
Imagine the new tourist spots, the glorious cities built in these lands

We can only wish

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>>34906717
>It takes time and resources to pacify and reform a region, jackasses.
yeahhhh when 15 years of your time and resources hasn't at least suppressed opposition in the region to somewhat manageable levels, you've probably failed. The last fighting season was one of the bloodiest since the initial intervention in 2001, and the Taliban command significantly more territory then they did before NATO drew down forces. doesn't sound like much gradual pacification and reformation is happening to me.

>We're still in Korea, Germany, France, Japan, etc to this very day.
not even comparable.
Americas influence in all those nations was influenced through decisive, conventional military action, in an era where that was something you could do. on top of that we never needed to pacify any of the nations listed through a drawn out unconventional military campaign against a somewhat popular underground movement.

>No matter what measure of success we see somehow people like you declare defeat. We've seen it from Vietnam to Iraq. It's revisionist history simply because our enemy doesn't have a capital that we can roll an armored division through. See above

the only thing revisionist is saying we won Vietnam or Iraq. We can go back and forwards all night about how America could've won or arguing that they won "militarily", but at the end of the day if you fail to decisively achieve your political goals (of which military action is just an extension of) you're the loser.
>inb4 b-but we brought NVA to the negotiating tables before we left so we won!

>>34907203
implying we're not still fighting ww1

>>34906656
>Afghanistan is Nazi Germany or Japan
It's not. Germany and Japan surrendered unconditionally. Islamic insurgents do not surrender, they are guerilla fighters.

>>34906466
We're not there to win. We're there to practice. Your soldiers are never going to be good without actual warfare experience.

>>34908898
What about Kazakhstan ? They have huge oil reserves and common border with China.

>>34909117
Germany and Japan, most importantly, didn't feel the need to continue the war after it was lost. They had tried to take over their respective neighbourhoods, they failed and understood it wasn't going to happen. There was no reason to fight the americans afterwards because their partnership was actually a safeguard against the soviets and economically useful.

Meanwhile, we're trying to actively change the way afghan society works, trying to make it a liberal society what with democracy and sending girls to school- or in the eyes of an afghan muslim, destroying all morals and order and making it a cesspool of decadence like the west. All the while using just enough force to anger the locals, but not enough to force them to change their views (or force those who keep them out of power). It's obvious the war will never end like that.

>>34908915
Its even worse, at least Iraq has been a country in the past. Afghan was only ever a collection of disparate tribes, if Kabul stopped existing the only way anyone would notice is if they saw the mushroom cloud on the horizon, and even then they wouldn't think too hard about it before going back to their Bazi boy.

>>34906466
Because you're fighting partisans rather than an organized army in mountains.

>>34908886
>not using neutron bombs so you don't fuck the infrastructure that exists
Come on man, step up.

>>34908886
>Because the money required to reconstruct and restaff all that infrastructure would make reunification NK and SK look sane.
Considering the entire area's resources would now be ours I don't see the problem.

>>34909108
>implying we're not still neanderthals beating each others' faces in with rocks
War. War never changes.

RoE prevents us from moving west to east murdering every man woman child and goat bc thats what it would take to actually win in afghanistan youll never be able to tell enemy soldiers from civilians and the huge swathes of deserts and mountains make it very difficult to navigate without shit tons of hidey holes for the enemy

why don't the police at home ever "win" either?

it's the same exact situation

>>34906466
By not pursuing the Taliban into pakistan

>>34909167
You're right, that's exactly what I meant.
You can't defeat an enemy that doesn't want to be defeated. You need to kill these kind of enemies and seek & destroy his supporting structure. This kind of warfare is called total war or scorched earth and doesn't really fit the "good guys".

>>34907108
You got a reply out of me because that's the exact thing my brother said was all around him where he was stationed

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Wonder why......

Drug War? American Troops Are Protecting Afghan Opium. U.S. Occupation Leads To All-Time High Heroin Production


http://www.globalresearch.ca/drug-war-american-troops-are-protecting-afghan-opium-u-s-occupation-leads-to-all-time-high-heroin-production/5358053

>>34907420
it's funny to me that the ludicrously expensive projects to improve irrigation just helped them increase opium production.

>>34909261
Protecting Afghan Opium =/= Allowing poppy cultivation to continue in order to avoid alienating the civilian population...

>>34909261
Have you seen the estimates for the drug trade into Russia/Ex Soviet counties?

Kinda makes it look like the Americans are trying to get them to sell drugs into Russia...

>>34906555
Truth is in these trips

But seriously we already won, the region is being restabilized after we destabilized it.

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>>34906555

top kek nigglet.. you cant teach something what you dont have yourself..

https://twitter.com/Marfacigaretka_/status/898580649992306688

>>34906466
How do you destroy an ideology with out wiping everything out?

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>>34909343
>How do you destroy an ideology with out wiping everything out?

made me cry. hahahaha..'(not even posting fuck mccain with isis)

>>34909081
>Imagine the new tourist spots
>"Come see the world's largest glass floor!"

>>34906466
>tfw there will soon be Joes who have been alive as long as this war has been going on

This is a bad sort of feel.

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>>34909354
https://twitter.com/Marfacigaretka_/status/897875036182335489

cant wait murica living afghan.

>>34908857
>Allowing poppy cultivation to continue in order to avoid alienating the civilian population
Isn't there any other cash crops that can be used as substitute?

Because if you want to stabilize the region you have to give zero fucks by picking a faction to give power to and turning a blind eye when they start chopping heads.

But we can't do that because everyone bitches about it.

As long as the CIA exists the USA will stay in Afghanistan, the whole club depends on drug money to function.

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>>34906466
>America couldnt win against chingchongs with sticks
>America cant win against durkadurkas with rocks

>>34909455
Acktually, America did beat the chinks. They just waited for them to leave before beating the pro US chinks when the US was not there.

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>>34907200
Looks like a strip mall in some God forsaken mining town.

>>34909385
Not cotton that's for sure due to the fact it would be in competition with us markets

just do it Wehrmacht's Barbarossa Camapign style: to avoid time and manpower consuming house to house fights, lever every shag, every settlement or village, every block or town quarter from which the own troops are being shot at to the ground by using heavy artillery and airstrikes. bonus: sigificant decimation of carpet fuckers in general, the locals will deal with parts of the taliban because of fear of brrrrrrt themselves and of course more brrrrrt. it would be full of win!

>>34910091
saffron, loads of emeralds

its actually 90 percent pakistan.

we give them millions every year to get rid of terrorists, but they only care about the ones attacjing pakistan. while the FATA is swarming with terrorists, gun dealers, drug dealers etc pakistan pockets the cash. They dont want to see a strong/not completely shit afghanistan because that means they'd have to deal with shit on two borders more than they already do.

also, a large majority of the afghan population are shitkins, but there are many people that look russian/asian. Its just that the shitskins cause the most trouble because of the influence of the FATA, and pashtun culture demands being hospital to guests (militants). obviously that always backfires, but afghans are stubborn.

>>34906532
>We value human lives, even the ones we don't like.

LOL
>>34906555
>How can you win a war when you are trying to teach non whites about civilization? Muslims at that too
Not your problem.

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>>34909276
it's kinda like that was the whole point!

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>>34907757
I second this, when will america grow some balls and glass those slimy sand niggers

>>34909151
They're under russian allegiance, defense and influence last I recall.

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>>34906466
We've effectively lost any chance of "winning" in Afghanistan, the government we support is hilariously incompetent and corrupt, the population does NOT want us there to the point where the Taliban and other ACFs are literally joining the army and police ranks and killing us when we attempt to work alongside them. That alone tells you how much we've failed when the enemies counter-psyops are backing major green on blue incidents against all coalition forces.

We need to pull out, 4,000 more troops isn't going to do shit at this point, its fucking over.

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>>34909167
>Meanwhile, we're trying to actively change the way afghan society works, trying to make it a liberal society what with democracy and sending girls to school-
Except Afghanistan used to be like that. Then the Cold war happened and all shit went down the drain with the US supporting Muslim rebels that ended up being Jihadist and/or replaced by Jihadists

http://www.businessinsider.com/astonishing-photos-of-prewar-afghanistan-show-everyday-life-in-peaceful-kabul-2013-2

>>34906466
They're still learning how to fight an armed population that won't accept foreign rule.

They don't want to give up.

>>34906466
prolly cause we can only "WIN" it if we colonize the shit and are 100% in there. Which would be beyond retarded like jesus christ

>>34906466
opium fields, rare earth metals, military industrial complex, and multinational conglomerates all need money.

>>34908954
lmao good meme but i doubt your fatass can even run a mile in under 30 minutes, even if not how about you go die for something instead of being a worthless sack of shit on the internet

>>34909261
Poppy fields are Afghanistans only cash crop

>>34906466
Because when you occupy someone's country the inhabitants are bound to get pissed off, ergo the insurgency will never die as long as someone sees their family die in a drone strike or their brother/childhood friend gets shot by a hotheaded marine.

>>34906555
By year 12 the dog would be reading the Iliad in 4 different dialects, and be a world acclaimed authority on the Iliad. by year 15 of teaching a a mudslime civilization the mudslime would be either dead from explosions or pined away from not being able to fuck little boys and small animals.

>>34907187
My point is that COIN is not an easy task to accomplish, especially when you're itching for a solution in the short term, hellbent on leaving for political gain, and unwilling to step up and do what's required from a military standpoint.

There is a simple solution to the problem. Not an easy solution, but simple: absolutely inundate the country with American personnel and stay there indefinitely. Go full Marshall plan while we're there as well; build infrastructure and bring western culture. Just as Victory Davis Hanson claims, in order to reform our enemy we must defeat, humiliate, occupy, and then reform them.

The idea that we've made no significant progress in Iraq and Afghanistan--much as OP and other posit--is patently false. It takes time. Especially when you have people like >>34909099 declaring defeat in Iraq before we've completely left.

>>34909099
We brought NV to their knees and to the negotiating table and reached an agreement in 1973 which ensured the existence of a free South Vietnam--The Paris Peace Accords. We then left having achieved our goal of the containment of Communism.

2 years later NV violates the Paris Peace Accords and invades the South. A war weary US political class refuses to initiate a Third Indochina War and doesn't intervene. Somehow that's a loss?

By that logic, the United States has lost every conflict it ever refused to participate in.

What's more, you are aware we are still in Iraq, right? What's more, you're pants on head retarded if you don't think we've suppressed opposition in Afghanistan. In Iraq we tried to turn their country back over to them before they were ready and they fled in the face of ISIS only to regain the territory a couple years later.

>>34909234
Pretty much the answer. It's because of Pakistan.
>>34910570
>plunging Aghanistan into perpetual war
What? Aghanistan was already in perpetual war when the US came there. This thread is filled with people who have no idea what they're taking about.

>>34908923
>
you can try to slant drill a well hundreds of miles long, but since this isnt cartoons and you arent Dr. Doom or some shit, it isnt going to work.

>>34909385
mining, AND if they could avoid being shitheads for 5 fucking minutes the timber

>>34909004
i hadn't seen 3 until very recently. that flick was an absolute joke. first blood was god tier and 2 was alright, the rest are irredeemable trash.

>>34910586
>die for something
>literally died for nothing

>>34910691
>We brought NV to their knees and to the negotiating table and reached an agreement in 1973 which ensured the existence of a free South Vietnam--The Paris Peace Accords. We then left having achieved our goal of the containment of Communism.

By "brought NV to their knees", do you mean giving the NV negotiators every concession they demanded, like allowing the NVA to stay in conquered territory, and having the US refuse to name SV as a sovereign nation in the accords?

>>34910502
This. Sure Afghanistan would have been a socialist state, but a stable socialist state that would be something like Kazakhstan or some other old soviet republic which eventually changes it's economy to adopt more capitalistic ideasl and not the terrorist infested shithole it was and is. But hey hindsight is 20/20.

>>34910749
you don't invade a country 7,000 miles away for the timber retard.

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>>34909004
gotta love that propaganda.

>>34910839
>
i never said it was the reason fucker. it was a major export pre muslim and soviet rumpus.

>People say Sun Tzu is common sense, no point reading it
>Nobody listened to his warning about protracted campaigns
War profiteers are happy though.

>>34910888
Sun Tzu was advising on how to, "win" wars...

>>34910750
I agree slightly. First blood is excellent, but 2 and 3 are both decent enough action flicks especially if you get off on muscle mass. I don't really count the newest one cause it was a cash grab, didn't have the same feel. But it was cool to see him rip that dudes throat out.

>>34906555
>How can you win a war when you are trying to teach non whites about civilization? Muslims at that too

Afghanistan was 10 times more civilizaed than the shithole you eventually created for them.
Fuck, you might as well say you fucked the country up because you couldn't stand a country in the middle of nowhere that made US look like a 3rd world shithole in comparison.

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>>34910989
you are waisting your time.

>>34910691
you lost in vietnam, get over it

>>34906674
t. Toyota Hiroshima

>>34910502
>>34910989
Memes. KABUL used to be like that, tolerated by the conservative country population because their way of life was tolerated as well (and because it was a local king doing his thing as they always do, not a foreign infidel invader).
Also, that was before demographics went overboard and left tons of boys without a livelihood and anything to do but get their virgins the ballistic way.

>>34910809
You do realize that kazakhstan is a totally different case being populated by a good chunk of ethnic russians? You're giving in to liberal propaganda that likes to paint all the blame for anything on america. In their view, funding islamists for a few years back in the 80s can somehow determine afghan politics forever. This despite the americans now funding democrats for 15 years without ever making success. Almost as if afghanistan really was islamist all along (why do you think there were no secular rebels to fund?)

>>34906466
China is profiting big time on resources while we sit on our hands and babysit the afgans.

>>34906466
Because the Afghans are fucking incompetent at trying to hold a country together.

>>34911570
Less "incompetent at trying to hold a country together" and more "never needed and still doesn't need a government to live". Afgans, that term itself a misnomer because there is no single afghan race, ethnicity, or culture from which nation-states are formed from and by, used to have a single king. Kings who did little else besides leave everyone alone were considered good kings. Bad kings kicked the fucking beehive for more money and they were usually killed by one or more of the twenty tribes they pissed off.

>>34906717
>France
No

>>34906466
No end goal>>34906492

We won when we took control of the opium. We there to occupy
>what is a proxy war
>what is occupation forces

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>>34906466
>Why the fuck haven't we won yet?
because Pakistan https://youtu.be/znOzLESNfj0

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march 20th to april 1st, total military victory over Iraq

then insurgency starts and every other man, woman, and child is a combatant and international law just doesn't allow us to ice them all.

>>34909010
was that operation red wings?

the was never meant to be won. It was to go on forever to keep making new terrorists. If it was meant to be won. then the CIA and SF would have plastered Bin Laden against a cave wall in that first month and then we would have called it a day. They let Bin Laden escape. when the "found" him again 8 years later. They killed him. Then they didn't do anything to Pakistan. They went and then toppled Libya and attempted to topple Syria. To make terrorists in more oil important regions closer enough to not have to deal with Russia, China, or the Stans.

we can't get enough popular opinion against the wars to end them for good like Vietnam, because there is no draft. the war just doesn't affect anyone that doesn't get themselves involved. At least in america where muslims aren't trying to kill us every other day.Sorry Europe. Speaking of Europe. there are probably western pro immigration NGOs behind the massive rapefugee waves into europe.

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>>34906466
the UN's a piece of shit and won't let us take over there shit plus Obama screwed are relations with Iraq so now there Jihadi central.

War is profit. But I heard a quote over there supposedly from the locals. They say "you may have the clocks, but we have the time."

They hide shit bury it, protect each other and are willing to wait us out. We role in secure an area, then when the main force roles out the fucking sand rats come out of hiding and start shit up again.

No one from Alexander the Great to us has really beaten the afghans. They are just cockroaches.

>>34912969
We would have to glass the sand rats.

>>34906532
>We value human lives,
you are sooooo full of shit right now

>>34909099
>yeahhhh when 15 years of your time and resources hasn't at least suppressed opposition in the region to somewhat manageable levels, you've probably failed.
Anon, it took over 300 years to deal with the Native Americans. And they were both in our backyard and being colonized by us as we went along.

Dealing with this shit requires significant time and resources. And more importantly it involves a cycle of bribery, stoking tribal rivalries, and short periods of extremely violent and bloody combat. None of which the American (or European) populace has the stomach for in the modern day.

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>>34909010
Pls finish

>>34906508

Afghanistan was a Greek kingdom for several hundred years.

Come to think of it, what the Greeks (Alexander the Great) managed to accomplish in the middle east was extraordinary.

They pretty much conquered every kingdom they came across from Greece to India.

And they did it on foot and on horseback.

>>34912811
>total military victory over Iraq

total military victory against a country with no navy, airforce, SAM/AAA defense, tanks, and a rag tag army.

SAD!

Because counterinsurgencies aren't conventional wars that can be won in a few years. It takes significant investments in time, money, and men to change the culture of a region. "Why haven't we won!" is the go-to phrase of someone with an incredibly simplistic view of the situation, and almost certainly no knowledge of COIN operations. It's almost as bad as "lulz just nookem, rite guys?"

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>>34910586
there is nothing to me worth dying for

>>34909010
Operation red wings vs Battle of Hill 3234.
Americans can have all that tech but still are weak and pussies in real combat, need to stay playing BF and call of duty

>>34907200
Modern day Dodge City.

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>>34906717
>Pacify

>>34913321
>to change the culture of a region

Why? There's no reason. Just let them be, with a few caveats of course. It's not worth the American lives nor the Afghan lives. It's just a giant money pit. War for expenditure's sake.

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>>34910431
>>34912998

I wouldn't say he's full of shit. American culture values life more than most third-world nations. Most first-world nations do. It takes generations of cultural evolution to transform a place like Afghanistan to what we would consider comfortable living.

>>34906466
Winning isn't what they want. Keeping a good revenue stream is.

The only way to win is to do as the British in Malaysia, Rhodesia in Rhodesia. You have to move everyone into protected towns. To keep them from being attacked and from them being the attacker. Then you buy off the remaining insurgents over a decade to be good citizens.

>>34914571
The Rhodesians lost and the insurgency in Malaysia wasn't super popular + British weren't hated or seen as invaders by the general population.

>>34913139
again another stupid comparison, for starters the fact it took 300 years was in large part due to limited infrastructure for mass movement and technological limitations. American settlers didn't have tanks, drones, hell-fire missiles and helicopters it was always gonna take fucking ages to consolidate an entire continent full of forests, rivers and mountains on horses and wagons.

Secondly they were colonizing America as in taking land to live there themselves, even the most adept mental gymnastic would have a hard time comparing Afghanistan 2017 to that.

>>34910691
>reached an agreement in 1973 which ensured the existence of a free South Vietnam
top kek, no one with half an ounce of common sense believed that

> years later NV violates the Paris Peace Accords and invades the South.
who possibly saw that coming???

>A war weary US political class refuses to initiate a Third Indochina War and doesn't intervene. Somehow that's a loss?
>implying it was only the politicians weary of way
The VC/NVA endured enough US military action and inflicted enough significant damage despite serious odds and near destruction on the battlefield to ensure the US would never have the spirit to indefinitely protect there allies and still maintain enough manpower to topple them the moment the US left the picture, so yeah the US lost.

>By that logic, the United States has lost every conflict it ever refused to participate in.
Except they did participate in 'nam and pulling out 2 years before your allies collapse doesn't discount there massive investment in the country which failed to offset the aforementioned occurrence. so yeah stupid statement.

There is no goal, there are no terms of victory, there's no one to negotiate with, and we're funding every faction we fight with/against.

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>>34910691
>What's more, you are aware we are still in Iraq, right? In Iraq we tried to turn their country back over to them before they were ready and they fled in the face of ISIS only to regain the territory a couple years later.

whats more is over a decade later Iraq is more of an ally of Iran(our greatest regional state enemy) and dozens of Iranian aligned Shiite militias (many of whom America fought directly) then they ever were before, success amirite? or is pacifying and reformation still got another half a century to go?

>What's more, you're pants on head retarded if you don't think we've suppressed opposition in Afghanistan.
That would be like pest control telling you they've sorted out you insect infestation by killing half the insects in your house. They're gonna come back and as the last few years in A'stan has shown they're doing exactly that and coming back stronger then ever, you're pants on your head retarded if you think America has suppressed the Taliban in any long term or meaningful way.

>>34909099
>inb4 b-but we brought NVA to the negotiating tables before we left so we won!

the US did not even do that at all, operation linebacker was launched to put up a facade of a strong negotiating position to fool the US public even as the US diplomats in paris gave numerous concessions to the NV diplomats to get to back to the table

>>34906466
Simple as the ROE

>>34916653
>no viable political goal
>no plan to achieve that goal
>no strategy to execute plan
>no it was the ROE

>>34916653
this>>34917655

also implying that an unrestrained US army wouldn't inevitably cause more civilian casualties and increase the scale of the opposition just as it did in 'nam or for the soviets in the 'stan.

The blaming ROE meme needs to die. modern ROE for all its flaws and inconveniences for the boots on the ground have stopped the Insurgencies in Afghanistan and to a lesser extent in Iraq from absolutely exploding out of control, atleast in comparison to previous COIN efforts. The reality is Western nations don't have the stamina or fortitude for occupations and insurgecys, they should stick to Special forces, airstrikes and drones where they really feel the need to exert influence or kill bad guys

>>34909010
>lost
Not sure that's something Chad should be bragging about.

>>34907060
and since that doesn't work, the war just creates millions of people who view the US and the west in general as the enemy and provides justification for terrorism. What do you think blowback is? Not one of those unjustified wars has made a lick of sense or any benefit to the world's or the US' safety or prosperity

>>34914376
>Osama Bin Laden's men and the many others like them weren't a threat to american lives
I mean we all thought that too but that turned out to be full of shit.
Afghanistan is a war where removing those forces has directly allowed us to remove a foreign threat to the people of the US and help improve the locals quality of life.

>>34913242
It's a country that is a sliver away from being land locked, such that naval forces would have been irrelevant anyways. And they did have an air force and tanks but Migs and T-72s suck dick like their training and everything else they had. Sorry that the entirety of soviet conventional arms and tactics proved retarded and useless in their hands but a victory is a victory.

Nobody is drafting you idiots so why are you so ass mad about wars you have no part in? You'd think you hippie shits would eventually give up on trying to get us to give up on ever fighting and then complaining or even gloating about how we lost after we give into you shits and leave. You can't win with you people. You ARE the unwinnable war.

>>34918440
They shot first dipshit.

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>>34906466
Well clearly we're not trying to win, we're trying to have fun.

>>34918652
Still a miserable failure.

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>>34908954

If you don't have goals, you can't lose.

>>34906755
You are thinking in terms of countries, they are not. Tajekistan , Pakistan and maybe Iran are the only countries that have anything to worry about even if the whole Afghanistan goes Taliban. The Taliban are a collection of tribal/religious leaders who only want to rule their vally . The threat to US comes from AQ and AQ thrives on instability.

>>34907187
Make a deal with the Taliban. They govern the country and make sure its not used against US and in return US ensures no other country is going to come for their poppies or slaves.

>>34907253
If they could provide internet access I'd go. Nothing wrong with living life with three 5/10 wives farming opium high as a kite until death.