FUTURE NAVAL THREAD or future weapons in general

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>>34898038
how does it land

>>34898201
It only launches one plane and the pilot is expendable

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>or future weapons in general
God hates us.
God hates us all.

Also, anyone got any idea what the next big small arms development will be? We are currently in the age of refinement. I reckon we won't see anything really crazy until power supplies are miniaturised.

>>34898026
>>34898195

Both of these concepts are really stupid. You'd be better off using a clamshell top and no conning tower. This way you'd have a fully usable flat top with a (mostly) unobstructed view.

>>34898201
Carefully

>>34898215

Caseless is pretty obviously the next "innovation" as will electronic ignition. Both will have to be refined though, their present forms are too fragile for mass adaption.

If/when fusion power happens then a portable fusor generator could power lasers or railguns, both of which could have adjustable intensity/range based on the amount of power supplied.

>>34898201
One way trip comrade.

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>>34898215
its already here mac daddy

>>34898227
Yeah I though about caseless, it just seems that every project with it dies. Would be good to see it come to fruition.

Small arm rail guns would be very good. You could have handguns/rifles that fire heavier projectiles and still defeat armour consistently

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>>34898201
vtol?
>>34898217
or maybe something like this?

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>>34898239

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>>34898215
air burst munitions

I wonder if they will ever revisit the oicw/ alien pulse rifle

>>34898215
At this point it will be things around the firearms that change. You're going to see every soldier being equipped with HUD with camera/ UV laser combo strapped to his rifle, with HUD displaying point of aim(gathered from the laser-camera combo) and bunch of sensors telling him everything he needs to know about both rifle and overall tactical situation. Amount of ammo he has in magazine, whether it's on safe, full auto or semi-auto, if the round is in chamber etc. with pop-out warnings telling him for example "doublefeed" or "bolt not in battery" whenever malfunction occurs. Add in simple interface allowing him to open map/gps with positions and status of his fellow soldiers marked on it, system allowing to identify friendly targets(and inform soldier about it in instantly visible, but not distracting way) etc. etc. etc.

Things like caseless ammo or electrical priming are promising but they don't give performance improvement that makes them worthwhile of spending billions into entirely new technology.

>>34898262
Remove that silly deck hanger thingy with just watertight elevators (or single hanger door behind tower). That thing is a waste of deck space.

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>>34898289
>>34898281
chinas already on it

>Flight IV Burkes
FUCK OFF

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>>34898319
another pic
It uses a bolt action in the rear for the 20-25mm grenade to save weight/cost/bulkiness over the American oicw. has the computer and battery built into the gun instead of just the scope, also saves on bulkiness. it looked the American oicw was 2 guns put together where as this seems to be built from the ground up.

looks cool

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did the oicw have tech similar to these?
or was it just a range finder for airbursting the grenade?

>>34898195
Don't know what's more unbelievable about this, the sub/carrier combo, or the Russians actually making a CAT carrier without ramps

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The D Evo sight is pretty cool.

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is it real?

what/ why is it /k/?

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>>34898379
it is but it looks like shit

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>>34898379
fuck ya it is

>>34898262

Honestly the whole idea of submarine aircraft carriers is really fucking stupid. If the government is going to spend over a billion dollars on a submarine, they're better off making one that can carry smaller submarines which can deploy commandos more effectively.

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>>34898217
>>34898290
I guess having the tower off to one side with fuck with its hydrodynamics while dived

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>>34898407
that's actually an interesting point.
they have modified ballistic subs for seal insertion but I wonder how much research has gone into building one from the ground up specifically for this purpose?

like a "carrier" of sorts with many SDVs onboard. (as far as I know all of them can only carry one with maybe 6-8 SEALs onboard)

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>>34898448
The new wishful US diesel sub looks it.

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>>34898407
it seems mini subs are all the rage. this is an indian concept but I don't know much about it.
I remember seeing a picture of the new Russian sub being built and it had a fairly large mini sub docked to its belly wich could apparently dive much deeper then the mothership.. maybe for cutting under water cables or some shit.

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>>34898461
that things dope.
>66 SEALs?
how big are those SDVs gonna be?
I know the ones they used before were pretty cramped, although I think the dry versions were bigger but I thought they never really used them?

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French concept for an "sdv"/ mini sub.
I watched a video on it and it seemed pretty bad ass. has torpedos and shit.
like an underwater fighter jet

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>>34898513
another pic
its called the dcns-smx-29
theres a cgi video on youtube about it

>>34898319
>>34898341
S. Korea also has one

>>34898215
>XM25

But the funding got cut, the basic gist I got is that it's a universally loved and useful weapon, but there is some procurement shenanigans going on.

>>34898553
It was going to be fielded this year fully with the Army but shenanigans involving H&K and Orbital ATK means that it may not actually be used in the future

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>>34898553
I heard it was mixed.
some loved it and called it the punisher.
others had problems because some time you just need a rifle to point and shoot.also it was very heavy.

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>>34898541
very similar looking to the original oicw concept. looks bulky and hard to handle. I love the idea though and hope they keep working on it.

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>>34898553
yes but it wasn't a combined arms rifle like the oicw. it was just the grenade launcher portion and air burst tech. but im sure they can take what they learned from it and continue researching the real life alien pulse rifle.

unless Canada beats them to it.......

>>34898571
any idea what happened?

why would orbital ATK be involved?
don't they make space ships??

>>34898571
I haven't completely immersed myself in it, but I've gotten an overwhelming sense of a bunch of manager faggots not coming to an agreement who gets what slice of the pie.
>>34898575
>>34898596
The wikipedia flat out states it fucked shit up and some soldiers actually left their M4 behind in favor of this one. I have by no means any military experience, but if any vets could chime in, it seems like a valid option for some individual in a platoon to carry this around as a primary weapon.
>>34898602
From Wikipedia, once again, I can conclude the following:
1. The Spaceship mofo’s do all the gadgetting stuff to make the grenades go boom boom on the right distance and all the mathematic stuff
2. H&K made the guns but got butthurt after they found out the rounds are banned under some ancient convention about not having ballistic stuff under 400 grams blowing people up (NO EXPLOSIVE BOOLETS YOU GUYS). So a technology has surpassed old conventions kind of deal, they wanted a go ahead from the US of A that specifically states they can build this ammunition and weapons and won’t face some butthurt UN or whoever the fuck else things its inhumane court case.
3. Spaceship mofos litigate H&K over the fact that they need prototypes, H&K doesn’t deliver due to point 3, shit gets stalled, Army doesn’t get prototypes on time.
4. ?????????
5. No fucking profit for anyone involved because a bunch of managers are fucking shit up as usual, insert thisiswhywecanthavenicethings.png

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>>34898281
I can see how it goes when America finally adopts it
>We like it but the rifle part makes it weigh to much, take it off
>ok
>Makes grunt carry that and an m4a9

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>none of these niggas are posting actual future submarines

pic related

spooky new spy sub

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL4RBZV7Wjc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LynU0Lgf3oA&

This is really cool shit

>>34898858
Meh looks like a copy of a Chinese UUV network drone system.

>>34898470
The Losharik?

>>34898038
How is this an advantage over just launching from the sub?

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>>34898800

>>34898470

This is the new one that they are building atm, based on an oscar 2. The earlier was based on a delta iv iirc

>>34898798

>>34899052

Losharik is stand-alone. They have several different types of deep diving minisub which have been attached to motherships in the past.

>>34899063
get your shit on deck before surfacing
fuckin ghost carrier levels of fuckery possible with a set up like that

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>>34899082

>>34898239
IsthataFAMAS.jpg

>>34898201
>implying

>>34898461
I remember reading the article he wrote about that and coming out unimpressed, he seems not to be an engineer and while good at history and drawing (he does this shit in MSPaint and Gimp) he seems to miss crucial engineering aspects- like the fact that that blunt stern where the external pressure doors are would create an awful lot of noise, or that automatic torpedo indexing systems are fairly bulky and terefore the capacity of the torpedo room isn't just set by how many weapons you could cram in.

>>34899092
>This is the new one that they are building atm, based on an oscar 2.

>Check out paralay, balancers and militaryrussia
>No such 'project'
>Check militaryphotos
>No such 'project'

Yeah, sure. Based on an old design model my ass.

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>>34898525
Gerry Anderson was way ahead of this.

>>34899202

Project 09852

http://www.sevmash.ru/rus/news/1543-2012-12-20-07-05-14.html

>>34899202

Apologize

>>34898596
That looks so simple and corner-cutty. I love Canada tech

>>34898038
>>34898201
Kekked way too hard

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>>34898026
>>34898028
>>34898038
Retarded. For the same cost you could have multiple, much larger surface carriers. It would also be noisy, there is no way to land the plane unless your catch lines are PERFECT (never are) and why is that a Su-35?
Also, a conning tower? On a future sub? Retarded.
>>34898048
Muh stealthy ekranoplan-thing
>what is the surface duct
I like Ekranoplans as a concept, speed and surprise can mitigate the risks of amphibious landings, but as actual vessels/patrol craft they're not seaworthy enough.
>>34898157
Only one left in service, as a test bed for new missiles. They were too beautiful to live.
>>34898195
Sub carriers are STUPID and will NEVER HAPPEN. Subs are already really restricted for volume, and non-cylindrical inner hulls lose a lot of structural strength. So that thing would need multiple cylindrical hulls in parallel... there just would not be enough volume unless it was so large it was spectacularly expensive. Also that hull form is going to make a lot of noise. Conning towers are a necessary evil that is becoming unnecessary.
>>34898262
Lol, no.

Pic related is what a deep diving sub looks like, the white spaces are available for use by the crew everything else is flooded. This is a deep-diving russian spy sub.

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>>34898026
I've always liked the French submarine/corvette hybrid concept.

>>34899813

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>>34898798

Spy subs are spoopy af.

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Jimmy_Carter

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>>34899813

This is a real example of the mothership-parasite sub concept, the Losharik is designed for ultra deep diving with the spherical (stronger than cylindrical, but even less volume) inner hulls. A converted Delta III SSBN acts as the mother ship.

>>34899888
3spooky5me

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>>34899824
I like this idea too, they don't really dive deep like a real sub, but it gets the small ships out of the way when SHTF, it's still way cheaper than spamming FFGs/SSNs and gives you a nice standoff picket. Supposedly they're also more seaworthy, as they can fully submerge during big swell, but I'm not sure about that.
Pic related is a Russian future SSN concept but I'll never understand why they still prefer screws over pump-jets on some designs.

>>34898491
That's definitely going to need hot bunking.

>>34898354
fun fact: that shit is patented and IP is gay all the way.

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this

>>34899896
I figure parasite subs might be the future of submarine combat for 2 reasons.

First, being hit with a torpedo seems to be a death sentence for anything smaller than a cruiser. It's even worse for subs since at depth the water pressure is sometimes enough to crush interior bulkheads. So if it's not possible to withstand torpedoes, why not make smaller, cheaper subs?

Second, nuclear engines are noisy. It's unavoidable at some level because you can't really turn them off. An electric sub is way quieter but you need some way of recharging those batteries. So you have the diesel electric fighter subs dock with the mothersub (That sounds dirty but I don't know why) for recharge, air, and crew rotations and let the fighter subs go out and kill the enemy.

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>>34900240
Parasite UUVs, maybe, because powerful sonar needs a big computer and a big array which you don't want to an hero every time you fire a torpedo.
But manned subs, naw. And even then the "mother sub" would have to be huge to accommodate this with a sophisticated deployment / retrieval system. Or else, fairly standard sized SSNs would act as underwater control stations for nuclear powered UUVs.
I mean think about the potential within a concept like >>34898858. That's the direction I would foresee subs going.
Something like pic related might be an option as a mother ship and the fact that Russia is pursuing this concept evidences that it is feasible, though they're using it to deploy hundred-megaton nuclear torpedoes rather than UUVs.
Retrieval for recharging is where I would see the problems for this idea, but if you could keep multiple UUVs out at any one time you could have an underwater CBG type force using the nuke boat to recharge the batteries. Maybe you wouldn't need full retrieval for routine recharging but you would need it for maintenance else the mother sub would have to surface every time to tend to the babby subs.

>>34898239
>>34898239
I actually thought that was some kind of massively upgraded FAMAS at first glance.

>>34898026
>a fucking ramp

>>34900213
>still posting some design students' final project as something real

i don't understand

>>34899042

we were the first with the UUVs, which were originally built as support vehicles for offshore drilling stations

now that undersea mining is actually becoming a thing (especially now that the paris agreement is gone) America can really excel here

>>34898026
this submarine...will kill

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>>34901083
...its crew?

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>>34899941
the future husky class ssn will start construction in 2020 or something!

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>>34901511

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>>34901524

>>34899114
Why'd they put the wings on backwards

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>>34901545
this is the project 881 mercury ssgn, canceled when the cold war ended.

the irtysj amphora sonar complex used by the graney/yasen class was originally meant for project mercury.

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>>34901620

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>>34901638
it has the same weird forward swept sail as on the borei class.

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>>34900213
that game was awesome

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>>34898262
>a submarine, submarine tender
Lmao

>>34899082
>>34899114
Berkut is that you?

>>34900812
Radio doesn't work underwater. Especially under salt water, the stuff acts like a faraday cage a hundred feet thick. It's one of the reasons modern torpedoes are tow cable operated.

>>34899824
Id like to know more.
Whats the point?

>>34902041
Subs don't communicate using radio, they use acoustic-based systems and some other fancy classified stuff.
Torpedoes are usually guided by wire primarily.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater_acoustic_communication

Noise is a concern. But advanced sonar is getting better at picking out signals from noise, brief noises that are not loud like quick bursts of data are much harder to pick out than what subs are usually looking for (constant mechanical frequencies emitted by onboard systems).

>>34898858
What is this a sub for ANTX?

>>34902365
It's proposed for Virginia/Seawolf platforms.

>>34901511
>>34901545
>>34901545

Alfa 2.0?

>>34898422
>Carrier based, torpedo carrying He 162
I'm fucking impressed. They managed to have an image of a giant Nazi submersible aircraft carrier, where the giant Nazi submersible aircraft carrier ISN'T the stupidest part of the image.

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>>34902572
No, it'll supposedly be all-steel like the Akulas, and it's very much doubtful it will have the lead-bismuth reactors. I still don't understand why they don't have pump-jets and instead like screws. Maybe it's just the concept isn't accurate.
Borei has a pumpjet. Yasen has a screw. Maybe there's some advantage to this I've never heard about or maybe it's just cheaper than western style propulsors.

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>>34900844
Vantiks fell for it for a few months thinking it was real.

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>>34903310

>>34898262
>Watch as the young submarines nestle closer to the mother submarine for sustenance and warmth.

>>34903251
don't all subs have propellers?
ive never heard of water jet on a sub.


>except the catapillar drive of course

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>>34899824
looks sci fi as fuck.

cant really think of a great reason to have a sub that goes faster above water. I read a little bit about it and it has a semi submerged mode where it only sticks the top bit out of the water and it can use radar and anti-air like a conventional ship.

looks cool but I don't see it really being the future

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more concept images of the frigate sub crossover

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>>34903579
>>34903596
one more cuase it is sexy

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euronaval always has some cool concept ships on display. its like comic con for boats.
especially dcns

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>>34898026
Here you go

>>34900828
It effectively is.

Battle tested now too, since the iraqi Rapid Response Division used em in Fallujah and Mosul.

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>>34903537
No, actually. The Bongs first tested pump-jets on HMS Churchill (same class as Conqueror that sank the Belgrano, though Conqueror was never given a shrouded prop). Since then propulsors have been standard on all bong SSNs, except the first-in-class boats of Swiftsure and Trafalgar which were retrofitted after launch.
Seawolf was the first 'Murican boat launched with a propulsor, so was Connecticut and Jimmy Carter, and the Virginias.
French subs also use propulsors on Triomphant SSBNs and they're on all the concepts for the upcoming french SSN.
Pump-jet propulsors are more efficient per turn than naked screws or propellers, so the sub can operate at higher speeds with less rpm. It also helps reduce cavitation by disrupting formation of cavitation bubbles on the tip of the prop and lowering the needed speed of rotation (and thus pressure differential over the blades).
But for some reason the Russians are still building boats with skewback props. The only other modern boats I can find using these are all diesels like Type-212.

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>>34903720
kek

the .50 Beowulf episode was dope tho

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>>34898048
how can this take any seas? looking at it, i think it would tilt in a large wave and cause the outward (trench side) wing to go deep into the water
do you see what i am trying to say?
that is supposed to be a littoral scout with maybe guided missile? what role does it fill

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>>34904051
its called the ghost. they can deliver special ops deep behind enemy lines and supposedly defend itself from larger threats. the reason for the "wings" is so it can be lifted out of the water and go faster because of less drag.

its a few years old now and I havnt heard anything about in a while so im guessing the project is probably not going anywhere

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>>34904113
looks really cool though.
reminds me of the shuttle from star trek

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>>34904124

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>>34904133

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>>34904141
interior shot

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>>34904153
last one

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This is our new "Successor Class", also known as the "Dreadnought Class"
It's likely to look just as stupidly proportioned as it does here. God help us.

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why not carry a bunch of these underwater fighters ala G.I joe

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>>34904206
is it dual hull like the Russian subs?

>>34904218

T H I C C
H
I
C
C

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>>34904218
I don't believe so, but I'm not at all sure. As far as I can tell, there's basically no information at all about it outside of this infographic and a couple of comments from the RN about how the missile systems will work.

>>34904247
>built with separate female quarters, amenities, and shitters
What happened to "letting women join the military will cost nothing, it's just about equality"?

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>>34904218
Njet. That would cost us precious £GBP desu.

>>34904267
Really, I'm not sure why they chose our new SSBN's to have the first ladies' privies. Even the QE class would have been better suited. I really just can't see that many women submariners.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I do find myself having a hard time trusting that our military make the best of choices.

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>>34904267
Fear not senpai. Don't you see? It's segregation.

>>34904166
it's a good concept, clearly it had some backers to get that far along into a proposal. i think that missile ship is a good application for this when operated at night. littoral sea and land attack with 5km range would be useful. with drones lasing everything today, you're basically buying another set of missiles without devoting more air assets

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>>34904307
This fucking gif, JUST SHOW ME THE BUNS DAMN IT.

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>>34904210
wtf is this??

please tell me someone strapped guns to one of these!

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would it be practical to make one of these submersible?
have a mini invasion force able to sneak up close to enemy beaches.
if you had a couple dozens of them they could establish a beach head before enemys even knew they were coming

>>34904342
https://e621.net/post/show/1008139

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>>34904342
Bad news anon...

>>34904599
Probably not, but imagine a submarine that could carry an invasion force

>>34903916
She desperately needs a set of implants to fill out that volume.
>blueboard

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>>34904789
ya that's what I mean.
instead of an aircraft carrier a sub that carrys some amphibious vehicles and maybe some helicopters or ospreys. it would obviously have to be huge though

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when will these be a reality ?

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>>34904789
like this?

>>34905071
When the tailing edge of an airfoil starts being able to work as a leading edge, and not completely compromise performance in every way.

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>>34905095
or dis

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>>34905101
shit movie but that plane was sexy looking

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>>34904609
You're a good fuckin' guy you know that?

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Russians had some concepts but I don't think anything came of it

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Well since everyone has gone full retard.

>>34904206
>>34904247

It's funny that they're designing them to carry less missiles, but they're still bigger. Gotta make space for the women's bathrooms somehow.

>>34901976
rip ROTR
THE_HUNTER turbofag

>>34898383
real photoshop.

>>34905786
More space = more stowage = longer patrols.
Also, more space for crew recreational areas and such. And larger conformal WAA sonar, and a bigger processing computer for the sonar inputs, and so on and so on.
Hopefully we'll get new and better missiles though for fucks sakes, with decoying/evading warheads. Right now we don't have enough warheads to fill all the MIRVs on a single Vanguard SSBN. And the people in this cucked country was to scrap them altogether. Fuckwits.

>>34906166
You don't need nukes. Nukes are bad. Why would you arm Muslims with nukes?

>>34898596
Fucking made of 80/20... I love it!

>>34898602
Orbital ATK is a bigtime munitions mfg, they probably made some of the ammo components

>>34903819
Russians tried in 1990 with a Kilo class called Alrosa. It's still working tiday but a bitch for maintenance.

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>>34906181
gr8b8m8

>>34906225
That was the Lada right?
I just assumed it had a screw. Ty anon.

>>34898405
>>34898406
What's that thing hanging off on the right, a rangefinder?

>>34906349
I believe thays the scope itself. Becuase it sits in front of a red dot the lense has to be off to the side. Not sure if ita a camera or a mirror like a periscope though

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>>34906245
No, a Project 877 Kilo Class, the older non improved version.

>>34907623
that must be a bitch to sight-in and manually guess-correct for distance differences as it's offset in 2 axis

>>34903819

Borei SSBN's have pumpjets.

>>34903819

AFAIK pump-jets have a weight and drag penalty, and generally require more power to run. Which makes them impractical for SSK's

>>34898461
Reminds me of Warhammer40k assault torpedoes lol

>>34902244
Drones require constant communication and acoustics don't have the bandwith to support burst comms. Try to pack all that data into one burst and it'll garble it'self, the different frequencies interfering with each other.

Brief, but unusually loud noises would also resemble a sonar ping with would set the enemy on high alert for entirely different reasons.

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>>34905786
It's also got a smaller crew than the Vanguard Class. Being bigger doesn't just mean more guns and people, it means more and better tech in every part of the boat.

>>34904113
Doesn't make much sense as a spec ops delivery vehicle. Too noisy and way too much firepower. If a spec ops team needed that much gun then their mission is scrubbed anyway.

Makes a hell of a good patrol boat, though.

>>34898461
No that's just something someone made up, has no basis in reality

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>>34898448
LETS GO DALLAS

>be in tropics, surfaced.
"Hey captian, man overboard drill?"
" go ahead"
I gets to go swimming

> be in not tropic water, fuckin super icy cold
Captian " hey ensign remeber that man overboard drill? We should have another"

Water so cold i was the first MtF tranny in the navy

>>34908182
That makes sense.

>>34903579
It isn't a submarine, it's a submersible- a surface ship which can occasionally dive. With enough warning this renders it immune to AShMs and greatly complicated detection by radar.

>>34903819
>Pump-jet propulsors are more efficient per turn than naked screws or propellers, so the sub can operate at higher speeds with less rpm. It also helps reduce cavitation by disrupting formation of cavitation bubbles on the tip of the prop and lowering the needed speed of rotation (and thus pressure differential over the blades).
Got a sauce for that? Cause it sounds suspiciously bullshit.
>more efficient per turn
How? The reduction in tip losses is more than returned in the drag on the shroud.
>reduce cavitation...
It does that by raising the static pressure in the duct (thanks, bernoulli) thus raising the pressure differential required for cavitation, not bdisrupting bubble formation, which is to the best of my knowledge not an option-you can't just "disrupt" them just like you can't disrupt a running kettle from boiling.
One advantage you didn't mention is that the duct damps sideways noise propagation from the screw.

In effect, a pump-jet allows you to go faster without cavitating at any given depth, and reduces the amount of noise radiated outwards from the propulsor by absorbing some of it. You pay for this with a weight penalty (which is made worse by the fact that it's also unbalancing being at the rearmost end of the boat), complexity, and reduced rudder effectiveness (the shroud acts as a stabilizing vane).

>>34898239
good lord above that is sexy

>>34898239
>VHS
>Future

>>34902439
>Maximum buzzwords!

>>34898026
>>34898028
>>34898038
Isn't the navy(or other non-US navies) looking into a submarine drone-carrier? All the badassery of an aircraft carrier, but stealth. I doubt current military doctrine would call for it, but against a worthy adversary(china?) I could see it's use.

Railguns though, I can't wait to see that shit in working order.

>>34912355
sub-launched drone platforms like >>34898858 are in the works. However, they're probably be mostly useful only as sensor platforms, drones are / can be quite smol which is why they can be launched from a sub. Recovery is also an issue, but drones can be expendable. Pilots... less so.
However, the sub would have to stay at PD or have some kind of surface buoy for radio LOS that datalinked with the sub in order to communicate with the drones and they would need to be fairly autonomous.

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It's not technically in service yet, so it still counts :^)

>>34901976
Nope, it's the X-29

>>34912555
On one hand, very sexy.

On the other hand, ramp.

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>>34913317
She IS deisel, anon. It's just not economical to use a catapult on a non nuclear ship, at least in terms of our doctrine.

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>>34913348

The Kennedy and Kitty Hawk were both conventional powered supercarriers and only retired a few years ago.

>>34905104
>>34905394
Oooo, I like.
However, I can think of some improvements.

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>>34914468
>it's a "the QE2 is a supercarrier, despite having half the capabilities of a legit one and A FUCKING RAMP" episode

>>34898461

I read that originally as 66 SEALs per square foot. I'm a little disappointed, that would have been a very impressive density to achieve

>>34902114
the first thing that popped into my head was that it would be immune to ASM spam

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>>34915510
Which is a better counter to ASM spam?

>Blow ballast and sink your own frigate until they run out of ammo
>Surface and fire back

or

>Fill your ship to bursting with ECM and hardkill, stay in tight formations and defeat the missiles
>Close to gun range

I think both concepts have a real potential of existing in the future.

>>34915533
the real future is laser batteries. Think dozens on one ship