How could they have survived?

>>34882509
given Hitler Danzig

>>34882509
Giving Danzig to Hitler and joining the Axis in the 30s was their only shot at survival.

They had a decent military but no way could it have stood up to the Nazi war machine in 1939. Most of their army was infantry-based with very very few armored divisions. If the allies failed, then Poland had no chance in hell.

Don't piss off all your neighbors?
Don't fall for bullshit allied guarrentees of independence that the poles KNEW wouldn't be upheld
Meet face to face with Hitler who admired Poland/Polish government
Ally with them against the communists, since they are the only country in the world who will fight against communism.

>>34882581
>>34882525
They didn't need to "give Danzig" because Danzig was not theirs in the first place
It was a free city populated be Germans

However they DID threaten war over any change in the status of Danzig

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>>34882601
as in a Hungary,Romania? I fear the Average Pole just wanted that German land and the Native Germans either Dead or gone off of that land.

>>34882793
The 2 big powers, Germany & USSR
Hungary/Romania/Lithuania were not friends of Poland either

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>>34882601
>Meet face to face with Hitler who admired Poland/Polish government
yeah he admired them so much he just wanted to fragment them, destroy their culture, deny them education, kill the entirety of the intellectual upper class and take away children deemed intelligent from their parents so they'd never have a chance to organize and become powerful ever again, and turn the majority of them into a subservient slave race loyal to their german overlords

>>34882509
Poland did not had potential to challenge Germany of build it just in 20 years after WWI.

There were many interesting options though, like allying up with Czechoslovakia and France, and invading Germany soon after Hitler`s election.

Military wise, Polish doctrine was pretty outdated. Most shortcomings were in mechanized troops, fighters, logistics, communication and C&C on higher levels.

Equipment wasn`t stellar, but it was very ok. Problem was, that it was lacking in numbers, especially when it comes to anti-air and tanks.
Also, air fleet was small and outdated (besides bombers).

>>34882601
>Meet face to face with Hitler who admired Poland/Polish government
hello /pol/

Align with either USSR or Germans, yes both are landgrabbing, bloodthirsty motherfuckers but it would have been the only way

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>>34882509
>>34882525
>>34882581
>>34882601
>>34882692
>>34882793
>>34883013
>>34883160
>>34883527
>>34883564
>>34883618
>bully says I'll leave you alone if you give me a hundred bucks
Naziism was dependent on expansion (look at their overspending) and this is not justifiable therefore Naziism is not justifiable

>>34883626
This is more complex.
See, Danzing wasn`t great value to Poland. The whole deal was meant to be foundation of alliance or at least Polands neutrality in case of Allied-German war. Ribbentrop-Molotov was made only after Poland refuse to the idea.

>>34882509
Allied with the Czechs in 1938 and thrown an absolute international shitstorm over the Sudetenland instead of selling out to the Germans and looking the other way for a couple of shitty villages.

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>>34883694
>See, Danzing wasn`t great value to Poland.
Okay. I'll amend my statement.
>a bully says to a billionaire "I'll leave you alone if you give me a hundred bucks"
>somehow this is okay because that hundred dollars wasn't a great value to them
Nations aren't supposed to just give up territory because it isn't valuable you politically and historically illiterate retard. The whole point of forming a country is to exert more force upon the world, not be your neighbor's bitch. Bitch.

>>34883780
Jesus, what a cringe.
Winning and detterence wasn`t options because lack of power and potential.
And purpose of normal state is not dick measurement, but to protect it`s citizent, at which Poland failed completly.
Giving Danzig would mean at least first blow going to France, if not lack of destruction of Poland, which was the result of hopeless resistance and lack of alliance with Germany or USSR.

>>34882509
they were already dead

>>34883827
>>34883527
Germany wasnt going to stop when they took poland's access to the Baltic and Gdańsk, they would have then asked for Sląsk and then for more and more until they did what they did with Hungary. Furthermore Poland did not expect the backstab by the USSR France and Britain and Poland had a experienced and strong army that had pushes back the Red Army to Kiev just 20 years before.

>>34884055
It is uncertain that Germany actually would take more and more Polish lands, but it was well known in political circles that Poland stands no chance.

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>>34883780
More like
>The strongest, smartest kid at school gets bullied by 4 bullies and his lunch money gets given to the most junior bully after his shitty friend gets him in a group fight he only loses because a hook-nosed bully punched him in the back of the head and then called the biggest bully from another school to beat him while he's down
>While he's in the hospital, the youngest bully comes to his house and kills his dog
>He stands up for himself a week later and demands his money back
>Bully doesn't give it
>He kicks the bully's shit in and takes back what is rightfully his

>>34884140
Your life must be a misery.

>>34882509
The Nazis wouldn't have even invaded if anti-fascist groups weren't making a big deal out of things!

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>>34882509
As a Pole I do wish we didn't fight to begin with.
We chosen the wrong side and go fucked up big time. This is evident by us being sold off to the Soviets by our 'allies'. thanks Brits.
My great grandmother once told me, 'As the Germans would take in peoples children and fill them with chocolate, the Soviets would take them and starve them or even shoot them'.

I always get next-level hate from Poles for my opinion, but its true. They can't hide it. Ever since we were meshed with the commies we were nothing bug filth. Only now we're coming out of it.

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There is honestly nothing they could have done I don't think.
Let alone the abuse of ethnic Germans and claims on Danzig, Posen, and Upper Silesia, which in my eyes were enough for Germany to go to war with Poland, there are other factors involved.

1. Germany wanted living space to the East, Poland was obviously going to be a target
2. Hitler saw the existence of Poland as a physical state directly the result of the Treaty of Versailles, and thereby a blemish on the face of Europe and insult to the new Germany.
3. IMO the most important reason was to gain a direct border with the Soviet Union in order to prepare and conduct a preemptive strike before the Soviets could begin their planned expansion to the west and before the Soviets could build war materials and retrain new officers replacing those killed in the purges.

Hitler seriously believed that Britain and France would not go to war over Poland. When he was told that they declared war on him people said he went "white as a ghost." They called his bluff. He thought if he could just get one more deal out of them he could avoid war altogether with the west so that when the time came they could see what his plan really was, to invade and defeat the Soviet Union removing the main powerhouse of Jewish-Bolshevism forever.

I often wonder what would have happened had Germany been given a free hand to invade Poland. If possibly England would have sided with Germany to fight the Soviets, but I doubt it. Britain wanted to see a weak Germany that would not compete monetarily with it.

>>34884570
>If possibly England would have sided with Germany to fight the Soviets, but I doubt it. Britain wanted to see a weak Germany that would not compete monetarily with it.

The main problem with your assumption is that "England" saw the Soviets as a bigger threat that Germany.

The British Empire (not England) was the most powerful state in the world at the time. They had the strongest Navy and the strongest economy in the world.

The British Empire wasnt happy that Germany was back on it's feet again. They didnt want a strong rival on the mainland. They had carefully outplayed and betrayed countless growing powers over the centuries. They were Prussia's allies against Napoleon only to ally with France against the now stronger German Empire in WW1.

This had allowed the geographically isolated British isles to grow to the strongest nation in the world. Suddenly Nazi Germany is becoming stronger and stronger. The Germans start producing thousands of airplanes, tanks and all sorts of machines of war, while their economy grows and grows. One day Germany takes back Sudentenland. One day Germany and Austria unite. Then finally one day Poland is invaded and England and France jump at the chance to remove the German threat.

If you skip a few weeks, England could have easily signed a peace treaty. They would have kept their Empire and as you stated prepared for war against the Soviets.

But Churchill didnt want to. They were willing to sacrifice the British Empire to beat the Germans. They literally gave away their entire colonies, their naval bases (lend lease) and their entire sphere of power in Asia just to beat the Germans.

And what happened to Poland in the end?

A military alliance with Czechoslovakia and Lithuania rather than antagonizing them over a few tiny specks of territory would not have beaten the Germans but would probably have given them a very difficult time without Soviet interference.

>>34882509
do what i do in hoi2
invade spain

>>34884570
respect for actually knowing what you are talking about.

>>34884735
>England and France jump at the chance to remove the German threat.
>jump at the chance
weird choice of words when it looked like the brits were doing everything they could to avoid war.

>>34884570
well put anon!

>>34884570
>>34884735
>hitler a good boy!

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>>34885120
Ah, yes.

>stalin dindu nuffin!

>>34885200
>even implying that

By the way, Jews that joined communists did not wanted to be Jews anymore. Russian Jews ethicity was destroyed completly, synagouges were destroyed and desacrated by "Jews" etc.

But /pol/tard will still mumble about muh conspiracies

>>34884826
>weird choice of words when it looked like the brits were doing everything they could to avoid war.

Thats not true. Hitler offered various peace deals during the Phoney war and they were all rejected. They wanted war.

>>34882581
> Most of their army was infantry-based with very very few armored divisions.

...which also applies to German Army in 1939.

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>>34884570
>

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>>34883160
Hitler was an Austrian, not a Prussian. He did not care about the polish-prussian rivalry. Nazi genocide of the Poles is but a Communist projection (Katyn)
>>34883626
You know jack shit about Nazi economics. The overspending meme is simply not true because the Nazi banking system did not operate a gold currency, nor an empty fiat currency. Reichsmarks were backed by work. For every mark printed by the government, a german worker would have produced a marks worth of goods. Intrest was strictly forbiiden. Schacht was capable of jewing the jews for half a million reichsmarks for rearmament
>>34884570
A polish state also was the result of brest-litovsk, so hitler had no problem with them.
>>34885408
Communism is as jewish as you can get. Stalin tried to remove the jews, but he failed.

A few things /k/ needs to know before commenting any further on WW2:

Lebensraum: the policy of ensuring food and resources for the german people. Where western europe had enormous colonial empires, Hitler found it strategically far too difficult to build a navy and to establish a colonial empire (and protect that empire). In his opinion, Germany was a land-based power.

The English: Hitler admired them, and wanted them as allies. In his opinion, only a strong continental ally could ensure Britains ruling of the waves.

Gesammstdeutschland: You may know the kleindeutsche Losung, and the Grossdeutsche Losung, but the gesammstdeutsche losung may be unknown to you. It essentially means: Allgermanland, which meant that all germans should live in germany. Even then, it was small in respect to the ostsiedlung diaspora (look up a map of pre-ww1 german regions in europe)

Nazis are
>left wing
>right wing
No, they are something called third position. This means that they incorporate both leftwing ideas (a more communal society) and rightwing ideas (freedom for the small entrepreneur)