Hardkill Active Protection System

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>>34878202
I mean, why can't the self-declared god's own country produce a working APS hardkill system to mount on tanks.

In sure random little European states can produce one as well.

Cause the Abrams doesn't need it

>>34878202
what the hell am I looking at, is that APS projectile exploding and devlivering shrapnel to the front?
or why is the incoming projectile just exploding

>>34878249
This actually wouldn't do shit against most prohectiles

>>34878259
thats why I am curious what the hell is happening, it looks more like the incoming projectile is exploding on its own without outside effect

>>34878249
Because tungsten shrapnel shredding an incoming ATGM will end it quickly.

>>34878249
Think of a shotgun shell, just that it explodes a few meters before it's target.

All you see is the explosion of the shell, but the clouds of shot are too small to see.

>>34878202
America just can't.

America also can't into tank guns (buy from the Brits and then from Germany).

Their researchers are all foreigners.

Americans are actually extremely incompetent.

>>34878202
>GL-5 APS.webm
How to eliminate friendly infantry support.

>>34878211
Looks very similiar to Iron Fist.

>>34878428
Fucking jews.

>>34878405
>exposed infantry operate within 50m of a tank, that might have to make sudden evasive manoeuvres or swing a huge arm 180° in an unpredictable manner
> except in extreme circumstances
>aps is more dangerous than standing next to a tank as it gets hit by a ATGM

>>34878202
Russia has APS capable to intercept APFSDS
how can anyone compete?

>>34878300
>2017
>thinking the M68 and L7 are the same thing

Here's your reply for your shit tier bait.

>>34878436
>exposed infantry operate within 50m of a tank
Yes.
>that might have to make sudden evasive manoeuvres
From what, exactly? If infantry support is withing 50 metres, the tank is not in a situation to make those rapid maneuvres. On a forest road, built up area, etc.
>or swing a huge arm 180° in an unpredictable manner
Above everyone's heads, assuming they're for some reason right next to the tank.
>aps is more dangerous than standing next to a tank as it gets hit by a ATGM
Yes, absolutely. Being close to this APS is by far more dangerous to surrounding infantrymen than being close to a modern MBT being hit by an ATGM or rockets. Hell, this thing makes even a M72 LAW rocket dangerous.

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>>34878300
Wow!

You think we don't see through your pathetic .50cent posting?

>>34878460
prove me wrong.

>>34878472
You made the initial claim, you provide proofs.

>>34878202
The USMC has expressed interest in purchasing APS from BAE


Its not that HURR DURR THEY CANT

Its "Why should we buy it"

>>34879103
At least get your facts straight.

>>34879103
Marines really love to find new ways to waste money

>>34878202
Why bother? Israil usrs tanks on daily basis. They need it. Russians sell (new) tanks more than anyone on planet. They build a commercial product and don't use it for themselves for now. China is China. US doesn't use tanks and US doesn't sell tanks in significant number.

>>34879144
What money? The Marines only have money for the last month of the FY as we blow it all to keep our pittance from the Navy for next year

>>34879142
what about that is wrong?

Several western companies have APS offerings, its all about who should we buy it from and why.

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>>34879144
should I list all the retarded shit the Army wastes money on?

>>34878202
The US is just waiting for a threat to justify the cost: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAaw3S56nhc

>>34879210
Trophy isn't made by BAE.

>Quick Kill
>Iron Curtain
>codeveloped Iron Fist

>>34878242
Unironically this.
>>34878268
It's obviously a heat round and not a sabot of whatever variety.

Whatever happened to the American Hardkill system, is it one of those things stuck in congress waiting for an American MIC to get a somewhat decently priced spec'd version out? Wouldn't surprise me if they holding off on such a decision to incorporate it into any M1A3 upgrade.

>>34879260
From what I was reading awhile back, the DOD has been holding off on APS until it matures. There was that quickill developed by raytheon awhile back, but the army decided (their) tanks werent in such dire need of APS that they should adopt a technology before it's been perfected. I think they have an excellent point

>>34879260
Quick Kill has gone in limbo ever since the FCS was cancelled, Iron Curtain is likely to be used on Strykers.

>>34879497
This

>>34879517
Raytheon is expecting an APS gold rush soon, and is working on QK 2.0.

What the US wants is an 360 degree APS that fits on everything from an JLTV to a MBT. Hell, that you can stick on HESCO walls. Quick kill can do this now, they just want maturity.

>>34879497

This, APS systems are rapidly improving year on year, and the US Army is taking an active interest in the technology. We still don't know what the optimum APS setup is, and what counters will be developed (for example different attack profiles or EW jamming) If the USA does become involved in a conflict where it will likely encounter heavy ATGM usage before it is ready, it can procure a limited number of an off-the-shelf solution to fit the AFVs it deploys (for example, Trophy).

>>34878428
Diehl cooperated with IMI to develop the AVePS/Iron Fist system under the MAPS program.

>>34878300
If americans are incompetent that only means all other countries in the world are even more so.

>>34879040
America has no hardkill APS. Prove me wrong.

>tfw warfare will become "fire cheap and dumb missiles until their hardkill APS runs out"
lame

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>>34878202
Correction: Israel has it. End of list, for now.
Russia has one only as good as the American one- which is still tba. And there's nothing worth saying about China.

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>>34878202

>>34878242
Saudi Arabia and Iraq disagree with you

>>34881343
Those are export tanks without DU.

>>34880856
Tanks! Build more tanks!

>>34881464
there's no DU at the sides.

>>34881749
That's unknown for current variants.

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Why cant america

>>34879260
They realized it didn't work enough better than the softkill system they already have considering nobody's gonna be shooting APFSDS at our tanks any time soon and softkill works just fine against ATGM's.

You deal with ATGM's by killing the infantry/light vehicles carrying em

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>>34878202
>not using directed energy

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Imagine the ZTZ-99A with APS... It would have 3 lines of defence: Active Laser dazzler, automatic responsive smoke release, and hardkill APS.
Now, if it also gets that Shtora knock-off, it would get 4 defences against all sorts of threats.

http://defence-blog.com/army/china-unveils-gl5-active-protection-system-for-main-battle-tanks.html

>China unveils GL5 active protection system for main battle tanks

>The China North Industries Group Corporation (NORINCO Group) has shown for the first time its new GL5 active protection system (APS) designed for main battle tanks during the show in Baotou in the Inner Mongolia autonomous region on Wednesday morning.

>According to the NORINCO, the new GL5 APS can provide Chinese armour more reliable protection against the threat for the tanks on the battlefields, including light anti-tank weapons, anti-tank guided missiles (ATGM). The system providing full 360 degree hemispherical vehicle protection.

>The GL5 APS uses a special radar to detect incoming warheads. Upon detection, a defensive rocket is fired that detonates near the inbound threat, destroying it before it hits the tank or vehicle.

>The Norinco’s APS system consists of a multi-mission, fire-control radar that detects and tracks incoming threats and launcher for defensive rockets.

>Experts said that the new GL5 active protection system will be installed on the new ZTZ-99 main battle tanks.

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>>34883285
And if it also wears this specially designed camo-net that suppresses laser-reflections, it will also gain a passive defense against semi-active laser guided missiles like the Hellfire.

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>>34878437
By dropping cluster bombs or GBUs on those Russian tanks.

>>34883341
implying someone would let you drop bombs in the first place
fucking american retards lol

>>34883355
How do you expect to counter that?

>>34883555
By having the most sophisticated and capable anti-aircraft weapons system.

>>34878437

No it doesn't.

>>34883285
>>34883302

Looks like future combat will end up like:
>>34880481

>>34883341

Th-those are flares, sir

>>34879147
Muh monkey models...

>>34883623

Which is why the USA and its allies are deploying; low observable strike aircraft, with advanced SEAD, firing stand off weapons with dual mode seekers.

>>34878202
shoot 2 missiles at it as is the norm with the recoilless guns.

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>>34883302
>catches your net on fire

Nothing personelle kiddo

>>34884032
Is that a toilet bowl?

>>34884085
Yep. A toilet bowl that shoots lasers.

>>34878202
We don't like frying/fragging our own troops.

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>>34878437
Proofs?

>>34884085
What kind of shithole do you live in that has fucked up toilet bowls like that?

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>>34878202
America wasted its a decade of budgets fighting pointless wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Now the technological edge that the US has had since the fall of the USSR is starting to degrade. The solution is new procurement programs but the problem is everything needs replacing at the same time due to a lack of investment. So now we need new bombers, new fighters, new IBCMs, new ALCMs, new carriers, new SSBNs, new SSNs, new surface combatants and a dozen other high priced items at the same time. This dries up funding and there is nothing left for systems such as APS when Abrams has been mostly satisfactory up to this point.

>>34883623
see >>34883771
Also, a IADS has never prevented an aerial force from dominating the skies.

>>34884143
Our failing R&D programs have cost us a pretty penny (a hefty fraction of the cost of the WoT).

Before we reinvest in R&D we need to purge a good deal of the people there that continue to put out/discard hundreds of billions of dollars worth of projects, with very little to show.

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>>34878300

>>34878202
I-Instead we have the LCS!

>>34884143
>>34884191
Sure we have spent a lot of money but the rapid change in technology over the last 30 years means that large weapon systems that changed very little during the course of the Cold War or the invention of the weapon have to be radically alter to keep up with modern counters to these weapons. Unlike China and Russia, America has had to advance weapons systems continuously in 25ish years since the end of the Cold War. This has lead to a lot of costs and fuck ups but the technology has been pioneered and the first costs have been paid by the US or US allies. Russia and China have only developed an economy that supports "rapid" modernization of armed forces in the last 10 years after all the difficult research was completed by US or NATO aligned countries.

>>34884151
>see the post that just replied to your post
Nigga you dumb.

>>34884303
This. Furthermore not all of that R&D is lost.

The US MIC has made constant correct decisions during the cold war, large high profile tanks, heavy armor IFV (comparatively), the move to GPS precision munitions, and smart bombs in general, subsonic cruise missiles vs supersonic, brigade combat, battlefield networking, stealth, I can go on and on. Everything the US MIC gambled on has paid off, and the eastern world is just now (last decade) catching up and revamping their equipment.

The real question is what does the US have in the stables? What has skunkworks and other works been doing for the last 20 fucking years? People assuming the US has been stagnate, but I would argue that lack of evidence is not evidence of the lack. Every now and again we get a modern look into what secret squirrel stuff the US is dipping its dick into, and it's always impressive.
(OBL raid, secretly modified Blackhawks penetrating an IADN next to one of the host countries largest airbase without them knowing).

In short, rapid modernizing to near peer level is great, but what does the US DOD have rapidly modernize themselves?

>>34884463
>US MIC gambled on has paid off
I would disagree with this. There as been a lot of half assed shit since 2001. FCS, AAV replacement, and LSC. Basically anything modular Trying to make things that can both do high intensity state actor wars and low intensity wars against non-state actors. While a lot of countries design stuff for wars they will never fight the US designs stuff for wars they have just got done fighting.

>>34880481
In a future where this happens, taking out a tank requires the amount of saturation as taking out an Aegis cruiser.

>tfw that Short Peace anime made sense

>>34884709
>FCS, AAV replacement, and LSC.
All of those procurement and R&D programs that did not go anywhere. That is a good thing. The US is willing to spend money on concepts, and if they don't pan out, drop em. It's better that then actually bringing something into service that's half assed or not really viable. China is just starting to grow out of that bullshit, but after the j-20, maybe not.

Every successful procurement and R&D investment has been a good choice.

>>34884865
>It's better that then actually bringing something into service that's half assed or not really viable

To add to this, it's not just China that did this, Russia did it to before they became dirt poor.

I mean.... Fuck.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-72_operators_and_variants

>>34884463
>The real question is what does the US have in the stables?

let's see:
Zumwalt (just plain shit)
F-22, F-35 (outmatched by competition like J-20, J-31 albeit last moverr advantage).
Arleigh Burke (outmatched by 054A, 052C/D, 055).
OBL stealth helicopter #FakeNews (think about it, a Blackhawk cannot practically winch out another Blackhawk).

>but I would argue that lack of evidence is not evidence of the lack.
concedes America has nothing to show

>>34885014
We are talking about 4th offset, snap upgrades/modernization. Much like what China did. But being that you called the OBL helicopter fake news, because you think something happened that didn't, and because you think Blackhawks picked up the seals on the return trip, means you have no interest in factual engagement. How can you be so wrong?

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>>34885014
>J-20
>J-31
>Outmatching the F-35
SHOO SHOO STINKY CHINKY

>>34885014
>shit, outmatched, outmatched, fake -because i said so
Lovely arguments you have there.

Neither Russia nor China are currently fielding hard-kill APS.
There are many countries with hard-kill in the pipeline, but only the Israelis have it in service.

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>>34885070
breh, where do you think the fucking wrecked """stealth""" copter carcass disappeared to?

>>34885262
Who knows, Pakistan grabbed it, it got blown up, or the Chinooks that picked up the seals got it.

Your entire premise is logical.

>>34885314
Illogical*

>>34881343
Saudi Arabia and Iraq could have iron man suits and it wouldn't matter because they're retards

>>34884328
How?

>>34885314
The story line is it got blown up.
That's not how explosives work. There will be all kinds of debris left over, big pieces in the case of a metal airframe.
And a Chinook to compromise all your other stealth efforts?

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>>34881464
>>34885353
Truuu

>>34880361
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgWywHPVzMg

And this was a decade ago.

>>34885546
Chinooks were exfil only, they figured response time was to low so they could get in and out. Yes it was a risk.

>explosives can't obliterate things
(You)

>>34878202
What's the one military thing all those countries have in common? Nukes

What does the armament of nations without nukes look like? Tanks are for fighting sand people now, a fight with any modern military force is nuclear war

>>34885523
See >>34884328

>>34878242
TACOM is begging for that shit, but Trump is MAGAing too hard so the deep state bolsheviks are going to roll a CR into a government shutdown.

>>34885647
>army is procuring Trophy for Abrams tanks
>REEEEEEEEE FUCK TRUMP

I love shills too.

>>34885583
Kinda over-engineered don't you think
Why would you want it to be verticle launched?
Not like your tank gonna work like an Ageis anyway.

>>34885621
Are you implying that an IADS can stop an aerial campaign? Cause that's never worked.

BTW I posted here >>34883555
then he posted >>34883623
to which I posted >>34884151
also I want to say >>34883771 has the right idea too

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>>34885723
No, I'm implying that you're a retard who thinks someone can't see the first post that's replying to their own fucking post.

>>34885848
um, ok....would you like to comment on IADS then?

>>34885603
Regardless of OBL, this so called stealth helicopter has never been seen.
Not exactly useful if you never use it..ORRR...it's fakenews

>explosives can't obliterate things
no need to embarrass yourself

>>34885719
munitions that attack the top of a vehicle, like a javelin

>>34886273
>this so called stealth helicopter has never been seen.
They're called classified for a reason, anon.

>>34886273
>A top secret airframe has not been seen by joe blow

DUDE. REALLY?

>>34878202
dont need it, us tank is invincible.

>>34880620
lol holy shit, just strap a claymore onto your tanks

I thought those devices rotated toward the incoming ordinance before firing but that is just a wide arc of metal balls death.

Don't stand near where those are pointed.

>>34886343
>>34886371

>classified
>top secret

Only flys at night?
Every associate has top secret clearance? (soldier, mechanic, technician, engineer, welder, painter...janitor on base/factory)
Never suffers Murphy's law? Oh, sorry, it did crash...ONCE.

How about it don't exist.

>>34886552
>I thought those devices rotated toward the incoming ordinance

They do.

>>34886273
By your logic, the F-117 didn't exist until 1991.

>>34886573
>Only flys at night?
Yes.
>Every associate has top secret clearance?
It's probable, even the guys who fly the planes there have to sign NDAs.
>Never suffers Murphy's law? Oh, sorry, it did crash...ONCE.
Yes, it did.
>How about it don't exist.
So the US military brought a bunch of pieces of a fake helicopter to a raid and left them there? This is how you sound right now.

Honestly, why do you think it doesn't exist?

The best APS is still nukes.

What APS can stop GBUs? Nukes
What APS can stop sabot rounds? Nukes
What APS can stop RPGs? Nukes.

You're going to bomb a Chinese tank in the middle of India? You're gonna get nuked.

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>>34886704
(You)

>>34886784
So you can't make an argument? Or even comment on your position then?

>>34886794

(You)
>everybody related to the helicopter has "probable" top secret clearance down to the plebe tasked with cleaning and polishing.

>F-117, F-22 each has crashed a number of times, while being far better funded projects. A Blackhawk derivative crashes only ONCE.

Makes your contention retarded doesn't it?

>>34887089
So your statement is that you cannot possibly keep an aircraft top secret and off of the media for an extended period of time?

>>34887089
>>everybody related to the helicopter has "probable" top secret clearance down to the plebe tasked with cleaning and polishing.
No, why would the janitor know about it? These projects are need to know for a reason. for example, the cleaning lady who works at the Pentagon has a TS clearance but she isn't clued in to any of the proceedings.
>Video very much related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hZDf1TL-q4

>>F-117, F-22 each has crashed a number of times, while being far better funded projects. A Blackhawk derivative crashes only ONCE.
Do you have sources on how well funded they are, anon. A stealth Blackhawk would be significantly easier to design than a completely new generation of fighter aircraft.
>Makes your contention retarded doesn't it?
No it makes sense, as it's a classified project and the public knows little about it.

>>34887229

The Pentagon was compelled to divulge a night flying F-117, but not a low flying, noisy night flying Blackhawk?

>A stealth Blackhawk would be significantly easier to design than a completely new generation of fighter aircraft.

The RAH-66 Comanche was plastered all over popular media, a far better funded, far more advanced, far more secretive project.
You contend "significantly easier to design" stealth Blackhawk would be "top secret"?

The Blackhawk itself crashes on a regular basis. Adding stealth features dramatically increase safety?

Yeah, you retard.

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>>34887089
>>34886704
>>34886573

They did blow it up and there was debris. How do you guys not remember this? it was all over the news.

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>>34887370

also, replying to my own post, i know for a fact all the mechanics and support personnel at the 160th SOAR do have Top Secret clearances. I worked around them for a little while.

>>34887357
>The RAH-66 Comanche was plastered all over popular media
>far more secretive project.

Pick one, brainlet. Also, you fucking moron, you are stating its impossible to keep an operational aircraft secret for extended periods of time?

>>34887442
>you are stating its impossible to keep an operational aircraft secret for extended periods of time?

Now you're gettin it.

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>>34887529

I think it would be easy to keep such an aircraft secret, just by using it in very limited circumstances... for most missions, JSOC units are using their regular M-series chinooks and blackhawks, plus ospreys when they need more range or speed.

>>34887529
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_F-117_Nighthawk

Half a fucking decade of missions before it was disclosed.

Sit down brainlet, and shut up.

>>34878437
No they have ERA which can stop APFSDS. On its own

>>34880620
You are sort of wrong. "Drozd" APS (predecessor for "Arena" and the APS used on T-14) was fielded in 80`s. So Russia had APS deployed for 36 years straight allready. Not in large numbers, but the system was in service. And right now T-14 have integrated APS as a standard issue.

>>34883355
There is still no "Durrrrrr, Brrrrttttttt A-10!" in this tread. Retardation level isn`t maxed as of yet.

>>34883789
APS use multiple charges. So, you have to shoot like 3-4 warheads from exact side, and hope that the tanker is a retard and won`t turn the turret to place fresh charges under fire. APS isn`t an Aegis shield, but pretty close to that.

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>>34887931
fuck. Forgot pic. Yes, that`s T-55, outfitted with "Drozd" hardkill APS.

>>34887370
That's not real

>>34887357
>The Pentagon was compelled to divulge a night flying F-117, but not a low flying, noisy night flying Blackhawk?
Yes.
>a far better funded, far more advanced, far more secretive project.
Evidently not, if it never made it out of the prototype stage. Also, it was never a secret, the military had for year wanted a new light attack/scout helicopter. The inner workings and avionics and production of them might have been classified, but the project itself never was.
>You contend "significantly easier to design" stealth Blackhawk would be "top secret"?
Yes, because if one hadn't crashed, we might still not know about it.
I'll repeat my question: Do you really think the US military would haul a tail section of a fake helicopter to OBL's compound in order to fake everybody out?

>>34878211
>In sure random little European states can produce one as well.

Yep, even Sweden has demonstrated one.

>>34878456
You do realize most ATGMs has a few kilos of high explosives in them do you?

>>34885603
That idiot thinks they need stealth to disembark from their mission? They already killed the guy they were using stealth to sneak up on. Why the hell would they need to sneak out?

>>34887089
Hmm we have sensitive materials. Who can we have to work around it so it doesn't get out?
How about the people that worked on it in the first place? The people that were chosen who are either close to higher ranks that set this shot up?
Do you not know what vetting is?
Your logic dictates that the government has no secrets because by the time a secret is formulated and executed it is no longer secret.
Someone blabbed about our super secret chopper? What is opsec?

You lost your internet argument. Just let it go and think about shit logically next time.

>>34885326
Chink into English now?