Chinese Next Gen Heavy IFV

File: 133225n505nzotzh5ghax7.jpg (74KB, 640x853px) Image search: [Google]

74KB, 640x853px

The telescoped ammo has been presented in last year's Zhuhai Airshow.

>>34868330
Chink shit is shit.

File: 133222ctw8clawwwayeyol.jpg (459KB, 2048x1365px) Image search: [Google]

459KB, 2048x1365px

>>34868337
The 8x8 export variant of this new IFV would use it.

File: CSAA5 assault gun 4.jpg (1MB, 2000x1328px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2000x1328px

>>34868339
Closer look on the telescoped ammo:

1. APFSDS

2. AHEAD computerized airburst (you can see the tungsten pieces inside)

3. normal slug

Interesting to see them moving away from their classic IFV aesthetics and layout.
>Aussie sheep leather seats
N O I C E

File: 103133qhbc99k8kfob7izw.jpg (122KB, 1440x887px) Image search: [Google]

122KB, 1440x887px

>>34868346
The "mid-range anti-tank missile" is probably the SABRE-ER ATGM.

A SPIKE-styled missile.

File: DFVXxQJUMAAhlMM.jpg (216KB, 1200x900px) Image search: [Google]

216KB, 1200x900px

>>34868362
As used by the PLA already in a jeep carrier.

File: 101956yzpepj5zkehij5je.jpg (48KB, 600x451px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 600x451px

>>34868364

File: 102057dn777uu621u8uz6y.jpg (40KB, 600x437px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 600x437px

>>34868361
>Aussie sheep leather seats

I really dont know why they stated this as a feature...

>>34868367
More SABRE-ER

File: 102107pah24bj87a5b258w.jpg (51KB, 600x469px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 600x469px

>>34868370
Helo and man-pack

File: 101915jiuvu7rerociir6c.jpg (25KB, 600x426px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 600x426px

>>34868373

>>34868370
Luxuries are features. Same way Brits brag about their built-in kettle on the Challenger.

File: DCBF_HgUAAAvNkS.jpg (112KB, 889x1200px) Image search: [Google]

112KB, 889x1200px

They say it is based on the same new Type 15 light tank chassis as the one serving in Tibet these days.

File: DHQ2KMzV0AMGXII.jpg (102KB, 1000x555px) Image search: [Google]

102KB, 1000x555px

>>34868390
The export version, the VT-5, is also related with it.

>>34868330
looks like a stolen copy of the bongs 40mm telescoping prototype warrior replacement but on armata style fuck hueg hull

File: 1461199704501.jpg (2MB, 968x7648px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 968x7648px

The chinks do it again.

File: DHQv4n6UQAAO4ND.jpg (115KB, 1200x676px) Image search: [Google]

115KB, 1200x676px

the NORINCO armor day planned for tomorrow will include the following exhibits:

1. New IFV (tank-based, with unmanned turret), OP pic

2. New tank (certainly a major reveal if true)

3. A ZTZ-59-based "heavy IFV"

4. A Type 89 APC based wheeled assault/transport vehicle

>>34868401
that image needs a fresh update, all the artifacts make it a pain to read

File: 185543ub0jb2qwiys3b2dd.jpg (41KB, 1017x542px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 1017x542px

>>34868401
The last rows do not look like copies at all.

More like innovative design.

>dat delicious box-wing UAV

File: 163747hmgug9l66of068ks.jpg (433KB, 2000x1428px) Image search: [Google]

433KB, 2000x1428px

>>34868418

File: 163749flh119mry5nn9yy9.jpg (287KB, 2000x1428px) Image search: [Google]

287KB, 2000x1428px

>>34868423

File: 27_130982_6468c0015d84136.jpg (257KB, 925x452px) Image search: [Google]

257KB, 925x452px

>>34868428

>>34868330
Where will this IFV fit in the PLA TOE? I read that PLA will transition some of it formation to brigade from division.

>>34868364
looks similar
i know this can be explained as pure coincidence driven by a limited number of solution to the same problem, but still, it's the chinese we're talking about

File: PARAD_PROEZD_MSK_150509_005.jpg (465KB, 1205x1133px) Image search: [Google]

465KB, 1205x1133px

>>34868364
>>34868448
forgot pic

>>34868330
It's a export production obviously,PLA wound not mount it.
Remember,the weapon that PLA mount itself always have old-fashioned appearance,no sci-fi style.(except J-20)

File: new combined arms brigades.jpg (44KB, 320x366px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 320x366px

>>34868447
Brigadization just means that Regiments will be made into baby-divisions in terms of support weapons and maneuver battalions.

They now organically have the AA and AT systems, as well as artillery weapons previously subordinate to the Division or even higher up, the Combined Corps.

Pic is the model of the new combined arms brigades.

File: AFT-10 NLOS Missile 2.jpg (478KB, 2048x1634px) Image search: [Google]

478KB, 2048x1634px

>>34868452
Yeah, except the Chinese actually have F&F top-attack NLOS ATGMs while the Russians still use old shitty LOS-only, direct attack SACLOS or laser-beam-riding missiles.

The Russians have yet to demonstrate even a single Fiber Optic guided, Spike-NLOS styled ATGM.

File: C5MfavZXUAE8LV3.jpg (65KB, 921x606px) Image search: [Google]

65KB, 921x606px

>>34868460
Indeed there is the prospect that this might be export only.

Though the prospective actual future IFV also looks quite sci-fi.

Unmanned turret and AR/VR-googles for the gunner is more or less confirmed in all leaked papers.

>>34868401
LMAO
J-20 is totally different with F-22
did F-22 has canard and delta wing??
some in this pic just is russian export plane

File: 534534.jpg (149KB, 600x391px) Image search: [Google]

149KB, 600x391px

>>34868471
>F&F top-attack NLOS ATGMs
Doesn't work against peer enemy. ECM rapes them.

File: USA vs China military equipment v1.1.jpg (2MB, 1592x6034px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1592x6034px

>>34868503
It's a troll picture.

I still have the original, which was actually meant to show that Chinese and American/Western designs are completely different.

USA stuff: Blocky, doughy utilitarian and old-fashioned look

Chinese stuff: Sleek, dark, elegant and dangerous looking

>>34868516
Yeah I know.

But the Japs, Taiwanese and Worst Koreans arent peer opponents to either China.

>>34868462
That is a huge brigade. Russian briagde with 41 tanks, 90 IFV, 36 tube arty, and 18 122mm mlrs already have 5000 personel. PLA brigade looks larger, how many soldier does it have?

File: 112th mech inf div.png (83KB, 1500x1000px) Image search: [Google]

83KB, 1500x1000px

>>34868535
Previous PLA divisions were also kinda huge.

I dont know about brigades, but the previous divisions were around 15,000 men all around.

How fast would streetshitinda lose in a war against our friendly "cheap electronics and other good good stuff on aliexpress" China? Im guessing india would fail as a "country" in the first 3 months

>>34868524
I always expect J-20 appear in Macross(of course,it should be villain‘s mech).
looks military plane still have copyright lol

>>34868401
The fuck is this picture? Most of them are pretty convincingly different desu

>>34868549
Transformation to brigade is a part of reducing PLA from 2.3M to 2M right? But until now I don't hear any news about that reduction again since it was announce.

>>34868330
>someone jams the signal.
this is not a very good design.

File: 1416733936_02-rae-2013-atom_1.jpg (110KB, 1280x819px) Image search: [Google]

110KB, 1280x819px

>>34868339
>mfw russians sold unsuccessful Atom to chinks

>>34868590
They don't look similar.

>>34868582
Why the fuck do you think the turret is radio controlled?

>>34868582
Dumb retard

>>34868364
>>34868367
Is this a chinked version of the gaz tigr?

>>34868330
Where does it claim this is a HIFV?

>>34868590
that turret looks like fucking shit

>>34868516
Shtora is ineffective against non Russian missiles.

>>34869007
It might be effective against ITOWs based on Syrian experience. But against anything which isn't SACLOS it's not going to be very effective.

>>34868401
>assblasted burger going out of his way to add his trash even though there is literally no correlation between the chinese and burger model

File: PLANM USMC.jpg (50KB, 500x322px) Image search: [Google]

50KB, 500x322px

>>34868330
>手自动一体变速器
>manual transmission (?)

yeah, thats the correct translation.

>涡轮增压电混合动力
>hybrid enginge (turbo-electric)

I believe "增压" is more like "supercharged" in the sense of being pressurized (thus the 压), so I'd guess something like "supercharged electro-turbine hybrid engine".

Good translation though... what's your background, Anon?

>>34868401
if it ain't broke, why fix it
if you can copy it for free, why pay to import it

>>34868524
Speaking of troll pictures, nice CGI of a Chinese drone.

>>34868330
Interesting idea, assuming it's real (and not just Chinese propaganda) I'd be slightly worried that it is too innovative-trying to develop from the ground up all these capabilities at once is a risky approach.

>>34868448
Vehicle is a localized variant of Russian gaz tgr

>>34868462
I have the same question that I did for OP...who are you? What kind of background do you have? You don't need to be too specific, just your field, ie military, academia, etc.

Super rare to see other china mil studies people on here.

>>34869167
How is it too innovative?

>>34868418
>>34869044

>gonna defend my glorious 50 cent overlords

File: wow.png (9KB, 1248x565px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 1248x565px

>>34868423
>Flying thing
>They called it "Dragon"
Color me surprised. It's a nice change from "Tiger", and "Celestial Power of the Righteous Carp".

>>34869206
>case telescoped ammo
>unmanned turret
>hybrid drivetrain
>augmented reality display
>APS
All are to the best of my knowledge untested equipment with which the Chinese have little experience. Putting all of them in one new vehicle increases the risk that it'll be a failure.
What most countries do is test the new systems one at a time on existing vehicles. For example the British/French 40mm CT was tested on a Warrior IFV, with proven turret and drivetrain components; and the Ajax SV has a fairly conventional layout except for the turret.
The Soviets deployed their experimental APS systems on proven tanks, as do the Israelis; now that Trophy is proven they plan to integrate it into future vehicles.

>>34869089
Thanks.

Let's /k/'s PLA-watching community live on again

>>34868580
reduction was rather the non-combat troops.

The PLA forces werent reduced number wise.

File: APS testing.jpg (58KB, 193x1198px) Image search: [Google]

58KB, 193x1198px

>>34869368
Looks like at the Norinco Arms Day tomorrow, they will do a live APS demonstration.

Would be quite interesting.

>>34869808
specifically Point 5. of the programme.

>>34868338
>Australian sheep leather seats
when will this chinkshit meme die
it's not 2002 anymore, wake the fuck up

>>34868401
>ZTZ-99 / Abrams comparison
>local vehicles made with a licence
Was this made by a brainlet?

File: Ground Vehicles.jpg (1MB, 2050x2692px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2050x2692px

Current PLA vehicles in active service

They have a shitton of prototypes/export concepts that never see the light of day or get shipped off to some African shithole

File: Artillery.jpg (821KB, 2050x1582px) Image search: [Google]

821KB, 2050x1582px

>>34869973
And Artillery

File: em.png (92KB, 500x352px) Image search: [Google]

92KB, 500x352px

>>34868330
>【中国的新一代步兵战车】无人遥控炮塔,猎歼双火控,AR头盔全景显示界面,35毫米埋头弹自动炮,中距反坦克导弹。澳洲羊羔皮座椅,手自动一体变速器,全电驱动,涡轮增压电混合动力,主动反导防御系统。

?

Has China closed the innovation gap between them and the western powers?

>>34870006
The gap still exist mainly on radar and airplane engine. On other stuff they catching uo quickly.

>>34869973
>>34869981
Good charts.

>>34870063
Make it engine.

Radar wise, they are up there already.

File: 35736676094_520e215ef1_h.jpg (124KB, 1600x645px) Image search: [Google]

124KB, 1600x645px

>>34868524
The J-10B is so sexy.

>>34869973
>>34869981
Looks like a logistical nightmare DESU.

File: Small Arms.jpg (1MB, 2050x3020px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2050x3020px

>>34870165
I got a lot more

>>34870199
Not more than the 80s US where M60 and first series M1s served together.

Roughtly two-tiers of tanks and APCs.

File: Fixed Wing.jpg (2MB, 2050x3434px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2050x3434px

>>34870244

File: Rotary.jpg (481KB, 2050x1696px) Image search: [Google]

481KB, 2050x1696px

>>34870258

File: Drones.jpg (657KB, 2500x2269px) Image search: [Google]

657KB, 2500x2269px

>>34870263

File: 36433431551_31e2db7b36_h.jpg (114KB, 1600x647px) Image search: [Google]

114KB, 1600x647px

>>34870258
slightly dated for the J-10, which already has about 400 pieces, including about 150 J-10B/C.

File: Air Defense.jpg (304KB, 1827x591px) Image search: [Google]

304KB, 1827x591px

>>34870270

File: Surface Combatants.jpg (2MB, 2500x3836px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2500x3836px

>>34870281

File: Submarines.jpg (531KB, 1608x1728px) Image search: [Google]

531KB, 1608x1728px

>>34870288

File: Amphibious Warfare.jpg (976KB, 2500x2531px) Image search: [Google]

976KB, 2500x2531px

>>34870294

File: J-10B SEAD loadout.jpg (102KB, 1024x767px) Image search: [Google]

102KB, 1024x767px

A newer J-10B SEAD loadout: 2×YJ-91 anti-radiation missiles, KG500 ECM pod, positioning pod, PL-8 AAMs

File: PLA Missiles.jpg (499KB, 1611x1771px) Image search: [Google]

499KB, 1611x1771px

>>34870304

>>34869973
you collection is impressive and useful
thank

File: b6.jpg (1MB, 1703x1080px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1703x1080px

Why can't chinks into aesthetic and efficiency?

File: 2 seat J-10 at Avidarts 2017.jpg (832KB, 1150x767px) Image search: [Google]

832KB, 1150x767px

The J-10 looks like a mash of a F-16 and a Eurofighter Typhoon to me.

>>34870321

Isn't that just a BTR?

File: parade df31ag.png (1MB, 1368x768px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1368x768px

>>34870315
There should be more DF-31A/B around.

We know about the ~30 DF-31A, but the recent parade has shown 16 DF-31AG/B ICBMs.

>>34870343
it was actually based on the Israeli Lavi, a plane that rivaled the F-16 so the US forced Israel to halt production.

>>34870345
That's assuming every canister there has an actual missile in it

>>34870364
Yeah nah the Isreali's just didnt have the money to compete with America.

File: jesus-osama-bin-laden.jpg (28KB, 279x286px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 279x286px

>>34870321

>Slavshit
>aesthetics and efficiency

>>34869368
Maybe the APS, but none of the other things so unusual things

>>34870364
>>34870396
Israel don't need its own fighter because America give them free aircraft

>>34870401

Shut your dumb whore face. BTR's are king of wheeled IFV.

>>34869089
>手自动一体变速器
Automatic transmission
Automobile manufactures and dealers in China usually refer the automatic transmission with torque converter as "手自动一体变速器(Manual-automatic converter", for automatic gear box always come with a manual mode.

>"增压"
Literally means charged. Could be supercharged or turbocharged, or super-turbocharged

>>34870396
wut? Israel is a fairly wealthy country

The main reason it was cancelled was the US was worried Israel would sell it to apartheid south africa, who Israel was very close with

>>34870425
and yet they've developed their own fighters in the past before

>>34870256
>two distinct families of tanks is the same as five distinct families of tanks

>>34870375
More than that, actually.

PLA Rocket Force launchers have reloads as well.

>>34870498
Less logistical problem than you would think.

Units do not operate their tanks as mish-mash, but exclusively one type. And that is even theatre wide, with the 99 series being used in the North East and North West, while the 96 in the South East and 59 based tanks in the South West.

Theatre Commands have all their own logistic bases.

>>34870364
>it was actually based on the Israeli Lavi,
Can we please stop spreading this misinfomation?
J-10 is based on J-9, which was also a canard and predated Lavi

>>34870459
Isreal is a fairly wealthy country but it couldnt compete with the US as far as foreign sales or money for updates and research and development.
>>34870459
Did they though? As far as i know they were planes they bought before or made under license, and they upgraded them further.
Could be wrong though.

File: 2017-08-11-Type-32-Nouvelle-modification-sur-le-banc-dessais-sous-marin-08.jpg (198KB, 1010x758px) Image search: [Google]

198KB, 1010x758px

>>34870294
The Qing-class has recently been modified with a raised step on its sail, which previously housed the two JL-2 SLBM launch tubes.

This is the clearest sign yet that the PLAN is testing a longer ranged SLBM.

File: 647858678978697869.jpg (232KB, 1200x684px) Image search: [Google]

232KB, 1200x684px

>>34870584
And also a raised platform where the cruise missile VLS tubes are (2), indicating a new generation of sub-launched cruise missiles is in the work.

File: file.png (3MB, 1579x1200px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1579x1200px

>>34870498
>five distinct families of tanks
Every china tank except Type 96B, Type 99 use the same line of engine that was developed from T-34 and T-54 engine

>>34870609
anyone got the rest of this article?

>>34870804
Try searching old /thg/ threads.

>>34870841
i did, found the thread, but look like the image server crashed

https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/31200874

File: unnamed.jpg (42KB, 600x831px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 600x831px

Anyone picked this badboy up yet?

File: 1024px-Map_of_Theatres_of_PLA_en.svg.png (270KB, 1024x815px) Image search: [Google]

270KB, 1024x815px

>>34868462
Got some more ORBAT stuff:

First; the reformed new offensive-specialized Theatre Commands replacing the previous defensive Military Regions.

File: China Southern Theater Command.jpg (789KB, 2144x1064px) Image search: [Google]

789KB, 2144x1064px

>>34871087
Southern TC

File: China Western Theater Command.jpg (892KB, 2358x1146px) Image search: [Google]

892KB, 2358x1146px

>>34871096
Western TC

File: Post Reform ORBAT.png (509KB, 5406x1626px) Image search: [Google]

509KB, 5406x1626px

>>34871099
North, Central and East TCs are still WIP.

This ORBAT here as well; since the GA's have all been renamed.

File: 061207czdzpctcdhxdmhtm.jpg (61KB, 522x565px) Image search: [Google]

61KB, 522x565px

>>34871129
The renaming scheme:

File: C7Qd8dEU4AExNMe.jpg (157KB, 972x986px) Image search: [Google]

157KB, 972x986px

>>34871131
And what the reforms meant in terms of reorganization: A few Combined Corps (GAs) were cut and merged with others.

>>34868524
>USA stuff: Blocky, doughy utilitarian and old-fashioned look

>Chinese stuff: Sleek, dark, elegant and dangerous looking

t. Chang Wufei

>>34868524
WZ10 developed by Kamov
ZTZ99 is a T72 copy
J20 is a mig1.44
Y-20 developed by antonov
looks like antonov
ZBD-08 literally BMP-3 turret chinese hull
is there's anything chinks can do without slavs?

File: CH AFV.jpg (225KB, 1156x600px) Image search: [Google]

225KB, 1156x600px

>>34868330
So, they are doing away with the ZBD-04A?

Personally, I was never a fan of the BMP-3 weapons combo. Too dangerous for the crew. At the slightest penetration, the entire IFV will vaporize. The carroussel with the 100mm shells are basically unprotected and surrounds the gunner. And it is not that the 100mm Bastion ATGM can actually threaten a modern western MBT at all...

So, a heavily armored IFV with 40mm autogun and seperate ATGM launcher (preferably top-attack/fire and forget) would be the best choice.

It is telling that even the Russians are doing away with that weapons combo in their Kurganets IFV.

>>34871181
>implying it isnt like this

There is literally no aesthetic american military hardware.

Ever since the emergence of the Su-27, the US has been BTFO in terms of military aesthetics.

File: Stride 2017.jpg (179KB, 1600x1067px) Image search: [Google]

179KB, 1600x1067px

Since this is the china thread, anyone know how Stride 2017 is going?

File: Every Year at Zhu Ri He.jpg (434KB, 1920x1096px) Image search: [Google]

434KB, 1920x1096px

>>34871334
Probably like every year.

Red Force gets BTFO by Blue's Gundams, Nukes, Nerve Agents and deathray equipped UFOs.

File: BOXER m02008062000021.jpg (134KB, 1000x751px) Image search: [Google]

134KB, 1000x751px

>>34868339
hmm

File: 30246373692_e6b51e3f49_k.jpg (345KB, 2048x1152px) Image search: [Google]

345KB, 2048x1152px

>>34871356
Wrong analogy.

The Boxer-SkyGuard's chinese copy is the BK1060 SR5 AD system.

Also equipped with a 35mm Oerlikon AHEAD gun, as well as 4x FN-16 MANPADS

File: 1646039_-_main.jpg (57KB, 752x423px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 752x423px

>>34871368

>>34871345
This picture is amazing.

>>34871345
story?

File: 054B.jpg (188KB, 2000x928px) Image search: [Google]

188KB, 2000x928px

And this is how Chinese military watching works, guys:

Some renowned leaker uses his dick to draw a crude picture of some new upcoming toy, and it immediately drives the entirety of the community mad as fuck.


Pic: Type 054B

File: upload_2017-8-14_13-15-22.jpg (74KB, 1374x740px) Image search: [Google]

74KB, 1374x740px

>>34871397
Some others make an educated guess and model something with google sketchup

File: 095208tyyyrxycsls7ghs7.jpg (463KB, 1697x1097px) Image search: [Google]

463KB, 1697x1097px

>>34871404
And it somehow fits, since there is this radar mast (dubbed "lotus latern" by the watchers) conveniently sitting around homeless besides the Wuhan Test Mockup of the Type 055 for years.

And since the actual Type 055 didnt feature this mast, it must belong to some other ship.

File: 1469316605704.jpg (126KB, 950x633px) Image search: [Google]

126KB, 950x633px

>>34871321
>So, they are doing away with the ZBD-04A?
nope, this ZBD-04A is more advanced than BMP-3
no need to replace it

>At the slightest penetration, the entire IFV will vaporize
you people make the same argument with the T-72, Type-99 and Type 96B use a similar autoloader

if it OK for the Type 99, it is OK for the ZBD-04
also the gunner and TC seat above the ammo, pic related, not any near safer but still

> And it is not that the 100mm Bastion ATGM can actually threaten a modern western MBT at all...
most country around China don't have Modern western tank

even again Modern western tank, it is not useless, as seen in Syria, even more outdated ATGM can be useful

>>34871345
What the fuck is this thing and why there is the Eiffel Tower?

>>34871368
>Also equipped with a 35mm Oerlikon AHEAD gun, as well as 4x FN-16 MANPADS
some African warlord would buy this

>>34871210
Retard confirmed

>>34871413
or it was a mockup and finally rejected for another design

File: uniforms all.jpg (110KB, 800x532px) Image search: [Google]

110KB, 800x532px

Does anyone think China has any major external threats? I can't see any country (or countries) that would even attempt to invade a country 1.5+ billion people

>>34871494
The Chinese are a bunch of headless chickens, if you decapitate the party they'll go into panic disorganized mode. They are such a submissive, cowed, cowardly people that they can not function without a powerful centralized leader. This is how Japan was able to take over so much of the country

>>34871494

Gee, it's almost as if they've never been invaded before

>>34868330
why does arma predict everything before its built

File: PLN CV-16 Liaoning + CBG - 201612 - 1s.jpg (155KB, 1200x750px) Image search: [Google]

155KB, 1200x750px

>>34871511

China has a LONG history of being invaded but I can't think of any reason to invade China in this era.

File: file.png (76KB, 259x194px) Image search: [Google]

76KB, 259x194px

>>34871536
because Czech is best Slavic country

related, this is a Zastava 6.5 Grendel assault rifle

it have the same retard magazine as the gun in the game

>>34871444
>Not knowing the Tokyo Tower.

File: DCzPvaNU0AE0rjy.jpg (54KB, 571x457px) Image search: [Google]

54KB, 571x457px

>>34870258
The Japanese tally on the Chinese fighter fleet:

>>34871099
>>34871096
>tfw you know the guy who made these maps

>>34871899
who?

he need to make the updated version after the 2017 reform

>>34871918
editor of China Brief

>>34871494
>anon can't into ideological subversion
hmm

File: APC IFV chart.png (61KB, 1185x679px) Image search: [Google]

61KB, 1185x679px

>tfw you know that you are a too hardcore China watcher if you get more excited looking at these charts than at actual photos.

>>34872084
>>34871891
>>34871169
>>34871131
>>34871129
>>34871099
>>34871096
>>34871087
>>34870315
>>34870304
>>34870294
>>34870288
>>34870281
>>34870270
>>34870267
>>34870263
>>34870258


Jesus christ this is crazy shit. Curious who the fuck you people are

Are you guys military or professional analysts or just hobbyists? Where do you find this stuff?

File: 3rd Borderguards Battalion ZSL92 IFV.jpg (57KB, 720x576px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 720x576px

>>34872194
This thread is basically CDF and Sinodefenseforum.

Most are at least ex-military-turned-OSINT analysts there. But it takes extra autism to deduce TOEs of battalion level (or even at coy level) by collecting photos and screengraps showing tactical numbers on vehicles.

File: difference from 2007 to 2017.jpg (112KB, 986x639px) Image search: [Google]

112KB, 986x639px

I guess these upgrades could be considered similar to the Leo 2 armor upgrades?

File: China's Eastern Theater Command pre 2017.jpg (451KB, 2048x1024px) Image search: [Google]

451KB, 2048x1024px

>>34871099
Eastern Tactical Command - IMHO the most interesting one due to geopolitics, but sadly this is the version of Jamestown which shows its state before Brigadization and reform of 2017.

These:
>>34871096
>>34871099
Are basicallly edited by OSINT analyst "Forbin" on CDF to reflect the post-reform state.

We still need more number-crunching to get Eastern TC up to that standard.

File: 230635j9hnh1hwyhys3o7r.jpg (150KB, 950x684px) Image search: [Google]

150KB, 950x684px

>>34872278
For the ZBD-04 I would say yes.

For the ZTZ-99... Not so much, since the ZTZ-99A is an entirely different tank, based on an entirely different chassis and turret.

https://www.economist.com/news/china/21725812-overhaul-says-lot-about-xi-jinpings-governing-style-reform-chinas-army-enters-new-phase

Good article about the recent military reforms.

Especially this part:

>Mr Xi took his first and biggest step towards cutting the army down to size in 2015, when he changed the PLA’s command-and-control system. Out went an organisation based on seven regions aimed mostly at controlling the domestic population. In came five more outward-looking “theatre commands”, which are designed to assert China’s authority in, say, the South China Sea, as well as Tibet. Mr Xi also announced that the PLA would be trimmed by 300,000 troops, to 2m, less than half the number of 1980

Basically, the reforms aim to make the PLA into an offensive force.

File: China_tanks.png (581KB, 1870x1574px) Image search: [Google]

581KB, 1870x1574px

>>34870804
Here is the /thg/ guide.

>>34872462
i don't want this

it have it on my PC long time ago

what i want is that september 2016 "Modern weapons" article

>>34872517
I actually dont remember any other page being scanned.

You probably got that photo from CD forums, I guess...

>>34872555
https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/31200874
the archived /thg/ thread have all the page

but the image server crashed

>>34868524
Ha I remember that post.
It was about how they make it lok like cartoon shit indeed.
Damn, that is a long time ago.

>>34872616
Ok, looks like you gotta dig some graves on those chinese forums to find them.

As always, these are the sources for all PLA related info.

>>34871494
Same could be said of the US

>>34870288
>Type 002 Class
>Year 2025-2030
>In service: 1

shit I clearly blacked out at least 8 years of my life, what happened between 2017 and 2025?

>>34871331
>There is literally no aesthetic american military hardware.

F-15, F-22, JLTV, etc.

It's funny you say this, when OPs pic is basically a fucking Bradley.

File: engine test.jpg (68KB, 640x384px) Image search: [Google]

68KB, 640x384px

>>34872907
001A class gets introduced, probably even in late 2018.

Actually, the 002 would probably be ready around 2023-2025.

By 2030, China plans to have their first nuclear carrier.

>>34872907
Not only that, like 60-75% of that list by number of hulls is obsolete in their class.

No wonder the chunks are modernizing, their navy is garbage.

File: 232125bhg6thnhtxfb6fhi.jpg (231KB, 1280x734px) Image search: [Google]

231KB, 1280x734px

>>34872948
Also, 002-class will probably be built in a pair.

China would have:

2 conventional ski-jump carriers (001 and 001A)
2 conventional catapult carriers (002)
2 nuclear catapult carriers (003)

>>34868390
They think a 35-ton tank is light? Thats a medium tank, and at that weight with that armament, its basically a clone of the m2 bradley.

The Chinks copied us again? What a surprise.

Still, leather seats is an innovation.

File: norinco APS demonstration.jpg (181KB, 1742x896px) Image search: [Google]

181KB, 1742x896px

So the demo went off okay from what I'm piecing from twitter. Thanks Google Translate!

>2nd Norinco Armor Day to be held today, there is an interception indication of the active protection system of the tank armored vehicle and an explosion-proof indication of the ground-tie resistant protective vehicle.

>>34873335

>China can into APS but the US of A still can't...

>>34873335
I really look forward to what this APS is.

An Arena-styled flying claymore concept or a EFP-based Trophy like system?

File: kawasaki_oh_1_ninja_by_ddmurasame-d6qrcqq.jpg (297KB, 1600x1065px) Image search: [Google]

297KB, 1600x1065px

>>34868401

Most of old Soviet aircraft, even newer Antonov stuff and Eurocopter stuff are built with legitimate licenses. Also that Kiowa WZ-19 comparison is cringeworthy as fuck, like rest of later additions.

>>34873344
US had an APS for a long while now, AN/VLQ-6.

>>34873335
Hmm, in point 5 they say that both a Tank and an Armored Car will use the APS.

If it can be mounted on a armored car, then it should be pretty compact and light weight.

>>34873476
>Also that Kiowa WZ-19 comparison is cringeworthy as fuck, like rest of later additions.

I think the last part was to compare function and not design/ engineering/ originality.

It's been around for ages too.

>>34873574
That's not the true origin, but this thread is going nicely due to an absence of a certain factor so I will let it be.

>>34868339
>>34868590
Too bad these weren't around while people were making low polygon video games.

>>34873326
Retard can't seperate IFV and Tank.
Go back to /pol dimwit.

>>34873611
To be fair the heavy IFV does look like a brad clone. I would put it at 30 tons, about the same as the BFV...

Interestingly, it's missing in its features list the most important soft factor, battlefield networking.

>>34873632
>heavy IFV
He was talking about the ZTQ15 light tank

>>34873799
I think he was referencing that post then talked about the OP.

File: iron_fist_ads.jpg (20KB, 240x365px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 240x365px

>>34873521
Probably something like that Iron Fist. A few radars and a turret with essentially two airburst launchers.

>>34871345
where is Char and his Zaku

>>34871384
This pic shows red vs. blue exercise in Zhurihe inner Mongolia, altogether known as the 'Stride' series of exercises that has been happening for some years.

And these exercises are known to be very unforgiving to the Red Force simulating the PLA itself, as they fight against the Blue Force that gets to play the US, who use WMDs against anything larger than a platoon, relentlessly bombs staging areas and uses absolute fantasy Sci Fi weapons against the Red Force (all seeing referees simulating US recon satellites making the battlefield 100 percent transparent for Blue, orbital strikes out of the blue against Red HQs, literally flying dishes frying Reds electronics with particle beams etc.).

Since Xi took over, he wants the PLA to train against fighting literal space aliens, so that they may be prepared for a real war against a Western Peer power.

The result is also in the picture: So far Blue won 27 times vs Red's 2 times.

File: 96b_1.jpg (327KB, 1579x1200px) Image search: [Google]

327KB, 1579x1200px

>>34870804

>>34871510
Yeah, that's not what happened.

>>34874012
The reports from Stride 2014 were hilarious.

File: 96b_2.jpg (319KB, 1579x1200px) Image search: [Google]

319KB, 1579x1200px

>>34874105

>>34869910
it'll die when they can move a mechanized division more than 50 clicks without shitting itself

i guess they havent stolen the tech for reliability yet

File: 96b_3.jpg (283KB, 1579x1200px) Image search: [Google]

283KB, 1579x1200px

>>34874127

File: 96b_4.jpg (274KB, 1579x1200px) Image search: [Google]

274KB, 1579x1200px

>>34874142
and the last page is what the first anon posted

>>34873326
yeah yeah
chink copy your again
May all the world copy you
YOU persecutory delusion

>>34874194

heya chang no need to be mad about the truth

>>34874136
>i guess they havent stolen the tech for reliability yet

>American cars
>reliability

at least there's nothing for China to steal from murrica

>>34874171
>>34874142
>>34874127
>>34874105
love you

File: 53479802_p0.jpg (768KB, 1500x648px) Image search: [Google]

768KB, 1500x648px

How PLA tank develop process?
I heard type 99 not the upgrade of 96,the were from individual way.

>>34868370
They want to take a bite out of Russia's export market. Five years from now nobody's going to be buying Russian anymore, it's all going to be PRC exports.

>>34874338
they are like T-80 and T-72

I like how Chinese shills shill supposed Chinese 'information' and yet it can't be supported by facts only by propaganda coming from the Chinese government instead. I do have to admire the thick skins of the shills though, they march on even if they know they're embarassed and humiliated.

>>34869007
>>34869036
Shtora's IR dalzzer don't work again TOW 2, MILAN 2 and HOT3

they may work again ATGM with active seeker, but the dazzler elevation is pretty shit

File: 1506389321544.jpg (35KB, 444x331px) Image search: [Google]

35KB, 444x331px

>>34874452

>obviously been reading everything in detail
>p-propaganda

you a masochist?

>>34871331
>You will take my opinion as fact, and here is why! More opinions!

>>34871494
in this day and age? no, it's for asserting themselves abroad. in the cold war? definitely.

>>34868401
>WZ-10 an Apache copy
>not a Rooivalk copy
The WZ-19 and the Kiowa is a huge fucking reach

File: PLA GL 5 APS 1.jpg (26KB, 634x362px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 634x362px

From twitter

>GL-5 tank active protection system just demonstrated its capability, successfully intercepted 120mm rocket.

Also, a Weibo steam up if anyone wants to watch.

http://weibo.com/p/2309121042097%3A6c708aa3f675830af9fd3ba66ea240b6

File: image.jpg (209KB, 2000x1021px) Image search: [Google]

209KB, 2000x1021px

This is a nice thread

>>34874012
>>34874120
Honestly while they're a bit over the top, I think the main point of these exercises is to try and depoliticize and professionalize the armed forces. Keep in mind that a few dozen years earlier there might have been tremendous political blowback if an OPFOR "defeated" an opponent in training (thus humiliating the commander).

The fact that agressor training is undertaken at all points to steps towards some semblance of professionalization and a separation of politics and ideology from the military.

>>34877342
This also could point to another reason for the obviously lopsided scenarios - it's a face-saving measure that allows all the involved groups to get practical training without necessarily having a "winner".

>Australian sheep leather seats

What a madman!

>>34871494
The Indians recently just invade and occupy a few hundred square kilometers of Chinese territory in the name of Bhutan. And they still haven't back down, yet.

Anyone have any pics from the stride exercises ?

>>34868330
>>34868346
Oh look they copied the CTA40.

>>34876150
Damn, any videos yet?

File: DHVMbwdWsAAiAnt.webm (972KB, 540x306px) Image search: [Google]

972KB, 540x306px

>>34877977

File: t40_turret_for_erbc_800[1].jpg (59KB, 800x483px) Image search: [Google]

59KB, 800x483px

>>34877914
Yeah, in your ass. They don't look very similar.

File: DHVO-rNXUAU5gB9.jpg (47KB, 679x382px) Image search: [Google]

47KB, 679x382px

>>34878012
MMW radars and airburst interceptors.

>>34878046
https://twitter.com/OedoSoldier/status/897689562910248960

Interception in real time. Basically instantly.

>>34878012
Lol an Afghanit copy.

Call me when they can copy American or Israeli APS, protip they can't.

>>34878063
>American APS
wut

>>34878063
>Afghanit

The GL5 is clearly like the Israeli Iron Fist

>>34878046
Looks like the countermeasure launchers have no elevation control, only azimuth. That should however be fairly simple to change.

>>34878012
Is the back blast supposed to be that big?

>>34878104
Yeah, rule of thumb is that the export version are usually rejected projects by the PLA.
The PLA variant should offer the full 360 bubble, for the reason alone that the Taiwanese have Javelins.

>>34878123
Compare to similar Israeli APS. This looks about same.

At least it isn't a flying claymore like the Arena.

>>34878090
You Chinese shills haven't seen the Afghanit working so you only can say that it doesn't look like a copy or just a coincidence or any shill like propaganda bullshit.

File: DHUV53kUIAEjPN2.jpg (60KB, 599x800px) Image search: [Google]

60KB, 599x800px

Type 59 based IFV.

>>34878215

And you have?

>>34878215
From what I can see from the Armata photos, the launch tubes of the hardkill system do not look like they cover all around the tank, but just the frontal sphere of the turret. As such, the GL5 and the Afghanit are already hugely different.

>>34878215
Then perhaps you can show us noobs some actual footage or evidence which isn't propaganda defined by you.

>>34878231
Based 59 will live on.

>>34877342
in an older article about Stride 2014 I read something similar. Bluefor command will get zero repercussion for stomping any Redfor troops. Meanwhile Redfor command will have to live up to the shame why they suck ass.
Only one Redfor won with 50% casualties and the MVP of Redfor was a tank commander who got cut off by main command and took his own initiative.

>>34872916
Except its not

>>34873326
No and ur gay, case closed

>>34874452
Wahh wahh

File: DHVc3EiXUAER-jV.jpg (218KB, 1200x800px) Image search: [Google]

218KB, 1200x800px

Damn, the VT-5 sure is a handsome light tank

File: DHVc3EnWsAAP6ZD.jpg (186KB, 1200x800px) Image search: [Google]

186KB, 1200x800px

>>34878457

File: DHVc3EsXsAElSOx.jpg (191KB, 1200x800px) Image search: [Google]

191KB, 1200x800px

>>34878461

File: DHVatsZWsAA5t79.jpg (115KB, 1200x675px) Image search: [Google]

115KB, 1200x675px

Royal Thai Army VT-4s

File: DHVaz1YXsAIIsXb.jpg (113KB, 1200x675px) Image search: [Google]

113KB, 1200x675px

>>34878512
They recently bought a bunch.

>>34878142
https://youtu.be/YpmcmKwWzYo

Arena back blast isn't that huge tho

File: 100442inw1yywzcacyb1s6.jpg (149KB, 1200x819px) Image search: [Google]

149KB, 1200x819px

>>34868362
They confirmed that it is the HJ-12

File: 20170816161646117.jpg (1MB, 3600x2399px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 3600x2399px

Oh baby, this thing looks awesome.

File: 20170816162317687.jpg (1MB, 3600x2400px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 3600x2400px

>>34878877
2x HJ-12 top-attack fire-and-forget ATGM
30mm gun with telescope ammo
unmanned turret
Gunner steers turret with Augmented Realitsy googles.

File: 20170816161533275.jpg (2MB, 3600x2400px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 3600x2400px

>>34878886

>>34878363
>ifv
>~30 tons
>h/k capabilities
>great optics
>autocannon
>missiles

Yeah, it is. It even looks like one.

>>34878886
Odd they would build a new IFV and not have the ability to reload missiles from the inside.

>>34879069
Bradley doesn't have unmanned turrets or a modern ATGM.

>>34879102
Unmanned turrets is a meh feature, it's neat but not gamechanging.

Brad can use javelins all day long my man.

>>34879097
I guess it would be too complicated to add an autoloader for missile tubes, without making the turret huge again.

>>34879112
It's an heavy ifv, there is no reason not to have that turret manned.

Unmanned turrets are light and great for like, strykers and other light vehicles. But having people in the turret for when things go wrong is great. And it separates the troops in the back from the driver and gunner and commander.

>>34879102

Yes and they have been used in the invasion of Iraq against conventional army assets with great success.

>>34879102
>modern ATGM.
>implying the top attack tow is not modern

>>34879069
By that logic everything is an UAZ which has a machinegun mounted you retarded faggot

>>34879122
When things go wrong? What? There is 0 advantage of manned turrets

>>34879254
>UAZs are 30 ton ifvs with h/k capabilities and an autocannon and missiles.

Dude... Show this wunderwaffe now.

>>34879279
>having an autocannon and missles means its a bradley

>>34879267
>What?

Misfires, jams, linkage breaks, easy access to reload packs, overall faster reloadss, protected reloads, etc.

Unmanned makes sense for light and/or low profile, but this IFV is neither.

Just seems silly not to give a man access to the gun.

>>34879294
Bruh let's see this uber UAZ.

>would it make you happier if I called it a western IFV clone?

>>34879334
>everything that has a cannon and a missle is a western clone

>>34872948
Yes, which is why "in service" is a lie.

>>34879359
Guess it wont.

Still waiting on that mythical UAZ

File: hqdefault.jpg (12KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

12KB, 480x360px

>>34879410
It has an MG mounted on so its an UAZ

>>34879426
Wrong, UAZ is a jeep clone.

>>34879433
Ur a cheeky little cunt I will give ya that, m8

File: ManyDisappoint.jpg (94KB, 435x435px) Image search: [Google]

94KB, 435x435px

>>34868524
Just because something is painted black doesn't mean it looks dangerous

>>34868330
>heavy

Nah, it's just a normal western styled IFV. Heavy IFV is an ifv that has simular levels of protection as a MBT in its generation.

I think it looks quite like a modern marder.

>>34879460
Black is nearly the worst color for camouflage. To get worse you have to get into fluorescents.

I would be willing to bet the moment a war happens they strip that shit.

File: camo.png (779KB, 635x633px) Image search: [Google]

779KB, 635x633px

>>34879504
Better tell this guy that his makeup is giving away his position!

>>34879559
>implying his face is completely black.

Nice try.

>>34879504
My point
Your head

>>34879571
?

File: yNlQWRM.jpg (865KB, 1813x2111px) Image search: [Google]

865KB, 1813x2111px

>>34869973
>9 MBTs + 3 Light Tanks

>>34879776
Surely you don't think they gonna give African Warlord #2397 ZTZ-99 in return for mining contracts right?

>>34879776
Just fuck my logistics up man.

>tfw 4 different MBT tank calibers

>>34879825
4 different artillery calibers, and 5 different MLRS rocket calibers.

Holy fuck, the PLA is a complete cluster fuck.

>>34868330
*breaks down first time out*
*spends more time in shop than on field*

>>34879803
The Soviets solved that problem long ago by just taking their old obsolete tanks and stripping out anything they want kept secret to as export models. Most of Africa still uses T-54/55s, the standards there aren't exactly high.

>>34879215
EFP-based top-attack is poor-man's top attack.

Literally a single sheet of thin steel on top can defeat an EFP top-attack.

Real top-attack is contact Tandem-HEAT top attack of a warhead actually slamming onto the top of a tank, ignoring all sorts of lightweight add-on armor and even top-mounted heavy ERA and turn the turret into mush.

And no, the TOW-2 cant do that, since it is just an EFP-based missile.

>>34879825
>>34879840
125mm and 105mm are the only tank calibers. The odd 120mm for the Type 89 tank destroyer is on the way out.

The 100mm for the old Type 59s is also shared with the 100mm wheeled assault guns that are subordinate to infantry regiments. And even this is on the way out and replaced by 105mm armed assault guns.

Artillery basically has unified to 155mm and 122mm shells, as well as 122mm rockets and 300mm heavy rockets - and those are only used by dedicated artillery regiments subordinate to Corps Level command.

>>34868535
Thats a weirdly large ammount for that few vehicles thb. Swedish brigades used to have 80 tanks, around 110 IFVs and only 4000 people.

>>34868549
15k is normal, or even in the lower end for diviosions.

File: chinese_heavy_rocket_artillery.jpg (37KB, 400x268px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 400x268px

>>34869973
>>34869981
Very nice ! Did you make that ? Which nomenclature is used here (I'v heared chinese vehicles got two names) ?

>>34880404
>125mm and 105mm are the only tank calibers.
Then you state that 100mm and 120mm armed tanks exist. The 100mm armed type 59 makes up 2,300 tanks.

>fucking wheeled assault guns
Jesus.

>as well as 122mm rockets and 300mm heavy rockets
I see 122, 300, 370, and 400mm listed.

>>34880332
>Literally a single sheet of thin steel on top can defeat an EFP top-attack.

Which is why Soviet tanks had ERA on their roofs.

>>34880332
The Top attack tow has a dual EFP warhead, so any era would be killed.

The standoff armor argument would also defeat heat warheads, so it's kind of redundant. The reasons for not putting a roof on your tank is many.

>>34868462
translation:
127 light mech infantry division gets splitted into two brigades, one if a light mechanized and the other is a heavy mechanized combined brigade.

1st Unit:
Previously the 127th's 379th light mech Infantry Regiment converted to the 379th Combined Arms Mechanized Brigade

4x Combined Arms Battalions, each with:
- 3x mech inf companies: 31x ZSL92 IFVs (4x31= 124 IFVs in total)
- 2x mobile assault gun companies: 20x PTL-05 105mm wheeled assault guns (4x20 = 80 in total)
- 1x artillery/fire-support company: 6x PLL-05 wheeled 120mm mortar gun vehicles (4x6 = 24)

1x Artillery Battalion (5 companies):
- 2x heavy Artillery coy: 9x 152mm SPH PLZ-83 (2x9 = 18 in total)
- 2x medium Artillery coy: 9x 122mm truck based guns, should be PCL-09 howizer trucks (2x 9 = 18 in total)
- 1x anti-tank missile coy: 4x HJ-8E ATGM vehicles (each with x8 launchers)

1x Air Defense Battalion (4 companies):
- 2x SPAAG coy: 9x PGZ-07 Sino-Gepard 35mm SPAAG (2x 9 = 18 in total)
- 2x Air Defense Missile coy: 9x FN-6 MANPAD vehicles (2x 9 = 18 in total)

124 IFVs, 80 MGS, 24 heavy mortar guns, 18 heavy SPH, 18 medium SPH, 4 missile carriers, 18 SPAAGs, 18 MANPAD vehicles.

File: 127th Div.jpg (54KB, 326x402px) Image search: [Google]

54KB, 326x402px

>>34868462
>>34880874
2nd Unit:
Previously the 127th's 380th light mech infantry Regiment gets merged with the 127th's organic armored regiment

4x Combined Arms Battalions, each with:
- 3x mech inf coy: 124x ZSL-92 or ZBD-86 IFVs (124 in total after getting additional 31 from the armored regt.)
- 2x tank coy: 80x ZTZ-96A MBTs (original armor regiment had 93 tanks, so they have to give up 13 tanks)
- 1x artillery coy: 24x ZSD-89 120mm mortar carriers (previous had 10, now getting 12 more from somewhere else)

1x Artillery Battalion (5 coys):
- 2x artillery coy: 18x PLZ-89 122mm medium SPH
- 2x MRLS coy: 18x 40-barrelled PHL-81 MRLS
- 1x ATGM coy: 4x HJ-8E ATGM vehicles (x8 launchers)

1x AD battalion (4 coys):
- 2x SPAAG coy: 12x PGZ-95 23mm SPAAGs (2 x 6 vehicles per company)
- 2x MANPAD coy: 18x FN-6 MANPAD vehicles

124 IFV, 80 MBT, 24 mortar carriers, 18 medium SPH, 18 MRLS, 4 ATGM carriers, 12 SPAAG, 18 MANPAD vehicles.

Pic is the 127th Division before the brigadization.

>>34880584
>fucking wheeled assault guns

What is the Stryker MGS?

>I see 122, 300, 370, and 400mm listed.

only 122 and 300 is in PLA service. Rest are export.

>>34873497
He was clearly referring to hardkill measures.

File: 884bdf37f969f9e1d1191ecdda4d8df4.png (611KB, 728x513px) Image search: [Google]

611KB, 728x513px

>>34880899
I was talking about the type 86 100mm gun.

>only 122 and 300 is in PLA service.

Phz-10 is in service.

File: 3. 火箭炮_(x18)PHZ10型122毫米自行火箭炮.jpg (30KB, 726x489px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 726x489px

>>34881003
PHZ-10 is a 122mm system.

Ok, it's adaptive, but the main missiles for it are still 122mm.

And the Type 86 towed AT gun... I dont know where this thing still serves. Maybe some reserve or militia regiments.

>>34880530
How much people does sweden and china has in the army?

>>34880879
>>34880874
Odd there is no organic medical/maintaince company, no signals company, no engineer company.

>>34881025
>And the Type 86 towed AT gun... I dont know where this thing still serves.

It was developed in the late 80s and it is still a mainstay in PLA moterized divisions.

>>34879458
>>34879433
Kek'd hard, thanks guys

>>34881105
Why would they need all those POG's bringing em down

>>34881208
I guess if you don't want anything mechanical or biological fixed, and if you want tankers/grunts beating on radios with rocks.

>>34881105
>>34880879
>>34880874
Uhhh.... Might be crazy here. Where the fuck is the recon element????

>>34881232
electronics don't break down
anyone can solder some wires if necessary
grunts injured go to a hospital
People can do their own communications
And grunts can be trained to do their own maintenance, plus you buy vehicles that don't have catastrophic breakdowns every week.

>>34881261
>electronics don't break down
Wew lad.
>anyone can solder some wires if necessary
WEW LAD.
>grunts injured go to a hospital
Well OK, now you are taking non organic elements and trying to get them to brigade. Your grunt just died. Fug.
>People can do their own communications
Lel
>And grunts can be trained to do their own maintenance,
"HEY GRUNT, HERE IS A WRENCH, CHANGE THIS POWER PACK"
>plus you buy vehicles that don't have catastrophic breakdowns every week.
Kek

>>34881261
>electronics don't break down
t. Neverserved
>anyone can solder some wires if necessary
Bullshit. Not only do 90% of grunts not have a clue how to do it, 99.9% wouldn't know how to diagnose what needs to be fixed.
>grunts injured go to a hospital
Sure, if you have a handy hospital nearby. If you're in a warzone, that doesn't happen. Also, first aid and clinic-level medical aid needs to be organic to at the very least on the brigade level.
>People can do their own communications
And grunts can be trained to do their own maintenance, plus you buy vehicles that don't have catastrophic breakdowns every week.
Ok, 7/10 troll.

>>34881311
>>34881287
So rather than Grunts doing makework like raking sand they can learn useful skills

You don't need distinct units for things to get done. Maybe that doesn't work in the female or non-white filled US military where there is no sense of unity/solidarity.

>>34881105
They usually dont mention them, since they really cant get any tally on even their tactical numbers.

But all Chinese regiments and divisions used to have recon, maintenance, signals and security companies.

>>34881381
>Expecting a tanker/grunt to be a electrician, a commo, a doctor, and a mechanic.
Say it with me....

COMBAT INEFFECTIVE.

>also no recce, I mean what the fuck.

>>34881408
Not listed, I can accept that.

However, the lack of recon is more than a little odd. It is a tactical unit, it should be listed. How is this supposed to be a self contained unit of maneuver without recon?

File: 1371636365_35123.jpg (86KB, 900x600px) Image search: [Google]

86KB, 900x600px

>>34881256
>>34881448

These ORBAT/TOEs are Work in Progress by outside PLA watchers.

We know that the divisions had recon elements, but we still dont know where they went and how they look like in the brigades.

See:
>>34868549

We know, for example, that artillery battalions all have their own organic UAV platoons for recon, but we cant really make out how many and how they are organized.

>>34881381
>You don't need distinct units for things to get done
Definitely neverserved. If you think your average grunt knows how to pull an engine out for deep maintenance you're wrong, and if you think teaching all grunts how to do this instead of having dedicated specialist units they you're deluded.

File: 001CYxl0gy6W1gXbXHQ22&690.jpg (76KB, 690x517px) Image search: [Google]

76KB, 690x517px

>>34881474
A few identified Recce vehicles:

ZBD-04A based recon IFV, probably organic to heavy mechanized brigades

File: 004628xshhhosbssvmp7s7.jpg (15KB, 340x417px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 340x417px

>>34881500
Has some sort of MMW-radar and EOS combo mast.

File: xxxx00008.jpg (33KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 480x360px

>>34881504
Artillery Recce/FO vehicle.

Has no armament, but only a mast-mounted MMW radar and EOS.

File: 004632c8lszml7fi7lppl7.jpg (33KB, 636x439px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 636x439px

>>34881516
Same Recon IFV for 8x8 wheeled mech inf units.

File: 095729ax46ch3m2xeulyme.jpg (331KB, 900x925px) Image search: [Google]

331KB, 900x925px

>>34881519
4x4s also have it.

We dont know if they belong to divisional/brigade Recon or to any subordinate units.