Sig 320 the only modern pistol which fails drop test

Is this new meme?

When will the bans start

>>34859449
>four chans dot organization
>banning for spicy new maymays
>spicy new maymay is that sig is (surprise) shit because IT FUCKING FIRES WHEN DROPPED LIKE ITS 1890
>on a board dedicated specifically to firearms memes
You're the perfect owner for a 320, just make sure you spike that fucker like you made it to the end zone.

i wonder how many people are going to mention the rusty guide rod on the trp.

>>34859436
good job army! really thought this one through!

>>34859436
>brojag test
was she trying to be sarcastic

How was something like this missed in the army test? Figured they'd do things like hammer tent stakes in while it's loaded.

>>34859476
You mean like gen 1 and gen 2 Glocks did for over a decade?

Glock also called that a "voluntary upgrade"

>>34859502
the answer is they never test the gun seriously

this is a long video but worth it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGI2H0EjDTw

>>34859502
It passed the military standard drop test your dumb fuck

MIL-STD 810G

>>34859520
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGI2H0EjDTw

can you watch this video?
>Army done the 12500 rounds test
>gun was putted on a bench, fired by a machine
>Army skipped the 22500 rounds test in field condition
> the most important test

>>34859520
It still goes off when dropped, so clealy the test protocol is flawed, which means you can take that MIL-STD 810G and cram it.

>>34859520
Is that supposed to mean something? If anything it goes to show you how inadequate MIL-STD 810G is

>>34859436
>M1911 passed
Noice.

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>>34859512
>name drops glock
>in response to a post that never mentioned glock
>thinks everyone who recognizes sig's shit stinks must be a glock sucker
>thinks a round popping off when dropped is ok because glock did it first.

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>>34859497
>was she trying to be sarcastic

Who knows how women think?

>>34859599
Thing has so many safeties it should pass anything

>>34859554
>It still goes off when dropped, so clealy the test protocol is flawed, which means you can take that MIL-STD 810G and cram it.

That would be correct. The test was designed for hammer fired pistols, where the biggest danger is the hammer being inadvertently released by dropping it on the hammer or on the safety.

This has been irrelevant for many decades now, but testing all angles would be expensive and time consuming, so no one bothered to update the testing protocol.

>>34859659
>test protocol is to bang on it in a few very select angles
>not loading an action proving dummy round and just spiking the fucker on the ground a few dozen times.
Seriously, just put a drum on a pneumatic rod that tosses the gun 4 feet into the air then let's it bang down onto the solid surface inside the drum. You could test hundreds of times an hour and get more realistic results.

First andrew exposes fireclean as just being crisco now he's exposed Sig as putting out unsafe pistols. What a savage.

>>34859686

The testing would be hard to reproduce. Randomly throwing shit is not how the army likes to test things.

>>34859708
Andrew is nothing but classy. He's totally underrated as a firearms journalist.

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>>34859502
The M17 internals are not the same as the Civvie P320 internals. What the 'voluntary upgrade" is doing is bringing a civvie P320 up to the M17 spec, sans manual safety.

>>34859686
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGI2H0EjDTw
just watch this video, Jesus

Sig cheat the test so their gun can be adopted

>>34859753
Dammit, forgot the link. Good pics here too. TTAG really covered this debacle well:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/08/jeremy-s/mechanics-behind-sig-p320-drop-safety-failures/

>*I am a P320 owner and I'm more than a little pissed at Sig about this. I'm taking my "upgrade", but I'm not sure I'll be doing future business with them again.

>>34859753
>The M17 internals are not the same as the Civvie P320 internals
the M17 is not affected by the upgrade doesn't mean it doesn't have the same flaws

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>>34859753
IT'S MONADAY
WHERE ARE MY FUCKING DETAILS SIG!!!!11
WHERE????

>>34859781
OH RIGHT TODAY'S THE DAY. OH SIIIIIIIG! FIX MY SHIT BITCH

>>34859709
Then the army needs to pull its head out of its ass and understand there is a difference between experimenting and testing. Experiments are done under exacting circumstances which eliminates as many variables as possible and to be as exactly reproducible as possible. Testing is a broad examination of a given scenario or situation. For example, one would TEST if a gun was drop safe by simply dropping it. Over and over, dropping it to see if it would fire. Should the TEST fail then you would EXPERIMENT to determine exactly why the test failed, using precise measurements, applications of force, with zero variables that weren't controlled.

>>34859779
read the TTAG article. good pics, much better discussion than I can articulate.
>>34859772

>>34859779
>lighter trigger
>manual safty
yeah it kinda does mean that

>>34859436
why isn't it drop safe? i saw some saying the trigger itself pulls at this angle, others saying the lack of a trigger bar safety allows the striker to recoil from the impact

>>34859807
>why isn't it drop safe? i saw some saying the trigger itself pulls at this angle, others saying the lack of a trigger bar safety allows the striker to recoil from the impact

From Andrew's vids, I'd say it's the weight of the trigger itself that cause it to fire. Swapping the trigger unit with a lighter X-Five unit makes it safe.

Go watch the original vid.

>>34859807
Stock trigger has enough mass and therefore enough momentum that it doesn't stop when pistol hits ground at that specific angle. It essentially acts like it's being pulled.

>>34859807
Read the TTAG article.
>>34859772

TL;DR: the trigger has a lot of mass, dropped from this angle promotes it to travelling far enough NOT to fire, but to disengage the trigger safety-and the strike slips during the same impact. That's why its an inconsistent failure, sometimes, the trigger safety doesn't disengage, sometimes it does, sometimes the striker slips, sometimes it doesn't.

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>>34859807
Everyone says it's the trigger weight but they don't fucking know what's happening internally just by watching videos.

Sig is "upgrading" entire trigger mechanism, not just the trigger itself, which suggests this "heavy trigger" meme is wrong, that the whole mechanism is susceptible to drop-firing.

>>34859520

When the Pentagon says "test", they really mean a dog and pony show. Sig got the contract by promising generals "consultation jobs" when they retire from the military. Same as any other government contractor.

>>34859930
but putting the x five trigger in normal p320 made them drop safe

>>34860218
There is no evidence that is true.

Sig really dropped the gun and shot themselves in the foot with this one.

>>34859824
And then watch people set the gun off by hitting the back of the slide with a hammer

>>34860711

The hammer drives the slide and frame forward, while inertia from its weight keep the trigger stationary, thus pulling the trigger?

High speed footage likely could show if this is true or not.

>>34860681
Sug USA took a footgun to the face.

>>34860732
footage of the gun being struck from the rear with a rubber mallet shows no trigger motion what-so-ever.

>>34860354
omaha outdoors, the guys who started it all, said so

>>34860794
they also said that was their back of the napkin assumption, later testing revealed that the trigger was probably not the only culprit.

>>34860681
Lol

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Ok lads! The Upgrade support site is now live.

https://www.sigsauer.com/support/p320-voluntary-upgrade-program/

>>34861257
fugg gotta send it in from germany. hopefully sig can fix it here too.

>>34861345
The faq says you've gotta contact your local SIG rep. I hope that doesn't impede your upgrade, krautbro.

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>>34861257
>In the meantime, your SIG SAUER pistol is safe to carry and use as originally configured from the factory.

BULL SHIT

If it was safe why are you upgrading it

REEEEE

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>>34861374
my local store is an official sig dealer. but if it has to travel across the big pond and with the flood of gun that'll be send in i expect the gun to be gone for literal months. sig germanys site has no info on this whole ordeal at all.
>mfw

>>34859708
>>34859748
He is a really great gun journalist, and critically underrated. I've been following his articles for a long time now and have yet to find fault with any of his past tests.

He also seems an all around good guy.

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>>34859436
>Other guns compared in the same drop test, none of them discharged from a similar drop.

Century-old revolvers manage not to fail drop tests. Sig really fucked up on this one and I don't say this as a glockfag, I say this as someone with an M&P shield who wanted to fucking buy a P320!

>>34861432
Well you DO have to:
1) drop it from greater than 4 feet
2) onto a hard surface
3) at precisely the angle as shown in the videos
all for the weapon to MAYBE discharge. so, as far as the lawyers are concerned, its all good.
>I'm still getting my upgrades though, kek

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>>34859436

>>34861448
laaaaame. Its starting up today. I'd get with your store first thing tomorrow. get out in front of the herd on this one hans

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>>34861498
Doesn't matter. People have been making completely Dropsafe guns (either with manual safeties, or bladed triggers like Glawks, or with just making sure that an inertial impulse on the trigger will be more than counterbalanced by the same impulse on other parts) for many decades, it's absolutely unacceptable for SIG to fuck up this badly. Give me a P320 that's as dropsafe as a Glawk please.

>>34861501
Ahh, that was a good thread. I'm glad I rated inclusion in that cap.

>>34861530
>Give me a P320 that's as dropsafe as a Glawk please.
Sure thing! 4-6 weeks after SIG gets it back :D

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They really do make Combat Flip Flops.

>headed over to Amazon

>>34861580
Only tacticalChad can wear those.

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>European gun company lets americans make their guns
>Completely fucking it up as usual
>more news at 11

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>>34861586
>Only tacticalChad can wear those.
fuck...

>>34861580

>What is self awareness?

>>34861517
>get out in front of the herd
yep that's the plan john

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I wonder why Sig doesn't have a drop safety like Glock?

>>34861647
because they were able to save 40 cents per gun by not including it

>>34859520
>>34859554
>>34859659

>mfw Booz Allen gets a $500 million contract to revise MIL-STD-810G to H because the Army tried to save $200 million on the MHS.

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>>34861642
I hope we both actually had that conversation in their voices. I need to rewatch that flick.

>>34859436
A vuurwapenblog post in 2017?

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>>34861744
kek. reminds me to someday get a p7.

>>34861580
FLOPER8TOR

>>34859436
Based

>>34859554
Only on civilian models homo. Don't you faggots read?

>>34859781
It's up on the website.

>>34859824
They're also adding a disconnecter so they need to mill some shit out. So new trigger and firing pin and disconnecter.

>>34859554
Tripfags go and stay go

>>34861580
that name is pretty good but
>$35
>for some cheapo $5 flip flops

>>34859824
>>34859840
>>34859851
>>34859930

So if it does end up just being the mass of the trigger (hypothetically) couldn't we all just wait for the prices to drop through the floor and then buy a p320 super cheap and throw in an aftermarket trigger?

>>34863600
It's not just the trigger. Its the trigger mass being enough to move far enough to disengage the trigger safety, and the striker assembly being able to trigger when striking a hard surface hard enough. They're also adding a disconnector. look at the pics on the The Truth About Guns article linked above.

>>34861810
I honestly don't see the appeal, the mechanism is nice but I'd get a Walther if I wanted something that worked on a gas system. Looks like a weird block.

>>34861580
If you wear these you're the definition of a fag

>>34859709
> The testing would be hard to reproduce. Randomly throwing shit is not how the army likes to test things.


You indeed do need exhaustive, controlled testing that's used to demonstrate that a device is SAFE TO USE, but you only need a SINGLE COUNTEREXAMPLE needed to show that a device is NOT SAFE to use.

The thing with the P320 was the latter. Just one instance of an in-spec, brand-new, unmodified pistol firing when dropped is enough to show that the device is not OK and not safe.