/thg/ - treadhead general

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Tank and AFV news as per the format:

- Pakistani has entered into talks with Ukraine about a purchase of 100 Oplot tanks.
- Rumors about an Iraqi purchase of T-90 have solidified into a confirmation of a purchase of 73 T-90S/SK tanks.
- Turkey has decided to start a program for an indigenous AAV.
- Boeing and GDLS have announced a partnership to build a SHORAD vehicle based on the Stryker.
- Turkey moves forward with the Altay program, soliciting bids from three local firms for production. Value is estimated at more than $10 billion.

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Would the Bv206 type design theoretically work if upscaled for a large and heavily armored tank? A joint like that allows it some rather absurd mobility:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpbQeSGBR10

>>34843457
>Baltics
Balkans

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>>34843599
And that is why proofreading is a good idea.

One of these threads I will do an OP without mistakes.

>>34843631
whats with the floating CROWS?

Kurganets is kill.

http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/2017/08/blog-post_10.html

>>34843462
>Boeing and GDLS have announced a partnership to build a SHORAD vehicle based on the Stryker.

Aren't they using Hellfires for some reason? I guess the Longbow could pull it off, but the AIM-9X seems like a better option.

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>>34844314
They are claiming they can mount a wide number of missiles on the platform but yes they are test firing Hellfires off it soon.

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>>34844747
But why?

>>34844917
Because a large new program means more opportunities for career advancement.

Practically its likely due to the Army not actually knowing what they want. Boeing/GDLS just throws every missile they can think of on it and is talking about guns with the hope that some part of it will appeal to the Army.

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>>34844917
Hellfires can be fired at ground targets as well as low flying aircraft. The modernized Avenger turret can be fit with a number of different weapons.

There is supposed to be a JLTV equipped with one at AUSA this year (which is the platform I expect the US Army to go with).

>>34845726
>Maneuver SHORAD Launcher (MSL)
They put an acronym in an acronym.
I am impressed.

>>34845726
I know the Israelis took out a Cessna with a Hellfire once.

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The new Namer turret makes my dick hard.

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Russia just won tank biathlon 2017

>>34847467
That's like saying Coca Cola won the best in show for Coca Cola copies

>>34847488
Type 96B is the 7UP of the tank world

it prefer it over Real Coca Cola

but Coca Cola is still the best

and Abrams is the moutain dew of tank world

>>34847488
Figuratively speaking, this competition is not for Coca-Cola, but for those who drink it.

>>34847467
was kinda disappointed that Zimbabwe didn't enter in one of their ZIRPA leftover T-34s

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>>34843462
>>34843457
EXPECTED news.

Challenger 2 Life Extension Project (LEP) Tender winner is expected to be announced within the next 3 Weeks. Initial Tender response date was set for 11th August 2017, however negotiations and selection of certain equipment and extras may delay the response for no later than 1st September 2017.

If Rumours are to believed the BAE refit is favoured during testing at the British army's Armoured Trials and Development Unit (ATDU) Bovington.

Further doubts were cast on the Rheinmetall Coalition due to the relative weakness of the pound following brexit, and previous failures in contract delivery.

However in an unrelated contract QinetiQs MEDUSA soft kill APS (development of Rheinmetalls MUSS) is said to be entering service in mid 2018 On the British Army's Challenger 2, AJAX and Warrior 2 Fleets

>>34844917
Sounds like a bed for an over watch vehicle against helicopters, low flying aircraft and tanks.

>>34848301

>
However in an unrelated contract QinetiQs MEDUSA soft kill APS (development of Rheinmetalls MUSS) is said to be entering service in mid 2018 On the British Army's Challenger 2, AJAX and Warrior 2 Fleets

Entering testing in 2018. Not service.

>>34848456
Already in testing.

>>34847355
Is there anything that 40mm does that 30mm can't?

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about the tank of Tank Biathlon 2017. it seen that nobody is talking about this even the Russian.

-Russian team
>A special version of the T-72B3
>developed by UVZ for Russian Tank Biathlon team
>initial development on this tank was start after Tank Biathlon 2016
>UVZ declared in 2016 that the new tank will have a new 1250 hp engine

result Russian finished 15 minutes earlier than the second team

-China team
>Type 96B
>after Tank biathlon 2014, PLA faced with the reality that their Type 96A is pretty shit
>development on the new Type 96 start in 2015
>a modified Type 96A( new road wheel and main gun sight) was sent to tank biathlon 2015
>the Brand new Type 96B was finish in 2016
>in 2016, it catch the Russian off guard
>almost win 2016, too bad one road wheel broke

result almost win 2016, finish third in 2017

-Belarus
>in 2016 they was using a Domestic upgraded T-72B
>the tank was dub T-72BM1 with war gaming logo all over it
>pretty much just a T-72B 1989 with Sosna-U
>in 2017, Russia sent them 4 new T-72B3
>those tank is the same model as the T-72B3 showed in victory day parade in Moscow this year
>Belarus bring those tank to tank Biathlon 2017
>these new T-72B3 have the 1130 hp V-92SF2 engine and automatic transmission
>the same engine and transmission in the T-72B4 or T-72B3M, the russian team used in 2016 and 2014.

result fourth place in 2016 and 2017

everyone that cann't bring their own tank use Russian T-72B3.
These tank was took from Russian service, unlike Russian Biathlon team's tank that was special built by UVZ.

>T-72B3
>Sosna-U sight
>890hp engine with manual transmission

this year India was driving their T-90S, but 2 tank broken down in the Semi final.

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>>34849189
also, Serbia will be received 30 T-72B3 from Russia

some of these tank will be used by Serbia team in Tank biathlon 2018.

>>34849189
What exactly isn't being talked about?

>>34849189

>Indians still can't get T-72s to function

I wonder if they'll blame Russian engineering as normal.

>>34849245
the new Russian T-72B3 with 1250 hp engine

>>34849048
Measure 40 mm, at least

>>34849251
they already blaming the tank in the mass media

or making fun of China because Type 96B road wheel broke in 2016

>>34849256
You mean your complete speculation based on an exhaust pipe?

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>>34849322
you can identify V-84 and V-92 series with the engine exhaust

this tank have a 890hp V-84 engine

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>>34849345
this one is a V-92S 1000 hp engine

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>>34849354
this one is the V-92S2F 1130 hp engine

>>34843765

Godammit, that was my favourite of the new vehicles...

>>34848466

Source?

>>34849367
>>34849354
>>34849345
Now post a confirmed 1250HP engine exhaust.

>>34843765
so basically the Kurganets is kill because Kurgan gone bankrupt

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>>34849400
this exhaust is clearly not the 1130 hp V-92S2F nor the 1000hp V-92S

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>>34849425
Belarus tank for comparison
the this one is the V-92S2F

>>34843765
http://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=458749
no, they will release it this year

>>34849425
Okay, now post an exhaust that is confirmed to be 1250HP.

>>34849512
there is no confirmation on the 1250 hp yet

but that tank is clearly got a new engine

>>34849552
Thank you for being man enough to admit you were wrong, most anons would just shitpost and damage control.

>>34849946
yeah, i wait til UVZ confirm about this engine

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>>34849048
>Is there anything that 40mm does that 30mm can't?

It varies based on which 40mm you are talking about but in general they will have greater effective range with their APFSDS and a larger payload with their HE/airburst rounds. For example a 30mm KETF has 162 sub projectiles while a 35mm KETF has 407 sub projectiles.

>>34849389
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/army-strikes-back-with-new-weapon-to-protect-tanks-66pkjnjst

>>34850492

Post the full article, not just a locked out one.

>>34843557
The swedes already made a prototype joint linked tank like that with an unmanned turret but the end of the cold war killed it iirc.

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>>34843457
Early-War tanks look so puny. It's crazy to think that only 5 years after these things were rolling of production lines they were starting to produce stuff like the Centurion.

>>34843457
Iirc that tank is OP as shit in low tier WoT

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>>34844314
>>34844747
>>34844917
>>34845726
The MMEV did it better.

>>34850936
That tank in particular was built to a price spec only, but that gives a good example of the mindset of early design teams.

>>34849189
So, my question to you is this; is this essentially International Tank NASCAR or something? It seems like these are mostly "street tanks" that have been riced out. How much HP gain would a giant intercooler, air funnel, and exhaust system net you?

Do you need to drop the height of the road wheels, put a spoiler on the back and pack it full of sponsor stickers?

>>34852502
Try posting a real image and not a poor photoshop.

>>34847467
Through cheating
Not suprised at all tho

>>34849189
Russian Team
>Missed 2 targets
>Lost track
>Clock misteriously stopped
Somehow managed to place 1 2 and 3 before the semi-final
>Canceled live broadcast for the final so that no one would find out how fishy they are.

Chinese Team
>Banned to use APFSDS due to embarssment they brought upon russian in 2014
>Banned to use gun calibration device, got notice 5 mintues before the game
>Hit all 3 targets count as 2
>Paused by russian every few mintues
>In S-300 contest, Chinese team hit all three targets. - didn't score. Russian managed to hit the descending debris of the thrid drone. Scored one. Chinese team raged quited afterwards.


Heck, in the infantry contest, Russian referee was even caught trying to sabotage Iranian's equipment during their "inspection".

Why would anyone still want to play with the Russians? Those losers were once a superpower? Really?

Has anyone fitted the Rheinmetall 130mm to a tank yet?

Have not heard much about the 130mm after it got released. Interested to know if the old 140mm is still the only fitted upgun option for Western designs or if the 130mm will take that position away from the 140mm.

>>34855701
it's all about propaganda and showing your motherland how great you are, they dont care if anyone calls them out on it

>>34855701
Using APFSDS when everyone else uses HEAT rounds during a shooting competition is just as bad as the stuff Russia is being accused of.

>>34849406
Huh, does anybody know when this pic was taken?
The hulls in the foreground lack the ventilator in between the hatches, implying very early models, but the bogeys being fitted in the background have the updated return roller on the cantilever, rather than directly on top.

>>34855701
>Canceled live broadcast for the final so that no one would find out how fishy they are.
what the fuck are you talking about?

i was watching the live broadcast with everyone
it is archived in youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xST19bG3nA

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>>34852271
The Jagdtiger was truly a marvel of German playground engineering.

>>34856879
The first half wasn't broadcasted. Not until they were sure that Russian team was taking the leading.

>>34858674
>The first half wasn't broadcasted.
stop making shit up

there is only one part

just watch the whole thing

>>34858704
Did I mentioned LIVE?

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this here is the CHORD test gun (CHallenger ORDinance)
It uses an L55 german smoothbore barrel and a british breach.

>>34859018
yes, i watched it live, they did not cut anything

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T-72AMT

>>34859985
>All that extra shit.
>Still mounting Kontact-1.
Whoever designed that had some messed up priorities. Heavy ERA is a must for modern T-72 packages.

>>34860695
It's NOZH, not Kontakt-1.

>>34856699
it's dated October 43, bottom right.

>>34861864
Or probably August cos it's American.

>>34856426
>>34855701
ex tanker (leo) here
i cant speak for russian tanks but hitting shit with HEAT or APFSDS isnt much different (up to a certain distance ) so why is this a big deal?

>>34862203
Your gunner didn't set his FCS for APFSDS when firing HEAT. And 125mm HEAT rounds have a more pronounced ballistic arc than the 120mm contemporaries.

>>34862711
>Your gunner didn't set his FCS for APFSDS when firing HEAT.
fair enough but what stopped the chinks from doing it?

>>34859862
>german smoothbore barrel and a british breach

IIRC the gun on the Chally II uses a two-part sliding breach, with a forward block acting as the obturation ring and the other acts as a more traditional breach block that allows the cannon to be fired, all of this on account of the British seperating the charge and projectile. Does this mean that the brits will be sticking with two-piece ammo even if they change over to a smoothbore gun?

>>34862734
They wanted the more accurate, ballistically flatter shot. As you would if you were in a shooting competition.

>>34862799
yes i get that but i thought they wanted to use it and the slavs said no and they had to use wrong FCS settings or something because if they just use the proper settings it shouldnt be on the "look what unfair shit the slavs did" list because it just takes away an unfair advantage from the chinks

>>34862825
You are confusing yourself.

APFSDS are by nature easier to hit targets with, using APFSDS in a shooting competition when everyone else uses HEAT is cheating.

>>34862871
thats what i said

i know why APFSDS is an advantage
but it was listed as if the russians did something bad by taking it away
which is why i thought maybe they didnt allow the chinks any dif FCS settings or something like that but if the chinks just used HEAT as everyone else i dont see why its on the "bad things russia did this year" list

>>34845726
Has the US made any overtures on developing or buying some sort of radar aimed gun/cannon AAA yet? It seems that with the massive proliferation of drones, especially electric drones with next to no heat signature, that there's a big gap in their AA network. The stinger is fuck expensive and won't lockon to a small or electric drone and whilst yes you can always fire an MG at one, that's supremely ineffective if it's 100m up and 500 meters away.

>US Tunguska or Flakpanzer Gepard when?

>>34862887
Because, like most of the list, it's just straw grasping by people who are unhappy 'their team' lost.

>>34862751
>IIRC the gun on the Chally II uses a two-part sliding breach, with a forward block acting as the obturation ring and the other acts as a more traditional breach block that allows the cannon to be fired, all of this on account of the British seperating the charge and projectile.
Correctamundo.

the CHORD was used as middle ground between the L55 and L30A1E4. It could fire both single and two part ammunition with adaptations

The problem is the CR2 does not have the room to carry 1 piece ammo, that and the tests proved that smoothbores and Rifled guns have their advantage and disadvantages and were pretty equal and counter eachother out.

Problem is the L55 creates more problems for the army than it solves so we'll be sticking with rifled almost indefinitely.

The entire "no more ammo" problem was resolved by getting AWE to manufacture penetrators, BAE to produce SABOTs, and a factory in belgium to produce bag charges.

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post tankfus

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>>34863057
>mfw I fell short from the top 200 in TWO E-100 tournaments in War Thunder

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>>34862924
No, and lasers are even cheaper.

>applied to the Canadian forces
>infantry
>vehicle tech
>armoured soldier

Feel like these were shit tier choices and should have went for some other shit. Scared i will get armoured soldier and get liquefied by some sabot round/atgm in some upcoming war in an older Leopard or worse Coyote. Probably sucks being a tanker, loud as fuck and stuck up in a tank.

>>34862887
Because it is a contest supposed to keep military reality in made. Teams are not only suppoed to show their marksman but also their equipments. Otherwise why would Russian team allowed to use modified T72B3M with T90 FCS and upgraded engine? Same to the Chinese 96 and Indian T90 as well.'

Now back to HEAT and APFSDS, due to worse metallurgy in Sabot making and lack of means to demolish enemy fortification, Russian Armor doctrine heavily rely on HEAT rounds as a mean of infantry support. AFAIK, Russian HEAT rounds actually have a higher accuarcy than their sabots at certain ranges. On the contrary, Chinese seldom uses HEAT in their normal training.

>>34864504
>Want to join the army
>Scared of dying
Just become an army orderly or quartermaster clerk

>>34864949
From what I know, the tank FCS is turned off so the gunner will have harder time hitting with HEAT than APFSDS. The key factor in tank biathlon is engine power, driving skill, gunner sight reticle, gunner skill.

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>>34863057
>1
>5
>5
>m
>m

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>>34864967
>Just become an army orderly or quartermaster clerk

Oh yeah, that never backfires.

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>>34843457
Some art. I like the R35, it's like a somewhat more modern FT-17, and Renault should have continued the line and made a French equivalent to the Wiesel.

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>>34856699
>>34849406
Anyone else notice the welded hulled M32 ARV in the background? Most of the war time M32s were based on A1 cast hull,

Did some googling and found the T5 ARV prototype, looks to be the same vehicle...

>TFW some annon unwittingly found a pic of a unicorn

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>>34850856
Indeed, they did

>>34865867
Holy shit, that's actually it. Very cool stuff.

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man.. fucking naval guns

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>>34867491
>Some of the best tankers in Europe
>More experiance than any other
>Driving some of the deadliest tanks through Normandy
>Shatter allied resistance beneath your treads
>Laugh as you mow down retreating bongs
>Get evaporated by a 16' shell from almost 40km.

That's where the Russians got it; First they tried putting battleship armor on a tank. When that didn't work, they just settled on a battleship gun.

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>>34867514
Got to admire the simplicity of Soviet upgunning.
>Take biggest gun you can find.
>Put on existing chassis.
>Fire in general direction of enemy.

>>34844747

they got lazy here just took avenger turret threw on the strykr with updates capability

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>>34845911
Are you not familiar with the MATV?

>>34847488
Charlie Chaplin once came in 3rd in a CC impersonation contest he anonymously participated in.

>>34850203
To add to this:
Within the last 20 years, there has been a significant shift towards smart ammo, with preprogrammed fuzes and such. This almost invariably makes the most expensive part of the shot the fuze. With greater effects per fuze with larger shells, they end up being cheaper to operate as well (say, using 10 40mm ABHE instead of 15 30mm to clear a trench)

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>>34849397
Nice pic, thanks!
Have a nice view of the Namer's new turret.

>>34856699
It doesn't imply VERY early models, there's only 1 hull MG and no direct vision slits. And as you mentioned the 8" VVSS suspension.
Also the date's in the bottom right corner.

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Bumping best general
What do you think of Jordan's tank upgrade development?

>>34868279
i spy a falcon turret in the back

>>34868360
Yep, and an upgraded Chally 1 and M60 with new optics and a smoothbore 120mm

>>34867433
Those two holes are too big for ATGM alone.

>>34868279

they really do love their export brit armor don't they?

>>34868587
The splatter is characteristic of shaped charges, and these were export cheapo 1970s Soviet weapons with low-precision warheads.

>>34868783
They got it for free, and it's a damned sight better than what they'd have otherwise- Jordan doesn't have oil money like the Saudis.

>>34868853
>and these were export cheapo 1970s Soviet weapons with low-precision warheads.
What does this even mean? Another monkey model meme?

>>34869277
Not monkey models, but in 1973 the Soviets were exporting AT-3a SAGGER and RPG-7 with PG-7 warheads, not the improved AT-3c SACLOS version (or the AT-4 SPIGOT) or the PG-7L.
These 1960s warheads were inefficient (though more than sufficient to punch through an M60 as the image shows), and so leave a much larger hole than later, better missiles which needed better penetration to defeat thicker NATO armor.

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>>34843457
There was an interesting modification of those tans by the Romanians which re-armed them with soviet 45mm guns in an attempt to modernize them. A small amount of them saw action

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http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/india-knocked-out-of-tank-contest-in-russia-after-t-90s-develop-snags/story-TQRNInKysug3ATwr7PK1MM.html

Indian Army on their failure in Tank Biathlon 2017.
>The officers said the main tank’s fan belt broke, while the other failed to perform after its engine oil leaked.
>they acknowledge they are facing problem with T-72 and T-90 radiator.
>India will be spending thousands of crores of rupees on upgrading its T-90 fleet in the coming years
>with more powerful 1,200-1,500 HP modular engines
>The army has an estimated requirement for 2,011 such engines with each likely to cost Rs 5 crore.
>The T-90 fleet will also be equipped with ‘armoured fighting vehicle protection and counter measure systems’ at a cost of around Rs 2,500 crore


what do you think?
in this june, UVZ just confirmed that they are selling 1000 V-92S2 1000 hp engine to India. Those engine will go into India T-72

and now looking like they are Upgrading their T-90 too.

a western style 1200-1500 hp power pack is a huge improvement for the T-90. not to mention APS

>>34870248
By buying new engine that is not V-92S2 type engine, India will simply making their logistic a mess. They already bought V-92S2 for T-72 so it will be the same as their T-90S, they also bought T-90MS that use V-92S2F engine. I think if India wants to upgrade their T-90S engine then V-92S2F is what they should buy.

>>34870301
idian and Russian have not singed any contact on T-90SM upgrade

and i think western styles power pack won't ruin their logistic. They are more logistic friendly than the T-72 T-80 styles

that is why the Armata, Kurganets and Boomerang are design around modern powerpack

>>34849048
>Is there anything that 40mm does that 30mm can't?

Shoot further and hit harder.

>>34869404
Why is that? The copper jet is less focused on the older models?

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>>34850856
I looked it up. Apparently these things could climb up on top of railway carts unassisted. Some versions would pivot turn by adjusting transmission so only parts of the tracks near the central axle touched the ground.

>>34849048
produce a satisfying orgasm

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Anyone know of any sources on how Iraqi armor did in Mosul?

In particular would be interested in differences between the Abrams and T-72 performance. The T-72 performed poorly in Chechnya and seemed to regulated to 2nd line duty in Mosul but the Iraqi gov is buying T-90 so it could not be that bad.

>>34873794
T-72 performed very good in Chechehn 2 though

it all come down to crew competent

>>34871351
Yep. Looser tolerances on the components and assembly allow cheap mass-production, at cost of limited performance. When performance requirements increased so too did production quality and therefore cost.

>>34865867
recovery tanks make me turgid

>>34873953
>it all come down to crew competent
It all came down to commander competence; the crews weren't the ones ordering escorted armored columns into an urban area.

As for Mosul, I'd guess probably both performed similarly. Arabs can't into tank warfare, so really all the comparison is worth is determining who's gonna make more money between the US and Russia for replacements.

>>34870035
You think you could fit a Bushmaster in one?

>>34844917
Flexibility and utility.

In a COIN environment? You don't have to leave it behind, mess with the crews' training by making them into infantry for the deployment, or waste them sitting in the base doing nothing the whole time... you can bring them along and use them against buildings and strongpoints.

That said, how does this compare in terms of price/performance to MML?

>>34877846
Maybe, though turret looks like a tight fit if you don't want to extend it.

>>34849048
More armor penetration from a greater range, but the 40mm has shit ammo capacity and forget about suppressive fire