6.8 SPC vs 6.5 Grendel?

>>34839809
Look at that entry hole, Jesus

>>34839935
That was 6.5 Grendel.

>>34839809
>which one and why
which one for what purpose?
long range shooting?
competition?
versatility?
>what barrel length
see above, you need to be more specific about the question.

>>34840703
Let's assume OP wants to kill coyotes.

>>3484071

Not the other anon but if you need to remove yotes why wouldn't you just use soft point 5.56?

>>34840718
Then the answer is 5.56
If he wanted to move up to deer and hogs then a switch would be justified. 6.8 is good for hunters that want a MSR that trouble free out if the box for under 400 yards. It mostly survives thanks to hunters. 6.5G does fine at those ranges but outclasses 6.8 after 400 and there may be some troubleshooting to be done. The bonus is wolf steel case

>>34840703
I have an extra stripped lower. Assume a barrel at least 16" or longer and a scoped rifle for longer range shooting. I haven't nailed down a use case other than "extra lower and want". Probably coyotes and hogs.

>>34839809
6.5 Grendel with a 16" barrel is a good all around package.

>>34839809
Are foxes considered a pest in your region?
If not, this is use of unnecessary force and a violation of the hunter's code of honor.

How reliable are 6.8 SPC magazines? 6.5 mags aren't the greatest

>>34843015

>Honor
>"Hunting"

Call us back when you're killing animals with your bare hands.

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leave them alone

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>>34839809
.277 Wolverine, 16" or less
It's functionally equivalent to 6.8 SPC, but uses normal 5.56 AR components (i.e., bolts, magazines, and brass) so all you need is a new barrel and some reloading dies and you're all set.

>>34842939
hey Devin

>>34844241
Coyotes are pests in a lot of places because humans have driven of or eliminated their natural predators, same with deer. We have to act as an artificial population control to keep them from exhausting all their resources and subsequently suffering from starvation. So you see, we have to kill them, or they'll die.

>>34839809
Grendel.
>greater max effective range
1100m vs. 550m when comparing the most common storebought ammo, the 123Amax vs the 110 Vmax. 1350m vs 800m when comparing "best in class" ammo, the 123 ELD-M vs the 120 SST. Tested with 18" barrel.
>nearly equal energies at any distance inside 300m
They remain within 100FPE of each other from muzzle to 300m from any barrel length 8-20", at 300m the significantly higher BC of the Grendel means it overtakes it in energy from most barrel lengths and worst-case scenario (light 6.5 bullet vs the 120 SST) it still overtakes it by 500m.
>much MUCH broader range of both factory ammo and aftermarket reloading components
If I want to reload 6.5G I've got my choice of around 3 dozen bullets ranging from 85 to 130 grains in OTM, BSP, varmint HP, FMJ, and monolithic copper hollowpoint. If I want to reload 6.8SPC I've got my choice of about 4 bullets ranging from 95 to 120 grains and they're all either OTM or BSP.
>significantly lower recoil
More efficient case and less powder capacity=less burned powder=less felt recoil

As to what barrel length. Pretty much whatever the fuck you feel like, there is at least one commercially available load that will perform very well for you out of what you want. If you're chasing coyotes specifically, I'd recommend 18" or 20".

>>34843049
Generally worse than 6.5 mags
>6.5 mags aren't the greatest
I've never had a single hangup with my ASC mags, only my C-Products ones.

>>34844310
>functionally identical
>10-12% (200-250fps) slower than 6.8SPC with any given bullet weight
>not able to load anything heavier than 110gr Vmax
Pick one

If you wish to stick with a 5.56 derivative for cheap brass and parts commonality go 6.5MPC

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>>34844535
>not able to load anything heavier than 110gr Vmax
wrong

>>34844588
>roundnose
If I wanted a malfunction clearing practice session I have snap caps though.
Also, how expensive are those? $4 a round? $6 a round?

>>34844596
$1.80/rd
http://www.jbsfirearms.com/product-p/ammo-wlv-175mdws-20ct.htm

>>34844637
Huh. That's nowhere near as bad as I expected.

>>34839809
>>34839935
>>34840521
>>34840703
>>34840718
>>34840742
>>34841087
>>34842939
>>34842996
>>34843015
>>34843049
>>34843826
>>34844241
>>34844310
>>34844421
>>34844468
>>34844495
>>34844508
>>34844535
>>34844588
>>34844596
>>34844637
>>34844668
6.5 Swede

>>34844241
Coyotes are pests in my area and are out of control. They have gotten very brave over the years as well, resulting in the loss of one two of my cats as well as many of my neighbors pets over the years. Fuck coyotes

>>34844739
Fuck you and your milsurp. Doesn't fit in an AR, doesn't do anything 6.5CM or .260rem don't while not fitting in a short-action rifle, and literally nothing with factory detachable magazines is chambered in it.

The 6.8 SPC is supposed to be better for SBRs, but the 6.5 Grendel gives you much, much cheaper ammo options. Bill Alexander says his favorite all-around length for the 6.5 Grendel is 18". There was a shooting times article which claimed that a 123 grain scenar bullet, from a 16" barrel, had comparable drop and drift to a 75 grain OTM 5.56, which sounds like a good balance between performance and compactness, at least within 500m. Wolf steel case wouldn't be that good though.

http://www.alexanderarms.com/media-center

Article is one of the first links, if anyone's interested.

>>34844508
Damn, wasn't the 6.8 supposed to be "speshul forciz ishyoo"? You'd think reliable feeding would be a primary consideration

>>34844867
It was supposed to be, yeah.

SUPPOSEDLY Lancer produced some L5's specifically for 6.8SPC. I've never seen one, or talked to anybody who has. The C-Products mags suck, the Remington mags suck (unsurprisingly), the ASC ones are functional, and I don't know anyone else who makes them.

>>34844535
6.5 MPC is intriguing, but my point in general was that I'm skeptical of cartridges like 6.8 SPC that require all-new mags, bolts, etc. when the primary design consideration of all these 5.56 alternatives is to maintain the logistics benefits of the AR15 FOW by restricting the OAL so that it can fit in an AR15 magwell.
Cartridges like .277 WLV and .300 BLK are good because they provide measurable improvements over 5.56 with a minimum of fuss; cartridges like .264 USA and 7x46mm UIAC are good because they provide dramatic improvements over existing intermediate cartridges without undue increases in system weight (at the cost of requiring entirely new guns to shoot them out of).
Cartridges like 6.8 SPC II and 6.5 Grendel are in an awkward in-between spot because they're only slightly better than heavy 5.56 loads but also barely function in normal AR15s; take for instance LWRC's Six8 carbine, which has a longer magwell and other tweaks to make 6.8 SPC II work in it as reliably as 5.56 works in normal ARs.

>>34844867
As far as I know no US SOF ever even seriously looked into 6.8SPC. They pretty much went straight to .300blk for suppressed and to .308 for LR stuff.

>>34844998
Is supersonic .300 blk basically 7.62x39 in 5.56 case?

>>34845189
No, it's better.
>faster with heavier bullets and less recoil

>>34845189
It has slightly less case capacity than x39 so it's not *quite* there, but whatever's downrange will never know the difference.

>>34845227
Case capacity isn't everything.
>123gr 7.62x39: 2340-2350fps from a 16" barrel
>125gr .300blk: 2370-2420fps from a 10" barrel and up to 2500fps from a 16" barrel
And it has less recoil at the same time BECAUSE it's burning less powder.

>>34839809
>

.22-250

Unless you want to save pelts. But really...? yote pelts are nasty>>34839809
bullshit, just blast -em and toss em in the swamp

>>34844739
>6.5 Swede

Not a bad whitetail cartridge.

Honestly its shit unless you are a real deal reloading nerd. BC is off the charts given that you can get a fast twist barrel

>>34845253
>>34845227
Is there anyone making cheap plinking ammo, like wolf makes for the 6.5 Grendel? If you had an adjustable gas block it sounds like it would be great as a stand in for both an AR and suppressed pistol caliber carbine; you could toss on a can and load some 240gr subsonic like a suppressed .45, then if you need/wanted to, just turn the gas block, take off the can, and load some supersonic ammo, and it'd be good out to ~300m like the 7.62x39. How's the feeding with pmags or USGIs?

>>34845602
Yes, there are literally dozens of companies loading M80 clones or pulls for fairly cheap.

Yes, you can run a switchable or adjustable gas block for shooting both suppressed subs and unsuppressed supers.

The only mag I've had feeding issues with AT ALL has been a Hexmag, and it was just one of the 3 I tested, and then only with very heavy cast subs with a large meplat (NOE 247gr).

>>34845618
Any steel cased?

>>34845699
No.

Real men don't shoot coyotes

>>34844794
>Doesn't fit in an AR,
this is the shittiest reason ive ever heard for anything ever

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6.5 Grendel

>higher Sectional density = better penetration
>higher BC
>Tall bullet means when an expanding bullet expands it expands more (1.5")
>dat 140 gr bullets for higher KE
>its only 14 mags of 6.5 to equate 12 mags of 5.56
6.5 in a 20" barrel is the tits

6.5 is the absolute minimum for heavy/fast/high capacity/long barrel life. Any smaller a diameter and you have to lengthen the bullet and that leads to a whole slew of problems.

6.5-.284 norma, look it up as it has the same Case capacity as .30-06 (68 gr H2O) but that high speed bullet. i Don't know any .22 that can fire 140 gr, although i wish 6.5 had 200 gr rounds

>>34843826
Evolution didn't give us claws.

>>34844867
>Damn, wasn't the 6.8 supposed to be "speshul forciz ishyoo"?
That's also what they said about .458 SOCOM

>>34839809
Sloppy, very fucking sloppy. There was no honor in this. Faggots a fucking butcher.

>>34848603
>20" barrel
get with the times grandpa, we use 10.5 and 14.5 now

>>34849462
>honor
fucking kill yourself

>>34839809
Personally 6.5 Grendel. I was thinking about building a precision AR in that caliber but desu I'll just buy an RPR in 6.5 CM.

>>34849942

I own a 6.5 Creedmoor and really like the .264 bullets available.

But it doesn't seem worth it in 6.5 Grendel

An Ar-15 chambered in 5.56 does 80% of what a Grendel does and everyone already owns an AR-15

All new magazines
new bolt
Cheap wolf ammo is nice but
After dealing with expensive brass on the Creedmoor, don't want to deal with it again on the Grendel.

If I could go back and do it over

.300 blackout for carbine + .308 ar-10 (same bullets for reloading )

6.5 Grendel for carbine + 6.5 creedmoor ar-10 (same bullets for reloading)

The least efficient option

5.56 carbine + any ar-10 in any caliber

>>34844310
BASED.
.277 Wolverine is a badass round. I can't wait until it becomes mainstream

>>34844508
6.8 mags feed fine. Expensive as fuck, but not unreliable at all.

>>34850763
>.300 blackout for carbine + .308 ar-10 (same bullets for reloading )
Are you planning on loading the .300 heavy-for-caliber or the .308 light-for-caliber?
Same question for the 6.5s.

>>34848414 yeah real men fuck them to death

>>34853206
>real men fuck them so good that they stop harassing the local livestock because they're too busy fighting over who gets the D next

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>>34853777
sevens confirms

>>34849462
"honor" is a spook

>>34853777
stop before someone posts the story about the guy that caught a doe and harvested it's ejaculate

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>>34855262
"No."

>>34851396
That's not been my experience. There's a reason I sold my 6.8.
>tfw the only one that worked 100% was my single Barrett mag
>tfw they're $40
No, the LWRC mags weren't out yet

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvR86EwYNGU

>>34845602
>Is there anyone making cheap plinking ammo,
do it yourself

I keep looking at all the numbers and the Grendel looks slightly superior to the SPC. So it comes down to availability of uppers, magazines, ammunition and other support for each round. It sounds like the Grendel is rising while SPC is falling off in the civilian market, but I thought SPC had been adopted by some military units? What's the deal there? Wouldn't want to get stuck with the AR equivalent of .45 GAP.

>>34856326
>I thought SPC had been adopted by some military units?
With USSOCOM, "adopted by some units" often means that a handful of guys pooled their discretionary funds to implement an idea that they thought would be cool (and then dropped it a few missions later in favor of the relatively normal M4s that they get for free)
E.g., the HK416 is "used by Navy SEALs" (occasionally for a very specific kind of mission that it's well-suited for and then stuffed back in the armory to resume gathering dust)

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>>34849926
Absolutely go fuck yourself

>I believe a heavier bullet with a high twist rate will make up for lack of length.

Stoner designed 5.56 with a long thin barrel so's to cool off quicker and for velocity for that sweet hydroshock and steel penetration unlike m855 and shit M4s

>>34858606
>Stoner designed 5.56 to shoot a tiny bullet really fast because he was an airplane nerd who wanted to minimize system weight as much as possible
ftfy

>>34852958
For the 6.5 creedmoor I have 120 gr nosler ballistic tips in bulk and sierra 140 gr. SGK for the occasional batch of Hunting rounds.

I've read that heavy 6.5 creedmoor 140 gr. Wears your barrel out faster but I don't know if that's a fact.

6.5 CM already wears your barrel out faster then a .308 barrel, so I expect I will have to replace it around 5,000 rounds.

>>34856326
>Wouldn't want to get stuck with the AR equivalent of .45 GAP
That's every existing double-stack "5.56 alternative", though.
They're all designed to try and squeeze the ballistics of a longer cartridge through a AR-15 magwell, and much like the .45 GAP, it sort of works, but not as well as a slightly longer case in a slightly bigger gun would.
What we need is an AR-12½, and when we need it is now.

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Don't shoot coyotes; report them to the proper authorities.

>>34850763
false. a 5.56 doesn't come close to a grendel. a grendel shooting a 123gr at 2550 has more energy at 400 yards than a 77gr mk262 load does at 100 yards.

brass isnt expensive. midsouth is selling hornady brass for 45 dollars per 100, and most people get 10-15 reloads out of a case.

>>34839935
>exit wound

>>34864738
I'd give that autistic dog a sexit wound, iykwim

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My Grendel has been amazingly accurate for me. Odin Works 20 inch barrel, and factory headspaced bcg.

>>34866294
headspaced bolts are a meme
an ar's bolt and barrel extension are either in-spec (i.e., headspaced) or not

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>>34839809

Killing animals really bothers me for some reason. If it's to eat or if it's to get rid of asshole pests like boars it's ok. But anything else really rustles my jimmies. And I can't hurt a fox since it's my spirit animal.

Does /k/ know this feel?

>>34843015
>foxes
that's a coyote and they're considered pests pretty much everywhere.

>>34866384
That's a Coyote... Bastard would raid your chicken coup or attack your doggo, gatos, or you. They fall under pests. Also, Coyote pelts can make some cool stuff.

>>34866373
It makes a minute difference, which matters when overall consistency is what you are going for. Faxon did a video with InRange about it a couple of days ago that will go into more depth.

>>34866384
That's nice. The animal in the OP is a coyote.