Gun Storage

Currently all of my guns (about $3500 worth of firearms) are just in my bedroom with no protection other than lousy hiding spots that are mainly just to store out of the way rather than hide. Im very worried that when I'm at work all day someone might break in and easily steal everything I have with nothing but a crowbar or even just by kicking down the door and looking around for a few minutes. I truly think that good hiding spots is the only real way to keep your shit safe or even multiple levels of security like a safe inside of a safe and so on, just making shit difficult for them.

Just remember most safes are just there to keep honest people honest and children out of what they shouldn't be in. Unless you are buying industrial grade safes, just aim for one that can hold its own against fire damage. If you plan on bolting it to the ground you'll only deter thieves a little longer.

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I bought an $80 Stack-On gun cabinet, and it serves me just fine. I went in a road trip this year, and got a call from my roommate when I was away telling me we'd had a break-in. When I got back to the house, I went straight for my cabinet. It was fine, and in front of it was pic related - the knife the thief had tried to pry the cabinet open with, snapped into three pieces. My guns were just fine, and right where I left them.

Most burglars aren't the team from The Italian Job - they aren't bringing angle grinders with them and they aren't taking the risk of standing out in broad daylight loading safes into their vans. Most are tweakers or teenage dindus looking to get in and out fast with a couple of things to pawn. My roommate left his $300 laptop on the kitchen table, and it got taken. My $4000 worth of firearms stayed right where I left them because it was too much trouble to do more than spend 30 seconds trying to pry the cabinet open with a cheapshit kitchen knife to try to get to them. Even the smallest barrier to entry will stop most crooks.

>>34838219
A bolted safe is going to be more than enough to deter them, especially if you invest in a security system
>inb4 your guns are your security system
It's not for you, its for your shit so the police get called and turn up in like 30 minutes making a time constraint

>>34838282
>>34838282
Agreed but anyone with the intention of robbing may have the tools and know-how to bust a safe open. And yes paired with a home security system its a great deterrent.

>>34837867
I don't live in a country with sane firearms laws & often the determined criminals are the ones with badges. Have a Stack-on safe basically to conform to our convoluted storage laws. I don't believe in placing all my eggs in one basket. All I can say is that it saved me. Sorry I can't be more detailed, the Canadian Gestapo has an active investigation arm looking for these kinds of things. Sometimes having a sacrificial firearm is beneficial. Also having remote storage (not on location) can sometimes be a good idea. Tell no one not even the spouse or bestest friend.

Here is the #1 rule about safes.

If someone wants your shit bad enough, they will get it. An offense will beat a defense given enough time, resources and willpower. Don't get complacent. Your guns are still high-theft items, so don't go blabbing about them to every swinging dick you know.

Focus on a safe that you can bolt to the floor and protects against fire damage. That way you can keep your important docs in it too.

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Be careful moving your safe i manage to get my leggs trapped under my safe while moving it in and hand to yell for help and have 2 people lift it off me.

is it safe to store ammo in your safe?

Also what are people doing to keep away moisture in their safes? i just threw a bunch of silica packs on the floor but i feel like i need something more substantial ?

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Safes are a delaying measure, not a defense.

>>34837867
>Also, how do you store your guns?

Cheap shit sheet metal gun safe, because it is upstairs and this is a rental house. Didn't want to go through the issue of lugging a heavy safe upstairs only to have to bring it back down a few years later.
Easiest way to comply with storage laws here as well. I use a (rather well ventilated) sheet metal office cabinet for ammo too.

Someone with a prybar would have little issues getting this open in 10-15 minutes, I wager. And a grinder would go through the sides easily.
But the fact I live in a dead end street with neighbors all around means that someone tends to take notice of things which appear "off".

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Closet with this

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>>34837867
Not mine but I'll help

>>34837867
Find a local safe company in your area. Ask them if they have any used b-rate or c- rate safes. Or tl15 or tl30x6 safes.

If they dont have anything that will work for you, get a Sturdy Safe with at least their "most popular" package.

If you are paying 1500-2000 for a rsc rated safe, your are jusr buying a pretty box that can be broken into in 5 min with a axe. And less time with a grinder.

>>34837867
In my area the kinds of thieves that break into houses and steal guns (it doesn't happen often, it's a nice area) just grab what's in plain sight and get out as quick as they can. Bedside guns, plastic gun cases under the bed or in the closet, jewelry, things like that. So one of those shit safes with thin metal walls would keep them out.
I bought a safe that was about $1000 made by Liberty. It's not the best, but it will keep out nosy kids (of which I have none, but visitors count) and smash and grab thieves.

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>>34838752

>>34838718
Goldenrod dehumidifier

>>34837867
You just have to put down the money for a good one. There's no way around it. It's buy once, cry once fortunately.

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>>34839753
Never been a fan of those. They just slightly heat the air inside the safe, causing the RH to decrease a bit due to expansion, but the moisture is still there.

>>34838718
I prefer something like pic related. It actually removes the moisture from the air. Sure you have to dump it out occasionally and add absorbent material to it, but for me it's only about once a year. Can be found at wal mart, lowes, home depot and just about any store like that. It's not that big. A little bigger than a coffee cup.
Oh, and GET THE UNSCENTED ONE. I screwed up and got the fresh scent and I ended up using it in my basement and buying the unscented one for my safe.

Ive got my guns insured so i guess i dont really worry too much. Have my handguns in a small box safe and the longguns all have trigger/cable locks on them to stop others from using them when i am there

>>34839871
This would not be enough for me. Some of my guns I've had for 20 years. Some my dad gave me, and some I inherited from him when he died.

>>34839871
My insurance dropped considerably when i installed my safe.

>>34838424
16 year old detected

>>34837867
>most gun safes that are under a few thousand dollars are complete shit,
wtf is with the safe market in the US?
or rather, wtf kind of safes are you trying to buy? walk-in closets for 30+ rifles, handguns, and 10k+ rounds of ammo?
>thin metal walls, nothing but drywall inside
wut

I bought a safe - which is in compliance with my countries storage laws, usually that means it costs extra - for 500€. Holds 5 long guns, probably 3 handguns in the handgun part of it (laws etc).

I don't know what you mean by "thin" walls... mine are like an eighth of an inch thick of (hardened, I assume) steel. Handgun compartment is double that. Door is locked on all four sides by one or two one inch deadbolts.
Yes of course you can get that open given the right tools and infinite time, but it'll be long time and very annoying until you have cut a hole big enough to fiddle a gun through.
Empty weight is well over 100kgs, plus the guns in there, also its almost 6ft tall. You're not going to just grab that thing, carry it down 6 flights of stairs, and throw it in your convieniently waiting van.

That just ain't happening.

Especially when its standing right opposite to 1.5k€ worth of computer hardware.

>>34837867

if you want the real scoop poke around here

http://www.amsecusa.com/

look at the TL ratings

and decide how much you want to spend

>>34838259
>I bought an $80 Stack-On gun cabinet,
A buddy lost his keys to his stack on rifle safe. It had tubular locks on it. Like a coke machine. I have a tubular lock pick but they put "spools" in with pin tumblers and it gave false readings to the picks.

He called a locksmith who drilled out the locks, dulling 3 expensive drill bits and it took him over an hour.

so, yeah. Decent safes for the money. It's better than putting them in the closet under you dirty socks.

>>34840379
Amsec
Mesa
Diebold
Graffunder
All good safes

I've never bothered to add it up carefully, but I'd say a rough estimate is that I have around $70-80K worth of guns, not counting ammo, accessories, etc.

I'm a paranoid freak about security.

>Motion activated lighting and cameras outside with off site server.
>I have a $12,000 alarm system on my house. It didn't cost me that much since I did most of the work myself, but that's what it would have priced out at retail.
>My door locks cost about $200 each. All exterior doors and some interior doors have two of them on it.
>All entry doors and some interior doors are hardened, including the frames.
>Windows all have at least one extra lock and security film.
>The more vulnerable windows (ground level) have interior bars that you can't see from the outside unless I open the blinds/curtains.
>I have a safe room that's basically a large walk-in fireproof, bullet proof and bomb proof vault (up to certain size devices). It has it's own alarm system separate from the rest of the house. It has air filtration with hidden intakes for positive pressure.
>Inside that room I have six fire-resistant safes for the guns and other valuables.

Layered security is a good idea.

There's other security I don't mention, because you know, paranoid.

>>34840525
If it took a locksmith over a hour to get into a stack-on cabinet, that's a POS locksmith. A good locksmith could have one open, the lock replaced, and be gone in about 15 minutes.

>>34840201
That isnt a safe, in the usa thay would at best be classed as an RSC

A real UL listed tl15 ( tool resistance 15 min) or a tl30x6 ( tool resistance 30 min six sides. ) is madr og walls thay are plate steel and concrete composite that is 3"+ thick.

>>34841421
15min?
Fuck i have opend a stack on in 30seconds with a prybar.

>>34841466
Yeah, but I'm talking about ENTIRE time frame. Showing up, taking the tools into the house, assessing the situation, chucking up a bit and drilling it, going back out to the truck to get a replacement lock and installing it then leaving.

I've seen locksmiths who can do all that with no damage to the safe whatsoever. TOTAL time on scene is about 15 min.

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>>34838718
What happened to your leggs tho? Did they get messed up?

>>34838718
You can get reusable dessicants that you microwave to dry out or plug into a wall socket so they dry themselves out.

>>34840201
As someone who sometimes had to sell safes, I can tell you that that's just a large heavy filing cabinet.

You want thicker walls. An eight of an inch of steel is not much at all. If it isn't bolted down to the ground, you could literally drag it to a window and toss it down to the ground. If it doesn't break open, you can then just load it and cut into it at your leisure.

Shitty bolts can also be cut off, too.

>>34837867
Can anyone recommend a good safe for an apartment? Can't bolt anything down, but want something decent.

>>34842494
I would also like to know this. Perferably something small and more cheaper = more better

>>34838718
I have a dehumidifier in the room with my safe that collects moisture into a basin I that empty out. I also use a rechargable dehumidifier inside the safe itself, and I just put weatherproof foam tape along the closing edges of the door. I also keep all my weapons in their waterproof carrying cases, with a silica packet in each. No issues so far, but you can probably just do like two of those and be fine.

>>34838451
Sure. Your average black teenage cat burglar isn't going to be able to open even a cheap safe. Anyone with the skill probably isn't interested in your guns.

>>34842494
>>34842554
Again, my 8-gun Stack-On serves me just fine.

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My ammo locker. This helped clean off the top of my safe and now I have to buy more ammo.

>>34837893
Having $3,500 in guns and ammo, and not buying at least a $900 safe and/or throwing some alarms and cameras on your residence.
Wow.

>>34840024
Recalibrate your age detector. It's off by a factor of 3.

1. don't tell anyone you have guns at your place
1.5 Hide your shit
2. if possible bolt down the safe
3. fire ratings are useless. They help 1% of the time.
4. expensive safes are a waste of money. Buy gun insurance and a cheap safe/locker instead.
5. Don't live in a shithole


Really though, traditional safes are a waste of money.

>>34840525
If someone wanted to rob the thing, they would just cut open the sheet metal sides instead of trying keep everything intact for reuse.

>>34841421
Do you live in a shitty drywall/sheetrock house or brick?

>>34846649
Even a cheap ass $100 Stack On gun cabinet greatly makes a difference between locked up guns and "hidden" guns. It literally takes seconds to toss a place.

>>34841421
Impressive. What do you do for a living to get that kind of collection and security set up?

>>34840525
Dumbass that's because you're trying to open the safe without damaging it, compromising its structural integrity. Thief don't give a fuck.

>>34841531
Hey mufuggin retard, do you have any tools in your house? Thieves will use your tools to open your shit dumbass. Garage full of stuff will be used to open your rooms and anything else you have in there.

>>34840525
The weird part is, I actually had left my Leatherneck Tanto out on top of my drssser, and the dumbass thief snapped his cheap kitchen knife into three pieces without ever thinking to steal my $75 D2 steel knife or use it to pry my gun cabinet open.

Well, I guess if he was smart, he'd be in a different line of work.

>>34847067
Brick house. The hardened rooms have wall reinforcement that I won't go into the specifics. The walk-in vault has reinforced concrete walls, floors and ceiling.

>>34847690
Oh gee, I never thought of that. I'm so glad you're here to set me straight.
Yep, I invested tens of thousands of dollars in guns and tens of thousands more in security and it never occurred once that they might use my own tools against me. Of course I never once took five minutes to consider securing my investment in tools.

Even if they did manage to get to my tools, it would require a jackhammer and plasma torch to get into my walk-in vault. Even then it would take a bare minimum of an hour to get in and that's only if they were pros and knew exactly where to enter and exactly what they were doing. Between the alarm and cameras, with backup power and comms, they wouldn't have that much time available to them before they were interrupted.

I don't understand why some people are so juvenile with the name calling and assumptions on the internet. I've worked for 30 years in fields directly pertaining to law enforcement, weapons and physical security. My physical security precautions aren't just slapped together by a redneck with a welder, rivet gun and some recycled tin.

>>34847221

You don't have to be in a rush. I'm in my 50s now and I've just accumulated stuff as time has gone by.

I have my own tastes and I don't keep a gun if it doesn't serve a practical purpose. But I will BUY just about any gun if a screaming deal comes along. I'll wait for a good opportunity then I'll flip that cheap gun for a profit and use the money to buy more ammo, or a gun I actually like. It just builds over time.

I've worked in military, law enforcement and physical security my entire life.

I don't know everything about every gun out there, but I like to be informed about the guns I own and use. Same goes for security. I've done enough consultations for enough people and businesses to be able to spot a security vulnerability and I've used that experience to slowly plug the holes in my own security.

When it comes to security, there's no end game. I'm always learning more and finding little things to keep improving it.

If you want to get a lot of stuff, small and do what you can at the time. Just think long term and don't be pressured to get there NOW. Same goes for security. Do what you can, when you can.

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>>34848722
could you recommend a decent biometric handgun safe that isnt stupid expensive?

or are they even worth the hassle?

Ok bois I used to associate with some bad fellows and the true method of career criminals who steal from gun safes is to put the safe on a dolly and drive away with it. One guy can move 1000 pounds with a dolly that has straps, weight past that depends on how bad ass they are. Two guys can just tip over a gun cabinet and carry it out. Anywho they are mostly in prison now and their ex wives chase black dudes. Bolt it to the floor

Is it even worth getting a cheap Stackon if I'm not going to bolt it in?

>>34838720
>CAT work boots
Do you like those?
I wanted some but they don't make them large enough for me.

>>34848820
As others have said already, a safe isn't worth a damn if it isn't bolted down.

Biometrics are... not great. There are known flaws/exploits with just about every electronic lock out there, with perhaps the exception of something like the newest version of the Kaba Max X-10 that they use for vaults containing top secret govt documents.

Go with something that has, or can be retrofitted with, a good quality mechanical combination lock. Something like an S&G 6730 can be manipulated open by an expert, given enough time, but is still a good quality and reliable combination lock that will foil 99.9 percent of burglars. There are manipulation-proof locks, but they are a lot more pricey. That SG is not expensive and can be added to most standard gun fire safes.

Rule of thumb, if it uses a battery and has push buttons to open, or just scans a finger, don't rely on it. And when it comes to safes, you tend to get what you pay for. Or at least, if it's cheap, it's CHEAP.

Handgun "safes" really aren't anything more than a child-resistant locking cabinet for a gun. They aren't much of a theft deterrent for anyone but a smash and grab burglar who doesn't have much time AND has no idea what he's doing.

>>34848951
>Is it even worth getting a cheap Stackon if I'm not going to bolt it in?

If that's all you can afford, then by all means man, buy that cabinet. Bolt it down securely and get your guns locked up. It's better than nothing, but it's about the lowest level of security you can get. It'll keep a child out of it, and it'll keep a burglar out of it if he's inexperienced and doesn't know what he's doing. A burglar who knows what he's doing MIGHT not bother trying to jimmy it open if he's pressed for time (like if an alarm is going off) so it does have at least some value.

But even a stupid burglar with no time can pick up a Stack-on and take it with him if it's not bolted down, because it lets him know there's probably something in there he'll want. Even in a rental apartment there's usually a way you can bolt it down without having to pay a big repair bill. You might not be able to put it where you want it, but with some ingenuity you can probably find a place where you can bolt it down. Maybe fix the holes with some spackle before you move out.