Submarines

>>34837772
Also, why do US submarines have waist torpedo tubes rather than bow?

>>34837772
Probably because it's one of the few attack subs that have VLS tubes.

>>34837819
But early flight Los Angeles class did not have VLS and only had four. The Permit and Thresher class also only had four but those are older. But then the Skipjack before had six? It seems strange.

Also the Yasen class has VLS and 8 tubes, several older Soviet subs have similar setups. And the new Type 093 Chinese subs have 6 tubes and VLS.

>>34837772
Seawolf-class subs have oversized tubes so they can launch cruise missiles and other missile based munitions not in regular service with the US Navy and a hedge against future munition size increases.

Its the literal reason why its so oversized compared to the regular 533mm.

US ships are built around decades of peacetime use

Armaments are always the first thing to be cut in such a situation

>>34837848
What kind of cruise missiles does the US have that would require 660mm? Even the 533mm can launch Tomahawks.

>>34837856
But other navies see much less use than US subs.

I guess my real question is if there are benefits to having more than four torpedo tubes in an age where you don't have fire a spread of torpedoes to hit something.

>>34837846
The Yasen is fucking enormous compared to the LA or Virginia. That said, my assumption is the designers intention was for the VLS to be a larger part in any sort of anti-shipping salvo. The anti-ship Tomahawk was still a thing when VLS was added to the LA (and soon will be again). Four tubes would be fine for fighting other subs. And the LA having 4 isn't really that different from it's contemporaries, the Trafalgar had 5.

>>34837846

Space on a submarine is limited. US subs, especially the Virginia class, mount very large sensors rather then more tubes.

>>34837819
And lots of this. Rather then attacking surface targets with tube launched torpedoes or missiles, VLS launched missiles are used.

This is a very reasonable trade off, as locating a target is the hard part and a attack plan involving more then 4 torpedoes at once is very rare.*

>>34837846

The 688's were made to kill Delta's and Typhoon's. That takes finding them and catching them, not maximum tubes.

*But more common for China or Russia, whom might want to try and engage a USN carrier group.

>>34837789
Waist Torpedo tubes free up more room in the bow for a better multi spectral sensor array (radar/sonar/hydro) and the drawbacks to the torpedo shots is minimal/zero.

>>34837772
>Why do most modern US submarines only have four 533mm torpedo tubes?
Guided torpedoes. Rewind the clock back to the '50s (when Skipjack, Skate, etc were designed, the last classes to have 6 tubes), Guided torpedos existed, but had either limited range, maneuverability, payload, size, or all four. Plus, torpedoes aren't exactly cheap anyway, so the US' stockpiles of WW2-era weapons would almost assuredly be called into action. The thing about unguided torpedoes is that you kind of need to fire them in volleys to stand a good chance at hitting things. After the Navy fully switched over to the Mark 48, they realized that very rarely would more than one or two torpedoes ever be shot at a time, so to save weight, they ditched two of the tubes.

Some old Soviet subs are undergoing 'deep modernization'. The ones that still can be used and has 650mm tubes are getting upgraded so they can fire Kaliber missiles.

>[Follow-up: On December 8, Victor III-class nuclear-powered submarine "Obninsk" successfully launched a cruise missile from a submerged location in the Barents Sea towards the Chizha Test Range, according to a Northern Fleet spokesperson.]
>08.12.2014 (13:00)
>Aтoмнaя пoдвoднaя лoдкa Ceвepнoгo флoтa «Oбнинcк» ycпeшнo выпoлнилa cтpeльбy кpылaтoй paкeтoй

>>34837971
Good insight

>>34837772
With extremely clever Torps like mk. 48, salvo fire is unnecessary.
Seawolf tubes were a huge against future bigger torps and more likely missiles.
>>34837789
The best place for a spherical sonar array is the bow because it has the largest unobstructed field of view. Bigger arrays are more sensitive, and more powerful transmitters. Waist mounted tubes don't really have many drawbacks.
>>34837846
Yasen is a purpose built SSGN, it's slated to replace the Oscars. It's humongous compared to any SSN. The Russians want it as a platform to threaten CBGs so there is an emphasis on throw weight.
Virginias and LAs with VLS fall between SSN and SSGN.
Astute, for example, has more tubes because it has no VLS. There is a school of thought that salvo weight will make a comeback with supercavitating torpedoes, and long range standoff torpedoes, and it's useful for minelaying, but space is at a serious premium.

>>34838768
Hedge* dang fonbosting