US Army Seeks a New Battle Rifle for Piercing Advanced Body Armor

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>>34802674
damn that rifle was so sick in Battlefield 3. Slayed so many noobs in the beta.

>>34802674
Stop giving the army money.

Is there any non-tungsten ammunition that reliably defeats level 4 plate? I don't think so, at least not anything that would be typically carried by an individual soldier.

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>>34802725
This. I have an idea to save the US loads of money, only spend money buying weapons and gear for the Marines. This way the Marines finally have what we need and after we take a country, the Army can waltz in to do stuff like deal with IEDs, repair bridges, torture civilians, etc.

>>34802674
Just adopt 6.5 Carcano

>>34802725
Arm the coast guard the most

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In response to all of the 556 vs 762x51 threads I am finally proud to say
>if 556 is so good why doesn't the military use it

>>34802832
They do and they will continue to do so.

The military has been testing AR replacements for decades now, and nothing fucking changes. We'll use ARs in 5.56 until laser weapons or whatever the future holds for us that isn't conventional guns and cartridges.

>>34802881
>We'll use ARs in 5.56 until laser weapons or whatever the future holds for us that isn't conventional guns and cartridges.

Magic wands.

>>34802674
>People thing battle rifle means replacing the M4
When will this meme die?

>>34802982
Well, it might mean replacing the upper.

Seriously: The military will probably just swap out the upper/barrel of their existing stock for 7.62x51 and be done with it.

>>34803002
You don't own an AR.

>>34802956
ar15 chambered in avada kedavra

>>34802674

Didn't they try switch out the Army's rifle...what four-five years ago and just decided to stay with the M4? Cause the Army decided to switch out the test ammo late in the testing?

>>34803002
No guns detected.

>>34803002
go buy a gun and do this. Make sure to put your face as close as possible to the sights to aquire a better target picture.

>>34803002
assuming this isn't bait, how does one fit a 7.62 sized mag into a 5.56 sized hole?

>>34803094
Magic.

>>34802674
Give the guys green tip rounds or whatever

>>34803002

Was getting caught a part of your plan?

>>34803113
They already do. It's standard issue.

>>34803115
This is the only time I have ever laughed at that canned rehash of a joke.

>>34803113
>>34803122

oh boy this circle
>M855 is a shit manstopper
>'we needa new rifle!'
>trials last 15 years
>ends up getting a new bullet
>'problem solved'

repeat over and over

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Pic related.

Update the lower to have a collapsible stock, make a gas block with a bayo lug, maybe change the barrel to a chrome lined one instead of a ceramic one.

>>34803048
kek (you)

>>34802674
just go scar 17

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>>34803002
hello Mr. newfriend noguns, similar to pic related, you cannot jam a .308 into a standard ar15 lower receiver. You could certainly build some sort of single shot .308 contraption based off an ar15 lower, but that is no good to the military :(

So what kind of penetration do 5.56x45/5.45x39 and 7.62x39 have against modern american and russian and so on military body armor? Do you need penetration to incapacitate or kill a soldier? What kinds of rounds do militaries use against body armor in general?

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>>34803302
>Collapsible stock
>AR platform
>Gee, why doesn't everyone do this?

>>34803671
5.56 and 5.45 can penetrate NIJ level 3 armor, but they are stopped by NIJ level 4 ceramic armor. 7.62x39 might be able to penetrate a level 3 plate, if it was some sort of specialized, light-for-caliber round that was moving ultra fast, and you were shot at close range. Other than that, level 3 and level 4 will both stop 7.62x39. Not sure about Russian armor. Getting hit while wearing armor will certainly hurt, and can sometimes break ribs but it will save your life. Even plate carriers with side plates in the cumberbunds leave openings though, they can only really protect your vitals. Armor isn't an end all-be-all for protection. If you are shooting enough at a guy in armor, you will kill the shit out of him. You can still even score one hit kills if properly aimed.

>>34803302

get rid of the fucking quad rail for some mlok aswell

>>34803800

LMT SOPMOD or B5

feggit

>>34803815
So if you were an insurgent in some middle-eastern shithole and you were firing at some random western soldier equipped with modern equipment should you still shoot center mass despite the improbability of penetration? Surely it does more to punch a bullet through his limbs or his head than just hit him with a sledgehammer in the chest? Most insurgents shoot a couple of times and relocate unless if they have a huge numerical advantage with an established killzone, right?

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>>34802674
>308 to penetrate advanced armor
Ok...
>16-20 inch barrel
No.

>>34802725
When will we either privitize the military or have system of state militias CSA style.

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Wasn't 6.8 spc designed specifically to replace the 5.56 while still allowing for controllable recoil and high capacity mags(30 instead of 24 or whatever weird number for 6.5 grendel)? You know, like an assault rifle? There's a reason why we replaced battle rifles a long time ago.
>soldiers aren't sniping each other like on blood gulch
>soldiers wan't to carry more ammo to stay in the fight for longer
>soldiers don't want to have to reset their shoulder after mag dumping 7.62 in an "oh fuck" moment
>etc
Why does the Army waste so much money on the dumbest of things? Just to get nothing done.

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>>34802881
Doubtful the Army is going to replace the M4 fully. More than likely it's going to become a nebulous squad position where one guy gets it.

They should just paint an M110 black and call it a day.

>>34802674
why not just use a scar H if I can get a scar 17 so should the soldiers come on FN

>>34802775
The Marine's fighting prowess comes from their anger. A lot of that anger comes from not getting the stuff they need, and it feeds into their willingness to fuck shit up that makes the Marines so combat effective. If you pamper them they lose that edge.

And if you aren't memeing, the Marines don't assault whole countries. They can take a city at most, but they lack the raw manpower and armor to single-handedly take on nations larger then Luxembourg. While they could certainly do with getting some of the shiny toys the Army gets, they straight up don't have the manpower to replace the them.

>>34802775
Bait.

>>34802825
Kek
In all seriousness, I would love to see a BR in a quasi intermediate caliber from a century ago.
>tfw no 6.5 Jap semiauto DMR
Nambu-chan, pls awaken and design once more.

>>34803889
Limbs and head are smaller targets with limbs largely being thought of as inferior potential targets since you're only disabling that particular limb as opposed to braining your subject or filling his torso with lead, even if the target was wearing body armor you'd still shoot center mass for ease of shot, only aiming for the head if the target in question is within a certain range.

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>>34802775
Ya give the Marine too much money and they just start finding more expensive ways to get killed during training.

>military switches to 7.62
>so does the civilian market
>anti gun politicians notice this
>7.62 is now for military only
>5.66 market dies off because no government backing
>everyone is no guns now

>>34803946
>CSA style

>not Swiss Style

CSA was a failure, those militias were largely useless when it came to actually defending Atlanta or South Carolina.

>>34803946
>state militias CSA style
Imagine the band of united independent armies deployed on behalf of the US:
>most northern states well equipped and supplied with modern weapons ect
>pretty much all southern armies 10 to 20 years behind, due to being poor as fuck

Kind of like the Union and Confederates all over again, but fighting for common causes.

>>34804772
Just no

>>34804817
Sounds like an exaggeration between the army and marines

>>34804838
prove me wrong

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Still wondering why the 6.8 spc isn't being discussed...

>>34802775
I hate pictures like this.

>>34804971
what about 6.5 grendel?

>>34804350
Thanks 9/11
For making BROWN a fucking requirement

>>34804719
underrated btfo

>>34804971
>>34805669
Because the Army tender specifies 7.62x51mm. They don't want a new round for this ""interim"" rifle.

>>34805668
Especially since it was the Brits who were know for affixing bayonets like madmen.

>>34804971
>>34805669
Because why the hell would you introduce yet another (non-NATO) calibre into your logistics, when you could just use the readily available GPMG/MMG ammunition?

>>34804113
>>soldiers aren't sniping each other like on blood gulch
Problem is that Afghanistan had someof these extended engagements that were just beyond the effective reach of 5.56 - and they'd be just out of reach of those specialist calibres too.
>>soldiers wan't
Jesus man, learn English.

>>34802674
Looking at the requirements, specially the part that states that the rifle must be already in the market, the logical option would be the FN SCAR, but seeing how things have been going lately, sig will win the contract with a rifle that months latter will be discovered to be a potential danger to the user.

>>34805839
Only if it hits the ground too hard, and what are the chances of that happening in the military?

>>34805839

Nah, it'll be HK who wins because germans know how to sell our own shit back to us at higher prices.

>>34805864
After the G36 fiasco they are in a rain of fire, the 417 has cough some flak too, they only managed to push their shit all over Europe because they were in bed with some politicians, apparently this program has something to do with an HK salesman, but it was before they started having troubles

>>34802711
wat, they had the m110 in beta?

>>34805935
there was the mk11 mod 0, which is the precursor of the m110

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>>34803671
Nothing without tungsten HMA/tungsten carbide core will penetrate modern ceramic riffle plate. With tungsten one like M995 they can do up to 100m. XSAPI stops M995.

Also unpopular opinion: body armor is overrated. Plates are too small

>>34804971
6.8 is not a nato caliber. Also 6.8 drops like a rock after 100 yards or so.

Also

>wants to switch to a standard rifle in 7.62 nato
>realizes that carrying 210 rounds of 5.56 is better than 100 rounds of heavier 7.62
>realizes 5.56 is superior for urban engagements within 400 yards
>decides to just stick with the 5.56 ars

Just start fielding the mk262 load for better long range accuracy and lethality

>>34804971
Because it sucks
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/04/04/not-so-special-a-critical-view-of-the-6-8mm-spc/
Unless used for its specific purposes: increasing terminal effects from carbine at CQC distances.

>>34806113
its not an opinion. Body armour's abiity to reduce casualties and fatalities has been extensively studied, and it works fucking well. Piles of data analyzed by scientists > your cursory layman appraisal of body armour size vs. effectiveness.

>>34805890
417 won CSASS contract though. BTW why do army need yet another 7.62x51 rifle program again?

>>34806137

Last I heard the funding for the CSASS was cut for the new budget.

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>>34806133
Ability to reduce casualties and fatalities fighting against sandniggers. When your flow of casualties is minuscule, medivac is available and one side never losses battles and is routed from battlefield. Sandniggers yes. But this muh armor pricing rifle is supposed to be wunderweapon for peer conflict lol.

Think about it. If you sandnigger plate carrier would not save from angry marines even with only M4 carbines. They just shoot you again.

>>34806137
for the same reason they ran the joint combat pistol program (and previously, the future handgun system), the individual carbine program, the advance combat rifle program, the XM8 trials....

To justify their budget, sucks that this time manufacturers wont be bringing nothing new to the market, a new batch or modern battle rifles would have been cool.

>>34806160
absolutely flawless logic, and English skills as well. I just can't argue against that. I admit defeat! Body armour is truly useless, I shall go inform all of the militarys in the world how dumb they are.

>>34805976
I remember the mk11 but definitely didnt think it had an m110
>calle

>>34806169
You should inform militaries to stop fighting sandniggers first.

2 rounds of 7.62 Real NATO > ~5 rounds of 5.56 PissWeak.

This is the reason for the sudden change in policy. Barring more expensive tungsten rounds, the bigger bullet with more energy will crack ceramic plates faster and be more likely to get through within a few successive hits. Even then, with specialized penetrators it may have a better chance of damaging extra tough, extra thick plates of the future better than a smaller round.

People who are complaining that the increased weight and recoil over 5.56, the lesson we learned from the Last War™, are committing precisely that one cardinal sin; they are still preparing for the previous conflict and being woefully unprepared for the next. Perhaps intelligence knows more about what other countries are doing with powered exoskeletons in secret, more secret than the American program anyway. Perhaps this info shows they're a lot further ahead than anticipated and heavy personal armor is going to become a serious problem in the future.

At that point it is go big or go home in a bodybag. 60 rounds of 7.62 NATO or you're carrying a peashooter.

imo this should be the base of the new rifle
https://pof-usa.com/revolution/
complete uppers and bcgs supplied as is.
milspec lowers that eliminate the ambi features but retain the key features of an AR lower, shipped with the prestaked anti-tilt buffer.

all that would be required is the armourer to swap the lower parts out and click the new uppers into it, using the original charging handles, grips and stocks

>>34806215
>the bigger bullet with more energy will crack ceramic plates faster and be more likely to get through within a few successive hits.
Considering that all statistics show that small arms hits distribution are mostly random (head and neck get more) then you have better chance to hit unprotected parts of the body with successive hits than rifle plate again.

this trial will go nowhere, same as the trial that was supposed to replace the m9 with a .45, I don't think there are FNX tacticals in the army's inventory.

>>34806113
>body armor overated
Not like they're covering anything important, right?

>>34806236
If the plates are covering the entire body, then it is better to make sure that each hit has a significant lasting effect rather than being so small that it doesn't crack the plate. Modern ceramics are pretty tough and can resist cracking quite well, ending up with small little craters where the bullet impacted but no loss of structural integrity to the surrounding areas.

But spraying the enemy with a load of really small bullets isn't a totally bad idea either. That's why I'm also hoping the Microgun comes back into play.

>>34806215
7.62 is actually kinda crap to penetrate armor with, especially out of a 16-20in barrel. 24in seem to stand a better chance.

Honestly if the army was concerned about penetration, a 5.56 20in barrel + tungsten perpetrator could easily do the job.

>>34802674
If I wanted to out range a PKM and make body armor irrelevant I would get a general purpose machine gun chambered in .338 lapua

7.62x51mm NATO round is obsolete in practical sense. We need a stronger round and it should be 7.92×57mm Mauser.

>>34806547
>this round is obsolete
>proposes 50 year older round

>>34806559
.22 Long Rifle is still useful today, even though it came from the late 19th century.

>>34806628
I didn't say it wasn't useful, but I don't think it's superior

>>34802775
Videos of British Army having tea while being mortared > crybaby Americunt Mayreens beging Jeebus to save their redneck lives while being mortared

>>34802775

>>34804350
So you mean, a specialist in a squad armed with a specialized rifle designated to engage targets at mid-to-long ranges? Gee what a novel idea!

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>>34806713
Quick, patent the idea!

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>>34802674
The Army can't even select a proper sidearm. They're going to fuck this up.

>>34806113
>plates are too small
Its really just comfort/mobility vs protection.
I am sure its more than possible to draw up and make some whole body encompassing plate carrier with IV plates, but I am also it'd be uncomfortable as all hell and you'd have a lot more trouble moving about.

>>34806741
Maybe they'll go with a Remington.

You act like the Americans picking bad gear is unheard of. They still use a fucking AR platform and selected baby blue pajamas as their camouflage.

I'm somewhat hopeful for this deal.

We're getting a combination of either:

New shit

New uppers for ar

Standardized ar10's

New meme cartridge

Feels good.

>>34806772
>still thinking the M16/M4 is bad
>still thinking the navy hasn't replaced their blue bdus

Please tell us what country you are from and why your country has picked better weapons and gear.

>>34806772
>saying this unironically

don't let your dreams become memes, vatnik

>>34806230
>Yeah guys, let's just buy this rifle, it will allow us to use the old handguards and charging handles, the armorer's only need to switch every other part!

the time has come for 6.5 CT

I want to be able to buy this surplus

>>34806313

Look up the LWMMG, anon.

>m14 comes back
>polymer stocks
>slight redesign so the internals aren't simultaneously external
>forget the m16 ever happened

And lo, it was good.

>>34806944
But the M14 is shit

>>34806951
Reasons?

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God I really wish the Army wasn't a bunch of shills. Muh dick gets hard looking at this

>>34807005
Is there any more info about when or if it's going to be release?

>>34806160
Story on pic?? Where's the operator from and where did he die?

>>34806959
its a gun designed around stripperclips and wood ffs.

>>34807223
yfw it uses polymer stocks and detachable box mags.

>>34807039
Their fuckerbook page is a good source of information. They said i believe late this year

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>>34805976
>>34805976
>mk11 mod 0
correct

>>34807039
It's shipping

>>34802674

>need new rifle to pierce body armor

Why not just shoot them two or three times instead?

>>34807251
I will believe when I see it, there is footage of working prototypes since 2014, at this point the have missed the hype train.

>>34807213
French paratrooper in africa iirc

>>34807273
They delivered the first one last week

>>34807005
>bullpup

Into the trash it goes

>>34807223

>doesn't like strippers

What are you, a fag?

>>34804711
Sandniggers don’t aim. They literally believe allah will guide their bullets.

>'new' rifle is just an AR-10

I lost faith in the US military choosing their firearms and sidearms.

>>34802775
Doesn't anyone ever recognize this fucking picture is a fake.

>>34803800
Because that's literally a requirement per the solicitation lmao

>>34804817
Actually, it would likely be the reverse as most of America's remaining manufacturing capability is in the southern states now.

Now if you said, the North was decked out in foreign made gear and the South in American made gear maybe.

>>34802674
Ak47

>>34808282
Not enough stoppan powah

>>34808560
50 caliber desert eagle™

>>34808877
Too much stoppin powah. You want enough left over to ID the body for a confirmed kill.

>>34809047
Laser guided harpoon with a rope on the harpoon so you can pull people back to you like scorpion GET OVER HERE!!!

>>34803094
you don't.

>>34806741
>doesn't know the M17 is dropsafe

Spot the Glockfag.

>>34806668
Do you really think the taliban/is/al queda can tell the difference between us soldiers/marines or uk soldiers?

They just go like: "Shit it's a well equiped white guy. Fuck him up."

>>34807257
why do you have a random picture of potato salad?

>>34809856
It turns me on.

>>34809856
Why don't you?

>>34803655
Thanks for the file name, I used to think think that pic was just extended mag vs regular, due to not looking close enough I guess. Now it makes more sense.

>>34802674
Just issue everyone a GM6 Lynx, standardize .50cal across the board.

>>34802674
>>34802766

Muh M16 with a 20" barrel defeats armor better than .308

>>34808140
What if this relocation of military production was all part of the plan for the south to rise again?

>>34802674
>mfw we go back to the M16a1 with better projectiles and rifling optimized for those rounds

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Check out this piece of high tech gear. Makes level 4 body armor obsolete and cost per round is very economical.

>pic related

>>34812324
It would be more relevant if there were no nuclear silos in the north.

9.5x40mm when

>>34804507

We can make up for that and more with amphetamines.

>>34812533
No more fucking rip fuel, Ray.

>>34804879
>Military uses 5.56 almost exclusively beyond some specialty rifles and GPMG's
>5.56 is not deemed "military only" and is widely available.

Your argument falls flat on it's face

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>>34806119
>6.8 drops like a rock after 100 yards or so.
Get a load of this retard

My ex got me into guns. She said I had a 30 caliber cock.

>>34812621
It's not a great choice. I think you know that.

>>34812657
You're right. It's not 6.5 Grendal

>>34812657
it's better than the 5.56 varmint round we have now.

>>34812676
Grendel isn't really any better. It's slow and needs a long barrel just to get there. It's a hunting round.

>>34812622
Sorry about your micropenis

>>34812691
It's not better enough in enough areas.

>>34812676
That's not how you spell 6.5 Creedmore.

>>34812721
>Grendel isn't really any better.
It is significantly better both in external and terminal ballistics.

>It's slow
So is a .308.

>needs a long barrel just to get there.
Reletive performance wise the 6.5 Grendal performs better out of 16" and 14.5" barrels and has less performance hit than 5.56

>>34812748
>That's not how you spell 6.5 Creedmore.
Can't feed creedmore through a AR magwell, necessitating a new rifle patter be adopted.

If that were the case (new rifle) the military would go with the already standardized 7.62x51 which has more load options, has a multitude of already existing combat ready weapons platforms, and comparable performance to the creedmore.

And what's wrong with using something like the SCAR-H, M14, or the other number of AR-10 derivatives that the Army has previously fielded?

>>34812819
>It is significantly better both in external and terminal ballistics.
That's not the only criteria to consider for adoption. Grendel requires new magazines, new barrels, new bolts. Might as well get a new rifle at that point and if you're going to get a new rifle, you may as well adopt a much better round like .264 USA that can use all the same bullets Grendel can, but isn't hamstrung by a 2.26 OAL.

>>34812891
>Not new enough
>not enough acquisitions money to be had without a new competition and associated lobby checks.

>>34812891

Because there is an actual law saying that the Army cannot buy new guns without holding a competition. The idea is to prevent favoritism, although some would argue it just wastes a lot of time.

>>34812904
>Grendel requires new magazines
$10 part

>new barrels
$200 part worst case

>new bolts
$70 part

>>34812925
Right, but that adds up across a military. The things the military keeps talking about with next generation small arms -- armor defeat, barrier penetration, overmatch -- it points away from Grendel and towards more powerful cartridges.

>>34812748
say goodbye to your barrel life

let's skip ahead to the imperial bolter already

>>34813026
gyrojet a shit

what if they implemented a supercooled liquid metal projectile in a hopper to both increase mechanical consistency while making addtional ammo more readily compable for carry so that when the ary shoots a hooper dropps a predetermined amount of supercooled liquid metal based on engagement distances and required internal damage performance into the chamber followed by the appropriate amount of charge explosive powder liquid to ensure the ideal velocity upon impact based off a laser that determines range to target then army will have perfect hit probability and performance no matter what range and because the ammunition issupercooled liquid metal it can be easily shipped in tankers to the battlezone like water or medicine and be easily dispensed the hopper doesnt even need to be on the rifle when the army can carry all of their ammo in backpacks or better yet carried inside preselected nanomachine technology injected into the bloodstream to automatically load the weapon at real time speed

>>34803302
Putting a bayonet on the designated marksman's rifle sounds like a great idea
In fact, the m24 and M40 could both use bayos as well

>>34804772
>military switches to 7.62
>anti gun politicians notice this
>7.62 is now for military only
Why do you NEED a high powered military-style baby-killing 7.62 when you can get a wholesome 5.56 fit for us civilians? Only school shooters use 7.62!

>>34802832
You got raped on those mags if that's what you paid for them

How accurate are RFBs?

>>34812745
>range and bullet drop of 7.62x51
>near the weight of 5.56
it's perfect
don't lie, if you could buy a semi-auto rifle in 6.5 you would

>>34802674
They're going to buy the MDR.

8.47x61q

>>34802775
Muslims don't consider "chicken" an insult, not as much as we do anyway. They would call them dogs or women instead.

How about m80a1 and m855a1?

>>34802674
Going back to the 7.62 jesus christ its like we pay them to be redundant.

>>34802674
6.5 grendel is supersonic out to 1000 yards and its cheaper than 762. Just stop playing the nato humane bullets and develop a lethal jacket for fucks sake.

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>military lowers physical standards because muh feminism
>WE NEED A FULL SIZE CARTRIDGE BECAUSE ARMOR

wew lad

>>34817764
Not to mention it's already designed for converted m-16 platforms. Conversion kits are guaranteed cheaper than entire rifles.

Of course people will also argue with
>muh NATO
which is a stupid fucking limitation. The Russians ain't gonna wait for NATO to agree on a 6.5 round before fielding their own. Someone has to lead the way or we'll be outpaced.

>>34817886
>we'll be outpaced
>by the Russians who have no intention of switching from 5.45

Sure.

>>34812891
Apart from regulations and programming talk all of the above weapons systems have had troubled histories in Army service. The Army's stopgap M14 DMRs were notoriously shitty in both reliability and accuracy, and the SAGE chassis was insanely heavy considering what it did.

The SR25-pattern M110s were also somewhat notorious for poor reliability early on. While those problems were resolved, there is rightfully a lot of doubt that a SR25-style rifle will be reliable under the heavy firing schedule the new ICSR will likely see (provided we can even afford to train with the damn things)

The SCAR-H (Mk 17) has had mixed reviews from SOCOM. Some people like it, but issues like the recoil killing optics and the fragile stock hinge mean that it's hardly perfect and that SOCOM is uninterested in procuring more.

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>>34809608
https://www.google.com/amp/www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/08/jon-wayne-taylor/sig-sauer-stops-production-of-p320-voluntary-safety-upgrade-details-on-monday/amp/

>Perfectly drop safe as long as your gun doesn't suffer a tap to the back of the slide. No cause for concern, goy.

>>34817934
The commercial P320 has a different trigger mechanism from the Army M17. SIG's plan is to have a voluntary upgrade to the Army trigger group which supposedly is drop safe.

>>34813772
The purpose of the modifications I suggested were to make it more of a combat rifle than a marksman's rifle.

whats up with his grip? Why is his thumb like that?

>>34817967
Supposed to reduce the effect of your thumb sympathetically squeezing as you press the trigger. It's common with some precision rifle shooters.

>>34817909
>thinking the Russians will ever show anyone their hand

>penetrate advanced body armors
I can't think of a time when the USA fought an enemy with advanced body armor.

>>34818021
>implying they even have the money to develop a whole new rifle and field it right now
>thinking that they would really be able to keep such a major project secret while fielding the rifles to an entire military addicted to vk
>thinking they wouldn't just exploit their new rifle for PR purposes right away instead of banking on it making a difference in the unlikely event of full scale war
Nigga, you know nothing about Russia.

>>34804719
haha! omg thats not funny lol. semper fucking fi