Korean War 2: Nuclear Boogaloo

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http://www.pacaf.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/1272434/south-dakota-airmen-arrive-ready-to-fight-tonight-from-guam/

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>North Korea makes same style of threats it has been making for literal decades
>they have a missile with no re-entry vehicle, so the bluster is suddenly far more credible and dangerous
>literal hermit state that only exists because China wills it
>starting a nuclear war

/literallynothingofnote/

>>34801955
They did not have a credible ICBM a month ago. They do now. Two weeks ago, we were assured that their launch sites would be easy to track and their missiles, which take time to set up, would be incapable of making a strike against the US. North Korea has now proven that they can launch their missiles from ad-hoc launch sites on short notice.

>>34801955
according to some random anon in the last thread, china allegedly kludged a reentry vehicle using wood. I'm assuming as an ablative.

that statement was tossed out there in the original thread without supporting evidence and I'm hoping someone will link us to the /k/nowledge this time.

at any rate, reentry vehicles are a minor technical feat after building a working nuclear weapons program.

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>>34802021
It actually wasn't as much of a kludge as you would think. Just read that as a thick piece of oak chars during reentry, the charcoal peels away little by little. Very little heat transfer to the metal because wood is a good insulator. It's actually really effective, and orders of magnitude cheaper than the ceramic tiles we use.

>>34801993
And yet the actual balance of power remains unchanged. North Korea's lease on life has always been based in the fact that China cannot allow reunification via diplomatic means, and the Norks would kill too many people going down to justify a second Korean war. The only thing that has really changed is that tens of millions of extra people would die in a suicidal war that absolutely no one wants.

The only way you can argue that the US would get hit by a non-retaliatory nuclear strike is to claim that Kim is so completely and totally insane that he doesn't care about the Korean people (his government's ultimate goal has been to save the Korean people from western imperialism) and his own existence. There is very, very little evidence to support this claim.

>>34801955
They have already had 12 missile tests this year

>>34801713
How does one go about contacting the DPRK? Don't they have a website or something? We just need to email them something like, "Do it, faggot"

Then I can say that I stood up to tyranny and an abuse of the world. I finally did something.

>>34802072

In the end, the US will not abide North Korea possessing nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them. The balance of power is changing with respect to Kim's ability to make good on his threats to cover DC in a rain of fire or whatever flavor of words they want to use. The Kim regime cannot be relied on to be a rational actor at all times due to its explicitly narrow window of interests, which amplifies the threat they pose far above that posed by China or Russia.

>>34802092

>Hello, yes, is this North Korea? I would like to speak to North Korea please. Oh good, yes, thank you for having me. I'm an American, I have a question, please. Fuck yourselves. Yes, that's correct, I will step on your dick and shit in your hair. Thank you.

>>34801955
They have a real ICBM now and furthermore they are making more and more specific threats.
This most recent one towards Guam. If their next missile launched goes up and starts heading South, or West and on a long arc taking it across the Pacific, then that's reason to believe they really are trying to hit American territory. A presumed act of war that warrants military response. Not just sanctions or troops movements, but submarines sitting off the Korean coast and hitting targets in NK or airstrikes against where they store/assemble their missiles.
If they actually do manage to nuke somewhere, then that opens up every possible kind of response.

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>>34802125
Again, North Korea possesses the ability to kill an extra several million people if it's willing to forfeit its right to exist as anything but an irradiated slag heap.

They've had artillery pointed at Seoul for decades. We know for a fact they have stockpiles of chemical and possible biological weapons. There is disagreement over how much damage they could actually do, but they have always possessed the ability to kill a lot of innocent people on very short notice. Granted, the continental United States is now a target. That's incredibly scary, but it doesn't change what has been true for the past 40+ years: North Korea gets spit roasted the second it actually does something. Nothing has altered this understanding.

The only difference now is that the cost of fucking up is too high not to consider diplomatic avenues over military options.

I've been watching this shit so close for months, going back and forth on how I feel, And tonight talking with a friend about it (he's turbo liberal so we have different viewpoints, but I wouldn't call it an argument yet).

I suddenly have a change of how I've always felt.....I kinda want NK to pull some shit, just to see how fast and how hard we retailate. I wanna see an Ohio class dump it's full load from just offshore so before NK can even announce it's results they're rekt

>>34802230
>The only difference now is that the cost of fucking up is too high not to consider diplomatic avenues over military options.

It was never not too high. The conventional deterrent alone saw to that for every decade since the Korean War armistice.

Does anyone else believe nothing of note is gonna happen?

>>34802245
>I suddenly have a change of how I've always felt.....I kinda want NK to pull some shit, just to see how fast and how hard we retailate.
I'm going the opposite way. I used to be like "DO IT FAGGOT", but now I'm like "I don't want you to do it, but if you do I will have a hand in retaliating".

>>34802263
Oppenheimer said everyone should calm down. The situation now is the same as it was yesterday and it will be for a while.

>>34802245
>I wanna see an Ohio class dump it's full load from just offshore so before NK can even announce it's results they're rekt

Bad idea when Russia's missile detection systems probably can't tell the difference between us targeting North Korea or Russia.

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>>34802263

I think most of us do, just like with many topics on /k/, self defense, body armor, using swords in real life, SHTF, go-innawoods, what camo you choose mattering, etc, we're just having fun letting our imaginations run wild and arguing about it

>>34802245
you run the very, very high risk of fucking millions of South Koreans or Chinese when the fallout settles wherever it may. You then have to figure out what to do with the crater which used to be the northern end of the Korean peninsula. China is going to want a piece of that since they want to maintain the buffer. We know how vicious chinks get with border disputes. Just look at their ongoing dispute with India.

You also need to deal with the hundreds of thousands of starving, unskilled refugees who speak the Korean equivalent of Ebonics except five times worse. Many of them will be suffering from malnutrition, and health issues stemming from the nukes you just came all over them. Then somebody needs to pay up in order to rebuild critical infrastructure, tear up the DMZ and the minefields on both ends, and think about why the fuck the American pig dogs are still poking around.

It would feel good for a few minutes. The high wouldn't justify the crash.

>>34802307

>It would feel good for a few minutes.

Yeah, that's the part I'm talking about. That feeling is taking over. Stop reminding me about the logical realistic side of things. I want to watch a star spangled dick 100 miles long slap itself all up and down the North Korean countryside, blocking out the sun with it's fury as the poor little NK peasants are disillusioned out into low earth orbit from the force of the impacts

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>>34802350

>>34802418

A lot like that, yes, but also literally 100 miles long

>>34802263
More sanctions, more bombers showing off over South Korea, more politics as usual. North Korea's autistic screeching has been part of the globe's political background noise for so long now that it's just about irrelevant. They provide a great way for western politicians to look tough on rogue states without having to do anything, and their mere existence justifies a massive American military presence very close to China.

Like a lot of other people have said, North Korea's nukes aren't some "wunderwaffe" type bullshit they intend to use to rule the world. Kim Jong-Un is likely less than sane, but any instability comes from the ego he holds over his people, not the world. He has seen the globe outside of North Korea, went to school outside the country, and is fully aware that there are harsh consequences for any of the actions he talks about taking. Remember that all the news we get about "He's gonna nuke this" or "They're gonna blow up that" all originates from Nork state media, ie what the general public are seeing. These aren't declarations made on the diplomatic level, they are shows for the evening news. We all want to picture him as either an incompetent man-child or a megalomaniacal mad scientist. In reality he's a guy who has a lot of power over a lot of dumb peasants based pretty much solely on his name, and he wants to keep it that way.

>>34802245
>I wanna see an Ohio class dump it's full load from just offshore so before NK can even announce it's results they're rekt

Honestly, I feel like the US might not even use nuclear weapons in retaliation. At this point we really wouldn't need to, and it's not like we need to prove to anyone that we can. The whole idea of a nuclear exchange is that it's supposed to snowball into a full-on nuclear war; there are no breaks on the atomic locomotive. When your enemy only has maybe a handful of nuclear devices, let alone ones that can actually be used offensively, there's no reason to use your own. You don't kick puppies; even if it bites you, you just don't do it.

Besides, the US is more than capable of defeating North Korea with it's radioactive third arm tied behind it's back. I don't want to spend the rest of my life hearing chinks and vatniks bitching about how we only won because we used nukes.

Are the sanctions actually working this time?

And how serious are they in nuking Guam? It seems rather counterproductive to declare your intent to attack a military base like that.

And how well would THAAD work?

>>34802689
>Are the sanctions actually working this time?
Sanctions need time to actually kick in. They are also contingent on them being enforced, so only time will tell.

>And how serious are they in nuking Guam? It seems rather counterproductive to declare your intent to attack a military base like that.
Retarded bluster. Disregard it.

>And how well would THAAD work?
I believe it had a 50% shootdown rate in a controlled test with perfect information (knowing when, where the missile is coming from). Which means that it's mostly a paper tiger in the field. We cannot depend on it working if a nuke is actually launched.

>>34802689
>Are the sanctions actually working this time?
No. China is baring the brunt of most of it, and at this point I'm sure the norks have figured out how to subsist on only gravel and a few drops of muddy water every week.

>And how serious are they in nuking Guam?
Not very.
>It seems rather counterproductive to declare your intent to attack a military base like that.
Exactly, as is declaring it through your state media. Think about how fucking crazy the Norks must be going right now. "We threatened to attack one of their bases! This is huge!" It's all for the people, not to scare us.

>And how well would THAAD work?
Testing has been promising, but given the difficulty of testing any ABM system in the current political climate is a challenge. I would have to imagine that the diplomatic paperwork just to fire one of those things within two thousand miles of Chinese territory must be as bad as just firing a nuke into Beijing

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>>34802689
Oppenheimer posted this in the last thread.

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>>34802689
>As of June 2017, 10 of the 18 (55%) hit-to-kill intercept tests have succeeded. No flight intercept tests from 2010 to 2013 were successful.[16] In response the Pentagon asked for a budget increase and another test for the fielded program.[17] The first test in 3 years was scheduled for May 30, 2017.

It's better than nothing but there's no guarantees. Hitting a city is easy. Hitting something the size of a car in space on minutes' notice is hard. Trying to hit it when you have next to no information about where it's being launched from or how many there are... Let's hope diplomacy works.

>>34802362
Man, JASDF paint schemes are aesthetic as fuck.

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Do we really believe that DRPK has managed to develop a liquid-fueled road-mobile ICBM, (a feat no other country has ever managed to achieve) as their first ICBM? Sounds like bullshit to me.

>>34802576
At what point though do even the most diehard loyal and fanatical North Koreans start to realize their leader is bluffing?
As you said, Kim Jong Un knows the outside world. However a lot of his people do not and they will expect some kind of acting on the threats and claims given by their government. When that fails to happen, and when people realize the whole system is a sham, then what will happen?

>>34801713
the nork economy has been on the up-and-up

>>34802281
I thought he was dead.

>>34802785
How do I interpret this?

Should I be assuming that the higher number represent a higher demonstrated capability to intercept against the correlating threats by system?

If so, then what is the relative "success" of a 1 vs a 3 vs a 6 and on what scale?

Are we discussing the difference between a 90% intercept rate as a 3 and a 95% intercept rate as a 6?

Or are is it more along the lines of a 30% intercept rate as a 3 and a 60% rate as a 6?

If it is the latter, then the states are well and truly fucked.

>>34803102
It doesn't matter. The vast majority of the population has food security issues, is lacking in education, and has no actual ability to force a change in government. They don't even have the mass transit capacity to stage a large-scale riot. State security apparatus and the military are everywhere and perfectly willing to kill people.

What if all of his "underground tests" were staged with conventional explosives in order to fool seismic sensors around the world? Kim gets to saber rattle in his usual "give us food and we'll be good" way, and it increases his cache with the Korean people to shake his fist at the bad, bad, United States...?

Get your scientists to cobble together some rockets that you launch a little ways into the Pacific and suddenly the world THINKS you're maybe a nuclear power...?

>>34801713
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XmDYJBZZdc

STANDING

But I seriously hope and think that this is just some strong banter and that NK along with the Regime has a self preservation mechanism enough to know not to launch.

>>34803201
That didn't stop a lot of Russians from revolting in 1917. Back then people were uneducated and starving, they realized how their government were making things worse and rose up.
If enough people really are fed up and see the current system has nothing going for it then they will rebel. It may not be close to that point in North Korea yet but the charade cannot last forever.
The regime will end due to getting into a real war or a rebellion. I sued to think China may invade and occupy North Korea, but that seems less likely now.

The Norks PROBABLY have shit tonnes sleepers on US soil with Chinese student passports.

I'm worried that these elements have been here for decades putting together networks and cobbling together some sort of nuke(s). Not to mention secondary targets such as nuke plants and dams and other power factilities.

>>34803224
That sounds like wishful thinking. Sure North Korea is poor and far less technically capable than the West, but this is 70 year old technology. They've spent a huge amount of money on R&D and building their reactor to not replicate this relatively old piece of weapons 're.

>>34803326
prob right

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>>34803322
>mfw the graduate physics program at my school is mostly chinese
>mfw they've likely had access to radioactive isotopes and could probably build a simple but effective dirty bomb
>mfw my school is in the most populated city in the US

>>34803224
I think it's safe to assume they aren't bluffing about having nukes, but I find it difficult to believe they have the means to deliver them to the continental US.

>>34803297
Imperial Russia also had a very weak central authority and a large amount of impoverished, dispossessed urban poor. NK doesn't have those issues. The urban dwellers enjoy a standard of living higher than the rural dwellers, relative to NK standards, and thus stand to lose more. NK is also far better than Russia at cracking down on dissidents in general.

>>34803322
Who the hell would go from North Korea to the US and not just cut all ties with the old country and stay here?

>>34803503
The useful idiots and the indoctrinated gov. servants...

>>34803556
That will only get you so far.
http://blog.chron.com/thetexican/2014/04/when-boris-yeltsin-went-grocery-shopping-in-clear-lake/

>>34803588
Lol it's a Food Town now. The true sign of the decline of a Houston neighborhood.

>>34803503
Those who have family left behind in North Korea, those who already live in relative material comfort (I'm sure quite a few of the expats already do), and those who do genuinely believe in the mission and ideology of the North Korean government.

>>34803647

That and the fear their family back in NK will be punished or possibly imprisoned or killed. I've read before that defectors who cross the border have their families punished in retaliation, I can imagine if that's the case it's even worse for the families of those who the NK government spends the money and effort to send to the USA who change their mind

>norks scrape together a nuke
>launch it at guam (like they could even hit it lol)
>THAAD shoots it down
>radioactive fallout rains down on everyone
you just can't win

>>34801955

Who needs a viable missile and re-entry system? Just put a warhead in a cargo ship and detonate it midway through the Panama canal.

>>34802230
>the cost of fucking up is too high not to consider diplomatic avenues over military options
How well have those diplomatic avenues paid over the past half century? I get that the cost of war is the highest it's ever been, but I can't help but just laugh at the people saying we should deal with them diplomatically, as if that's ever worked in the past.

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>>34803780
You're thinking like a terrorist. Kim is thinking like a despot. There's no reason for him to do anything but live out his life. The nukes are a deterrent and the talk is just posturing to keep his people happy. It's a military leadership, and militaries need enemies. I doubt he even wants to capture ROK at this point.

That said, he's unpredictable and contrarian, and those kinds of countries don't need nukes. It's bad enough that Pakistan/India are posturing constantly, now we have to worry about China/India and North/South Korea? WW3 isn't going to be the fun kind of war, none of us are going to get to fix bayonets.

>>34803745
>you just can't win
>AND SO IT GOES UNTIL THE DAY YOU DIE
>THIS THING THEY CALL LOVE IS GONNA MAKE YOU CRY
>I'VE HAD THE BLUES
>THE REDS AND THE PINKS
>ONE THING'S FOR SURE

>>34802672
No it's not. You're retarded. Nuclear wars are "supposed"to snowball? Do some fucking research

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>>34801713
Hey real talk, any idea when things are going to kick off, /k/? Right now I'm stationed at a hospital, but have orders for an infantry unit somewhere from january to march. Will I make it in time? I don't want to miss the party.

So what are the consequences of accepting N Korea as a nuclear power? By that I mean one capable of striking the US or its allies. What changes from the current status quo? I'm ignorant about such things. I mean, I assume it gives them more leverage to do...something. What exactly? How does it affect me, Joe Sixpack?

>>34801713
Everyone, have a read.

https://pastebin.com/RvRysh9p

It's about Nuclear warfare and diplomacy and called "Nuclear Warfare 101"

>>34801713
>tfw nothing is ever going to happen and at no point in time a QT nork refugee will do your housekeeping waiting for you to come home so she can suck your filthy vanilla ape gaijin cockjuice through his misaligned teeth

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>>34803780
What would that accomplish? Ships would just sail around SA, and shipping would continue as normal. Also how would the warhead be fused and detonated if it was inside a steel container and buried inside a mountain of other steel containers?

Hey oppenheimer, question unrelated to korea say the following scenario happens:

>accidental launch of a couple missiles from US land based launch facilities occurs
>for some reason they're programmed with targets in parts of the US mainland and the warheads are live.

About how much warning would citizens in the US have? or would it be a one of those "happens to damn fast to effectively warn anyone?" kind of event?

>>34802263

Ultimately, war with North Korea only suits Trump if impeachment becomes a realistic scenario.

>>34802307
>We know how vicious chinks get with border disputes. Just look at their ongoing dispute with India.

You mean schoolyard bully-tier chucklefucks getting into literal fisticuffs after someone accidently dropped a cigarette butt over a chalk-line in some godforsaken desert in the ass-end of eurasia recorded by long-feng no chin on his bootleg iphone while pajeet ramit nahasapeemapetilon was taking a shit in the sand 2.15 inches from the nearest toilet or have I missed something? I've been out of the loop for a while

>>34803926
I can't think of anything they stand to gain from it other than a morale boost

>>34803926

It complicates security in Northeast Asia, probably catalyzing a long-term arms race which would have unpredictable economic and geopolitical consequences that reverberate globally due to the portion of global GDP involved (three biggest economies in the world, plus ROK and Russia).

>>34803986
>accidental launch of a couple missiles from US land based launch facilities occurs
>for some reason they're programmed with targets in parts of the US mainland and the warheads are live.

Would never happen. If it did the weapons would be deactivated mid flight. The issue is that several nations would detect the launch and react accordingly.

>About how much warning would citizens in the US have?

About half an hour once the threat is verified assuming an alert is issued at all. You must understand that giving such an alert would cause massive panic, something the US government does not want to deal with.

I was checking out weapons in theater, if you have a MIRV-8 rated at 100 kt, does that mean each vehicle is 100 kt payload, or the total of all 8 vehicles adds up to 100?

>>34803184
>How do I interpret this?
It means THAAD won't work against ICBMs.

>>34804109
So is the main issue that nuclear norks undermine America's guarantee of security for SK and Japan, and would incentivize these nations to provide more for their own military? I mean, is it not possible that reducing the US involvement in this region could maybe calm things down? It seems to me that a lot of tension in that part of the world is due to the American influence.

can I join the army once war breaks out? will they run my social?

>>34804201
>a lot of tension in that part of the world is due to the American influence

or NK neurotiscism

>>34801713
They cant even make a good website.


http://www.korea-dpr.com/

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>>34803745
>THAAD shoots it down

>>34804301
If they called it CHAAD the Norks would surrender immediately.

>>34804201

>So is the main issue that nuclear norks undermine America's guarantee of security for SK and Japan, and would incentivize these nations to provide more for their own military?
Yes.

>I mean, is it not possible that reducing the US involvement in this region could maybe calm things down? It seems to me that a lot of tension in that part of the world is due to the American influence.
That is indeed what Beijing says, as it tacitly presides over DPRK's nuclear program, gradually recolonizes Taiwan, and seeks to establish an unprecedented extraterritorial domain in the South China Sea.

Of course, you might still argue that it would be preferable to cede the Asia Pacific to China than ruffle their feathers and North Korea's. But coming back to your original question about how this all affects Joe Sixpack, well, America's 70 year-long maintenance of the global international order has yielded enormous prosperity for our country. Giving that up to the despots of Asia would do the opposite.

thaad is worthle$$ junk

>>34803745
Fallout only happens if it goes nuclear on the ground you fucking retard.


However the Grid would be fucked.

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>>34803927
>says most of the population of China could be killed in US nuclear salvo
>says that 80% of the people in major cities will survive a nuclear strike

that sounds a bit contradictory

interesting read though

>>34803985
>What would that accomplish? Ships would just sail around SA, and shipping would continue as normal
I think you forget the reason for the canal in the first place, it's a massive time saver

>>34804329
Thanks, man. Makes sense. It's hard to get a sense of what's actually at play here, with everyone focused on which American cities will get nuked or how many civilians drumpf will murder. I guess I should like read a book or some shit.

>>34804349
Surviving a nuclear salvo is a very different thing than being unscathed in a nuclear salvo.

>>34804480

You sound like rare breed, especially on the internet. But yes, there's certainly plenty to read on the topic if you want to. Cold War history would probably give you the best idea--barring academic journals on East Asia and security studies, but that's a whole other level of commitment.

For shorter articles and the like, you might want to check out places like http://thediplomat.com/ and http://www.38north.org/

>>34804175
What weapon are you talking about?
W78 and W87 yields are like 300-350 kt.

>>34802785
>>34803184
Red = bad performance
Blue & Purple = good performance

Looks like build 7 Patriot works ok, and AEGIS "ballistic missile defense" is working ok too.

>>34804656
While the question is dumb, you're dumber for not doing a simple google search and realising Trident is armed with 100kt W76 and 475kt W88 warheads.

>>34804829
Still begs the question, is it 100 per vehicle or 100 for the entire package?

>>34802021
Cork was actually used as ablative re-entry shielding during the Mercury program

>>34802021
> wood

Cork is a really good abrasive, it was used During the early American space program, and is still used for The French M51 missiles, it is also used on the heat shield of many mars landers and rovers.

I can only see the situation improving over the years.

For NORKs of course.

>>34803745

A THAAD can't shot-down an ICBM.

>>34801713
I sincerely don't get the buzz about it, a single, low yield, single warhead, outdated missile really means nothing against systems like Aeigs designed to intercept way more advanced Russian and Chinese threats.

>>34805594
meme aside, isn't it the whole point of it?

>>34803336
>school
That explains it.

>>34802230
And how exactly do you suppose you diplomatically deal with NK without bending over and spreading your ass cheeks via sending them practically anything they want. We have tried diplomatic avenues since the Korean War. Not ONE time have they ever acknowledged a compromise. From the beginning its been insane propaganda ramped to 110% with threats and dick waving that isn't can't be matched by any other country on earth. They don't want diplomacy. Hell I don't even think they KNOW what they want besides the US in ruins.

>>34802672
>The whole idea of a nuclear exchange is that it's supposed to snowball into a full-on nuclear war
???
Not a single part of that sentence is remotely correct.

>>34802768
Pretty sure its 100% to date. At least thats all I can find when I search into it. If you have data saying its 50% id be interested to see it.

>>34805696
They want to preserve their commie way of life and expand it to the southern half. Then be dirt farmers in that peninsula until the heat death of the universe.

>>34805671
THAAD can shoot down short ranged and medium ranged ballistic missiles but not ICBMs. ICBMs fly too high into space that once it glides down the terminal phase is too quick that the THAAD can't shoot it down.

>>34805734
How about Aegis?
If you people are sweating over a handmade NK missile it means Russian missiles, with multiple reentry vehicles + decoys and much bigger yield are unstoppable.

>>34805744
>If you people are sweating over a handmade NK missile it means Russian missiles, with multiple reentry vehicles + decoys and much bigger yield are unstoppable.
Exactly. It's just that Russia knows that starting something will result in a smack down the likes of which the world has never seen before.

GBI can probably take down a few Russian warheads though. I'm not sure how much of an effect that would have on any ruskie war plans, you'd have to ask Oppenheimer for that.

>>34804320
CHAAD Thundermissile

>>34805234
100 per vehicle
So '800' per missile in the original question. But that's quite different from an 800kt unitary warheads' effects.

>>34805744
Ballistic missile defence is hard. The Russian BMD system wouldn't be much use vs. NATO arsenals either.
The problem is adding one more missile to the salvo is much cheaper than intercepting one more incoming missile, so cost: benefit ratio favours the attacker.

>>34805764
>>34805807
Damn, I sincerely though that interception was easier and everyone had it figured it out.
Even tho, in the case NK had some kind of working ICBM and lunched it, would it be a real threat? Could they be intercepted? They are still primitive and single warhead.

So lets say NK perfects uranium enrichment or plutuniom production and the implosion weapon, how much could they theoretically produce a year with the entire country working at it, raw uranium shouldn't be a problem as apparently they have a few high grade mines.

Also with rogue/crazy nations possessing nuclear ICBM do you think it's possible we could bust out the nuclear anti-ballistic missiles again? The current kinetic kill vehicles have some success, with a 500kt warhead you'd only have to put the missile within a kilometer maybe? to knock it out, plus high altidude clean modern bombs would limit fallout.

Just imagine watching nuclear missile warfare up in the sky, it'd literally turn night into day.

>>34805837
>So lets say NK perfects uranium enrichment or plutuniom production and the implosion weapon, how much could they theoretically produce a year with the entire country working at it, raw uranium shouldn't be a problem as apparently they have a few high grade mines.
http://thediplomat.com/2017/08/us-intelligence-north-korea-may-already-be-annually-accruing-enough-fissile-material-for-12-nuclear-weapons/
At the moment they can do 12.

>>34805525
>M51 missiles
It's not.

The British got into a diplomatic row a decade or two back over an American company licensed to produce American RV bodies using British developed carbon-carbon composites handing over "commercial samples" of the material to the French.

Before that the French already had non-cork RVs as seen in their land-based S3 missile.

>>34802061
>ceramic tiles
They are actually silica sand/glass filled with air creating a foam coated with ceramic.
They are glass tiles not ceramic ones.

>>34805961
>
It's not used for the MIRVs of the M51, it is definitively used on the stages for heat protection.

Source: a guy i know working for Airbus Defence and Space

>>34805980
There are a million and one better materials to use.

Your source is meaningless on the internet.

North korea blows a nuke in LA, whole USA goes into 1000year depression. USA is basicly hostage of NK now

What, if anything, do we know about the Nork's quest for or progress in ECM devices onboard their missiles or decoy countermeasure development? Is there an expected timeline on any of that?

>>34803986
The warheads have environmental sensors that only allow the weapon to arm after it has been subjected to the forces and environment of a ballistic trajectory consistent with a distant target.

>>34806339
Do yo have any recommendation for things that discuss the long war and interwar deterrence?

>>34803985
I don't know if you're aware of this, but the trip around the Horn fucking sucks on top of taking forever.

>>34802135
Probably this. There won't be time for deliberation, it would be a presumed shot of anger and met with overwhelming retaliatory response. Best Korea's ability to wage war would be targeted and probably annihilated in short order. Whether the US would answer with nuclear weapons isn't sure. Nor is is sure who would have boots on the ground first, the US or China.

>>34806678
There is almost no reason to nuke NK in any scenario I think. Beyond a bunker that can't be hit any other way, but the theater wide consequences would be small.

>>34806458
Managing Nuclear Operations.

>>34806692
I don't think we'd use nukes either, but I'm not calling the shots. There is the possibility that cooler heads do not prevail.

But this is all the typical sabre rattling that Best Korea has been engaging in for decades, the only difference is they've duct taped their sabre to the end of a broomstick.

>>34801713
DPRK does not have a first strike policy

>>34806775
They don't have any policy that can't change on a whim.

>>34806339
You are assuming NK has the foresight to incorporate a safety feature into their ICBMs?

That seems unlikely.

>>34804136
I know it'd never happen in real life because there's supposed to be safeguards to prevent that kind of thing from happening.

>>34806339
Tht's actually kinda neat. I'm assuming it's similar to torpedoes where it can't go active and arm within a certain distance of the ship that fired it and is another one of those safeguards to prevent such an event from even happening then, so in order to even arm it would have to fly off and away and then essentially return after arming itself, and would effectively have the flight time of a normal ICBM launch then.

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>>34806828
I'm the anon that asked the question, it was specific to US nuclear weapons as the premise was all the safties get bypassed an an accidental launch occurs, targets somewhere else on the US mainland and then arms itself.

>mfw doing research for a book on /k/

>>34806851
All the planets would have to align and seven galaxies sacrificed on an altar and so on and so on... it's so far fetched. Your book would tank.

>>34801713
>ITT retards think a second Korean war will ever happen
Lil Kimmy knows he'll get BTFO and no one will ever invade because they don't want to deal with the nukes and the aftermath of reuniting the Korean peninsula.

>>34802126
'murica

>>34806871
It's scifi, it's not meant to conform to all the laws of reality. Whenever science does come up in the story, I want to try to be a close to the reality as possible, but well.

Consider how knowledgeable the average citizen is regarding nukes and nuclear accessories. I'd say it's a safe ssumption that the average citizen wouldn't be surprised if an accident with an ICBM could result in the US nuking itself. Fuck sometimes I think the NIMBY crowd would love that to happen so they could get the public support to decommission all the NPPs in the US.

>>34806721
Already got a copy and read it. Any others?

>>34806915
Page Opp, he's read all of them.

How long would NK last?

Three days? I would expect huge amounts of troops to surrender in little time.

>>34803927
Interesring read, thanks

>>34806969
I'm not sure they would surrender that fast, they've had decades of propaganda poured into their skulls - death before failure and whatnot

>>34806969
Years.

Really, military operations would take years. Those mountain guns will fire until they're out of ammunition. Fighting on the Korean peninsula is incredibly complex and the US military will find it the most challenging operation since the Vietnam War.

>>34803789
>How well have those diplomatic avenues paid over the past half century?

Extremely well. What are you suggesting?

>>34807035
>>34807040

I personally believe the fat turd gets offed by his personal guard in the first day.

>>34802126
Fuck yes. Is there like a nork consulate somewhere with a telephone number?

>>34807078
Here we go, the North Korean Embassy in London.

+44 20 8992 4965

>>34807068
It's unlikely to happen.

The biggest risk is that we don't take NK seriously. It is not some comedy dictatorship, it's a regime with no limits and a large reserve of heavy weaponry and explosives. If the attitude in the USA is one of dismissal, where NK is easily brushed aside, then they're in for a real shock.

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>>34803780

>>34803971
>she
>his

>>34805807
But I thought slavs used nuclear interceptors to defend Moscow.

>>34801713
Every fucking year it's
>We're going to nuke:
>Guam
>Gookland
>Nipland
and every fucking year nothing happens.

>>34802125
>In the end, the US will not abide North Korea possessing nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them.
bullshit. the US abides by lots of states doing this.

Nooks for gooks

>>34802135
>. If their next missile launched goes up and starts heading South, or West and on a long arc taking it across the Pacific, then that's reason to believe they really are trying to hit American territory.
Duh. That's the whole point of nukes; to discourage the opponent from starting a war. The whole point of nukes is moot if you can't prove you can deliver them in a retaliatory strike. It has absolutely no bearing on the likelihood of them suicidally doing a first strike.

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>>34801713
"Nuclear War": Official Soundtrack released
>https://youtu.be/dcFcjUtJ8zU
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
https://youtu.be/dcFcjUtJ8zU

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So the nuke in this pic looks like a traditional implosion-type Plutonium bomb. Assuming they know how to make use of boosted fission, what would the maximum possible yield for this device be? From what I can remember, the largest non-hydrogen bomb nuke the US ever created was around 250-300 kiloton (not sure exactly).

I doubt the Koreans are anywhere near that kind of yield (probably more like 60 kiloton max.), but lets just say they got a 250 kt bomb and are able to deliver it anywhere in the US, what target are they most likely to pick? That's assuming everything would go right of course, but seeing as they've successfully tested implosion designs multiple times now I have no reason to believe it would fail.

>>34807348
They've successfully detonated multiple nuclear explosions, and now they've shown they can successfully launch an ICBM that could travel to the United States. Nothing ever happened because they were never able to reach the US, so it was all just scare mongering. They have the reach now, which changes everything. Do you want to sit around and wait till they get megaton yield hydrogen bombs? Because at that point you are totally fucked, and they essentially become untouchable.

>Everybody thinks all norks got is one nuke ready to fly
>when japs confirmed they got at least 60

Lets wait few years and let them have 160, no system would intercept salvo like this

US is hostage nao

>people playing right into the military industrial complex propaganda that we need to invade NK because they have nukes! they're going to nuke us! we need to invade and spend lots of money on weapons and vehicles!!!
*rubs hands jewishly*

>>34807391
Depends how smart they are/what their goal is. Major cities are probably unlikely, except perhaps Washington. There's a lot of military targets that would make more sense, I'm not the expert, but I imagine they have enough intelligence to know where our command structures are located. The biggest priority would be weakening our ability to respond, not to up their K/D.

>>34807417
*dies in a nuclear fire few years later because small shithole doesnt have anything to loose*

>>34807432
Oy vey, that's right goyim! We gotta invade and spend LOTS OF MONEY before they nuke us! It'll definitely happen! Call your congoysman, tell him you want him to vote for MORE MILITARY SPENDING and to INVADE NORTH KOREA so our defense megacorps can make LOTS OF MONEY off young white American boys going to fight and die to those scary starving gooks!

>>34805594
>A THAAD can't shot-down an ICBM

I doubt they would waste a Hwasong-14 on a target as close as Guam. You'll probably see further testing of KN-17 and BM-25 (Musudan) missiles very soon. They are medium-long and intermediate range missiles respectively. And while they would be a bit more susceptible to ABM challenges, I don't feel that THAAD is up to the task quite yet.

tl;dr Not sure they'd be using ICBM when they have shorter range options

>>34807323
They did that in the same way that we tried using the Nike-Zeus missile in the '60s.

>>34807125
no me gusta!

also important https://youtu.be/BNdDXKqnQw4

>>34807842
i think you posted the wrong video lad

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>>34805978
>they're ceramic tiles
>not ceramic tiles
What would we do without pedantic autists on /k/?

>>34807040
>years
Yeah, that's roughly how long Iraq and Afghanistan took, right? How long did it take Baghdad to fall? 15 years of fighting? Wow. Yeah. Conventional Warfare is super difficult for the US nowadays.

>>34807391
San Francisco if we're lucky.

>>34802092
Norks have no diplomatic relations with the US, directly at least. They may have an embassy or consulate in Canada though. A prank call with a Skype account using a Canadian extension and we could get Canada nuked. Fuck snowbirds.

>If you kill your enemies, they win - Justin Trudeau

>>34807852
The internet has become known as a place of half truths,I wont stand for that.

>>34803927

It's a fun read but a tad confused, It keeps referring to how little damage modern nuclear arsenals will do to modern cities, and how targeting will mean inevitably that many cities survive entirely. It then goes on to suggest that we'll be living in a world slightly less harsh than in "Threads".

>>34802126
>Not specifying you live in San Francisco

>>34803503
Nork agents go South all the time, yet they don't defect that much. Holding families hostage is pretty effective for enforcing loyalty.

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>>34806339
Enjoy this tweet?

Why hasn't the US performed strikes on their facilities associated with production of nuclear arms? Israel has done it several times now, seems like it would be worth it even if it leads to those starving fucks shelling Seoul for a week or two.

>>34808523
This fucking guy...
Trump: Lets upgrade nukes, no digital, only steam.
Military: Our military is able to handle all threats right now sir, no need to go upgrading, also we've just finished placing new fuses on our SLBM. We're good to go.
Trump: *tweets bullshit*.

>>34806096
2 potatoes have been deposited into your mud hut

>>34807666
Considering the -14 would be harder/impossible to intercept than the others, no reason not to use it.

>>34808523
It was very very dumb.

>>34809449
My sides anon, plz have mercy

>>34807051
That NK has been killing both us and SK soilders and shelling SK for decades?

>>34802281
Link to Oppenheimer's post?

>>34809729
See >>34800685

>>34807323
Why bother when you have Perimeter?

>>34809786
Perimeter is nothing more than an emergency communications system not unlike the US' old ERCS

Orange faced buffoon promises to deliver fire and fury. Only capable of wind and flatulence. Sad!

>>34809833
I too, follow that twitter account.

>>34802282
We'd probably call them on the phone to let then know we're not nuking them

>>34804349
80% of people would survive a real-world attack scenario. But purely shooting for mass casualties most people in China would be killed.
Most of the Chinese population is very concentrated in a small area, and if you are actually aiming at the suburbs you will kill a rot of peepur.
In the real world, you focus on military and industrial targets.

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>>34808523
No. We are decades into arms reduction treaties.
> g o d d a m n s t e a m

>>34809923
Which is the first thing we would do if we were nuking them.
Seriously if the US was planning a pre-emtive strike for some reason, this would be a godsend.

>>34802230
Thank you for using it's/its correctly.

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>sending prayers for nork cuties to make it out before pyongyang gets annihilated

>>34806903
All it takes is a small minority to trash the whole concept in say an amazon review or a fanzine.
Don't write trash anon.

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>>34810307
Those qłπ's are the enemy, desu. Stay strong, they would redistribute you in a heartbeat.

>>34806969
The government itself would collapse within a week at the most and that is assuming the US doesn't pull out its own nukes. Dealing with the Chinese-backed guerrillas however, could be a nightmare that consumes America for decades.

>>34810307
m8 the moment you pulled your pants down they'd slice your throat open while screaming their praise to the glorious leader.

I have a theory on how this could play out.
After Reagan and Gorbachev agreed to scale back the size of both nuclear missile programs hundreds of "satellites" were launched into space. My theory is that after the missile pact both Russia and the USA put a sizable amount of ICBMs into space.
>my grandfather was a cold war era navy officer aboard a "special weapons" sub. he still believes he watched at least 15 "unannounced launches" in florida after the missile pact.

so what if the NORKs bought a space nuke from the russians and had them leave in it in geocentric orbit above the capitol. as the ultimate failsafe. In the event that the NORKs were invaded and all their defenses failed they could just drop a nuke on the capitol. go out in a blaze of communist glory.

>>34810855
one: capitol is a building.
two: capital is a city.
three: all satellites are in geocentric orbit.
four: you meant geostationary orbit.
five: which is only possible at the equator.
six: you're dumb.

>>34809604
Oppen- from what we know of Trump, couldn't it just have been an affirmation that he's willing to sue them should the need arise? As opposed to the Brits, who with the recent debates on purchasing a Trident follow-on, cast doubt on their will to use the nuclear option should it become necessary.

Hey Oppen- is there any reading material you'd recommend? I've always found the field you work in interesting, and would love to read some more on the subject.

Something I don't see mentioned often in these threads is what attacking North Korea would do to our foreign policy in general. We would be stating via our actions that the actual deaths of close American allies right now is preferable to hypothetical deaths of Americans at some point in the future. I very much doubt that a Korea unified without South Korean input would be even a fraction a good an ally as South Korea is today.

That is why there is still a North Korea, because the process of removing it would actually hurt our standing in the Pacific.

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kim jong un was a shy boy who loved basketball and went to the international baccalaureate school in Europe under a fake name.

>he is actually very intelligent, but probably just likes to troll

>he probably browses /k/ for inspiration and /r9k/ for support

>>34811421
NK is intranet only.
He spent most of his childhood in Switzerland.

>>34811557

actually, lots of web traffic for NK elites are to the pron and world of tanks

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Trump better be careful, he's extremely getting on their nerves!

>>34811557
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/kim-jong-un-world-tanks-internet-habits-north-koreas-elite-revealed-1631894

>>34804320
>>34805767
The VRGN Flameout vs THE CHAAD STRATEGIC DEFENSE

>>34802938
DOD is very close to developing a laser that will knock down icbm's.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.defenseone.com/business/2016/08/pentagon-were-closer-ever-lasers-can-stop-iranian-north-korean-missiles/130845/&ved=0ahUKEwi_7t2ol8vVAhXEVyYKHS5hD7oQFggpMAQ&usg=AFQjCNEk1_Skqmm43XvD8Vp11S_lo-yBmA

>>34811589
>North Korean leadership plays WoT

If they drop a bunch of nukes on Vietnam we'll know why.

>>34811601
Source or GTFO.

>>34811601
>We WIRR KIRR U ammerikun piggu

http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/news/2017/08/10/0200000000AEN20170810000600315.html

[POSTURING INTENSIFIES]

>SEOUL, Aug. 10 (Yonhap) -- North Korea's military said Thursday it is considering firing four intermediate-range ballistic missiles around Guam, home to several U.S. strategic bombers.

>North Korea's strategic force is "seriously examining the plan for an enveloping strike at Guam through simultaneous fire of four Hwasong-12 intermediate-range strategic ballistic rockets in order to interdict the enemy forces on major military bases on Guam and to signal a crucial warning to the U.S.," according to the Korean Central News Agency in English.

>It said that the missiles will fly over Japan and land near the U.S. territory of Guam, adding that the country will report its detailed plan to leader Kim Jong-un by mid-August.

>>34811186
>from what we know of Trump, couldn't it just have been an affirmation that he's willing to sue them should the need arise?
It was a stupid boast. Nothing more, nothing less.

>>34811225
I have a reading list somewhere. Ill post it if I find it.

>>34811601
The detail here is troubling.

>>34811654
>The detail here is troubling.

At least they're trying to make a point about their efforts being a matter of posturing rather than a direct attack. It shows some appreciation of the stakes.

>>34811225
On Thermonuclear War By Herman Kahn
On Limited Nuclear War in the 21st Century by Jeffrey Larsen and Kerry Kartchner
The Evolution of Nuclear Strategy, Third Edition by Lawrence Freedman
Russian Strategic Nuclear Forces by Pavel Podvig
Nuclear Statecraft: History and Strategy in America's Atomic Age by Francis J. Gavin
Eating Grass: The Making of the Pakistani Bomb by Feroz Khan
Prevention, Pre-emption and the Nuclear Option: From Bush to Obama by Aiden Warren
Nuclear Deterrence in the 21st Century: Lessons from the Cold War for a New Era of Strategic Piracy by Thérèse Delpech
Analyzing Strategic Nuclear Policy by Charles L. Glaser
Making of the Atomic Bomb by Richard Rhodes
Dark Sun: The Making of the Hydrogen Bomb by Richard Rhodes
Nuclear Strategy in the Modern Era: Regional Powers and International Conflict by Vipin Narang
Building the H Bomb: A Personal History By Kenneth W Ford
Paper Tigers By Jeffrey Lewis

With all this talk about all out nuclear war I realized I dont want to die.

I'd rather fukk big booty bitshes, go fishing, and do some cool stuff with my life.

Can you imagine the world dying in nuclear fire because some dumb shit told younger dumb shit to fire the missiles?

>>34811653
>only four

I wish they try. Not only will they all get shot down, it will give us impetus to push their fucking shit in.

DO IT. DO IT MOTHERFUCKER.

>>34811756

Read >>34811601

He's not threatening to bomb Guam. They're threatening a show of force in the /vicinity/ of Guam.

>>34811654
So what decision should be made in regards to NK? Just let them be? Give them time to develope even more ascended ICBMs that allow them to ensure their survival and reliably hit the continental US?

I don't understand why there shouldn't be a strike on the NK's nuclear facilities, like there were on Iran and Syrias (even though both of those countries didn't get possess nuclear weapons). As you can probably tell I'm not well versed on this subject but I'm all ears if you'd care to explain to me what's wrong with this line of reasoning.

If the US doesn't act now then I think they never will be able to, that's my issue with being passive in this situation.

>>34811732
If your not a nork you have nothing to worry about.

>>34811780
>30-40 km.

It matters not. It's well within margin of first strike error and they have shown to bomb bases before.

We will splash those missiles.

>>34811785
Let's say Korean war part 2 went nuclear, Seoul gets one, NK gets few in response.

How would Russia and China react?

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Oppen, if you're around, does this graph show that we'll use bomber based nuclear weapons in lower intensity conflicts or Am I just misinterpreting the bomber's primary conventional role?

>>34811811
If Seoul gets one the US will wipe NK.

Russia and China will bitch on the international circuit and do nothing else.

What happens if the Norks don't launch any missiles at all?

>>34811951
Sadly nothing.

>>34811654
>>34811698
Thanks (if this is you)!

>>34801713
Wouldnae the best scenario be some not propaganda'd-up-the-butt nork military bigwigs pull a coup and ship Kimmy and his his loyals to the Hague so the world can laugh at fatty crying on television?

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DPRK is baiting the US to try and shoot them down. If any of the four get through and splash into the ocean, it's proof US missile defense can't protect anyone.

>>34812086
Every BMD destroyer in the pacific will be between NK and Guam. I would be surprised if any get to mid course.

>>34812114
What if it was all a ruse and they're actually going to launch missiles at Japan or the US?

Or initiate a proper ground invasion of SK?

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If a preemptive strike happens, what do you think the Chinese will do?

Huff and puff, but ultimately stand back? Form a 50 mile buffer zone inside Norkland and claim that is ancestral Chinese territory? Flood the population with weapons and explosives and try to cause a prolonged Iraqi-style insurgency?

>>34812130
Either way a fuckton of BMD assets will be between Japan and Korea, hell Japan has basically its entire fleet in the area.

>ground invasion
It does not get fucked, it becomes non existent

>>34811601
Those Nork generals literally have no idea how fucked they are if they seriously believe they can attack US soil and not have the entire northern half of the Korean peninsula get glassed. And that's not even with the US touching it's nuclear arsenal.

>>34812086
it also exposes the operational capability of the interceptor missiles themselves

if they counter any countermeasures, etc.

or at least I assume

>>34812137
Hold their borders and prepare for the oncoming onslaught of refugees.

>>34802126
This is several kinds of felony.

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>>34803985
>the flippers flapping helplessly
Every time.

>>34810202
With advances in targeting we don't need that many anymore.

>>34812282
Why not have 65,000 very accurate nuclear warheads?

>>34811654
Why is it sounding like KPA artillery senior command is almost independent from actual state control?

Am I reading that wrong/ too much into it?

>>34812303
They're expensive as fuck and a giant security risk?

Not every one of those is an ICBM.

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Forget appealing to their sense of self preservation or "mutually assured destruction", how do we know they haven't warped their perception of reality to the point where they really do think they're invincible and can get away with whatever they want? If that's the case then anything could set them off, from trying to write them a reality check to a meme on social media.

So just in case, get that lawnchair set up on the roof and your song of choice playing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I98KeKV_F9g

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>>34812336
Well they should be!

And they should be salted with cobalt too!

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>>34812364
The top brass like cognac and western porn, assume they just want to keep alive as long as possible and it gets a lot easier to figure them.

>>34812402
I hear KJU himself has a steam account

>>34812364
>>34812402
One danger is a sort of mental disease dictators get- they assume that the west is conflict-averse to no end. So they push a little here, a little there, and push a bit more. Like a giant game of chicken- they assume a western nation will always blink first.

In this scenario, Jong-un's plan would be to push and push until he can exercise some real power in the region. His dad may have been happy with threats to get free stuff, but is that all his ambition extends to?

Obviously he doesn't want to get blasted, but how much of a gambler is he?

If we decided to start bombing known Nuclear weapons facilities in North Korea would the Norks flip their shit and try a full-on invasion of South Korea?

>>34812497
You're assuming DPRK command thinks this rationally.

>>34812560
Not him but I'm sure they know what their best interests are, number 1 being to not be blown up.

But if they've done some serious mental gymnastics to convince themselves that that won't happen I suppose it doesn't matter, and trying to show them otherwise might be taken as "calling their bluff" or vice versa.

>>34807913
I think Sweden is the main go-between with Best Korea and US

I wish Opp could weigh in on this, but after seeing that statement from the artillery forces command, I do wonder if the potential for a rogue nuke battery firing off a missile is there, especially if they're whipped into some brainwashed furore with the rhetoric going on at the minute.

>field command and control radios central control
>no response
>paranoia and fear of pre-emptive strike by US at all time high
>?

>>34811621
explain anon?

>>34812730
Not Opp, but I think that is a chance rapidly approaching zero.

>>34812540

Absolutely. They don't stand a chance but they'll try. It'll be quite a shit show.

*clap**clap**clap**clap**clap**clap*

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So I live up in North Dakota. I am fairly certain NK would not be able to reach quite this far but I'm more concerned with China or Russia striking back if we crater NK.

How much food and water do I need to stock up on for 1 person? How long until it is safe to leave the house? My basement is about 10 feet underground with 4 18'x36' windows, is it safe down here or will radiation flood in?

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>>34803079
>a feat no other country has ever managed to achieve

Because the logistics involved in handling a liquid fueled rocket are the stuff of metal album covers. Even the "Tamest" liquid oxidizers put off fumes that can easily maim or kill, nevermind the almost certain death that comes from direct skin contact. So you're suggesting that transporting thousands of gallons of this heinously dangerous chemical around shitty roads, and then filling up a rocket full of it during wartime conditions in the field seems like a good idea? Yes, I can see why no other country has achieved this feat, because they're smart enough to not even try.

Pic related is a description of what a liquid oxidizer used in the 70s does when spilled.

>>34810307
>those
>cute

lol

North Korea is the modern Sparta. US and ISIS stand no chance.

>>34813006
More than you can fit in a basement, longer than you'll have to live, and generally speaking windows are a poor design attribute for a bomb shelter but it's not like the rest of it is fortified either. Unless you're rich enough to get carted into a shelter before the big day you really shouldn't worry too much about it.

>>34813008
>Pic related is a description of what a liquid oxidizer used in the 70s does when spilled.

Nobody uses fluoridating agents in ballistic missiles. North Korea's programs are descended from hypergolic rockets, which are themselves incredibly nasty compounds, but not nearly as batshit insane as chlorine trifluoride.

>>34813107
>but not nearly as batshit insane as chlorine trifluoride.
Does it really matter if you're going to be blown out of the fucking state if you make a mistake anyway?

>>34805764
Reminder that the Cold War ended in 1989 and Russia has nothing to gain from invading the US

>>34811601
gibs sauce, faggit.

>>34812660
What's the number and extension for the Nork embassy in Sweden?

>>34813128
>Does it really matter if you're going to be blown out of the fucking state if you make a mistake anyway?

Yes. Hypergols are nasty, but the metallurgy for containing them and building moving parts like turbopumps is a far simpler affair and far less caustic than fluorinating agents, which are far too vigorous for use in rocketry.

>>34813107
So they're probably using something like RFNA or nitrogen tetroxide + UDMH? If I was better at this, I'd probably be able to tell from the color of the exhaust, but I'm not.

Still, fantastically toxic shit. Wouldn't want to transport or handle any of that in the field, and LOX is probably too difficult to deal with in the field.

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>all that trump histeria
do some people in /k really buy into that msn-hype?

norks have already their timetable for their nukes and icbm since ages - that political bantering is just a suggar couting

>>34813473
>Still, fantastically toxic shit. Wouldn't want to transport or handle any of that in the field, and LOX is probably too difficult to deal with in the field.

Correct on all counts.

>>34813494
>do some people in /k really buy into that msn-hype?
I mean, the guy IS an idiot. His comments are not helping.

>>34813643
>the guy IS an idiot
because??? .... the TV told you so?

> His comments are not helping.
norks doing what they want - say something or say nothing, the result will be the same

>>34813643
And the decades of coddling NK by every president since Truman have done so much to resolve the situation.

Once Fatboy Slim realizes that Trump really is crazy/stupid enough to start a nuclear war because he said something that hurt Trump's feelings then he'll think about negotiating. It's a classic good cop/bad cop strategy.

>>34813720
>muh 10 dimensional chess
>>34813702
and he's not because breitbart told you so?

>>34813702
>because??? .... the TV told you so?
Yeah. Did yiu not like Hilary or single payer because the TV told you so too? Face it, the dude we have running the white house has gone back on nearly every one of his promises and is actively hated by his own party so much, he couldn't do what they have been wanted to do for years (repeal and replace). The convos with the Mexican president should be telling in and of itself.

>norks doing what they want - say something or say nothing, the result will be the same
True, but he has to make it seem like he's "tough" on them. Like the time when a fleet was sailing toward Asia and he made a huge show of it, only to have it move south toward Australia.

>And the decades of coddling NK by every president since Truman have done so much to resolve the situation.
Well, what more could we have done? Started a ground war with the threat of potential Chinese and Soviet intervention, congratulations you have now started a war with three nations close to the battle zone while you have to sail around the world to get there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ussU1sc17iY

>>34813795
>only to have it move south toward Australia.
Talisman Sabre is a well known exercise, and we always have US ships visiting us during it. It's not our fault that you cunts choose to listen to the media 24/7.

to add onto this >>34813795
for
>>34813720
People try their damnedest to make it seem like Trump is some master political navigator and hardliner negotiator, when it couldn't be further from the truth. He seems to make rash decisions based on how he thinks others will perceive him, then try's to deflect the blame when it all goes wrong.
Case in point: the Navy SEAL operation that got one guy killed, he tried to blame it on Obama despite the fact that HE had to give the ok.

>>34813844
>he tried to blame it on Obama despite the fact that HE had to give the ok.
Was Obama responsible for the downed stealth helicopter during the Bin Laden Raid?

>>34813829
>Talisman Sabre is a well known exercise, and we always have US ships visiting us during it. It's not our fault that you cunts choose to listen to the media 24/7.
That's the point I'm trying to make. Despite the fact that those ships had no relation to the happenings in Korea, he (and people in his camp) tried their hardest to make it seem like it was some snap decision to appear tough on Kim.

Also, do you not listen to the media? How do you stay informed? Do you think critically about the media that you do consume for biases?

>>34809449
10/10 fucking gold

>>34813857
Ultimately, yes he was. He's the president of the USA. When the operation was over they probably had dozens of meetings where people were grilling him and the men who participated. That happens in the US military, there are AAR, panels and inquiries about specific happenings to mitigate the chance of it happening again. Even perfect missions are critiqued again and again for points of failure.

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>>34813756
>>34813795

i dont read any "daily news" because the entire concept behind a daily online newspaper is utter garbage.
they drive solely on hysterica and fake news narratives - clickbait - to create as many click as possible and earn a nice ad-revenue with that.
they dont deliver news or information, they just deliver a comlelling but misleading headline to make you click that shit - the articles has usually 0 information value, only opinion - its basically a hyper emotional privat blog of some random idiot who calls himself "journalist" just because he learned for $150.000 at some "prestigious" university how to make a mountain out of a molehill.

i dont buy into that hype and i dont throw my sanity out of the window just so that these fuckers can generate more clicks

i have my weekly political magazine with consists of only guest writers, and these are people who know what they are talking about.
they upload at max. maybe 2 articles a day in their online version, and thats it.
i aint making myself crazy just because some greedy fuckers from these newspapers and TV stations want to earn themselves some easy shekels. im not that stupid.

>>34813884
>Despite the fact that those ships had no relation to the happenings in Korea, he (and people in his camp) tried their hardest to make it seem like it was some snap decision to appear tough on Kim.
And? Of course a President is going to use everything at his disposal to further his ends. Everyone familiar with Talisman Sabre knows that there is always a ship coming to Australia during it. Besides, Trump wasn't lying, the Reagan is now assigned to Japan. What were they supposed to do, send us a diplomatic message saying "Croikey Mates, Looks like our Plane Spear Chucker Land Ute has to handle those yellow fellas up Townsville's way! See ya later, cunts!" or something?

>Also, do you not listen to the media? How do you stay informed?
I check the BBC/ABC News every 4-5 hours, I check /pol/ every few hours (they're not great for opinion things, but for terrorist attacks and so on they're great), and I follow a bunch of experts on various fields on twitter.

>>34813924
>Ultimately, yes he was. He's the president of the USA.
Okay, that is nonsensical. In the words of Tony Abbott, "Shit happens."

>>34813929
>i dont read any "daily news" because the entire concept behind a daily online newspaper is utter garbage.
That's unfortunate, access to information is a godsend to most.
>they drive solely on hysterica and fake news narratives - clickbait - to create as many click as possible and earn a nice ad-revenue with that.
Some do, some don't
>they dont deliver news or information, they just deliver a comlelling but misleading headline to make you click that shit - the articles has usually 0 information value, only opinion - its basically a hyper emotional privat blog of some random idiot who calls himself "journalist" just because he learned for $150.000 at some "prestigious" university how to make a mountain out of a molehill.
See above answer. You seem to have an axe to grind.

>i have my weekly political magazine with consists of only guest writers, and these are people who know what they are talking about.
they upload at max. maybe 2 articles a day in their online version, and thats it.
i aint making myself crazy just because some greedy fuckers from these newspapers and TV stations want to earn themselves some easy shekels. im not that stupid
Ok, next time try thinking critically about the media you consume, even if it is "MSM clickbait".

>>34813968
>Besides, Trump wasn't lying, the Reagan is now assigned to Japan.
This is the most hilarious thing I've ever fucking heard. You claim honesty while at the same time fucking lying yourself! The carrier in question was the Vinson.

>>34802307
>chinks
Oh who gives a fuck? Their responsible for the entire mess anyway. Though SK is a big worry

>>34813795
>has gone back on nearly every one of his promises
repeating lies wont make lies become true
inform yourself again - use some other "sources" than CNN or WP
>actively hated by his own party so much
see above
>he couldn't do what they have been wanted to do for years
for years already? are you on drugs

>made a huge show of it
hello babbie! yes, thats called "show of force"
did you expect him to nuke them right away?
jesus christ - that bigotry
he is damned and a coward if he doesnt nuke them right away and he is damned and crazy if he does, ... as if you have some prejudgment programmed inside you in which trump HAS to be the bad guy.

>potential Chinese and Soviet intervention
yeah, because both just allied with the crazy norks and ruin their own economy and nation for that little fat guy
oh wait, they didnt and they wont
but i guess when TV told you that this will happen, ... well , then you will believe them, right. because, that nice gentleman from that shitbox never lied! right? better buy into the hysteria! always creates so many likes on my facebook! then it must be right! right?!

> some master political navigator and hardliner negotiator
he is, he made american companies pay their shit and invest into the US
the rest needs time - or did you expect that he can do everything in one afternoon? he still has over 3yrs to go, chill out
>when it couldn't be further from the truth
repeating lies

>the Navy SEAL operation
lies again, everything was already planned and everything was ready under obama, trump gave green light to that.
and a killed navy seal guy is rather blamed on the execution of the plan than on the president

but i guess a political babbie like you with the head and butt full of hate will never come to reason
keep hating

>>34807867
Afghanistan was a shitbox in the middle of an ongoing civil war, and Iraq's natural defenses consist of a flat desert highway running directly to their capital. Years is definitely excessive, but Korea 2 could be a much harder campaign than the Gulf, especially if we kicked off without significant reposturing in preparation.

>>34812319

Kim will "graciously" purge some of the high ranks of the missile forces publicly in a few months for treason. This will be around the time the tension eases up and NK fades to the background for a little while, with maybe some lifting of sanctions thanks to the personal efforts of the Dear Leader.

>screencast this

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>>34814138
>there are people who seriously believe Trump's negotiating and management style is proving effective in government
I honestly thought this was a joke

>>34813826
everyone who is an enemy of trump is a friend of the libs and dems
hitler could rise from his grave, start to gass the jews again - but as soon as he would speak out against trump - he would be a civil right heroe of some sort for them.

this entire shitshow is just pathetic
nuke these stone age norks just for god's sake
fucking godless commie shitters

>>34813702
Because I listened to what he had to say, realised it's just not based in reality (goddamn steam) or laughably unhelpful and actively counterproductive (more nukes than ever).
How many exceptions are you prepared to make for the guy? How many times will you look away?

>>34814278
You mean like how so many people on the right idolize Putin because he was against Obongo and Killary?

>>34814293
>>34814257

>>shitposts on trump's privat twitter is a thing now/ he should have the negotiating and management style of a career poltican - like Merkel or Macron!
>oh boy - better hire a good PR manager for the twatter account and stay like that in privat so that little sheeple can sleep tight
yeah, better go with carerr politicans like Merkel with a huge PR team who keep sanitizing her public appearance, okay she fucks the nations up by letting themselves get invaded by millions of third world shitters, but at last her twatter account is PC!
more trannies for the army! totally useless and they hold us back - but at last we are inclusive and a progressive army!

>>34814304
same tribal thinking
humans are still some fucking apes

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>>34814304
literally no one idolizes putin, trolling progressives is a meme.

>>34814304
Virtually all the people on the right side of the political spectrum that I know, absolutely hate Putin.

>>34813494
>histeria
>suggar couting
Subhuman detected.

>>34814138
Holy shit you're autistic. Please leave this thread so we can go back to talking about missile defense systems.

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>>34814536
I agree the average people right of center are no fans of Russia including most of the Republican congress. But you're delusional if you don't think Putinbots successfully shilled during the 2016 election all over the internet. Go look through /pol/ archives at that time for some examples.

>why can't we be friends with Russia it's not 1950 anymore lol!
>haha Europe is full of cucks why are we protecting them we should be friends with Russia instead to cuck them more :^)
>Obongo is not a real leader, Putin is real leader who wrestle bear and rides horseback
>Russia/US alliance to divide the world!!!!

Which is ironic, because the appeasement policy with Russia was the same policy Democrats were pushing just a few years earlier. It worked, too. Trump fans ate it up hook, lime, and stinker which was probably helped by the fact that the Dems had just recently found out that the Kremlin is cold and mean.

Hillary is dead wrong! Anything to root for your team though, eh?

>>34810503
Worth it desu

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>nukes hopefully aimed for Portland
>I can finally leave this god awful piece of shit world

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>>34814781
Can we get a banner of this?

>>34814926
who are you quoting

>>34801713
Their missiles are the ugliest ICBM's I've ever seen.

>>34813968
>Okay, that is nonsensical
How? The buck stops with him.
>In the words of Tony Abbott, "Shit happens."
And he got raked over the coals for that quip. Trump literally tried to blame it on the previous President as to why everything went tits up.

>And? Of course a President is going to use everything at his disposal to further his ends.
U get that, but not when literally everybody who has the ability to check out the US navy Facebook page can see that he was lying.

>Everyone familiar with Talisman Sabre knows that there is always a ship coming to Australia during it. Besides, Trump wasn't lying, the Reagan is now assigned to Japan.
He and his team tried to spin it here (I'm assuming you're not an American) that he snap ordered them too, when you're right they had be scheduled for a year prior. The US Navy even came out and said they had received no orders from the WH regarding positioning. Also, the Reagan has been posted there since 2014, which was an Obama initiative to pivot towards China.

>>34814853
Literally none of that shows any love for Putin, merely stating correctly that a.) We'd be better off working with Russia against Islamists, b.) Europe is being overwhelmed by shitskins as a result of neo-liberal policies, and c.) There's no need for another Cold War (like Obama and Hillary seemed sooooo eager to kick off)

>>34815255
wtf i love putin now

>>34815255
WHY DONT YOU SUCK PUTINS DICK SOME MORE

>>34814138
>repeating lies wont make lies become true
It's not lies if you can read it on transcripts released by the Trump WH itself.
http://www.npr.org/2017/08/03/541432459/transcripts-reveal-trump-told-mexican-president-border-wall-is-least-important-t

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/you-cannot-say-that-to-the-press-trump-urged-mexican-president-to-end-his-public-defiance-on-border-wall-transcript-reveals/2017/08/03/0c2c0a4e-7610-11e7-8f39-eeb7d3a2d304_story.html?utm_term=.5d1cb8f63105

He begged the Mexican President to look softer on the wall issue so he (Trump) could look stronger. That's the equivalent of a 3rd Grader saying "You have to let me win because I'm little". It makes him look like a complete idiot and not capable of making the deals he's famous for. He has to beg to get any sort of attention, either that or he makes bellicose statements that have no basis in reality.
>for years already? are you on drugs
Republicans have wanted to release the ACA for years, which is odd considering it has it's roots in a Republican plan.
>hello babbie! yes, thats called "show of force"
No, he made a huge show of a carrier heading to Korea, when it didn't. He looked like a fool.
>yeah, because both just allied with the crazy norks and ruin their own economy and nation for that little fat guy
You made the claim that other Presidents didn't do much, I made the counterclaim that the UN and US might have been in conflict with both the PRC and USSR as it was still the Cold War and those two countries were very much so still variables when it came to intervention.

>he is, he made american companies pay their shit and invest into the US
http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2017/05/22/carrier-announces-timeline-for-eliminating-indianapolis-jobs.html
from Fox News too
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/05/24/here-is-the-number-of-jobs-carrier-is-moving-to-mexico-after-trump-said-hed-save-them/?utm_term=.65c4f500792e

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>>34804051

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>>34811589
>I've probably blapped a nork general
This makes me moist.

>>34805767
Under8ed

>>34803588
>Pudding pops cure communism
You saw it here folks

>>34807391
That looks like a bomb out of a chinese cartoon.

>>34812086

Actuallly a 75% kill rate would probably scare the crap out of the Russians and the Chinese.

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>>34815255
>a.) We'd be better off working with Russia against Islamists

We do. To the extent that's is useful. Outside of Syria Russia can offer little real help. In Syria, the SDF has gotten along pretty well these past years. It was good for Trump to finally end support for rebels in Syria, something Obama let go on for far too long only to prolong the war.

> b.) Europe is being overwhelmed by shitskins as a result of neo-liberal policies

Okay. The US-Russia relationship has shit to do with immigration policy in Europe.

> c.) There's no need for another Cold War (like Obama and Hillary seemed sooooo eager to kick off)

Cool. There isn't one. Russia is not in a position to sustain Cold War level build up and armament. Sanctions are pretty much the end of it. If Russia doesn't want to deal with punishment from the West then Russia shouldn't start conflict then lie about it. Repeatedly.

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>>34810307
No! Not my Best Korea cuties!

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So is this thing actually gonna pop off or is this blue atomic balls all over again?

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>>34811601
Boy if this is genuinely what they believe, I almost feel bad for the Norks. Anything north of the 38th Parallel is gonna be bombed back to the Paleolithic era.

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It's gonna rain Tomahawks.