Are ironsights even practical anymore?

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>>34790556
only as back ups

Yes. Next question.

>>34790583

source?

>>34790556
If I recall some optics still have irun sites on the top for backup.

>>34790556
Is monopoding the mag still considered wrongthink?

Well, yeah. You've got to start somewhere, to have a good foundation to build solid marksmanship on, and to fall back on in the rare occurrence that you're optic breaks. Teenagers get upset when they hear "start on irons" and call it a meme, since that would take time and patience, and the cool guys in COD never used irons.

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>>34790556
The biggest two advancements in the past 20 years of firearms development have been metallurgy improvements and the rise of affordable, effective and reliable optics. If you're going for a practical weapon, then a modern optic is part of the package.

>>34790604
yeah but those were never good.

>>34790556
you can use iron sights to aim. so to answer your question, theyre very practical.
if youre asking if theyre still viable, thats debatable.

>>34790556
>>34790579
Found the guys who can't shoot.

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>>34790556
Iron sights are useful and practical for shtf situations, as they are easy to use, and to repair, in those situations a broken optic is as useful as a paperweight, other then that literally ANY optic is an improvement.

>>34790626
Well they have been put there for a reason m8.

Having a condom that's slightly too loose isn't good, but its still there doing its job.

>>34790632

t. old man / wannabe old man

With an ar15 at least You can easily snap shoot and hit a target with irons at 150 yards after that you have to do more work. Starting at 275 - 300 yards you have to work at that and really have a good stable stance/hold and rest.

Yes Irons are good to pack in your rig. Great for whenever your battery dies because its out in the heat for to long or cold.

Rear sight aperture should be the small peep for day and a non standard leaf blade type for night time shooting as the large peep is useless in the dark.
( one of the reasons the AK irons are superior in low light, dark for target acquisition)

>>34790556
red dot is a crutch

iron sights dont run out of batteries and their lenses dont crack or get scratched

and if you cant use iron sights to shoot, you can't shoot.

>>34790556
what about no sights? how cum you cant shoot within 1 moa just using implicit motorskills kiddo

>>34790556
Offset 45 degree irons are good as a backup and for quick transitions.

>>34790667
>Starting at 275 - 300 yards you have to work at that and really have a good stable stance/hold and rest.
the implication of your post is that with an optic you dont have to be as stable/hold and rest. you're retarded and your posts are too.

>>34790682
>red dot is a crutch
so is using a gun lmao
>iron sights dont run out of batteries and their lenses dont crack or get scratched
neither of those things are that much of an issue nowadays
>and if you cant use iron sights to shoot, you can't shoot.
what if you have a stigmatism

>>34790556
In the hot and humid thick jungle.

>>34790682
Pretty much this. Optics are nice to have -- even if it's just a $200 optic like a Holosun or SIG red dot. But if you can't see the increased level of complexity or reflexively defend them because you can't shoot irons, examine your life.

>>34790556
>are irons practical?
yes
>are irons more practical than optics?
not really but between unmagnified optics vs. irons you'll probably perform better with whatever you spend more time practicing with
>are irons obsolete?
no
>should optics replace irons
they can but buis are probably still a good idea for the same reason planes still have cannons

>>34790699
mall ninja detected

>>34790810
They actually are tho. They get used a good bit in competition shooting when target distance changes from shorter to longer ranges or vice versa

>>34790613
This

Master your irons and then graduate to an optic. Optics tech has come a long way and are a good investment but don't forget to master your iron first as a foundation for marksmanship.

>>34790635
>other then that literally ANY optic is an improvement.
No. A bad optic is far worse than even the most basic iron sights. A good optic beats iron sights in the right application, but a fantastic optic in the wrong application is worthless.

Good iron sights are simpler, more versatile, more durable, more reliable, lighter, smaller, and cheaper than good optics.

>>34790595
what the fuck do you mean, source?

they're the only way to get a mechanical zero to aim reliably

>>34790665
A bead sight is literally more practical than whatever unmagnified misfocus mess of typical military iron sights.

>>34792111
>I never learned how to use iron sights so obviously they're terrible.

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>>34790556
only ghost rings

>>34792157
POST LINK I NEED THIS

I bet I can still qualify with a better score with iron sights. Than most current soldiers can with an ACOG.

>>34790635
>Easy to repair

Get the fuck out of here. If your iron sight gets bent or broken, it's useless until you can get it to an armory.

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>>34790617
>affordable, effective and reliable optics

i could just buy a second gun for the price of many "good" optics

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>>34792172
https://www.mojosights.com/sample-page/ak-sks/
iirc

>>34792180
Maybe if you're just a better shot then them. And even then it's more effective for someone that's equally skilled to use optics.

>>34792180
the brits found this with the introduction of the L85
solders that qualified on susat got btfo by those that qualified with iorns then moved onto scoped

>>34792213
thank you bwana

>>34792132
I have and the thing is you never focus on the front post or you will never see the target. Except the fact that you however never had a rifle sighted at a minimum of 200 yards and ended up shooting high all the time at a 100 yard or less range.

>>34790556
its still the most cost efficient and simplistic way.

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>>34790556

Former Muhreene infantry here. I trained with irons but obviously we had ACOGs after training with iron sights. And it's easier and more fun to shoot with a glass on your rifle, you can see better and further, but Combat isn't like in a video game or movies.

Here's the main issue with scopes though, they're not very good at clearing rooms or short range contacts. I don't care what people say, but not all ranges are within 5 feet (where you can pretty much shoot from the hip and hit something) or 600 yards (where a scope helps a lot).

>Get an Eotech or Aimpoint) yeah but they do pretty much what Irons do, and they don't really magnify unless you buy another piece of equipment to strap on to your rifle. And of course, being in the military, you won't be carrying Red dots and 4x scopes to switch as you feel fit.

Firefights sometimes happen at 30, or 50 yards, and personally Irons work very well for contact all the way to 600 yards. You guys can hit a man sized target at 600 yards with irons right? If not lol.

They're very useful, come on the rifle, extremely hard to break, and need no battery.

I do have scopes on my precision rifles, but that's another story. On my AR's I run them without optics.

I have a lightweight AR with a carry handle. And that's my go to. Do I tell others to ditch the optics? No, if you shoot better with them, then use them. That simple. But to go ahead and say that you don't know how to use iron sights and that they're obsolete... that's retarded.

When they make a scope that magnifies itself instantly at appropriate ranges, that is just as durable as irons, weighs as much as irons, and is less bulky than irons, while costing as much as irons, then I'll say Irons are obsolete.

To this day and age though, Sand Nigger monkeys with more trigger time on Irons are sniping our soldiers from hundreds of yards away with IRONS.

>mfwnmf when I go to the range and shoot my revolver better at 50 yards than most AR fags do

>>34793407

Drunk, you shall excuse my ramblings

>>34790719
>a stigmatism
>a stigmatism
stop being a retard and stop being a subhuman you astigmatic fag

>>34793407
>rifles come with irons
rifles with manufacturer irons are becoming rarer. actually i think more new bolt rifles come sans irons than with. fucking fudds, man

>>34793685
Almost all boltguns are without irons, as a scope is mandatory. Unless you're talking about Milsurp.

>>34790556
Unless ironsights have somehow magically stopped working over night, yes they are.

>>34793721
>scope
>mandatory
thats where youre wrong, fudd

>>34793685
>>34793721
Wouldn't Irons be the realm of fudds?

>>34792030
fucking preach brother!

>>34790617
What's a slow miss?

>>34793854
A fudd just puts the cheapest scope be on sale at walmart, maybe from Dick's if it's was christmas present.

>>34790719
If you have an astygmatism (like I do), you'll have more trouble with optics than irons, dumbass.

>>34790635
I used to cull bunnies and foxes on the family farm with an old 22-250.

At dusk with a grey bunny in grey grass at 250-300 yards, the slight blur from the (admittedly cheap) scope made them almost impossible to see.

Didn't have that issue once I replaced it with irons.

So I'd disagree, cheap optics are worse than nothing, sometimes.

>>34790610
It was encouraged at Benning Spring-Summer 16.

You can get cheap airshit red dots for 30$
They're not very good but still better than irons.

>>34793407
>You guys can hit a man sized target at 600 yards with irons right? If not lol.
I've never met a marine that could.
Every time I bring my two enlisted marine buddies to the range they miss the entire target at 25 yards with my AK and go "lol bro I'm just better with optic".

>>34793721
plenty of large bore bolt action hunting rifles can be had with factory irons. its normal for safari hunts

>>34790556
From the dirty civie side, it's a hell of a lot easier to conceal a pistol with night sights than a pistol with a red dot.

>>34790556
>are iron sights even practical anymore?
Yes. Because you dont always need magnification and batteries run out.

>>34790579
Even ACOGs are pretty outdated now desu. We've entered the age of gucci low-power variables.

>you dont need magnification
>what are 1x scopes

Unless you buy poverty optics that break whenever, there is absolutely no reason to have iron sights anymore.

>>34795592
>Even ACOG's are outdated

God im getting old, I remember when the RAS was the most gucci thing you could have.

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>>34795601
>there is absolutely no reason to have iron sights anymore.

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>>34790556
I can clank my 13-14" plates from 400 yards with them fairly reliably across many guns. So yes.

I have an almost immediate distrust of anyone who doesn't think iron sights are practical. Similar to anyone who has a punisher logo, blue lives matter, or moldy labia motif on firearms, trucks, or wallets.

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>>34795637

>>34795637
>when u wanna be gangster but you're white and still try to aim

>>34795694
Cat is fine too.

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>>34794021
Hesitating to shoot, and then missing anyways. Worse than a quick miss because you lost chance to shoot again.

>>34790653
>too loose
I have literally never had this problem.

>>34795901
>I have literally never had this problem.
me also, condoms feel real tight all the time and I don't even have a thick dick

maybe like an 1.5" diameter

condoms are jewish tricks.

>>34790595
A source? Go shoot a gun without sights fuck head. Summer is almost over...

>>34790810
Ok but really, where the fuck do you guys live that the mall is selling gun accessories? The only things my mall sells are german roasted almonds and underaged b8

>>34790556
Yes. They are a good backup to other sights. They don't require batteries. They dont produce glint. They are simple to use. They dont increase your weapons weight or increase your weapons profile. They are so similar in function and design between weapon systems that you can pick one up and start using it. They are durable.

Every firearm you own should have irons on them even if you primarily use optics.

>>34794431
Marine corps stopped training with irons in 2011, I believe. I went to boot camp in 2009, graduated January of 2010. After I got back from my first deployment to marjah in 2011, our first boot drop informed us that they never used irons. So it must have been 2010-2011 time frame.

>>34795936
Enjoy your STDs and/or unwanted preggos

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>>34796020
>implying I fugg randos and don't want to be a dad

>>34796028
Enjoy your wife and children, faggot

>>34796032
thanks.
also to you faggot.

I've qualified with irons, red dot, eotech, and acog and always did better with irons. Our company's eotechs all had to be recalled because they'd constantly shut off even with brand new batteries in them. Half way through that qual I just said fuck this and flipped my BUIS up since I missed a few targets having to constantly turn it back on.

Magnification has its downsides depending on your situation since you get tunnel vision and lose an entire field of view around where you're aiming.

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Yes.

>>34790613
>the cool guys in COD never used irons.
Funny that. As I remember it from MW2, nobody used anything but irons because it took longer to ADS with anything else, and to be slow was to be dead.
I do agree with you, iron sights are cool to have and to train with.

>>34796110

i see you also got one of those uncomfortable german poncho things

>>34790613
>and the cool guys in COD never used irons.
It is exactly opposite. Red dots are noob traps pros operate with irons and use attachment slots for another more powerful things like extended clips and deep penetrating bullets.

>>34790556
>>34790632

Not everyone limits themselves to shooting torso sized targets at a 50 yard range. Magnification makes it easier to identify your target at range and the finer sights and larger picture make much further shooting possible. I can hit see a rat's head in a brush pile at 100 yards and hit it, something nearly impossible to do even with a precision rifle and very fine irons. I've never met a person who even pretends they can out-do me with irons but I wish I would so I can rub their stupid face in it when they're wrong

>>34795570
Red dots
Dual illumination

They're good to have as backup and everyone should learn how to use them.
But for practical purposes optics are just plain superior.
Batteries aren't a problem since we have tritium and solar optics now. Even when they do start to die, it's a gradual dimming so you have plenty of time to replacw the battery/tritium.
They're so durable that anything that would significantly damage an optic would also damage irons and many are only a few ounces heavier than irons.

>>34792253
Didn't most militaries discover that, too?

I mean, irons force the user to learn more about marksmanship than "point and shoot" which is (I think) the end result of starting on a reflex optic.

If so, it would stand to reason that those who started on irons would already know the other basics that the optics beginners lacked and utilized the knowledge in different ways that the optics beginners therefore couldn't.

>>34795948
One of the malls near me has a bass pro in it.

>>34794431
>>34796011
>tfw got out in '09
>only heard rumors of boots getting ACOG in boot camp sometime soon-ish
>tfw entire contracts have already been done in the time I've been out
Fuck, i feel old.

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>>34795678
So, this guy, too?

>>34796114
Red dots had the same ADS speed. But as >>34796141
said they used up an attachment slot, so they were only used when the irons were terrible.

>>34790595
where r the proofs?

>>34796331
Yes. Absolutely that guy.

>>34790556
They're sturdy as all hell and cheap.

But yeah, I prefer scopes and reflector sights.

>>34795936
Look, just because you're too shy to buy condoms doesn't mean the rest of us are.

>>34792307
And that is what the other posted said, you never learned how to use iron sights.

Our rifles are sighted for 300m, and from there we shoot from as close as 5m to as far as 300m. My personnal best is the .50 shooter on a technical, at 450m, moving, in 2 cartridges, while sitting.

And I really don't pretend to be an exceptionnal shooter (even tho, the hit on the moving target was pretty neat), every last one of us can reliably shoot at 400m with iron sight accurately.

Focus on this freakin 'front post' (if you mean what I mean, the part that is at the end of the barrel), aim well (respiration, posture, handle, pression of your finger) and you will also be able to hit at a wide variety of range, quickly and precisely with iron-sight, that's all.

Don't get me wrong, modern optics are a blast, but the ability to shoot w/ irons is, for me, the most basic skill to have when you pretend to be a gun enthuisiast.

PS: sorry for the grammatical errors and possible nonsenses, as you probably guessed, English is not my native language, and sometime I have to use convulated sentence to explain something simple because I don't really know how to explain. I still hope I'm readable

>>34796972
>at 400m with iron sight accurately

given that the target is a ring 2x the size of an average person

>>34796972
>sorry for the grammatical errors and possible nonsenses, as you probably guessed, English is not my native language,
>be euro(?)
>write in perfect English better than a lot of burgers
>apologize for it
Every. Single. Time.

Some practical considerations: irons don't fog and don't distort light when they get wet. When it gets wet or humid enough, optics, even good ones, start to show limitations. Granted, you can wipe them off, but with enough humidity it comes back within a few seconds/the water beads up into smaller beads. Im not talking about the interior fogging, I'm taking about the exterior surfaces, so the gas purging doesn't do anything to help that. At that point it becomes easier to just take the optic off and flip up the backup irons. This is why good qd mounts for optics is important - so when weather changes and optics become practical again they can go back on and not lose zero.

Also, my understanding is that given cold enough weather optics can frost over, but that's not something I've personally experienced.

>>34796331
We got one of those driving around Yuma Az too

>>34793407
>You guys can hit a man sized target at 600 yards with irons right? If not lol.
Fucking this. Guarantee you none of these nogunz fags could, thats why they think its so outdated. They dont understand it so they fear it, and everything they know about shooting they learned from COD. If you cant hit a man sized target at 600 yards, you have no business shooting a gun, unless you have a serious vision problem, in which its excusable.

Summer is almost over anon. Itll all be over soon.

>using sights at all
My first gun was an old break action .410 with the front bead broken off. I just learned to shoot by looking down the barrel, its simple shit. I've done the same with my .22s, all have the sights taken off

>>34790556
>Are ironsights even practical anymore?
Of course. Iron sights are preferable to optics in CQB situations. Do soldiers remove their magnified optics when clearing rooms? This is common question I'm faced as a Navy Seal that has been awarded 10 Medal Of Honor's, 37 Navy Cross's, and a Meritorious Latrine Service Badge. Through my vast and long military career of 4 years, the answer to this oft asked question is second-nature to me. Prior to every room breach, a soldier of a squad is designated the 'Quartermaster'. The squad then proceeds to call out "I'm removing my optic for CQB" three times while they do so physically. Then the Quartermaster retrieves the optics from the men to stow in his dump-pouch. At that point the squad clears the room. Afterwards, the Quartermaster hands the optics back for the men to put back on. I should also note at this point that marking your sights with any form of identification to a specific soldier is strictly prohibited. Any violation of this mandate often end in court martial, or penis inspection. To deal with inevitable change in zero's of mixing and mashing the optics, the quartermaster will re-zero every sight on the spot. This generally requires at least a few minutes per scope, including test shots on paper.The process is then repeated on following rooms. I hope this answers your question, OP.

>>34796141
Naked M4 and Desert Eagle with bandolier, sleight of hand and steady aim. All day.

>>34796319
>there's kids born in 2000 getting hazed by DIs right now

Same.

>>34794431

I call bullshit, how old were those Marines?

>>34796011

Mein Marigger

I also graduated 2009, we were the last platoon to use irons. Felt special

>>34798950

Yes indeed. I'm willing to bet the majority of these kids are video game snipers. Never shot a gun in their life.

Personally I enjoy shooting irons as much as my Swarovski glasses. They're both great but irons will always have their place

i find scopes make my eyes hurt after a while and they're obviously kinda useless indoors or at very short ranges

ps kill all marines, go eat some cyanide crayons pls

>>34799694
>ps kill all marines, go eat some cyanide crayons pls

Rude.

>>34799733
....................../´¯/)
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..............\.............\..t.canada

>>34795637
>>34795694
This is the stupidest shit ever.
So when you have close engagements it's when you get the most obstruction to your peripheral vision.
To add to that, every time you have to zero it, you have to do trigonometry.
The iron sights, as purely back-up sights, ok, it's better than not having them. Or haing to take out the scope to use flip ups on the top rail.
But red dot? Just put it on top for christ sake.

>>34800665
>But red dot? Just put it on top for christ sake.
Offset set up allows to use cheek weld. Top position allows to shot from weak side and unconventional shooting positions. First is probably better for hunters and sporing shooters, second for operators™.

>>34790556
They may not be "practical" but I shot so much with them I prefer them over a scope.

>>34801795
I think I often shoot better with irons if I shoot very much at all, just because of the weight savings and fatiguing much more slowly.
Often times the extra scope/mount weight is the difference between a superb feeling gun weight-wise and a gun approaching heavy feeling.

>Fires gun
>Gun hits person
>Person dies
But you used Iron sights so that kill was impractical

>>34799600
yeah mate we're on /k after all. Most posters are no gunz and worship military culture because of vidya but their knowledge ends there.

>>34790613
Same principle as teaching someone to drive on a manual even if they're going to be driving mainly automatics.

>>34794049
Huh. Source on that? Not doubting, but it would explain why I shot better with irons in basic than I did with an optic in Fleet. The real answer is probably that I was more motivated in basic, though.

>>34799694
I don't like the cyanide ones. They taste like almonds and I don't like almonds.

Is there a poison that tastes like pistachios instead?

>>34797851

He used Google Translate.

>May Allah guide my bullets.

>>34802406
Fucking. This. Modern sporting guns are rarely even packaged with irons anymore because no one uses them. There's no sense starting someone on irons if you never use them. If you want to call yourself an expert with firearms and be able to wake up the gong at 200 yards with every thing from a snug nose .38 special to a .338 lapmag to finally retire the tired steel, then go ahead and start on irons. If you're going to shoot Bambi once a year, just learn on a scope and user your scope forever. There is nothing wrong with that.

impractical? Nah
Are they just plain better? Yeah
You're lining up 1 thing instead of 2
Simpler=better
Source:reality

>>34790556
Dem digits though....

Also someone is on that facebook group~~

>>34792182
Gonna bend it back in place with a rock and good intentions.
Fite me

>>34802727
Pistachio ice cream with extra sugar? In the long run that's a poison.

>>34795637
Is this dude just looking stupid?