Why didn't .357 sig get more popular?

>>34780733
Smith and Wesson created the 40 and every retarted agency adopted it. If sig came out with 357 first then it would be more common.

>>34780733
>bottleneck pistol round
>inb4 muh 7.62 tokarev
>inb4 muh 5.7

they arent good

>>34780777
trips of truth
>>34781013
unlucky 13 of memery
tok was developed for ease of mass manufacturing
5.7 was specifically designed for pdw sized HVSC AP role, which it fills perfectly adequately
name a single downside to bottlenecked cartridges in the modern world that isn't slightly more difficult reloading

>>34780733
>38 Super that has the capacity of a 40S&W
Gee I wonder.

>>34780733
.40 came out first and had several years to saturate the market. By the time the .357 SIG came out, the .40 was already a proven cartridge that satisfied what people were looking for at the time. There was no point in switching to some hot new novelty cartridge when you just adopted a new cartridge that fits your needs.

Also, the SIG was and still is relatively more expensive than the Top 3, the full power stuff is even more expensive and harder to get than the weaker generic loads you get a Wal-Mart which are best used for simple plinking. You pretty much have to buy the more expensive ammo or learn to reload your own to justify your purchase. With that extra cost, training with .357 SIG gets pretty expensive very quickly which alone is enough to turn away most LEOs and much of the shooting community from seriously considering it.

The same reason nothing new ever really takes off unless several large agencies hop on board.

You could invent a handgun round tomorrow that hit like a .44 magnum while having the size and felt recoil of a .32 ACP and it would struggle to catch on.

See: .357 SIG, .45 GAP, .327 Federal Magnum etc etc.

>>34781295
except 45GAP was fucking stupid and what exactly was the point of 327?

>>34781419
.45 GAP worked as intended, it just has very little purpose outside its extremely niche role.

.327 was so you could cram an extra shot of real defensive ammunition into an SP101 or GP100, basically. There's nothing wrong with it other than the obvious lack of availability and cost, just like every other perfectly okay boutique round.

>>34781295
Speaking of the .44 magnum, that itself wasn't terribly popular until Dirty Harry. It is too much for combat outside of some special situations and the recoil/muzzle blast is too great for most to truly enjoy. It's a handgun hunter's dream though.

>>34781419
The .45 GAP is an answer to a question no one asked, the .327 magnum allows for an additional shot with less recoil, comparable energy, and flatter trajectory than a .357. I would say it is much better conceptually than the .41 magnum, for example.

>>34781468
I mean, most of the reason it could be called "too much" is the blast and recoil. If you gave me a magic gun that shot .44 magnum with the recoil and noise of a .38 special, I'd never carry anything else.

>>34780777
>checked
S&W also had the .356TSW, which was better on every way to .357sig and still chose to let it die, so that says a lot right there. Between govt contracts and the shift in competition shooting rules the decided not to keep it. .357 had a market for a while till everyone realized it was unnecessary.

Think everyone falls in love with it for a while but that passes. It's not bad but it's not super practical either

>>34780733
Bullet setback is a motherfucker with that round.

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>>34781419
.327 federal is actually good though. It's faults were mostly in the firearm offerings. While it does make a fantastic 6 shot small frame revolver it also benefits greatly from longer barrels AND it gets to one up the .38spl/.357 combo with .32h&r, .32s&w etc etc etc

>>34781898
Hey who doesn't like free pressure and occasional warranty work.

>>34780733
Because for the magazine space you might as well pack 10mm instead, which already isn't that popular.

>>34781013
They can be ok rounds for light carbines.
For some purposes.

>>34781878
>.356TSW
;_;

It's just 9mm ++P++ and a meme.

>>34780733
It has no significant advantages over .40 S&W while doing pretty much the same thing as that caliber.

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The AIDS epidemic took a lot of followers of this round.

>>34780733
because it does nothing better than cheaper alternatives

the end /thread

>>34783119
>t.brainlet

>>34781295
Also .38 Super.

>>34783292
.38 Super sort of made sense back when it was first put to market.

These days, it's more of a competition round, as it plays well with compensators.

>>34783279
He's right though, it doesn't.

>>34780733
>Muh .357 & muh 10mm!

Because it's a hot loaded 9mm and 10mm is literally just hot .40. No one wants to waste money on expensive rounds with such shitty recoil tendencies.

>>34783325
"muh recoil" is a weak argument when it's only slightly more recoil compared to the more popular cartridges such as 9mm and .40, 10mm recoil is by no means painful or uncontrollable at all.
>a world where .22 became the most popular pistol cartridge worldwide
>".32 acp, what are u some kind of masochist?? i prefer to keep my wrist intact"

>>34783325
>10mm is literally just hot .40
Kinda backwards, .40 is neutered 10mm because da wominz in FBI couldn't handle 10.

>>34783325
10mm and .40 are not the same, the case lengths are different, you wont be able to fit a 10mm case in a .40 chamber no matter how strongly built and supported said .40 chamber is

>>34781235
>proven
In what way?
The only thing it proved is that its a terrible round that was dropped by nearly every existing agency that adopted it. There are mountains worth of guns chambered for it that are basically being given away since nobody wants to buy them.

>>34783325
Yeah that must be why people still buy .45s, magnum revolvers and pocket 9mms.

>>34783625
>In what way?

What way do you think I could possibly mean? The organizations and shooters that adopted it who had to use deadly force successfully neutralized their target for years before the .357SIG was available.

>>34780733

Lack of military interest, 9mm will penetrate out the other side of a person already with fmj

Lack of law enforcement interest, FBI already chose the 40 as their super new pistol caliber and it has the same capacity

Lack of hunter interest, it's a small pistol caliber round

If the FBI had waited on 40 and compared it fairly to sig we could have had a better cheap alternative to fill the niche between 9mm and 45. The only people interested in it now are civilians and some police departments who really have an interest in pushing self defense pistol capability. With such a small community itll never get popular abd people wont buy it just because they dont want to worry if their round might not be available in the future or cost too much to shoot further reducing interest. Even with it out performing 9mm luger, if you're that into ballistics you can come pretty close to it with 9mm +p+ or major loads and have a bit more capacity. It's a cool round, I wish it was more common, it just never will be unless some major agency makes it standard

>>34781973

I wish 327 caught on, it would be the snub nose round of choice.

>>34783325

Theres more to it that that but ultimately, when dealing with pistol rounds on humans, anon has a point. 10mm is a more effective game round for penetration but few people hunt with a handgun to begin with.

>>34780733
Ammo availability, or lack thereof

>>34781078
>isn't slightly more difficult reloading
How about inherently dangerous reloading?

That short neck is just asking for setback-induced kabooms. This is the sole reason I have avoided 357sig.

>>34785841
Well if S&W hadn't gone straight to performance center with the 632 that would have helped, but ruger has realized their mistakes and has started offering more practical guns. Conversions are pretty popular too. Ammo isn't really an issue. Just get one if you want one