7.5 swiss armor piercing reloading

>>34778141
jesus

>>34778831
what?

>>34778916
AP ammo is illegal in the U.S.

>>34778920
Except it isn't for rifles

>>34778920
what >>34778935
he said

>>34778920
You can buy blacktip 30-06 and API 7.62x54r at most gun shows.
The law you're thinking of is the AP pistol ammo ban which only bans the commercial sale of said ammo. Rolling your own or owning grandfathered in ammo is perfectly halal

>>34778141
also anyone have load data for 300 blackout for 175 grain bullets for a 10.5 and 16.5 barrel optimized for the highest velocity?
also why arent there any 20 inch 300 blackout barrels for sale?

>>34778961
I love you America. North America best America.

>>34778141
So you are thinking about making yet another fucking Wildcat and only have tangential plans and not the slightest math on it?

>>34779012
this isnt wild cat, this is loading a different projectile of the same caliber.

ok so apparently the length of gp11 projectiles and m2 blacktip are actually pretty much the same with the m2 blacktip being .03 inches longer.
gp11 is 1.37 inches long
m2 blacktip 1.40 inches long

>>34778141
Also the Eidgenössische Munitionsfabrik Thun produced steel core projectiles from juli 1931 till around 1947. Bound in violet charger frames and with violet painted case heads.
As to pistols im not sure as to what you are spouting. There are no pistols in GP11. If you mean 7.5mm Swiss Ordonnance M82, there are just the various revolvers.

>>34778141
Is 7.5 swiss .311 or .308?

>>34779031
Why would you do that when the guns that shoot it have been optimized to shot it?

>>34778961
So only AP pistol ammo is banned, but rifle ammunition isn't?

>>34779111
its 308, actually a little less than 308 at 306 or 307.

>>34779111
.30059

>>34779135
stupid politicians and "muh cop killers"

>>34779135
yes.
its fucking retarded and just used as back door gun control to ban cheap surplus ammo. same with the bullshit about banning ''machine gun barres'' or ''always a machine gun rule'' or banning norinco but not other chinese products.
fuck, even in canada you can have ap ammo. steel core 7.62 tokarev is allowed there but not here.
if im ever in canada ill get a gun permit there for visitors and smuggle a couple thousand rounds of it over to the us.

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>>34778141
Weeeooo weeeooo autism detected
Get a $400 AR-15 and some m855.

>>34779203
LOL m855 has a small 15 or less grain MILD steel penetrator.

>>34779135
Yes.

What's even more fucked up is that a shit ton of military surplus pistol ammo and even RIFLE ammunition that's not even armor piercing is banned from import because the way the law was written.

Basically, any ammunition that uses anything but a lead core and can be used in a handgun is automatically classed as AP ammo.

>>34779178
>banning norinco but not other chinese products.
To be fair it was Norinco that was selling at equipment to black hoodlums.
That reminds me about Leland Yee. As of March 25, 2016, Yee is currently incarcerated at FCI Ft Worth. He has the Federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP) register number 19629-111. His release date is currently listed as July 31, 2020

>>34779223
don't pay him any attention, he paid $50 for a box of ball ammo during the scare and is desperately trying to justify it to himself

>>34778141
You could do it but you're probably going to have to work up your own load for it.

>>34779236
Norinco is explicitly banned from exporting their guns to the U.S., it's every single Chinese rifle or handgun. Doesn't matter if Norinco made it or they didn't, if it's a Chinese rifle or handgun then it's barred from import.

Except shotguns. Why? I don't know.

>>34779284
isn't*

>>34779236
oh cmon, that was just a fucking excuse to ban cheap chinese ammo that any american could afford to buy thousands of rounds because its so cheap. it also was welfare to american ammo and gun makers. also wasnt that basically an atf honey pot? and quite frankly i dont care if they sold machine guns to gangs or rocket launchers since those should be more or less legal anyways. and they could made it temporary, 10 years, or given them a large fine, or something, but instead they just straight up banned it. no more 5 cent steel core 7.62x39 for you, you have to pay 22 cents for russian steel cased, better hope we dont take away that too.

>>34779284
oh that too. it wasnt just norinoc but all chinese stuff.
yeah its just back door gun control.
ammo isnt a big money maker for them. sure theyll ban guns and ammo but not iphones or toys or clothes or really anything else.
fuck clinton.

was it by executive order? can trump repeal it?

>>34779317
AFAIK, the Chinese rifle and pistol ban came about as a condition. Bill Clinton promised to renew China's most favored nation status if they stopped exporting rifles or handguns to the U.S., but they could still export shotguns to us.

Then, in 2003, Bush 43 enacted sanctions against China for selling missile technology to Iran. The sanctions included banning Chinese shotguns from import. But the sanctions were lifted sometime later and we can get their shotguns again.

>>34779378
>>34779378
But why is ammo banned then?
And can trump repeal this bullshit?

>>34779406
most favored nation status is enforced by the World Trade Organization. So I don't know if the President can modify the agreement himself or if the WTO has to be the one to do it.

As for ammo, I forgot to mention it also included rifle and pistol ammo. China can export shotgun ammo but they don't.

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>>34778141
You're going to need a chronograph. If the m2 .308 diameter bullet is similar enough to 7.5 swiss just load three or four cartridges per experimental load that increase powder in increments... so for the first load I'd put the recommend grains for say a 200 grain bullet, then 190, then 180 etc. Keep the cartridges segregated so you know whats what. You could even sharpie different colors in the rim of the case, whatever you do make sure you know which ones are which.

Shoot your lightest load first, three or four of the load to check for consistency and get an average velocity. Check your spent casings for pressure signs, like flattened out primers or cracks in the case. If it looks good and you're not happy with your velocity go up to the next load. Rinse and repeat until you are happy with your velocity or start seeing pressure signs, whichever comes first. Be careful because you will be tempted to push these things as hot a possible, but if your only seeing minor flattening of the primer you are probably okay.

So basically work up your load in increments using a chronograph to achieve the desired velocity / maximum safe loading. Once you figure that out you can load one after another and know how they will act. Keep a notebook of your findings so you remember what worked and what was too hot or too weak.

Then you can start shooting steel plate to see what it can penetrate. Have fun. Be safe.

>>34779446
Don't have a chronograph.
Can't i just go based off of loadings online for 7.5 Swiss? The m2 is only .03 inches longer and probably .002 or .001 inches larger in diameter, or equal since Swiss measured bullet diameter differently and the actual bullet diameter is the same at .308.
I was thinking of just pulling the gp11 projectile and replacing it with the m2.
Maybe also adding a little bit more powder to increase velocity.
The barrel length is almost 25 inches. The current powder in gp11 is a double based powder apparently.

I've also never reloaded before. This is my motivation to reload. That and 300 blackout and 458 socom and 45-70

>>34779429
Lol how are they gonna enforce it? They're not a government entity. For all I care they can get 911d again and this time they're not the ones that orchestrated it.
Or a series of assassinations of their officials. Yeah that.

>>34779561
If any President can get rid of that IDK why they haven't yet.

Probably something like that wouldn't be a high priority for the President compared to other stuff.

>>34779446
Also 7.5 Swiss has a case capacity closer to 30-06 than to 308 Winchester. The max pressure is 55k psi, or that's what I think it is. I believe gp11 is itself 45k psi.

>>34779580
So? All it would take is type out an executive orde and sign it. It would take maybe 10 minutes.
If trump does nothing for gun rights in the next 3.5 years he can go fuck himself.
I haven't even heard him mention the HPA once. So many things he could do, like open up the mg registry like by telling he ATF to accept mg registrations.

>>34779545
Man I don't know about pulling a bullet, adding powder, and then inserting your m2 ap pill. I'd be very apprehensive about mixing powders, like I wouldn't effn do it. If you're motivated to reload you are going to need a chrono, otherwise you don't really know what your load is doing.

Do whatever the hell you want, but I'd go ahead and get some pulled m2 ap bullets in whatever quantity you can afford. There are machine pulled that are cheaper and work but may not be as accurate as collet pulled. Might as well get these now because there's a finite supply. Then get some powder and a chrono. Then start experimenting and see what works.

>>34779622
If any type of pro-gun legislation is gonna happen in his first term, it will probably be 2018.

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While we're talking about ap shit what do you all think about these? Supposedly repacked 220 count m2 ap, they normally come in green tuna cans. I could only find one example of these online. Would they worth more or less than the green cans? Same?

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>>34779783
What's inside.

>>34779732
This is by executive order and department control. He controls the ATF and he can tell them to do whatever he wants or appoint a new director. No congress needed.

>>34779806
I'm not talking about NFA amnesties. I'm talking about changing the law through congress.

>>34779723
Do you really need a chrono if you have your calculations? Would be nice to have but you can figure out velocity mathematically or just what it should be.

>>34779815
Ok but he can do that now, why doesn't he?
And he can definitely do things with executive orders.
How about using the justice department To go after anti gun politicians and activists?

>>34779825
What is freaky about m2 ap is there isn't really any reloading data out there. It's a longer yet lighter bullet like you said earlier. If you are confident in your calculations you will probably be fine. Anytime I've reloaded, even when venturing into uncharted waters, the velocities were very close to what I expected based on bullet weight, barrel length, and powder load. But it is also very reassuring to have the math confirmed with repeatable real world data that is provided by a chronograph. It's also interesting to see how factory loadings perform, sometimes they are far different than advertised. Also, once while I was reloading 9mm, I had one way under what it should have been. All the others in the batch were fine, but I had a light load in one.

I like using one, but again if you are confident then go for it. Just keep an eye out for signs of too much pressure.

>>34779545
Not reloaderanon, but no, you're going to have to work it up properly with a chronograph because of the 168 grain bullet weight and the need to setback due to OAL constraints.

>>34780088
The m2 is only .03 inches longer than what is already in my gp11 7.5 Swiss so I figure I'd get the same if not higher velocity since it's a bit lighter. Does the m2 ap use a copper or steel jacket?

>>34780260
Copper over hardened steel penetrator. The slightly longer bullet length will increase pressure a bit as you know. If you're not going to use a chrono then don't add powder for the first few for fuck's sake and check them for pressure signs.

>>34779284
Shotguns are regulated by the Department of Commerce while everything else is handled by the Department of State.

>>34780260
GP11 has a steel jacket while M2 will have copper or steel depening on age and factory.

>>34778141
I wouldn't fuck with the powder charge

>>34780300
It's .03 longer.

>>34780402
Will a magnet be able to tell me if its copper or steel?
Is that relevant to pressure?

I mean a steel jacket is harder which means it will stay in the cartridge longer since it takes more energy to over come the friction vs the much softer copper jacket.

>>34779236
fuck that hypocritical gook chink fuck
>from an ex-califorian

>>34780381
So I guess that explains it.

Any reason why Commerce controls shotguns where the state department controls the rest?

>>34780605
A magnet will tell if steel core or jacket but is not so good at telling the difference between them.
>>34780685
Just a guess but probably related to the fact shotguns were primarily used in market hunting when the departments were given their various responsibilities..

>>34780833
Oh that's right. Steel core would make the test worthless.

>>34780840
To check for steel core just pull a bullet and check the base. If it's not visually clear can do a hardness test after exposing the core.

Jesus why is 7.5 Swiss brass so expensive?
I mean actual fmj ammo from ppu is only 60 dollars more for 500 rounds.

And also fuck Obama on banning the importation of Tula primers that I would use to reload the berdan primed gp11 cases and fuck trump for not removing it.

bump for interest

>>34782530
2nd