Yugoslav People's Army

>>34763331
Considering 99% of their equipment was Soviet/Soviet influenced take a wild guess.

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>>34763331
They had plans for both contingencies.
>And would they have had the strength to actually fight an invader or do the invading?
Not really, their doctrine of Total People's Defence and the domestic arms industry was based entirely around attrition of an invading force by the state-level Territorial Defence, with limited direct engagement by the federal army proper.

>>34763447
During Stalin's and to a lesser extent, Brezhnev's reign, it was the Warsaw Pact that was feared as the aggressor, NATO moreso during the Khruschev period and before the Tito-Stalin split.

>>34763331
They were leaders of the neutral block for a reason

>>34763461
Thank you Comrade Tito

>>34763447
But didn't Yugoslavia and the USSR have very bad relations, what with the Tito-Stalin split, after Stalin got butthurt he couldn't "liberate" Yugoslavia and turn it into a Soviet puppet state?

>>34763532
Correct. Tito wanted more control over broader Balkan affairs, Stalin could not allow it.
Anon >>34763447 is a moron.

>>34763461
Funny enough the doctrine of Total People's Defense kinda proved itself in the shitstorm during the breakup, where state-level Territorials were reformed into armed forces of their respective breakout republics, and no side could effectively wedge into other republics (besides Bosnia, who was more or less split into primarily ethnic territories that were formed during the war) successfully without ultimately losing the battles of attrition like Siege of Sarajevo or Vukovar.

Brotherhood and Unity

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>>34763569
>Funny enough the doctrine of Total People's Defense kinda proved itself in the shitstorm during the breakup, where state-level Territorials were reformed into armed forces of their respective breakout republics

Yeah that was the great irony, though totally logical. The local state police and T.O. forces formed the nuclei for the separatist's armies - of course they would.

The real tragedy, symptomatic of the causes of dissolution, was the federal army becoming a de facto Serbian institution and subsequently giving major support to the Respublika Srpska.

Read this if you wanna get dem yugoboo feels.

>https://balkanist.net/the-forgotten-soldiers-of-a-dead-country/

>In the spring of 1988, my dad could not have imagined even the faintest possibility of an internecine war. Yet, just three years later, he was tasked with delivering the news of the death of Sašo Gešovski to his parents in the Macedonian town of Kavadarci. This 19-year-old JNA soldier was killed on 6th May 1991 in Split, Croatia by Croat nationalists and is remembered as the first JNA victim in what everyone at the time assumed would be a short conflict. He told me that it was the hardest thing he has ever had to do. He couldn’t tell the 19-year-old’s parents that their son died for a higher purpose, that he died a noble death. Sašo Gešovski was to become one of the young soldiers and officers in an Army that had tragically outlived the country it was meant to defend, and he would soon be forgotten by everyone.

>>34763461
>Not really, their doctrine of Total People's Defence and the domestic arms industry was based entirely around attrition of an invading force by the state-level Territorial Defence, with limited direct engagement by the federal army proper.
Wasnt a part of the plan for the military to withdraw into the mountains and wage a guerilla war against the invading force?

>>34763661
>Wasnt a part of the plan for the military to withdraw into the mountains and wage a guerilla war against the invading force?
That was the role of the Territorial Defence (TO), which was essentially the National Guard, governed by the constituent states, not the federal government, which controlled the Yugoslav People's Army (JNA) proper.

The TO was for guerilla combat/long-term attrition, the JNA was more flexible and conventional, but depending on the situation would likely have operated to support TO operations and vice versa, depending largely on whether central command and control was extant or not.

>>34763331
tito was a communist. what do YOU think, dumb ass.

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>>34763447
>>34763688
Please don't proffer opinions based on your own ignorance.

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>>34763688
Maybe do some research before spouting bullshit on topics you don't understand, dumbass.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tito%E2%80%93Stalin_Split

>>34763688
>>34763447
China was both communist and also used Soviet based equipment but that didn't stop them from helping the US fight against the Soviets in Africa, Afghanistan, most of Asia except Vietnam and all over Africa. Yugoslavia wasn't allied with the Soviets, Tito still hated the Soviets, and they kept trying to assassinate him.

>>34763569
It also fucked Serbia over in the '99 bombings because we have military bases/garrisons right in the city (in case of shit, THE PEOPLE get armed by the army and can wage guerilla tactics on the AGGRESSOR/OCCUPATOR).

What happened was that there were military targets to shoot at right in the outskirts of cities in Serbia, and they got bombed, and there was shitloads of collateral.

Really came to respect the US putting their military bases the fuck away from cities, arming their own people via 2nd amendment and having a real professional army that doesn't rely on conscription.

t. serb

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>>34763659
>Sašo Gešovski was to become one of the young soldiers and officers in an Army that had tragically outlived the country it was meant to defend, and he would soon be forgotten by everyone.

Fuck.

>>34763882
As a serbfag, I live right next to a (now defunct) garrison. It isn't even in the outskirts, it's right there in the center.

Yugoslavia, in case of shit hitting the fan, pretty much expected People's Liberation Struggle (ie. Partisan resistance) v2.0 as the meat of their doctrine rather then conventional warfare.

>>34763909
Also disliking our government talking shit about reinstating the draft and obligatory military service. Seems like someone's daydreaming partisan resistance 3.0 in this day and age.
If we actually had a real army we regular taxpaying fucks wouldn't ever need to actually get yelled by a drill sarge fuck for 3 months.

such is life in a shitty eurobanana state

Thoughts if partisan resistance 3.0 could accomplish anything? It's not like we're backwater mudhut dwellers with little to lose, I like my food, water, heating, AC and 50mbit/s optical internet access.

>>34763923
I'm all for something akin to territorial defense being formed, considering our army is in shambles and could only be considered useful in case of an unexpected Albanian incursion, perhaps Bosniaks (not that ever is likely to happen anyways), and would collapse in days. But that is not to say that our leadership, in any way, shape or form, isn't completely pants on head retarded about reinstating the obligatory military service. They couldn't even not get fucked over a deal with Russian (buying fucking BRDMs and inferior T-72s to our current T-72 upgrade/copy from the 80s for fuck's sake), let alone form a resistance force.

If shit got real again, the regular army is likely to collapse after some cases of valiant but ultimately futile defensive fighting, and an organic Partisan resistance is likely to form, though one not exactly permissive towards our ass licking leaders at large (much like the original Partisans). Also I'd expect there'd be much sectarian in-fighting between various factions, so the one that managed to secure most wide, non-ethnical national and economic goal is likely to form the backbone of a functional resistance (again, much like Tito's Partisans).

>>34763923
>>34763969
cont.

Also have you notices how retarded our gun laws are? We're the second country in the world when it comes to numbers of firearms per capita, yet you can barely legally own a pistol. Best you can hope is a hunting rifle, and in that case, God help you if it's anything more then a bolt action or a double barrel shotgun, even if the law technically does allow semi-automatic firearms of certain barrel length (within the category of hunting rifles). And only last year are you no longer constricted by the 60 pieces of ammunition limit (outside of shotgun ammo). In spite of that impressive guns per capita ratio, most of our population is woefully inadequate when it comes to handling and care of firearms. Shit is absolutely embarrassing. It's not surprising our totally progressive pro-EU ''don't hit on me silly Russia boys ;*'' whore-house of a government isn't permitting wider scale of civilian firearm ownership, considering an armed revolt would not only be likely, but entirely necessary.

>>34763992
My biggest gripe with this shitshow, I need to magick up 200EUR to get specific training to use a firearm (shotguns, pistols, rifles are classes), a doctors note that I'm sane and fit to own a firearm (This note costs 30ish euros, but the note for "sane to adopt children" costs 20ish EUR, ridiculous), godda get the gun registered at your local law enforcement... All this shit to do just to get a double-barreled shotty that's 100ish eur or less.

Horrible. Your gun ownership is also taxed per year, 10eur-ish but the interest rate is doubled if you miss the payment. /own 3 guns, miss payment, 60 eur, miss second payment, 120 eur for 3 years in a country where you earn ~2500eur per year.

I hate being sold the idea that the albanians/bosniaks/sandpeople/NATO/EU/aliens could attack us or whatever shit they say but don't allow me to gear up like it's gonna be ww3 soon. The hunters societies and sport shooters lament the older days where it was simpler and easier.

>>34763992
>wanting to be subverted by Kremlin active measures
>ever

>>34764015
This artificial atmosphere that we're facing a war ANY TIME NOW is just a fucking shit show for the government to consolidate power among the people who are beyond jaded by this point at various, if not all, post Communist parliaments. The shit has reached a point of absurdity where some legit last living Chetniks (anti-occupation pro-royalist resistance turned anti-communist Axis collaborators for our dear foreign reader) I know lament for the good old days of socialism. And fuck, you know what, they're right!

The taxes and licence shit is ridiculous, do you know how much I had to wait just for a transfer of a pistol from my grandpa, even after I completed all the shit and passed the test, paid my 150ish euros for everything. Know what the best part was, druze? I was taxed for the three months I had to wait for the pistol to reach my local MUP unit so I could pick it up. And this was before the ammo restrictions were lifted.

>>34764025
>Serbia
>under Russkie active measures

You wish buddy. You wish. We're really fucking nowhere. Not in the Russian sphere of influence (though we are trying our darmnest for that), not under EU, most certainly (thank God) not under NATO. We just kinda try to be neutral, despite constantly being fed with the story that albanians/bosniaks/sandpeople(Croats)/sandpeople(ISIS)/ NATO/aliens/Soros have our number.

This thread is exactly why /k/ shouldnt have anything to do with real political power and strategy.
Observing everything from a superior-firepower-and-support kind of way makes you forget about the human element and even the most basic social element of a war between countries.
Armaments, training and superiority have little to no meaning in wars lead outside the Anglo sphere. All countries except Serbia had no armies and almost no armament but had very strong feelings for separation from Yugoslavia for lots of reasons (centralisation of power, most officers in the YNA being Serbian and Montenegrin for centralisation reasons) and all of those ex Yu countries brought Serbia and Montenegro to their knees, with a little help from NATO bombs (mainly because no other Yugoslav country had any airforce).

More /his/ and less bang bang

>>34764015
>>34763992
>>34763969
>>34763923
>>34763909
>>34763882
Croatian-American here, family from Dubrovnik.
Where do you guys see Serbia going from here? How much desire is there to go full EU?

>>34763659
The JNA was always Serb dominated. The problem was that JNA stood by when Milosevic overthrew the governments of autonomous regions in Serbia and more importantly the government of Montenegro. The later one killed Yugoslavia because Milosevic got 4 out of 9 votes in the presidency and was moving to secure the fifth one as well ether in Bosnia or Macedonia. Seeing shit going down Slovens decided to leave, with them leaving Croats realized that Yugoslavia would be dominated by Serbia so they chose to leave as well, and than Bosnia and Macedonia fallowed. And only than did JNA remember that there was a constitution, not when Milosevic was destroying the constitutional order but when republics decided to exercise the separation article of the constitution.

>>34763882
>>34763909
Maybe if Serbia wasn't an absolute scumbag, it wouldn't have ended up the most ostracized & cucked country in Europe and Russia's whore on the side.

>>34763331
They would stay neutral until there's a clear winner

>>34765907
t. Alboshit.
Not like you are faring any better.

>>34763992
This is usually what happens when you're on the losing end of a war. Happened in Italy, Germany after WW2. Vietnam, even in Kosovo, & Iraq. When the winning country rolls in, they confiscate all weapons. They make sure the new Gov doesn't foster a policy of resistance. They will allow for a limited military enough for a national defense.

But, you post:
>an armed revolt would not only be likely, but entirely necessary
is exactly why these policies are in place, dumbass.

>>34764723
Hello friend, to answer your question, our government is very much pro-EU and is constantly pushing towards Euro integrations and so forth. People on the other hand, not so much. Everyone is very euro-skeptical, considering our constant years of transition and euro integrations haven't really improved the quality of life. In fact, none of the old Yugoslav republics reached the standard of living that they had in '89 (a penultimate year of a long and horrible economic stagnation). Personally, I'd much rather have normal relations and economic cooperation with our ex-YU brethren, which seems to be in sight, in some distant, though not very distant future. Slowly as new generations forget atrocities of war and are less inflicted by the absolutely artificial climate of tension created by our politicians to further consolidate their power, we have really no one else to turn towards but each other, we share the same language(s), same history(ies) and most importantly, same culture.

Dubrovnik is a beautiful city, I hope you have at least visited it once.

>>34765907
I never said we weren't scumbags during that war, we helped destroy our great country just as much as any nationalistic separatist, perhaps even more, considering Milosevic started gutting the principles of ''brotherhood and unity'' first, before Alija and Tuđman got the same idea. But every side was pretty shit, hell Croatians pretty much did large scale ethnic cleansing after the peace conference. Just so happened we had the biggest stick to push our agenda.

>>34766005
Slovene here, I rather be the worst country in the EU than be a part of the Balkans again. Simply go fuck yourself.

>>34765987
>>34765987
Resistance wouldn't be necessary if there was an actual effort of raising quality of life over twenty years and counting, instead of squeezing every bit of money into their own pockets and making empty promises of a better life awaiting us. The imposed measures of regulation that cut on pensions, wages and workers rights are absolutely criminal and needless, besides protecting them from the dept they made during a period of theft. They're not going against the wall for being a occupational government, they're going against the wall for being a thoroughly corrupt, and shamelessly so, government.

>>34766028
>having worse GDP in 2017 then 1989 when adjusted for inflation

>>34764539
First off, Montenegro didn't really play an active role in the wars besides providing conscripted soldiers, most of which did not want to be there, nor fight Serbia's war. Within Montenegro, Muslim communities did not fight and terrorize their neighbors nor did they spread Islam by the sword. Also, I believe they took in a lot of refugees of from Bosniaks and Kosovars.

I see Montenegro's vote to split from Serbia as proof of Serbia's fault in all that business over there. Most republics in former Yugo broke away with some sort of violence most due to long standing animosity and along ethnic lines. After all was said and done, the wars over, Montenegro said: "Serbia, we need to talk - it's not us, it's you. Good-bye"

Montenegro is the perfect example of how to live. They have Montenegrins (sort of Slav/Serbs), Croats, Bosniaks, Serbs. Kosovars, Albanians, Muslims, Catholics, Orthodox Christians, etc living in in peace.

>>34763923
When shit hits the fan you'll be surprised by the discomforts you can get used to

1945-1956 = West

1956-1964 = Soviets

1964-1984 = many ups and downs, overall a bit more friendly to the soviets

1984-1991 = slightly more inclined to the west

>>34763882
You faggots got bombed because you're the niggers of Europe.

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More than likely they'd try to ride it out while responding to any armed incursions. Yugoslavia was stuck between PACT and NATO, blatantly siding with one or the other was going to lead to problems hence them going for neutrality.

>>34763461
thank you comrade Tito

>>34766005
New generations are far more nationalistic than old ones. Anyone who thinks that things will mellow out is ignoring the reality that nothing has been settled. Now things might settle by themselves as demographics and migrations reduce conflict points but I wouldn't bet on it.

>>34763331
they couldnt even beat bordering countries like Bulgaria/Romania/Hungary in war, the fuck are you talking about