Trump suggests firing U.S. commander

>>34738909
what does "winning" mean?

>>34738934
Neutralizing the enemy, achieving objectives. You know, same shit since the beginning of human history.

>>34738909

Define "winning the war"

>>34738949

What enemy?

What objectives?

In that case, Trump should get fired because Democrats are still around, even though he's president.

it sucks to be a general, if you don't win the war you are fired

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>>34738949
well, if you actually look at history Afghanistan is where empires go to die.

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>>34738909
>Why HAVEN'T we won?
Because there is no achievable goal to win. We have been there for enough years that unborn children are now grown adults and shooting at us. The singular goal we did have, kill Osama Bin Laden, has supposedly been achieved. Mission accomplished. We can now leave this zealous goat farmers to their devices.

>>34738909
Because the country was a shithole before and we have knocked down what little they had. Now it's filled with terrorists we created.

The retard in Chief won't be able to "win" Afghanistan even if he focused all his autism at them.

>>34738909
>Why HAVEN'T we won?

Go watch War Machine on Netflix. It's not very good, but it does a good job of showing why Afghanistan isn't winnable.

>>34738969
well, shit. we cant just come right out and say what that actually is anon. because you know, we don't have fixed goals. we just want to go around the world swinging our dick in everyone's face because we're team america, fuck yeah

>>34738969
ISIS, Al-Queda, Boko-Haram, and the Taliban if they don't give up by the time we get to them. The goal? Making it so that it becomes impractical for terrorist uprising to occur in the Middle East.

How do we accomlish this goal? Well shit, the only ways I can brainstorm an answer involve reducing the popultation of the ME to a more managable size.

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Send fags and trannies to teach Pashtuns that true Islam is the religion of peace and tolerance.

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>>34739042
Same way bongs did in Malaya, uproot almost a quarter of entire population to guarded new villages where they work the cash crops and taught pro govt education.
Decades later remaining terrorists are given free housing, rubber plantation, tax breaks, 8 years of food supply and a decade of paid bills.

>>34738909
>Is it because of outdated RoE that don't account for terrorist tactics?
The only RoE that could defeat an Afghan insurgency is complete unrestrained genocide.

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>>34738909
The funny thing is that the US has had actual experience fighting an equivalent of the Afghan tribes, and we won handily.

The secret is to treat it as a generational annexation process where you import your own people and gradually wipe out the indigenous people.

>>34739336
This, only way to win hearts and minds is to replace theirs with yours

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>>34738957
>>34738969

>>34739042

Bomb the shit out of them.

>>34739336
>the only way you can win is by genocide
american tactical """"""""""""""""""prowess""""""""""""""""""

>>34739373
Tough luck doing it in this time with pol and other nazi groups that does not honor human rights.

>>34739199
Malaya worked becuase of the ethnic divide between the Chinese and the Malayan's. Not nearly as easy and clear cut in Afghanistan.

>>34739398
Great argument, mouth breather.

>>34738909
For whatever reason the US didn't use what worked during the Moro rebellion nearly a century earlier.

>>34739474
Theres no point in making an argument when all you're doing is just asking questions to lead down pointless rabbit holes.

War is just an extension of politics. There are goals set by the US and the DoD clearly the commander is not meeting those goals.

>>34739420
but that will hurt peoples feefees :(

better to just import them en masse and let love conquer

>>34738909
We invaded the wrong country. The US should of invade the tribal regions of Pakistan or maybe further.

>>34739762
>invading a country that owns nukes

>>34739543
>There are goals set by the US
there are?

>>34739424

Do you have a better plan, faggot? We could ship all the muslims into your country, to gang rape your mother. Europeans love it.

>>34738981
What a dumb comparison. Trump never promised to get rid of the Democrats. Also Trump has a point. He's clearly not working since the US is still bogged down there.

>>34739762
this is the real reason the taliban will never be wiped, all they have to do is run over the border and they're home free to regroup. ISI helps these groups for whatever reason too, probably invited Osama to live where he did.

>>34739798
>there are binary options: either exterminate everyone or import them all
Retardation seems to be quite severe with you, I'm afraid

>>34739859

Stop lying using green text and post a third option.

>>34739859
yeah lets hear it reddit import

I say we dump a bunch of spent uranium fuel rods in their lakes and rivers. Then we blow up everything we can't ship back and ship back everything else.

In ten years their cancer and mutation rates will be so high. That it will make the after affects of Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and Agent Orange look like a cold. They'll hate us and want to kills us, but we will have already destroyed the population and their spirit.

>>34739842
It's well known fact that the Taliban's "Shura" reside in Quetta. The US can't conduct drone strikes there, but the one time we did we killed the Taliban emir.

>>34739875
>>34739925
how about not go frolicking in those countries in the first fucking place. Pull the fuck out and let them sort out their own fucking messes

>>34739996
>warcrimes: the post

>>34740068
only losers get charged with warcrimes, by the winners. who is going to try and arrest americans for them? sure a bunch of people might be bared from entering other coutnries or be under threat of arrest. though we can kick the can up to Trump.

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>>34738969
>war on terror
>war
>on
>TERROR
one does not simply defeat the terror
(now eliminating a gorup is realistic)

there was no clear objective, imagine saying "we declare war on bad stuff and we are going to do it by sending troops to country whateverstan...

the criteria for an objective has not been defined

>>34738985

it also does not help that we left a power vacuum after spending decades teaching extremists that outsider bad, afghanis good

>>34738949
OUT FUCKING STANDING

>>34738934
making the enemy bend to your political will.

>>34739014
Or, perhaps, anon listen to me. Perhaps just MAYBE when your dick is stapled to the floor and you are unable to do anything but patrol around waiting to get IEDd because muh ROE and muh Hearts and Minds, you just can't "win". Problem is what needs to be done is aggressive wiping out of any and all militants. That is the ONLY way you can destroy shit like ISIS, AQ, Taliban, etc. Problem is the world likes to collectively bitch piss and moan if so much as one "innocent" person is hurt.

>>34740400
Sri Lanka did.

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>>34740473

>carpet bombing/ fire bombing cities is acceptable, because non combatant the women and children who die would have grown to work in the factories an be soldiers

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>>34740620
>when faggot cucks act like civilian casualties and destruction of the environment are unacceptable options in wartime environment
>forgetting Sherman
my city was razed so you faggot liberal yankee hipsters could wear scarves and frenchkiss jamal. FUCK you.

>>34738985
Sure it is

>>34740665
One day brother, we burn ohio to ashes. soon.

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>>34740665

>lets just nuke any country we don't like, its not like the fallout affects other countries we are allies with

>>34740759
>carpet bombing/firebombing cities
>clearly the discussion was civilian casualties from conventional weapons/warfare
>hurr wut about da FALLOUT from NUCLEAR WEPPONS??question mark.?
you are FUCKING retarded. Please, put a fork in your temple as soon as possible!

>>34740684
right on

>>34739798
Yeah, we can leave. We went in to take out the Taliban and OBL. We did that, now lets get out.

>>34740665
>my city was razed
Should have fought harder then.

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>>34740803

is there a difference? all the people you don't like die, and as an added bonus, you only spend money on 1 bomb instead of millions... nukes are clearly the best option for total annihilation

>>34739336
that is a completely retarded analogy

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>>34740848
>civilian casualties when neutralizing the supply chain (production of weapons, training facilities, farms that supply food for the war effort etc) is the same as dropping a nuke
DUDE lmao go play in the street with the neighborhood kids. You are clearly at a stunted level or just really uninformed and not thinking before you post.

>>34740473
The people of Afghanistan, it's government, and even it's warlords did not do 911. It was a retarded idea to invade and occupy and the nation's longest war has been a failure and embarrassment.

>>34740759
Nukes are fake and you have autism. Hiroshima is doing better than Detroit right now, which means niggers are worse than nuke.

>>34740890

since WW2 the entire population of a nation has become the center of war, that was the intent of deterrence by mutually assured destruction

there are only to ways to completely ddestroy an enemy

>kill any and all persons affiliated with the group
>convert any and all people of the group

the first is the military strategy, the latter is based on the assumption that you can force people out of their belief system (by forcing culture on them)

>>34740942

to elaborate on this point, modern wars (western style) are not two armies fighting each other anymore in the style of pre-WW1

>>34740942
The problem is that islamic terrorists are correct theologically and you can't "reform" islam to make them incorrect.

>>34738949
Akhmed is in the Taliban he gets neutralised but then Akhmed's brothers friends goat's cousin gets upset and joins the Taliban because Ahkmed was a good boy he dindu nuffin and was just caught up with the wrong people.

>>34740975

exactly why "hearts and minds" will never work, they are "hearts and minds" proof by their culture

>>34740975

if only American culture was that sure of itself, we would be unstoppable

if you changed their hearts and minds into american ones... how do you think americans would react on having their land being occupied by an aggressor who also tries to teach them how they should live? :^)

be honest, you want to change their hearts and minds into servile and obedient ones

>>34738909
1. Go full Israeli: find out identity of dead Taliban fighters then go bulldoze the houses, fields, and tools of their relatives.
2. Get rid of the ANA and make providential military units.
3. Afgan government makes their own internal security force.
4. American troops stop being goody toeshoe spreaders of democracy and just build airbases in Kushk, Wahadat,, Qarqin and Helmand surrounded by a 8 mile radius not american = shoot it zone.

>>34741004
It's not about being sure about itself.

Islamic theology and law system is based on 3 things. 2 of them are sources - Quaran(which, unlike some people would lead you to believe - has only one proper way of interpretation due to rule of abrogation) and Hadiths(which have different legal status, some are considered law-binding some aren't, some are fake etc.) which you can't modify or build up upon them - and muslims are generally discouraged from interpreting them on their own unless they're in position that makes them even remotely to being "scholar".
The 3rd is scholarly consensus which can't be reverted and neither you can have a scholarly consensus that is in conflict with some previously established one. As you can guess, things like death penalty for leaving islam or jihad as physical, material war were subjects of scholarly research that resulted in consensus more than 1000 years ago

Everything "extremists" say is correct and "moderates" are either lying or technically apostates. Islam can be destroyed, but it can't be reformed into "peaceful" religion. The Islam is religion of peace is one of the best PR stunts muslim lobbyist achieved. For muslims, peace means that in given area everybody is muslim and sharia law is the law of the land. If islam doesn't dominate - then they talk about "House of War".

>>34740665
because destroying the infrastructure in Iraq turned out great

>>34741097
your understanding is poor and biased.
there are multiple ways to interpretate the quran, this is established by numerous scholars throughout the centuries given so many books on the topic with so many different attempts at explanation, of a number of topics so there isnt 1 interpretation. the idea that the scholarly consensus cannot be questioned and adapted is also incorrect, the scholars themselves even disagreed on how to tackle the differences and some rulings from some scholars are opposite to each other yet both are accepted. also islam warned against extremism and to stay away from it. including descriptions of isis centuries ahead of its time. this idea that 'extremists' are correct and 'moderates' are wrong is the exact opposite to what islam actually says. you need to study more without bias in your heart. i do wonder if you actually work for isis? if not they'd pat you on the back for helping spread their message. you'd end up fighting for the wrong side which is exactly what they want.

heres some educational vids to help you be a better american and open your eyes a little more. remember the majority of people fighting isis and these various groups are actually muslim not americans or other non muslims.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7264903.stm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYedKXpb5mo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZASGOWgTYrk

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>>34740910
mein neger

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>>34738909

>>34739500
Very few people here will get what you are referring to.

>>34739462
This is true. But the Brits made us compulsory to have official identity cards with unique ID numbers for each person. Those who didn't have it were shot. Only way to have it was to move to controlled areas. If you're a commie and hid in the jungle, you won't have the card and get shot on sight. All tinned foods were also controlled to prevent sympathizers from smuggling food to the commies. Perishable goods were rationed as well. They poke a hole on the side of the tins after sale so that it won't last long. The Brits also made it a death penalty to smuggle weapons. If you had unlicensed weapons, you get shot. Same thing with ammo. Each and every bullet sold to civilians were recorded and accounted for. The Brits also created the White and Black zones. Black zones are areas where commies were active. Anyone there with no official business gets shot. In essence, they used the carrot and stick method very well. People saw the hardships of the commies vs the easy life of being anti-commie. It was not just Malay vs Chink. In fact, since Chinks make up 30% of the population, it actually made it harder to control.

>>34740400
War on Drugs is a total loss. What makes Drumpf believe he can win the War on Terror. By the way, what did Mathis achieved so far?

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>>34741724
> An unsubstantiated legend has been circulated about Pershing ordering Moro juramentados to be buried with pigs because they allegedly believed that they would not go to heaven because of it.
Based

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>>34739500

>Not all of Davis' subordinates were as diplomatic as Pershing. Many veterans of the Indian Wars took the "only good Indian is a dead Indian" mentality with them to the Philippines, and "civilize 'em with a Krag" became a similar catchphrase.

Sounds about right.

>>34738934
/thread

we need to define winning

define combatants

define area of operation

all these things are infinite, thus the war is over

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>>34739336

>>34739435
wat

>>34744660
I never understood why the solutrean theory appealed to poltards. Sure it lends credence to muh european exceptionalism, but who fucking cares when those "europeans" existed 22,000 years ago.

You might as well hate yourself because you descended from the mitochondrial eve in southern africa.

>>34744777
I dont think it ever made it past hypothesis, let alone made it into a theory. Its an interesting take on the issue of NA colonization though.

>>34738949
You can't win the war without beating the enemy and the civilian population into submission

>>34739336
yea and it took 400 years of fighting to finish the job.

>>34738985
>moghul empire

>>34738981
Dems aren't an enemy. They're the opposition party. If we were a single party polity, we'd be a totalitarian shithole. Kind of like what Venezuela is trying for.

>>34740473
Yes, that's why the Russians won 2 decades prior.

why is the US and nato even in the middle east? it seems like US and their cia has been constantly fucking up the mid east ever since ww2. isn't it just for oil and israel?

>>34740665
I hope to fuck it burns again soon.

>>34745149
It's to keep the ME perpetually weak and divided, as well as check the influence of the generally Russian/Chinese supported Shiite countries by propping up Sunni ones.

>>34745036
i dunno how you are even a democracy with only two hundred years old parties

>>34738969
>What enemy?
ALL Muslims
>What objectives?
Their complete annihilation.

The question then, is the US Military actually capable of it? I have my doubts.

>>34745211
well its no wonder white nato countries are getting stormed by hordes of ME immigrants since they made the ME such a war torn poverty stricken shit hole. the elite profit from all this war and oil while the common people has to bear the burden of taking in foreign refugees they dont want.

Pakistan tolerates the Taliban and other elements because they are afraid that Afghanistan and India will become too friendly, putting Pakistan in a serious position. America is seen as only having a short term role in the region so this is their long term strategy to help secure their neighborhood.

>>34745218
good luck with that, Hitler 2.0

>>34739336
But we didn't wipe them out, we put them on reservations and gave them free everything.

>>34740829
Except the taliban is back and stronger then ever, and OBL is currently doing lines with bush at the ranch.

>>34740065
Ain't gonna happen. When you're the most powerful country in the world, everyone's business is our business.

>>34746408
>we put them on reservations and gave them free everything.
The reason why that was even fiscally feasible was because there were barely any of them left. Due to the wiping out. Also we didn't give them everything, they have some of their own laws and that's about it. They certainly aren't living in luxury for the most part and we're already forcing a pipeline from a spill-prone oil company through their lake.