9 equals 40 equals 45

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>>34713288
Still not sure?
Underwood 10mm has a 165 grain gold dot flying at 1400 fps producing 720 ft ilbs of energy
Like more mass? They have a 180 gold dot at 1300 producing 680 ft ilbs.

Worried about recoil? Simply search YouTube for videos of glock 20s being shot with hot 10mm. I think you'll find that fast and accurate follow up shots are certainly very possible with a bit of practice.

>>34713288
>not carrying a super sawn off double barrel 12 gauge everywhere you go

You can send eighteen 00 pellets at a dude in a fraction of a second.

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>>34713318
The key of course to being proficient with a 10mm is practice. Good thing that brass cased, non remanufactured ammo from a well known supplier can be had for about the price of 45 ACP. For $350 you can get 1000 rounds of s&b 180 grain.

10mm isn't for everyone - that's why few if any major departments still issue them. But for those strong twisted few who want a bullet that is far more powerful than 9mm, in a gun that has great capacity and still fairly easily carried, then a glock 20 in 10mm is the best way to go.

>>34713339
>pellets
I'm not shooting squirrels ya homo

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>>34713288
10mm works great on wild hogs, given that redguard love to eat/ fuck pigs 10mm should be a nutural choice.

Go tell someone your going hog hunting with a 9 and be prepeared to be laughed at

(Yes I know it's not a hog in the pic)

>>34713288
>ballisticians

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>>34713417
>facklerfags

165 gold dot at 1400 fps looks kind of like this

I really want a Glock 20, the only issue is the lack of an external safety.
>inb4 trigger discipline
I want it as an innawoods gun and as such id much rather have a safety.

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>>34713288
Why are 10mmfags the most insufferable posters on /k/? If you like your over juiced cartridge so much, if it's "The Only Choice", then why do you constantly need to project onto others and seek not just acceptance for your cartridge choice, but affirmation. You fuckers are worse than homosexual and trannys

>>34713363
>pellets with a .45 diameter moving at 1500 fps

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>>34713451
Tnoutdoors9 described the permanent would cavity from a 180 underwood gold dot unlike anything he'd ever seen

>1.5" wide, 1 inch deep permanent would cavity that's 9 inches long before beginning to streamline
>18 fucking inches of penetration

>>34713288
>muh power

Anything that is not a rifle caliber being fired from a carbine or rifle incapacitates via blood loss unless you get a heart or CNS hit. A more powerful handgun round has more recoil but is still just a handgun round in terms of power.

>>34713492
>18 fucking inches of penetration
Sounds like what I did to yer mum last night

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>>34713480
More people buying 10mm ammo means more hollowpoints being produced, more 10mm handguns being designed, and more range ammo being produced which means lower prices.
I also like to shit on other people with my superior cartridge.


>inb4 I don't apreciate the advantages of 9 in smaller guns
When I'm commuting to and from work 5 days of the week I have a glock 26 in paddle holster in my glove box should I have to make a stop.

>>34713497
>Implying magnum calibers (10mm included - though certainly weaker than most) don't bridge the gap.

10mm has 50% of the muzzle energy of 5.56 while also being much heavier and nearly twice as wide (these things hurt muzzle energy %s)
9mm has only 25%

Saying that because 10 is fired from a handgun it is the same as 9mm is fucking retarded

>>34713288
>OP confirmed for being a newfag
I'm getting pretty sick of people claiming to have a revolutionary cartridge but ignoring 45 70

>implying 720 ft/lbs is good when you can get 4000+ ft/lbs out o a 45 70

It's like these newfag trolls aren't even trying anymore

OP come back when you pick a real cartridge that wasn't designed for limp wristed faggots

>>34713288
I'm considering a 10mm EAA Witness for a camping/hiking gun for mountain lions and black bears. Any downsides to these? Are the higher price point versions worth it?

>>34713536
Muzzle energy =/= terminal ballistics. There is no appreciable difference in terminal ballistics between 9mm out of a 4.5 inch barrel and 10mm out of a 4.5 inch barrel against human targets.

>>34713536
Empirical data:
>M193 from a fucking 20 inch barrel has 1300 ft ilbs of muzzle energy
>180 grain gold dot (from tnoutdoors9s test) from a glock 20 has 705

Then you factor in the fact that most have a 14.5 inch to 16 inch barrel and I'd ventur to say that 10 has 60-65% of the muzzle energy.

>9mm 124 has 360

>>34713571
>no facts to back it up
>THEYRE THE SAME!
>rifles have some special property other than muzzle energy which makes them more lethal

wow your stupid

>>34713544
Come back to me when you can conceal a 45-70 on your hip as easily as a p30

>>34713468
For innawoods just go empty chamber.

Alternatively get a s&w 1006 and larp as an 80s detective in Miami

EACH round of 10mm has 50% more energy than 9mm.

This means that with 10 rounds of 10mm you're getting literally 500% more energy than 9mm. It really adds up.

>>34713637
Actually it has 100% more energy

(360 ft Ilbs vs 720)

So by your reasoning it would have 1000%. Comparing similarly size guns
A glock 20 has 1600% more ernergy on tap than a p30.

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>>34713674
*energy

>>34713604
Why is it that no major law enforcement agencies use 10mm for their duty guns then?

>inb4 muh female agents

Even countries that don't bend over backwards for the sake of gender egalitarianism do not use 10mm for their duty guns either.

>>34713288
9mm is approaching its limits even with more modern and exotic propellants.

.45 super/ 450SMC is superior to 9mm outside of capacity.

>>34713692
Because it takes time and money to train someone to be proficient with one. Not feasible for large police departments. The ammo cost at even 35 cpr isn't that big of a deal for a single shooter, but for 100 or a 1000 of them? The costs add up.
Couple that with the fact that other than federal (who markets it as a hunting bullet) no mainstream ammo manufacturer is producing 10mm at proper levels of power.

>>34713480
This. Fuck off 10meme fags trying to justify their dumbass snowflake purchase

And stay btfo by 454, 460 if you just want a dumbass hot handgun cartridge

>>34713513
Do you also keep your registration and insurance in that glove box? If so then you use the kind of logic expected by a retarded 10mmfag and when a cop magdumps you with 9mm when you spill your 10mm spaghetti during a traffic stop your last breath can be "10mm has double the energy"

>>34713604
Even easier actually. It's called a 45 70 derringer.
>stop proving my point about you being a newfag

>>34713288
10mm is just overkill for humans and the higher recoil makes for more difficult follow up shots. That's why police and FBI opted for .40S&W, which is just 10mm short, because it's the same width but more controllable. Don't forget, unless you're shooting Underwood loads most commercially available 10mm are not that hot.

Now the FBI, and various PDs, has officially ditched .40S&W and is returning to 9mm because they realized that more shots on target delivered quicker is what matters most.

>>34713288
9mm is cheaper
This means I can practice more, and therefore make hits more.

9mm is lower recoil
Which, in theory, means I'll be able to make hits more effectively.

50% more energy doesnt mean anything in a miss.

I'm not saying that you can't git good with 10mm, I'm just throwing out the reasons I stick to 9mm.

>>34713785
Nope keep it in my wallet

>>34713823
Implying your velocity number won't be shit and your 2 rounds will stop anything

>>34713834
Nope no handgun cartridge is overkill considering the power of rifles. 10mm simply gives you the most power with the most capacity in a gun that is easy to control. You also forgot double tap, buffalo bore, federal trophy bonded and maybe even sig vcrown. FBI adopted 40 because they're 1076s we're hard to control with 10mm Norma. Glock 20s have far less muzzle flip due to the lower bore axis, and most of the recoil issues were with female agents and inexperienced paper pushers. If you're serious about getting gud with 10mm recoil and muzzle flip shouldn't be an issue

>>34713844
All three of those are true, except it's actually 100% more energy. I also said that 10mm
>isn't for everyone

>>34713772
>justify
Nope
Just trying to get more people purchasing 10 which will lead to more guns chambered in it, cheaper range ammo, and more hot loaded hollowpoints.

>>34713834
They switched because 40 has little if any ballistic advantage, unlike 10mm

10mm is meme for glock fanboys who can't afford a decent hunting rifle and/or handle .45 because of noodle arms.

http://www.gunthorp.com/Terminal%20Ballistics%20as%20viewed%20in%20a%20morgue.htm

All I gotta say.
With that being said the reason why .357 mag is good is the same reason why 10mm is good. Velocity and weight

>>34714199
>Implying if you can handle 10 you handle 45 "recoil"
>implying everything is a meme

>>34714213
From similar sized guns 10 actually performs better, but 357 mag is good too.
The biggest thing is that double stack semi autos are superior to revolvers in recoil mitigation, capacity, etc.

>>34714237
Give it a good read senpai. You're convincing me to go 29/20 over a 19

>>34714304
Will do anon

I'd get a g20 and a g26. G29 is pretty hard to control and the shorter barrel isn't great for velocity. Just use the 26 when your clothing won't conceal the 20 or if you need something to take on and off (going into work).

>>34714113
No, they switched because 9mm is easier to train with and a bit cheaper.

>>34713288
>"most ballisticians"
>Dr. Fackler, Dr. Roberts(his protege), Youtubers/bloggers who literally parrot their talking points and link they're articles posted in their own personal journal that they both make and edit.

>HMMMMMMM

Wow, so like about that

>>34714923
List any report that offers a dissenting opinion.

Even if 45 was slightly better than 9, 10mm shits on both of them

>>34715009
>report
You mean any like scientifically conducted and valid one? where it was peer reviewed, their results were replicated by others, and they in turn had their results/methodology published and properly reviewed? Because that's the standard that the rest of the scientific world uses before considering a theory to be proven.

If you on the other hand want want anecdotes or professional opinions then those are rather varied on the subject and can certainly be had.

>>34713288
>Most ballisticians today agree that the major service calibers today have roughly the same performance
No, they don't. Stop claiming a consensus you don't have.

>>34713451
Ballistic gel is a meaningless gimmick.

>>34715141
>>34715057
No sources, no names just shitposting

>>34715151
It's the best medium for testing bullets. Another good medium is hunting, in which case 10 millimemer again trumps the competition.

Get fucked faggot

>>34713288
>Most ballisticians today agree that the major service calibers today have roughly the same performance and as such 9mm is the preferred choice because of its low recoil and capacity.
And most morticians agree that 9mm is still under powered and regularly skips off bones because it lacks the mass/inertia to maintain momentum, and it lacks the velocity to overcome the lack of mass. That's why 9mm pistols need so many rounds.

Those cartridges are all inferior to the mighty .25ACP.

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>>34715191
All the more reason to get a 10mm. I still like 9 in subcompacts though

>>34715177
What? I don't need a source to prove a negative. Do you even know how arguing works? Either there's proof fackler/gkr's results have been reviewed, reproduced, and re reviewed or there isn't. There isn't any proof that I've ever seen or heard of.

That's an observation that anyone with a basic understanding of the scientific method is qualified to make.

It's you who needs to produce evidence of these things happening to be "right". My position is the correct one by default otherwise.

>just shitposting

That's like the brainlet go to answer these days isn't it?

>>34715226
fackler/gkr and most importantly wolbergs*

>>34715186
>It's the best medium for testing bullets.
It's only the best for testing what bullets do to ballistic gel.

>Another good medium is hunting
No. Far too many variables involved in hunting.

>>34715244
>only good for testing what bullets do to bg
FALSCH! It's meant to compare handgun bullets performance, just like water jugs, and pine boards were used for in the past. No one actually thought that bullets would make someone explode like water jugs, however they were able to make comparative analyses in a controlled environment.

>a bullets performance through an animal isn't a good indicator of its performance through a human
Wrong again, shot placement being equal or similar, hunting allows us to see comparative penetration through flesh and bone in a living creature. Are two animals going to be the same? Of course not, but from a collective experience with different hunters posting their experience we can come to a fairly accurate consensus - such that 10mm is superior to 9 for hunting javelinas.

This thread is about 10mm, go shitpost somewhere else you faggot

>>34715226
Well obviously it is incredibly difficult nigh impossible to scientifically prove wether one caliber is better than the other. Professional opinions from men like Fackler or Roberts or organizations like the FBI are the best we have on this subject. If you'd like to respond with someone who has a respected opinion on the matter please go ahead. I wasn't arguing that the logic that 9 = 40 = 45 was undoubtedly correct, just that GIVEN that logic 10mm should not be camped in with all of the other WEAK handgun rounds.

>>34715338
While i agree that 10mm is much powerful than other service calibers (9/40/45) and the mere word of the FBI and 3 scientists with an extremely incestuous relationship are currently the best founts of information I strongly disagree as to the conclusiveness of their results.

Whether or not they are actually correct is also independent of whether their science is good/thorough.

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>>34713288

>ballisticians

>>34713785
I do. I have my insurance/registration out of the box before the cop even exits his car.