Will non-stealth fighter aircraft ever be built again? Or is

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The T-50 proves you can combine stealth with excellent aerodynamics. Its stealthier than a Flanker, it holds a similar amount of fuel while being slightly smaller and it maneuvers better.

So yeah, stealth is not an detriment at all and will be a standard design feature for any aircraft from here of on.

>>34712736

Probably. Stealth technology is still far from being accessible to most of the world's aerospace engineering firms, and the only countries producing them are the U.S., China, and Russia (to varying degrees of success). Having aircraft that are less detectable to enemy radar will certainly be important in the next Ace Combat-level air battle of the future that the USAF constantly jerks off to.

However, for air forces that have actual budget constraints, the only affordable option (for the foreseeable future) will be to maintain fleets of conventional, multi-role fighters that can provide the highest value-to-cost ratio.

>>34712736
When people really start realizing that we don't need a 5th Gen multirole stealth aircraft to bomb Abdul, Hassim, and cousin Babali we will officially adopt some sort of non-stealth traditional plane like the Super Tucano or a low-tech jet.

>>34712842

Except the T-50 is hot garbage. A turd in the shadows still stinks.

>>34712842
>tfw it'll be designated the Su-57 Flapjack

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>>34712842
>The T-50 proves you can combine stealth with excellent aerodynamics

The F-22 already proved that.

>>34712860

Aren't most NATO countries with budget constraints buying the F-35?

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>>34713027

>NATO countries
>Budget constraints

I was talking more like countries with ACTUAL budget constraints, like Uganda

>>34712736
We will see conventional from 2nd-tier and particularly 3rd-tier nations, at least until the conventional jets are just no longer in production. Then they may have to just go Textron Skorpions or TA-50s, or helicopter/SAMs for AD.

It's just a matter of cost/benefit/ability to maintain.

>>34712977

I'm sure that the Su-57 Felcher will be in mass production any day now!

>>34712842
0.5 m^2 RCS is not stealth senpai

>>34712736
The Korean fighter under development will not be stealth in its first iteration.

Yes. The HAL Tejas is still under development, and there will always be a need for a jet whose primary function is ground-attack, and not air-to-air.

>>34713312
>>>/m/

>>34712736

Low intensity conflicts will never go away.

By the time anti-sour defenses are advanced enough to counter gen 4 aircraft we'll have moved on to drones or will have advanced countermeasures that you can slap on via a pod to a hard point.

>>34712842
you mean the thing the F-22 proved 20 years ago?

>>34715329
>you mean the thing the F-22 proved 20 years ago?

in a sega saturn video game?

>>34715382

F-22 entered service trials 20 years ago

>>34712907
Yea I'm sure china would love that you chink

Of course. Trainers aren't.

>>34717949

Trainers aren't fighters either, did you real OP?

>>34713312
PakiFa to reflect it's shittiness.

>>34718014
they can be fighters though, or more accurately, attack aircraft. all you need to do is apply a small upgrade for armament carrying

>>34712736
stealth will rule up the the point of impacting aeronautical performance.

>>34712736
>stealth
the only one fooled by stealth is the American public

>>34722007

> t. increasingly nervous Slavaboo

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>>34722007

And the Russian and Chinese, aparently.

>>34722150
And Dassault, SAAB, BAE, GmbH, Mitsubishi, TAI and KAI.

Pretty sure the only people who don't believe in reduced RCS are Spreylords and flanker wankers, the people who actually develop fighter aircraft have been doing it since the 80s-90s.

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>>34712736
>tfw we spend buckets of money developing stealth air craft and a single breakthrough in alternative radar renders it all moot.

>>34722337

It's called the Arms Race.

It's all part of the process.

You think tank designers just stopped designing tanks when guided missiles showed up on the scene?

>>34712842

Say it with me :
PROTOTYPE
(and also not reviewed by anyone, safe Russians)

>>34712736
The big question to answer your question is :
Do you care if the enemy can see you ?

In some conflict, you might very well not have to worry about anti-aircraft weaponery.

So why pay a lot of money for throwing a few missiles and bombs if you could do it for 1/10th of the price without real difference ?

There will always be a market for cheap aircrafts.

>>34722337
No breakthrough would ever render stealth completely moot. Stealth is not a binary thing, and being 10^6 harder to detect than your enemy is always an advantage.

>>34713036
they never buy current generation aircraft anyway
when we move on another generation, F-35 will be old cheap tech like used older F-16s are now and those nations will start buying stealth
eventually, nobody will make non-stealth jets again

>>34712736
>>34712860
>>34712907

small prop-driven planes like the super toscano make a lot of sense in fighting insurgancies and terrorists. The advantage is the cost. AC-130 is also awesome in this sort of thing.

>>34716496
The money saved from using super toscanos to bomb backwater shitholes would mean more the US is better equipped to fight major battles too.

>>34724091

By that time stealth-detection will have advanced to the point that those planes are no longer considered stealth.

Stealth isn't something that will eventually belong to everyone, it will always belong to only those on the bleeding edge

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>>34722177
For what it's worth, India is supplementing the their Su-30s with Rafales for that very reason.

I have a wild erection for something as cutting edge as the F-35, but significantly bigger, with like 4x the amount of hard points, and no focus on stealth but goes fast as fuck. Like SR-71 fast.

Incredibly difficult to run out of missiles, you'd have to down the entire Chinese airforce.

Doesn't necessarily have to maneuver thanks to all the fancy tech from the F-35, just fucking spitting missiles left and right, and behind and below lmao

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>>34727701
>Doesn't necessarily have to maneuver thanks to all the fancy tech

>>34712842
>Not actually stealth
>Russian-tier engineering

>>34712978
I lmao every time I see Americans try and pretend their planes can do the same shit Russians do.
Because you actually know where all this is going don't you?
You can always strap-on better avionics on a frame, but if your frame is overpriced dogshit meant to steal taxes, you will eventually get fucked up the ass by people that built actual planes, instead of buckets.

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>>34731639
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfYElZi9QTk
vid related

>>34712736
>Will non-stealth fighter aircraft ever be built again?

Yes, they just won't be pilotable.

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>>34712736
Stealth always was part of military aircraft, camouflage being the most obvious. Nowadays it's about radar signature but it's just a detail in history, tomorrow there will be something else.
It's like asking if speed and payload will play a role in the future. Yeah, nothing new...

>>34722337
>TFW i don't know how radar works
>TFW i think i know better than the pentagon secret squirrel defence analysts

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>>34722337
>tfw we spend buckets of money developing alternate radar and a single breakthrough in novel stealth renders it all moot.

>>34731652
>just fuck my energy up senpai

>>34731639

Slavs have it the wrong way around. You can't easily go back and add in low observable features and electronics distributed throughout the airframe, but you can easily design and integrate a new HOBS missile that can fire backwards at a myopic barn-RCS Slav-plane.

>>34731639
Vatniks actually believe this

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a very tiny bit of the aircraft market is stealth, damn kids, go back to school.

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>>34712736
>non-stealth fighter
A fighter designed to draw as much attention as possible?
Could be funny to have as a diversion tactic I suppose

>>34732631
>B-52 with massive metal protrusions to maximize RCS
>gas generator hooked up to multiple gigantic aluminum balloons, each with an RCS multiple times that of the B-52
>chaff going fucking everywhere
>the bombs aren't actually bombs, they're drones with their own gas gens and balloons
>the pilots don't even have the privilege of lighting, warning sirens or even modern avionics, all electricity from the engines is sent directly to a massive ECM system
>on all military frequencies it jams
>on all radio frequencies it plays VOA
>on all TV freqeuencies it has one of those displays that you see in aircraft where it has the live position over the ocean and you're like "wow we're in the middle of nowhere" but you're actually over beijing and not in the good way either
>flares going off continuously
>oh and the entire thing acts as an AWACs

>>34732431
>F-35 VLO
>F-22 VLO
>B-2 VLO
>B-21 VLO
>J-20 LO/VLO
>FC-31 LO/VLO
>Both Russia and China are working on VLO bombers
>Euro ucav and fighter will be VLO
>Korea,Japan and turkey working on VLO/LO
>T-50/Su-57 LO
>B-1B LO
>Rafale has RCS reducing features
>Super hornet has RCS reducing features
>typhoon has RCS reducing features
>J-10 has RCS reducing features
>gripen has RCS reducing features
>Mig-35 has RCS reducing features
>Su-35 has RCS reducing features
>a tiny part of the aircraft market

1m^2 is the absolute max these days you ramlet, anything more is india tier.

>>34712736
a non stealth fighter? hmm...I don't think so unless it uses a jamming system that is guaranteed to shed laser lock, IR, and generally fuck the guidance system in the missile itself.
In that case the plane can just design around armament, maneuverability, and said jamming system.

Point of stealth is to prevent enemy defense systems from being able to pick you up and allow you the first strike, as well as to give you the edge in a fight since you lock them before they can lock you.

a stealth less fighter cannot get you that first strike. if it has the aforementioned hypothetical jammer, it can get you the second item.

In a pure dog fighter air supremecy kind of plane you might not need stealth, you just want it to kill everything in the air and prevent enemy missiles from being able to get a hold. actually a plane like that in a carrier group would be pretty boss. but a little redundant right now, we've got the 22.

>>34732898
>f-16
>f/a-18
>f-15

>>34733071
>all designed before RCS reduction was out of the black world
>all have planned redesigns to reduce RCS
>modern build F-16 actually does have some RCS reduction measures.
>Wild weasel squadron F-16s use RAM paint.

>>34733279
>f-16
>f/a-18
>f-15
>small part of the aircraft market

>>34732664
Can we paint it gold and bright ""zombie"" green?

>>34733289
Market means aircraft available to purchase you nugget.
>last F-18C made in 2000
>F-18Es have RCS reductions
>F-16s being sold today have RCS reductions
The F-15E derivatives like the SA and the Su-30 are pretty much the only fighter aircraft you can get new built without RCS reduction features.
Even the fucking Tejas uses RAM.

>>34722177
>GmbH
that doesn't mean what you think it means

>>34712736

They're still being built anon, you don't need stealth when bombing 3rd world countries.

>>34732898
>no F-117

Please.

>>34712736
Even the A-10 is designed to reduce its heat signature.

>>34712736
To my understanding advances in laser based point defense would lessen the need for stealth by making missiles not be such a hard counter to planes. This would also mean that LoS combat would be reintroduced as a major part of interception.

>>34736184
Thanks

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>>34723634

Except machine learning software now exists and it can detect anomololous patterns such as resolving the difference between a flying insect and the echo from the barn-like RCS of the F-35 flying at ANY angle other than head-on.

American stealth is already obsolete. The next batch of Russian defense radars will prove it.

>>34737693
Yes anon Russian supremacy is on the horizon just like it has been for the last century. Ignore the consistent failures.

>>34712842
>PAK FA
>Stealth

Pick one

>>34737693
>Literally not knowing that everyone could already do that and that detection range limitation is the key advantage of reducing RCS
>Thinking ML is required to check radar returns
>All of that pseudo-technical dogshit that proves you know nothing about ML or radar.

Please, kill yourself.

Non stealth aircraft are very cheap and still extremely useful in some cases. COIN, fighting guerilla, invading some third world shithole.

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>>34731871
>tfw we spend buckets of money developing alternate radar AND stealth, but a single breakthrough in Mobilesuits renders it all moot.

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>>34737693
>what is the size of early-warning radar cells

Don't use buzzwords you don't understand.

>>34712842
It will never be a threat in the current Russian af. But if India needs a fighter to face China, they can't get American shit and China won't sell.

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>>34737713

The Russians you will find are quite capable, for only have an economy the size of Italy.

You people seem to be spun into a frenzy by anything that Putin does, so your own population agrees that Russia is a big deal that must now be accounted for on the global scene.

>>34737742

>Computing power and detection algorithms can't be improved
>Improving resolving power of faint returns at extreme ranges won't enhance detection range

Oh look, a little babby-brained faggot, failed CS major with a hobby level interest in military aviation..

>>34737808

>Being a faggot

>>34738134
>The Russians you will find are quite capable, for only have an economy the size of Italy.
You say that as if they don't have an economy the size of Italy entirely on the back of their eternal tragedy of failures.

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>>34731639