.22lr forever?

>Implying the black helicoptors and robot cops won't have taken all of our guns by then

>135-year-old cartridge design.
>Probably the most-produced and most-shot in the country, if not the world.
>"Will anything replace it?"

No.

>>34708916
the better question is why replace it?

>>34708966
>>34708960
>rimfire inherently unreliable
>a lot of ammunition doesn't have the power to properly cycle an automatic firearm
>Only things it can reliably kill can be killed with air rifles

Just because it's old and widely used doesn't mean it isn't shit. It exists because it's cheap. If prices tapered off and .22lr became more expensive for whatever reason nobody would use it.

>>34708939
>implying black robot helicopter policemen wont have taken all our guns by then

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And in another 135 years, cyber Bubba will still buy pallets and flip it for ¢25 a round

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>>34708939
>Implying the government will still exist by then.

>>34709012
It can reliably kill people.

>>34709012
>>rimfire inherently unreliable
Don't buy cheapshit ammo.
>>a lot of ammunition doesn't have the power to properly cycle an automatic firearm
Don't buy cheapshit ammo.
>>Only things it can reliably kill can be killed with air rifles
So? If you don't understand what plinking is or why anyone would want to do it, you're revealing yourself as a mall ninja sperg.
>Just because it's old and widely used doesn't mean it isn't shit. It exists because it's cheap. If prices tapered off and .22lr became more expensive for whatever reason nobody would use it.
Sure, and if Coke cost $100 a liter, nobody would drink it. What's your fucking point?

>>34709012
>i-if it didn't have the s-stuff that makes it good n-no one would buy it!

A literal mental midget

>>34709078
If the price of 9mm or .45 shot up people would still buy it for self defense because it serves a purpose. .22lr exists for plinking, so if it were expensive people wouldn't bother. Stupid nigger.

>>34709073
>Don't buy cheapshit ammo

.22lr is cheapshit ammo

>>34708916

Maybe a .22 centerfire? But then again, why?

>>34708916
The pinnacle of rimfire and a universal round. So the answer is "no."

That being said .22 WMR is kewl in my min revolver and ripping gophers in half out of a rifle.

>>34709100
>b-but muh made up price increase!!

Its ok anon, sure we will play along with your autistic made up scenarios. We will just ignore facts and make up muh feels scenarios. Sheesh, and you call other people niggers

The only possible, but extremely unlikely scenario is if a .25 auto or somthing similar gets popular and is cheap. My understanding is that current .25 auto does not benifit from a rifle length barrel so it would have to be a new cartrige. Then there would be a good small centerfire round that could do what .22lr does but slightly more reliable

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>>34709136
arms design isnt about why, its about why not and never once listening to critisicsm

>>34709110
no rem white dot .22 is cheapshit ammo, alternately cci velocitor. Rem thunderbolt or stinger ain't cheapshit.

>>34709110
Here are two constants of /k/:
1) Mall ninja magnumitis.
2) NEET poorfags buying cheapshit and then complaining that it isn't reliable.
You check both boxes, anon.

>>34708966
Because it's weird we have this legacy old cartridge that everyone still uses while most other rimfire cartridges are long gone.

I think the question "If a cartridge was designed from scratch today to similar specs and cost per round, what it would it look like?" is interesting.

>>34709154
Once I realized Kolibri was a watchmaker all of his guns made perfect sense

wish that 25 auto replaced .22. But we'll never have 6 cent .25 auto so whatever

>>34709169
>>34709160
Regardless of manufacturer, rimfire is less than reliable compared to centerfire to the point that it isn't recommended for self defense. You must be new around here.

>>34709100
Are you fucking retarded? The price of 22lr DID shoot up and it couldn't stay on the shelves long enough for the market to normalize for well over a year.

More people plink than carry a defensive handgun.

>>34709172
>"If a cartridge was designed from scratch today to similar specs and cost per round, what it would it look like?" is interesting
i agree. you should have put that in the OP instead, would have made for a much better thread.

>>34709197
22lr isn't considered a self defense round. It's not for that purpose that billions of rounds are sold yearly in the US

>>34709201
Go fuck yourself you stupid nigger, that doesn't count.

>>34709184
I wish .25 auto was more popular.

Fuck Rimlock.

Fuck Rimfire.

I want a small caliber pocket pistol that isn't 22lr and isn't 380

>>34709250
>the reality of the situation that proves me wrong doesn't count

22lr will outlive us all

>>34709284
.32acp?

>>34709342
It doesn't count because that was a 1 time thing you stupid nigger. If it suddenly shot up in price because it was harder to make it would be dead, unlike if 9mm shot up ppl would still get it. GTFO you stupid nigger

>>34708916
>Could anything ever replace it?
God I hope so. It's outdated, low pressure, unreliable rimmed dirty bullshit.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2010/9/10/the-impossible-22-rimfire/

>>34709197
That's because you are among the mall ninjas here who don't understand the fact that a lot of people shoot guns just for the fun of it, rather than because they think that the RAHOWA is about to start any minute now.

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>>34709110

>>34708916
.17wsm is around the same size cartridge hits harder penetrates body armor and has superior ballistics

that all said i don't think will see a replacement for .22lr until castles ammo or the like

>>34709197
>thinks people buy 22lr for self-defense

Get the fuck off the board and kill yourself turbofag

>>34709402
You seem upset, probably because you're so fucking stupid.

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Obama Kept .22's off the market so that his Surveillance cameras everywhere would not be shot at!

>>34709533
And you are a stupid nigger, kys

>>34709355
No one makes highcap .32acp's, sadly v_v

>>34709593
They used to, but there are better calibers for anything people would want one for.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h3OUqsUauA

22or is a good cheap fun round...but the 5.7 is literally better in every way and should replace it.

Too bad nobody makes any guns that use it.

>>34709355
>>34709593
I may or may not be designing a .32 drum fed (proigryvatel style) PCC

>>34708916
>>34709012
>>34709062
>>34709073
>>34709100
>>34709136
>>34709139
>>34709150
>>34709153
>>34709154
>>34709160
>>34709169
>>34709172
Guys, guys, guys, .22 LR is not popular because of ballistics or any other technical reason. The vast majority of gun owners are dumb rednecks who don't care about ballistics, but they do care about money. They only way you'll ever beat .22 LR is if you make something even cheaper.

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>>34709197

>.22 for SD

No

>>34709860
That could easily happen soon, this is the best time to do so. The only reason .22LR is so cheap is its scale of production. Now that supply is low, the price will go up. This is the time for .25 ACP to take its place. If .25 ACP ramps up production while .22 LR is scarce and expensive, they can run cheaper than .22 LR for a period of time until the tide turns in their favor.

>>34709860
.22LR is actually also popular with the "redneck" crowd (myself included) because of its versatility. Like any other tool around my farm. I can have an old Marlin 60 behind my truck seat that is good for stopping the odd coyote or trash panda that's eating my livestock, humanely putting down said livestock for slaughter or due to disease or injury, shooting small game, shooting rats from the other side of the barn as they're heading to the feed room, punching holes in trash or burn barrels for drainage, you name it. Both the gun and the ammo are inexpensive, ubiquitous, lightweight, and easily replaceable.

As far as .22LR not being a self defense round because of cycling or rimfire ammo reliability issues, that may be true in semiauto handguns and urban/public scenarios, but I've never had any issues with cycling in my rifle and I know of plenty of rural folks whose .22 rifle is on hand for self defense and they're plenty comfortable with that, as am I.

>>34708916
Caseless .22LR with hyper velocity in the 1300-2000 fps would be better.
Electric fired for reliability.
Even plastic cased ammo could drive the costs down to 2 cents a round wholesale.
Bismuth or a better copper round for ballistics that shoot flat to 100-150 yards like .17HMR

Why use expensive rounds for a deer or armored target to whack a rabbit or squirrel?

>>34710713
>humanely putting down said livestock for slaughter or due to disease or injury
Sheep farmer? Won't trust a 22lr on cattle or horses unless they're still young.

>>34710519
Are there .25acp rifles? That's a market that it'd need to meet to replace LR.

Also I thought there were restrictions about small game hunting with centerfire in some states? I might be wrong, only really know my own states.

>>34708916
Only if we find cheaper alternative, but even then it would still remain very popular just because there are plenty of .22lr guns floating around.

>>34711031
As far as I know there isn't much of a .25 ACP anything. I figure it'll only take its place by being similar enough that all that needs to change is the barrel.

>>34709012
>>34709172
Rimfire is INHERENTLY cheaper to produce than centerfire. Reliability doesn't matter with this round. It will always be cheaper and thus always exist.

>what if centerfire gets cheaper
Then rimfire will get cheaper too. It's simpler to make, fewer steps involved. INHERENTLY cheaper.

>>34710942
>Electric
>reliability

>>34709402
>If it suddenly shot up in price because it was harder to make
It's not hard to make. It's easy to make. 22lr will always be easy to make because 22lr will always be 22lr.

>>34709136
25ACP exists. It's not as cheap as 22lr because it's centerfire. Therefore 22lr is more popular.

>>34709153
.25acp will never be cheaper than 22lr.

>>34710942
>Caseless
Dumb meme
>electric fired
Dumber meme
>plastic cased ammo
Pointless meme
>Bismuth bullets
A truly abstract new form of meme.

>>34708916
>Be OP
>think that 22lr will go away some day
>but can't explain why
>ask /k/ if 22lr will go away some day
>get told no
>become angry with people telling him no
What did OP mean by this???

>>34711267
Not the anon you're replying to but Brass is the most expensive part of most cartridges.
Weight is the primary benefit and focus for the military, but PCA and caseless have the potential to reduce cost for the consumer as well. Lower material cost, manufacturing cost and transport costs.

>>34711345
>lower material costs
Maybe
>lower manufacturing cost
No.

Not to mention caseless just doesn't work. Nobody has made it work and it's not going to work. The idea has been around LONGER than brass cartridges. If it was ever going to work, it would have worked by now.

>>34711291
It could be replaced by .22magnum if .22magnum ammo was reasonably priced.

>>34711520
22lr is inherently cheaper than 22magnum. And for what most people use it for, 22magnum offers people nothing that justifies any price premium, even of a mere cent.

For as long as firearms exist, 22lr will exist. It perfectly fills a robust niche. Truly optimal technology.

>>34711362
>lower material costs
>Maybe
>lower manufacturing cost
>No
Definitely. But like any new cartridge, its a matter of scale. Economies of scale drive any production cost down, and current brass cased cartridges have a huge headstart in that department. Despite having the potential to be cheaper, scale is the more significant factor. To be popular, it has to be cheap and available, and to be cheap and available it has to be popular. Things like .300BLK managed it because its 90% compatible with a 5.56 AR and you can form cases at home from 5.56. This means its barrier to entry is only as large as the price of a new barrel.

But that doesn't mean that PCA or caseless won't be cheaper if they achieved similar production. Brass is comparatively expensive to work in than plastic. And again, the case is the most expensive part of the cartridge. Why do you think steel case exists and is often so much cheaper? Steel isn't easier to work, but it is a cheaper material.

>Not to mention caseless just doesn't work. Nobody has made it work and it's not going to work.
Which is also wrong. Its been made to work, it just hasn't achieved the market penetration to become cost effective. The G11 worked, but after Reunification the need for new rifles was lessened and money was needed elsewhere. The VEC-91 worked, but it ran into the aforementioned Popularity/Cost catch 22.

>>34711541
.22magnum is twice as powerful as .22lr when shot out of a rifle. It also has a far better bullet expansion.

.22lr is far more popular because .22mag is 3 times more expensive if not even more.

>>34711571
>.22magnum is twice as powerful
Doesn't matter
>It also has a far better bullet expansion.
Doesn't matter

Get it through your puny autism-addled mind that 22lr isn't popular for killing things. It's popular for shooting at things.

>>34711593
No you are the autist who thinks that people would not pay a few extra cents for a .22mag when they love paying a few extra cents for slightly faster .22lr ammo.

Other rimfire cartriges just never took off because they were 3-5 times more expensive than .22lr. Take .17hmr for example great for shooting accurately at longer distances but costs 40 cents per round.

>>34711593
My first firearm will be chambered in .22magnum. Deal with it you .22lr cuck

>>34711634
I lied. .22wmr is like 30 cents in my country so it is not worth owning a firearm chambered in it

>>34711634
Nobody cares what you like. 22lr will continue to be the most popular cartridge in America. The day you die it will still be the most popular. The day your great grandchildren grow old and forget your name, it will still be the most popular.

>>34711541
>optimal technology
It's got nothing to do with technology and everything to do with economy. It's literally the opposite of optimal technology.

>>34711291
OP here. I thought it would be an interesting discussion compared to the 9mm and .45 meme threads. The angry people were other posters.

>>34708916
.22 caseless because no one reloads .22 save for the challenge. That is what will replace .22, and only once its economic enough.

No. It's a mass produced, widely available, and commonly used cartridge. Unless people stop demanding a cheap ammo for plinking .22LR will outlive all of us.

>>34709153
I've never had a rimfire misfire.
NEVER.

>>34709402
I guess I would be this angry
were I this stupid.

>>34712847
Then praise the /k/ube for your good fortune.
t. Guy who's had cases with half the primers wouldn't strike

>>34712814
22 telescoped.
>all that plastic waste
Shudder.

>>34712847
Seriously? How? What are you buying?

I swear, if I'm using a single pin rifle, like 2% won't fire first time. Usually have to eject, rotate it, and stick it back in because the priming isn't all the way around. Doesn't seem to matter what I buy theres always fuck ups.

>>34712883
Recycle it?

Dumb question. I'm bidding on a pistol that says ".22RF", not .22LR. Are they the same thing?

>>34713576
Probably means .22 rimfire.
So if guess it can fire 22short, 22long, and 22lr. It's a revolver?

>>34713656
No, it's a semiauto. It's part of a lot of three pistols, it's not the main one im going for. Which I guess is a good thing, because if I don't know the ammo type, I probably shouldn't be going for it.

I did a bit of google-fu, but it was weak. I hope you're right in it meaning any of the 22 rimfires.

>>34712847
In mt experience, I would estimate in about 50,000rds, it's happened about 6 times to me.
It has happened 1 time I can recall with centerfire, in about 5,000rds.

If it's happening at a greater rate than that, it's probably the gun not the ammo.

>>34709529
Yeah, all the squirrels and rabbits in my area started wearing kevlar a while ago, so I switched to .17 WSM.

Best decision I ever made.

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Pic related is the reason .22LR is so popular.
Pic related drives the sale of every 10/22 and Model 60 on the shelf.
Pic related is reason morons who suck every aftermarket dick they can find buy millions in anodized aluminum gimmick bullshit every year.

The fact that .22LR is about $0.05 a round is what keeps it alive. Nothing else. The instant you can get any other cartridge for cheaper, you won't be able to trade your Turbo Match Tactical Sniper 10/22 for a can of beans.

#realtalk

>>34715630
Good points, except that there are probably over 100 million firearms that use .22LR floating around right now. People like them, and not only for how cheap the ammo is. People will keep using them rather than buy a new firearm, or in addition to buying a new firearm.

Ammunition prices are also a moving target based on demand and current materials cost.
What you're suggesting is like saying "the instant you make a 50 mpg car, SUV's will disappear." Or better yet, look at diesel, hybrid, and electric vehicles. Fuel costs vary, but all of them will generally give you significantly better economy than gasoline. People aren't going to abandon their gasoline Camry until it's worn out or too expensive to fix, or fuel is simply unavailable. Add to the mix that there's a shit ton of .22LR hoarded and stashed right now, so if .22 literally went up to a dollar a round new, and some other new firearm was a penny a round, it'd still take a while for .22 to die out.

>>34709355
Isn't it unpopular too?

>>34715759
1000 rounds for 215 bucks isn't that bad. Standard .32 is subsonic too. Good for a can

>>34715630
.22lr is .05 a round not only because of the scale of economy, but because it's just about as dead simple as a cartridge can get. The cases are stamped out of brass sheet and formed in two steps, primer is added and shaken into the rim, followed by powder and a heeled bullet crimped in place.
It doesn't need any complex brass forming steps to form a recessed rim, it doesn't need primer pockets and flash holes drilled, it doesn't even need you to worry about bullet seating depth!
You will not displace .22lr as the cheapest round on the market for the simple reason that it's the cheapest round to make, and nothing that could replace it at the same cost will do it any better.

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Hey gents, does anyone else own or want to own a basic single shot .22lr just for plinking? My dad taught me to shoot many years ago with a little german singleshot and even though I still own it I'm afraid to really put wear on it now.

Thinking of getting a cricket or savage single shot so I can just toss it into my backpack when I go riding and plink in the middle of nowhere.

I have a Ranger 25; same thing as the Marlin 100 I think. pretty fun gun; it's cock on close, which is better than the close-then-pull-striker setup of most single shots. It has a super tight chamber; thunderbolts won't even go in.

>>34715820
Okay. Not many guns for it though from what I see, a high cap .32 ACP might be fun.

>>34715630
>>34715630
>The instant you can get any other cartridge for cheaper,
You can't.

Centerfire will NEVER be cheaper to produce than rimfire.

#realtalk

>>34715744
>People like them, and not only for how cheap the ammo is.
Bull.
Shit.
>if .22 literally went up to a dollar a round new, and some other new firearm was a penny a round, it'd still take a while for .22 to die out.
Not really.
Were you not around when .22LR was being hoarded and you couldn't find it anywhere except at a 400% markup? Gun store shelves were overflowing with .22LR rifles-- they couldn't give the motherfuckers away.

So OF COURSE people are going to keep their .22 rifles. It's not like they'll have a choice.

>>34716213
Do you know how many times I've heard the words "will NEVER" in relation to gun things? I'd rethink that phrasing if I were you.

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>>34709050
thats the kind of thinking i like to see!

>>34716289
22lr has been around longer than you, and 22lr will outlive you. 22lr will exist when the last person to ever speak your name does so for the very last time. 22lr will outlive the last person to even remember who you were.

It's a simple fact of manufacturing that rimfire is cheaper to produce than centerfire. There are fewer steps involved. The machinery is simpler and cheaper to manufacture, maintain and operate. That will always be true. Any manufacturing innovation that makes centerfire manufacturing cheaper will also make rimfire manufacturing cheaper. If you don't understand that, then you're a moron who doesn't understand anything about the realities of manufacturing.

>>34716289
You are undoubtedly the worse tripfag.

>>34708916
Its just a convenient little killer isn't it?

>>34708916
>Could anything ever replace it
In theory, if 17HMR or something similar that does .22's job better was manufactured on the same scale and brought down to the same price, yes. But that'll never happen.

People don't shoot .22 because it is a perfect round or has some mystical properties. They shoot it because it's the single cheapest round available in the US, and it's able to do a lot of the things you want a gun for reasonably well.

>>34709172
>if a cartridge was designed from scratch today to similar specs and cost per round what would it look like
17 HMR. The only reason it's more expensive is the economy of scale

>>34716868
>The only reason it's more expensive is the economy of scale

And, you know, like the actual economy, where manufacturing cost make a difference.

>>34709023
>implying the black robot helicopter army would follow those orders after being programmed to uphold the constitution

>>34716943
>implying they'll be programmed to uphold the Constitution
Does it seem like the Deep State types like the idea that until a couple decades ago the average grunt and POG were drilled to hold Constitution first?

>>34709012
>Only things it can reliably kill can be killed with air rifles

top zozzle

>>34717081
Technically there are air rifles that will put out more power than a 22lr. Much cheaper just to stick with 22 at that point though.

Odd .22 question here. I have a ruger .22/10 and was wondering what kind of scope to get for it.

>>34717081
>>34717131

Well yeah, there's like .35 cal airguns that people use to hunt deer with. But i think we can agree that's not what that faggot meant.

>>34717170
Hmm, that is an odd question.
I would suggest a tasco RF4X16.
They're priced <$10, and can be found at your local wal-mart.
Good luck with your new rifle my newfriend.

Anybody own a Phoenix Arms HP22A? Thinking about buying for fun and I was wondering if they're just the usual run of the mil cheap gun or if they are absolute dog shit. Because if they are somewhat decent I'll get one.

>>34717237
mine doesn't feed more than two rounds at a time. I had an ND with it once when I racked the slide so hard the extractor detonated the primer. I also once reamed the chamber back into working order with a screwdriver after too many dry fires.


2/10

>>34717298
>>34717237
gah, my eyes saw phoenix but my brain though Jennings. I'm talking about my J22

>>34717237
Don't listen to the advice of anyone who would recommend that pistol. People may get one bc they're uninformed, then justify their purchase. But no. They're terrible.
Save your money and get a real semi auto 22lr pistol. They don't cost alot. Ruger makes great 22lr pistols.

>>34717331
Why not get an Iver-Johnson .22? if it worked for Sirhan Sirhan it'll work for you too.

>>34709612
>there are better calibers for anything people would want one for.
Please stop posting.

>>34711229
The difference in production costs is not enough to matter. Both rimfire and centerfire production are automated. The reason .22lr is cheaper is because there is more competition in that market.

What was the price per round back in the 30's? I still remember my grandfather telling me how they had to make a box of 50 last a month plus.

>>34716583
>.22LR will always be the most inexpensive cartridge to manufacture.

Until a better rimfire comes along that's as cheap or cheaper. You're saying that can "never" happen. I think you're a fool.

And I never mentioned anything about centerfire. I (mostly) agree with you on that point, even though it's all on your end.

>>34717481
>automation removes manufacturing cost

You're an idiot. Centerfire requires better precision, more steps, more machines, more power usage, more time, more man hours even with automation.

>>34717868
>Centerfire will NEVER be cheaper to produce than rimfire.
>NEVER SAY NEVER
>Rimfire will always be cheaper because of manufacturing realities
>Now its ".22 will only last until a better rimfire comes along" and " I never mentioned anything about centerfire"

What? Not even the anon you're responding too, but keep a fucking consistent stance retard.

The only way centerfire gets cheaper than rimfire is if we change the case material and even then for .22LR sizes, the case is so small that might not even make the difference.

>>34717868
>cheap or cheaper.
What, you mean 22 short? It's been around LONGER than 22lr. No rimfire cheaper than 22lr will displace 22lr. If that was going to happen, it would have happened already.

Face it, 22lr will NEVER be displaced.

>The difference in production costs is not enough to matter.
Yes it is.
>Both rimfire and centerfire production are automated.
Human labor is not the only factor numbnuts.
>The reason .22lr is cheaper is because there is more competition in that market.
Wrong. It's also cheaper because exceedingly simple to make.

>>34718880
second half for: >>34717481