Has the Navy ever recovered since 1991?

>>34673591
Yes, they recover F/A-18s every day on their carriers.

Haha fuck no and it never will. Compare it to Stalin's purges except his replacement choices were all faggoty PC Clinton plants. Totally ruined the Navy.

Fuck Coughlin and everyone else who tried to get ahead by tarnishing such a fine organization and trashing so many careers.

Is there something about the USN i didnt know? What happend in 1991 and why has it had such an impact?

>>34673767
It started in the naval aviation community but dispersed to the Navy as a whole. If you haven't read about Tailhook '91 and grimaced, you will now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailhook_scandal

You can imagine just how much of a witch hunt this whole debacle was and how much it hurt the trust in the chain of command to protect its underlings.

Hickory dickory dock...

>>34673591
Yes, they got rid of the f-14D after they couldn't stop it from imitating a frisbee a long time ago.

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>>34673895
supposedly the pilots who were not at tailhook started sewing these inside their jackets

>>34673895
For folks who don't want to spend time on reading the link,
>Tailhook is a yearly convention for naval aviators, members of the industry, and associates to meet and discuss
>the non-official parts of the conventions were a party, sometimes compared like those found in a fraternity house
>everyone knew where to find trouble if you wanted it and there were clear warnings to stay away should you wander closer to said trouble
>Then Lt. Paula Coughlin, aide to an admiral, led the way for 25 other people on the charge of sexual harassment for being improperly touched and treated while walking through "the gauntlet" on the third floor of the Hilton Hotel in Las Vegas which she was WELL aware of considering she attended many Tailhooks before that including ones where she had her legs willingly shaved by another aviator, willingly offered belly shots to other aviators, and wore fishnets and a dildo among other things
>naturally she was treated by the media as a brave innocent whistleblowing woman
>bitch got a movie
>rode the wave of sensationalism and progressive democrat leaders (e.g. Patty Schroeder aka Big Cunt) who latched on to this scandal in an attempt to "break the culture" of the Navy because it was a "good ol' boys" club full of "licentious cowboys" and "drunkards"
>massive fucking witch hunt ensues
>completely dubious evidence and accusations
>hundreds of careers of good men damaged or destroyed
>naval aviation's balls were cut off
>the Navy itself became risk averse and political correctness reached a powerful high
>Bush Sr., a naval aviator himself, even tried using Coughlin to get the feminist vote and failed
>Clinton only made the ongoing destruction of the Navy worse as expected
>for years stuff like Officers Clubs were vacant, boozeless, or turned into what amounts to "family friendly"
>Paula Coughlin made out with $5 million
The Navy today is a legacy of Tailhook 1991. It's gotten much better but the echoes of it can still be clearly heard.

>>34673767

The Clinton admin used a "scandal" as grounds for tanking 300 some Naval Aviation officers' careers and several Admirals, based on hearsay and "anonymous sources".

In the years since the focus on Naval Aviation has been integrating women and now homosexuals.

>>34673895
>>34674034
>>34674050

What in the ever holy fuck man... I didnt know that this feministic, SJW-tier pandering took place as far back as the early 90's...

>>34673895
>>34674034
>>34674050
This annoys me to no end. I'm not military, but personally, I want our aviators to be a bunch of crazy fighter jocks like the Great Santini. They need to act like a bunch of crazy bloodthirsty savages because they need to be just that to be the best. But now we're too focused on being "inclusive" and the biggest issue about the military today is whether trannies are a detriment, instead of whether or not we're properly maintaining our air fleets.

>>34674096
Kill yourself RepubliCunt

Sucking the boots of the military pathetic

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>>34674114

>>34674088
Progressives and social scientists have been hard at it for decades man. Only since the internet got bigger has this shit become more mainstream.

Shit was bad back then. I knew guys that wouldn't even be alone in another room with a woman for fear of some bullshit coming back to bite them. They kept their mouth shut and got the fuck out.

I'm not a misogynist by any measure. Those men that actually did things to those women should have been charged with conduct unbecoming etc. But to trash an entire organization and careers of people just for BEING at Tailhook '91 was a fucking disgrace.

>>34674096
It'll come back around if we ever get into another real shooting match. It might even come back around the further we get away from this mess just by the nature of the beast. I'm really glad Hillary didn't win the presidency for this reason alone.

>>34674163
>It'll come back around if we ever get into another real shooting match.
So you don't think the US will be able to win if we get into another war?

>waaah muh SJW

Fuck off retards, they got what they deserved. The frat culture in the US military is a joke for every other military in the world. Embarrassing and dangerous.

>>34674198
Nah we'd be able to win. It's just that the right personalities tend to rise to the top in times of competition that is life and death. Some shitbags rise to the top too but far less than in peace time.

>>34674204
I can't tell if you're just trolling or not but it's not the just the fact of social justice crap but also the fact that many innocent people were dragged down with the guilty ones. "Kill a hundred innocent men to prevent one guilty man from escaping" it was a nightmare for anybody in aviation.

>>34674204

(You)

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>>34674204
See that's the thing though. Now, popular culture is largely dominated by the coasts, and we have a culture of persecuting Conservatives in media, the college campus, etc.

The Left has become so fringe and "inclusive" and trying to pander to everyone that they can't even make a party platform anymore.

Tards are literally voting simply by name recognition and the capital letter after their name.

>>34674034

>>Then Lt. Paula Coughlin, aide to an admiral, led the way for 25 other people on the charge of sexual harassment for being improperly touched and treated while walking through "the gauntlet" on the third floor of the Hilton Hotel in Las Vegas which she was WELL aware of considering she attended many Tailhooks before that including ones where she had her legs willingly shaved by another aviator, willingly offered belly shots to other aviators, and wore fishnets and a dildo among other things


Do you have a link for reading that critiques her case? Supposedly her room was on the 3rd floor. I'm just curious if there's anything substantial out there that actually suggests she didn't have a case.

From an outsider it looks like she did have a case. Just cause she's a whore doesn't mean she doesn't reserve the right to not whore out for a night. Plus, a lot of the "she is a WHORE" sounds like a lot of hearsay or rumors.

To me it looks like she probably did get fucked with. Whether she knew what was going on I don't know. It also looks like the Navy, pushed by politics, went about a hundred miles too far in punishment.

>>34673591
I was in from '03- '09, and at that time, no. If anything, the Navy had fully embraced the model of sensitivity and correctness, often to the detriment of mission accomplishment. There were always any number of random side offices and side billets which had nothing to do with anyone's daily job, but being part of them was considered important to advancement. I always found it be the case that a mechanic who was damn good at his job, qualified out the wazoo, and was the kind of person that people turned to when SHTF, would be passed over for promotion in favor of an individual who was qualified to do the bare minimum of needed job related tasks, and produced acceptable but mediocre work product, but who was also the Sexual Harassment Program Coordinator, Safety P.O., Equal Opportunity Program Coordinator, Sexual Assault Victims Advisor, etc etc. All these programs are accorded an inappropriate weight, and end up wagging the dog. The FNG who speaks on behalf of that program has undue influence over higher ups, and those programs take away from actual mission accomplishment; i.e, you spend 3 hours learning how not to rape someone, instead of finishing repacking a valve so you can get out by 6PM.

They kill morale, don't really accomplish anything, and ensure that incompetents get promoted to positions of authority they aren't qualified to hold. They then promote more people like themselves, and the cycle intensifies.

>>34674656
She was fully engaged in the "activities" of the off the record sections of Tailhook and had been for years. If you asked anyone in naval aviation from around that time or right afterwards about what they thought of Paula Coughlin it would have been like asking a Marine from 1973 Vietnam about what he thought of Jane Fonda.

At the very most the offending people in that corridor, once recognized, should have been disciplined under UCMJ and the next year or two Tailhook should have been shut down. But it went so much further than that.

>>34674656
It's really hard to send you a link that isn't either a newspaper cover from around that era (which wholly embraced her side of the story) or official sources which were whitewashed to hell and back so they aren't reliable either. I'm afraid you will have to go directly to the source. Ask anyone you knew, know, or anyone related to someone who can get you in contact with someone who was in naval aviation during those years of what they thought of it.

>>34674656
Believe in what this article says or not, it's worth the read just to get two sides to the story http://www.militarycorruption.com/paulas2.htm

For your record, there are online aviator websites and forums you should look up that will have similar statements from people who were actually there back then. You know what's some real shit? There were even women officers who defended the alleged harassers and said Lt. Coughlin was a liar. The entire story is the definition of convolution.

And you're partially right. The Navy, pushed by politics, basically wrapped an anchor around it's neck and threw itself into the lake. The 90s were a dark time in Naval history.

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>>34675231
>>34675195

Thanks for the replies, faggots. It's not out of my understanding that this could be a case of being outed as a slippery susie and then gaining a sense of regret. Just saying I can only what what I read and y'all know how it goes with neckbeards on the internet. The opposite white knight who loathes women and thinks every accusation they say is false.

>>34675283

Grain of salt, but nothing in there that's unbelievable. Except for the fact that up to 1500 aviators were involved in investigations. That's fucked.

I'm not a pilot, but always imagined those guys had a pretty Type A culture. Partying hard doesn't seem out of the ordinary.

>mfw ywn shave an aviator's legs in her dress uniform

>>34673988
My dad had one lmao

>"The aftermath of the scandal was not without controversy. Many conservatives and retired officers alleged that in ending the careers of over 300 officers, the Clinton administration had gone far beyond punishing wrongdoers and had used the scandal as a pretext for carrying out a purge of the officer corps."

woag

>>34676819
>I'm not a pilot, but always imagined those guys had a pretty Type A culture.
They did. Work hard, play hard mentality was basically a requirement.

I don't know how it is today. My guess, as to what I've listened to, is that it's much less "cowboy" and much more "professional". I'm glad you appreciate the gravity of the fallout of this scandal. It's pretty important to the US Navy today.

Feels bad man

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>>34673591
>>34673683
>>34673895

It was completely justified considering that the navy was only going to get more and more technical and thus more officer heavy. An officer who operates an autoloading artillery gun is expected to behave better than a barely literate enlisted mexican who loads shells manually. Clinton had nothing to do with it either, the USN administration understood where things were heading and changed their priorities. We live in the twenty first century now, wars are won by button pushers not by sweaty assholes punching each other.

I'm serious when I say that. Naval operations changed, so did the men needed to staff it. If you have a problem with this then you can move to Mexico or the Philippines whose navies don't use modern tech. Also this whole conversation is stupid anyway beacuse it's not like anything the naval administration does vis-a-vis culture has any affect, it's the other way around. By the time the "social justice" shit was codified it was already the standard, the Pentagon just needed a good enough scandal to get things moving.

>>34674088

Then you are underage and need to get off /k/ which is an 18+ board.

>>34677069

shit happens, this is what occurs to officers decide to have a circle jerk off base. Bad shit happens and everyone is collectively punished. Just as it is within the Navy, expect in the Navy all legal proceedings are kept undisclosed from the public. Ultimately when people play stupid games (going to Vegas with their friends) they win stupid prizes. Hence why most states ban gambling and why good states restrict alcohol sales.

I'm in Primary right now, and most of the Ensigns and 2ndLts despise all this PC and SJW bullshit. Obviously I don't talk politics with the IPs, but it's clear that they hate the PC culture as well.

>>34678395

lol... "As an ENS in primary I feel that..."

Did nobody give you the "shut the fuck up" talk yet?

>>34678295
>It was completely justified
That's where you're wrong, Patricia. It was not completely justified in the slightest. It was bureaucratic overreach and McCarthyism meant to destroy the Navy culture (which you admit).

Instead of waiting for said culture to evolve naturally (as it had evolved from something before it) the Democrats in power decided to take advantage of a scandal to get their way and didn't give a fuck about who got caught in the fire while doing it. It was wrong of the men (and women) involved but the long arms of UCMJ, Big Navy, and the Federal government should not have gone no further than that. Many good men and beneficiary parts of long standing Navy culture were lost and they will never be recovered.

>>34678320
>Hence why most states ban gambling and why good states restrict alcohol sales.
Let's get real here faggot. Most governments ban stuff because they either can't control it or because they can't tax it. The governments doesn't give a shit about feelings or people they give a shit about numbers and being reelected. The sooner people realize that the sooner Americans can stop defending their politicians like they were a best friend.

>>34678430
Do you not understand context? This thread is about the atmosphere of Naval aviation. And amongst most of the JOs, the consensus is PC culture and rampant feminism is cancerous.

How about instead of being a dick you contribute to the thread?

>>34674088
You have to be 18+ to use 4chan.

>>34678670
What anon is so bluntly trying to say is "JO opinions are worth dick". The upper echelon actually pulls weight and they are *all* for PC culture and rampant feminism because that is what allowed them to keep their jobs.

>>34678729
Oh I'm well aware that JOs have very little sway, especially a butterbar that doesn't even have his wings yet.

But I honestly have hope. I think the younger generation is getting fed up.

I pitched in precisely because of how green I was, giving the perspective of someone who had just joined.

>>34678601
>The governments doesn't give a shit about feelings or people
they do give a shit about feelings and people, why do you think every democratic state ends up banning scurry black salt raifus?

>>34678793
The younger generation is getting fed up. I just graduated and most guys I talked to thought political correctness was fucking stupid, plenty of girls thought feminism was really inauthentic, and both were disgusted with the meltdown of Democrat voters their age that needed "safe spaces", "crying rooms", and "therapy dogs" and all that nonsense because their candidate didn't win a presidential election.

Now, I didn't go to Harvard or UCLA so I can't speak for the coasties but that seemed to be the general consensus anywhere I went in the Midwest. Southerners tended to think along the same lines if not more staunchly.

>>34678829
That's what we call it, but the real reason they want to ban assault rifles is because they want to more easily control the population's ability to resist. Government is all about control and the bigger it is the more control it wants.

Democrats don't actually give a shit about the poor and Republicans don't actually give a shit about your rifles. They care about the money they get from lobbyists and being reelected so they'll jump on whatever hot topics are around during their election years.

>>34678793
>I pitched in precisely because of how green I was, giving the perspective of someone who had just joined.
How do you like it so far? I'm hoping for a PROREC Y for SNA in the next board (whenever its going to be, I hear rumors of October). I'm excited but also worried because my AQR and PFAR scores were only a 6. The recruiter seems to think they're competitive but I don't know. 6/9 sounds like shit to me.

>>34677713
>is that it's much less "cowboy" and much more "professional"
Why is this a bad thing?

>>34680341
there's a difference between normal professionality (say, training constantly and not doing stupid shit in the multi million dollar jet) and cancerous professionality (YOU CAN'T CALL THAT PLANE A HER, HOW DARE YOU ASSUME THAT PLANE'S GENDER, I'M GOING TO MEDIA OVER THIS REEEE).

>>34678295
>Not knowing what happened in '91.
>You have to be over 18 to post on 4chan
I'm not the other anon and I hate to be a dick but the youngest person who could possibly remember when that happened would be an autistic 30 year old with questionable interests. It's 2017 dammit. That means "Adults" were born on or before this day in 1999. Time passes gramps.
>T. 24 year old that didn't know about Tailhook.

>>34678670
>"No, I have not gotten the "shut the fuck up" talk yet and completely lack perspective though I will gladly opine.

>>34678729
It's not JO opinions. It's SNA opinions. JOs run the squadron.

>>34680341
It's not. They did they right thing. If anything there should be something similar again to make the US military more professional because right now it's still a fucking joke.

>a bunch of muhreens grope/rape a bunch of women at a party while countless others just let it happen
>THEY WUZ GOOD BOYS!! DINDU NUFFIN! IT WAS THEM LIBKEKS THAT RUINED THE NAVY!! THEY DIN DESERVE NO PUNISHMENT FOR ACTIN LIK A BUNCH OF APES! THEY WUZ AT TOP GUN SCHOOL ERRY SUNDAY AND WUZ GETTIN THEY LIFE BACK ON TRACK!!! WE NEED MO MONEY FOR DEM PROGRAMZ

>>34682142
>take advantage of a scandal to orchestrate and restructure the military like it's one big science experiment
Ah, no

>>34678575

hey jimbo there cannot be "bureaucratic overreach" when the President is the Commander-In-Chief. Clinton being an anal retentive asshole is what XOs do every single day.

>the Democrats in power

(a) whoever is in power is irrelevant to DoD employees who should know better than to engage in risky activities in the first place. Especially people who are some of the best pilots in the world and who certainly knew better.

(b) the culture had already evolved, the Cold War was over and with it the Navy itself was explicitly beginning a transition into a smaller, more technologically-based force.

(c) the XO's XO's XO, the President, can skirt the UCMJ if he feels like it just because he won 270 electoral votes. This has been known since forever (see Truman desegregating the military, or the Jap Internment which did effect active duty Jap-American soldiers at the time) and is an accepted condition when people sign their lives away.

>>34683524
>be best pilot in the world
>have career ended because a slut felt bad about being a slut
You got sucked in by the feminist brainwashing

>>34683564

Sex outside of marriage is degenerate, but more to the point people who want to engage in prostitution can't do so legally within Las Vegas itself. People who are given command of $20+ million dollar aircraft are expected to behave like professionals and not like boots. There is a time and a place for fucking sluts, per LV municipal ordinances that place is not the Las Vegas Hilton and per not being a brain damaged idiot the time is not during your annual officers' (who at least in theory abide by a code of honor, which includes not groping people) circlejerk.

This is independent of feminism as well, imagine the shitstorm if they groped the (male) bellhops or caterers instead. It'd be the same shit except Clinton would have had to fire them for being gay (or at least engaging in homosexual activities) since gays were banned in the military back then.

>>34678295
>muh gunners mate officer
Shut the fuck up. Your example is stupid and ignorant. Enlisted are used out the wazoo when it comes to technology.

>>34683524
You talk like a Bolshevik
>gotta change the ways for the future!

>>34674204
>the frat culture is a joke to other militaries
Ya, ok. You've never worked in or with any military ever. Soldiers are the same everywhere. We like to drink and smoke and shoot shit and blow shit up and talk about fucking women the whole time.

/pol/ faggots and numales fight ITT

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My father wasn't there. He has the patch to prove it.

>>34674088
There's an old story about how a boy tricked the housewives of Rome to storm the senate because the boy claimed Senators were proposing they should each take two wives. The housewives gathered and protested that they deserved three husbands. The wives vehemently hemmed and hawed all day as the senators and boy looked on and laughed. The senators praised the boy for understanding women as "the flock of geese they are".

This shit has been going on since the dawn of time. The terms and conditions change but the situation is all the same.

>>34678295
Yeah, who wants to get SWEATY in 2017?

Can't the ship like, maintain itself or something? Engineering is.. like.. SO gross and I might actually break a nail

>>34678295
I literally can't even begin to tell you how much officers can have literally zero understanding of the technology they use every day and it's completely NCO's who operate and maintain it.

>>34683806

Yes, I talk like a fascist. Which is what the military fundamentally is, it's personnel are told how to act (including how they act off base and off duty) and if they don't do so they get disciplined. This is all spelled out by the recruiter and people who take issue with it need not work for the government. Which is what everyone involved with this was: a government employee.

>>34684381

You know what I mean. Let's look at just loading operations: in 1950 it took a gang of five people and cargo nets to move things onto a boat. Today it's one crane operator and maybe a forklift driver. Same applies to everything else, the Navy has made automation a priority which leads to less physically intensive jobs compared to fifty years ago.

>>34684405

so? Officers can at least be trusted not to smash the machine when it doesn't work. Officers are stuck up pretentious assholes but they are stuck up pretentious assholes who won't smash a keyboard because the ethernet cord fell out.

>>34684658
Don't call me a stuck up pretentious asshole you shit licking enlisted SCUM

>>34683661
>Sex outside of marriage is degenerate
YET EVERYBODY DOES IT. Why do people have to pretend like sex outside of marriage isn't acceptable anymore? This isn't 1840's England.

Most people you see during the day have had sex outside of marriage, even if it was with the person they eventually married.

>>34674204
How about you fuck off you leftist dick sniff.

>>34684677

I'm a 2dLt, eat shit

>>34684689

I don't because I'm white.

>>34684712
>I don't (have sex outside of marriage) because I'm white
No, you don't have sex outside of marriage because you're a creep

>>34684720

you got that backwards, creeps don't get married in the first place

>>34683661
>Sex outside of marriage is degenerate,
Speak for yourself.

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>>34673591
We never forget how Goose died. We just live our lives in the danger zone, one volleyball game at a time.

>>34684840
Watch out for that jet wash. F

>>34674204
t. Low test limp wristed faggot

Men are the same everywhere dipshit.

>>34682150
>Marines

Bud, you're in the wrong thread. This is a Navy thread, you know, the guys that keep the Marines from being removed as a military branch

>>34673591
Please don't post lewd images like that, this is a blue board