What happened to K-129? What happened to SSN-589 Scorpion? Is

>Is there some connection between the two disappearances?

Turns out submarines take poorly to internal torpedo explosions.

>>34645704
No connection at all.

But you sound like you know a bit about these two submarines, maybe you could send me your address so we can discuss the subject?

>>34645752
It's only theorized that's what happened to Scorpion as she was found facing opposite her intended course. Scorpion's wreckage precludes any definitive explanation as to the loss.

>>34646438

There are many interesting theories about what may have happened to the two submarines, but nobody really knows for sure what happened. On particularly interesting theory suggests that the captain of K-129 had gone rouge, and the Soviet Navy was searching for their rogue submarine when they happened to come across the USS Scorpion, which was probably draw to the area by the unusually high Soviet presence. Mistakenly believing that they'd found K-129, the Soviets deployed depth charges and sank the American submarine. K-129 had managed to slip away, but it was later destroyed by a secret self-destruct mechanism designed to prevent unauthorized missile launches. The submarine had attempted to fire nuclear missiles at Hawaii, triggering the self-destruct device. Another, more mundane theory posits that K-129 collided with Scorpion and both submarines sank as a result of damage incurred during the collision.

>>34646461

spoopy

>>34646461
>K-129 collided with Scorpion
That would have been a trick, considering Scorpion was lost 400 miles south of the Azores and K-129 was lost 600 miles north of Midway.

K-129 had nothing whatsoever to do with Scorpion, and vice versa.

>>34646461
So...the soviets searching for a sub in the pacific somehow caused the sinking of a us sub in the atlantic?

I know the Imperial Russian navy has a history of mistaking english fishing trawlers for jap torpedo boats, but that right there is one far-fetched idea

>>34645704
please note that these arent the only submarines who went missing that year(1968)
also
>israeli sub INS Dakar
and
>French submarine Minerve (S647)
4 subs from 4 different countries lost in one year
coincidence i don't think so

>>34646461
Probably the dumbest thing I've ever read on this board.

Congrats, that's impressive.

>>34645704
>actually intersting never discussed thread on k unlike constant f-35 shitposting
>9 replies

>>34646461
I bet they collided.

>>34646756
>wild paranoid ideas about two things happening at opposite sides of the planet, several months apart

I like a good pocket-thriller "National Treasure"-esque novel as much as the next guy, but this is not any better than the F-35 threads

>>34646799
4 anon 4 submarines went missing in one year

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>>34646799

The theory which I delineated was first advanced by Kenneth Sewell in his book: "Red Star Rogue" which was published in 2005. I have not actually read this book, but I read a synopsis of it on Amazon. The premise seemed intriguing enough, so I considered getting the audiobook version, but I was also skeptical. The central premise, that a rogue Soviet submarine attempted to fire missiles at Hawaii in 1968, seems like something more from a techno-thriller than actual history. I decided that I would make a thread on /k/ about it to see if other people knew anything about it. And here we are.

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>>34646946
>I have not actually read this book, but I read a synopsis of it on Amazon

>>34646969

What part of this story do you not understand? I saw a book on Amazon that looked interesting, but I was skeptical of the premise, so I made a thread about it to see if people thought it was plausible or not. It's certainly an incident that deserves recognition if it did indeed occur in such a way.

>>34646946
Well it may be instructive for you to read about the two incidents in more detail- K-129 was in the Pacific and Scorpion the Atlantic

they both ran away from service together, to live happily ever after

>>34647008
According to (((them))))

>>34647008

That seems like a pretty big discrepancy. Maybe I misunderstood part of the theory and misrepresented it unintentionally.

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semi-related how many post-war submarine accidents other than Kursk resulted in men being trapped alive on the bottom? the only example I can find is HMS Affray in 1951

>on april 17 1951 Affrey dived and failed to surface the next morning
>a massive search was undertaked
>over the next day 4 different submarines picked up faint metallic transients((i.e a sailor banging a hammer on the hull) and 36 hours into the search Affrey's sister ship Ambush was able to hear the tapping clear enough to make out the morse signal for a submarine trapped on the bottom
>when the boat was finally found in June it was laying intact(other than a broken snork) in 500ft of water with a raised periscope, all bulkheads intact and all compartments dry other than the control room

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>>34647266
That right there is a -horrible- way to go.

>>34647034
>(((them))))
Who is "(((them))))"?

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>>34647266
>Another strange event was the wife of a skipper of one of Affray's sister submarines claiming to have seen a ghost in a dripping wet submarine officer's uniform telling her the location of the sunken sub (this position later turned out to be correct)[1]—interestingly she recognised him as an officer who had died during the Second World War, not a crew member of Affray. As there were so many shipwrecks littering the English Channel (161 were found, most of them sunk during the Second World War), it was almost two months before Affray was located.

spoopy.

>>34647285
Just dying from suffication/CO2 poisoning, not too bad. You'll have a headache, passout and die. Not too bad.

>>34647266

I hope they had a gun to shot themselves with.

Don't forget the USS Thresher.

A few days before, analysts say that K-129 was searching for a rogue soviet submarine that released a few 1 pings only. A few reporters tried to verify the source and the analyst replied with, "Of coursh".

god i love submarines. moar

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>>34645704

Okay, so it seems obvious /k/ doesn't think this particular theory is very plausible. But there are other theories about what might have happened that also need to be considered. For instance, consider this theory, advanced by the book "All Hands Down." In this theory, the Scorpion was destroyed by the USSR as revenge for what happened with the K-129:

>In March, a Soviet sub, K-129, mysteriously sank near Hawaii, hundreds of miles from its normal station in the Pacific. Soviet naval leaders mistakenly believed that a U.S. submarine was to blame for the loss, and they planned revenge. A trap was set: several Soviet vessels were gathered in the Atlantic, acting suspiciously. It would be only a matter of time before a U.S. sub was sent to investigate. That sub was Scorpion. Using the top-secret codes and the deciphering machine, the Soviets could intercept and decode communication between the Navy and Scorpion, the final element in carrying out the planned attack.

>All Hands Down shows how the Soviet plan was executed and explains why the truth of the attack has been officially denied for forty years. Sewell and Preisler debunk various official explanations for the tragedy and bring to life the personal stories of some of the men who were lost when Scorpion went to the bottom. This true story, finally told after exhaustive research, is more exciting than any novel.

>>34645704
Read this faggots.

Probably torpedo explosions. They had a bad habit of doing that back then.

If you want a good read, you should check out the Northern Fleet's merry nuclear shenanigans.

>>34648830
>google "submarine incidents/accidents"
>90% soviet/russian

>Scorpion was sunk days after last reporting that it was closing in to recon a Soviet sub group

Gee, I wonder what happened.

>>34647297
That's what (((They))) want you to think

>>34648875
Thank Rickover for that.

My favorite:
>Sub in depot for refueling reactor
>Control rods need to be disconnected before you remove the lid
>Guy waiting for word to disconnect control rods gets bored and goes to dinner
>Next shift comes through
>Doesn't bother checking or adjusting anything, just starts the lift
>Control rods come out
>Reactor goes critical
>cykablyat drop it back in
>Try again
>Reactor asplodes, bits of control rod and fuel go flying all over the drydock, lights stuff on fire
>Sub totaled

>>34645704

At this point I think it is fair to say that the USSR had something to do with Scorpion's sinking. It was no mere "accident."

>>34645704

Bump for justice.

>>34646540

>Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

Whale collisions. Four seperate incidents involving four subs from four countries.

What's not to believe?

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>>34646461
Goddamn.

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>>34649919

>>34645704
The only connection is they were both submarines which suffered unfortunate accidents most likely related to some sort of mechanical failure. We can't be certain what caused either, but Scorpion was well known as being under maintained, and a battery or torpedo explosion is a very likely explanation. As for K-129, Russian subs had the same problems magnified; take your pick from leaking missile tube or dodgy batteries. For Minerve and Dakar, sub accidents happen. 1968 was just a bad year.

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>>34648928
Damn. That must have sucked.

>>34648875
The Soviets built way more subs, and experimented with innovative high performance designs. Western subs got more quiet and better sensors, but slow (Permit 25kts v preceding Skipjack 33+ kts), but Soviet nuke subs got fast and deep.
If you go deep, like Alfa deep, torpedoes struggle to follow, because they can't expel their exhaust gases in the immense pressure of 1000m+. Likewise few cold war torps could exceed 35-40 kts. The trade-off is the Alfas were noisy as fuck and used a lead-bismuth cooled water reactor which was awkward to maintain and repair on operations. They also had Titanium alloy pressure hulls which made them very expensive.
These expensive boats were the high end completed by large numbers of cheap diesel bottom sitters.

>>34646946
>Kenneth Sewell in his book: "Red Star Rogue"
This is the worst thing ever written.

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>>34645704
You know what happened

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>>34648266

thresher sounds downright scary

you know you're fucked but have no way to stop it. just waiting for the inevitable collapse. at least it was probably so quick they never felt anything.

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Thresher_(SSN-593)

>Thresher slowly dived deeper as it traveled in circles under Skylark—to remain within communications distance—pausing every additional 100 feet (30 m) of depth to check the integrity of all systems. As Thresher neared her test depth, Skylark received garbled communications over underwater telephone indicating "... minor difficulties, have positive up-angle, attempting to blow",[4][5][6] and then a final even more garbled message that included the number "900".[7] When Skylark received no further communication, surface observers gradually realized Thresher had sunk.

>>34648877
If they found it they wouldn't sink it, just harass it with active sonar. Subs trailed the other sides stuff and got discovered all the time throughout the cold war. Both sides new the game and played it every day.
No less than 3 Nato subs were watching when the Kursk sank and the Russians knew they were there.
If Scorpion had been attacked, she would not have been found on her previous course.Her position shows no signs whatsoever of evasive manoeuvres. She was straight lining then BANG. Then Glugglugglug.

>>34648928
Here's another good one, absolute nightmare material
>one-of-a-kind Soviet submarine K-278 "Komsomol"
>titanium pressure hull and escape capsule fitted in the sail
>fire breaks out due to short circuit in engine room while running submerged at 335 meters
>reactor scrams and propulsion is lost
>fire spreads past watertight doors through electrical cable conduits
>boat is in danger of complete loss of control, captain orders emergency surface
>11 minutes after the fire begins, the boat breaks surface and makes distress calls, most of the crew abandoning ship
>Moscow orders the captain to save the ship, as it is the pride of the Red Banner Northern Fleet
>captain and his best men return to the foundering boat, the fire still burning out of control and feeding on the compressed air tanks
>as they fight to save the boat, it suddenly loses buoyancy and goes under
>electrical power fails entirely
>the captain and his men scramble desperately in the dark for the escape capsule
>only five make it inside before the captain orders the hatch closed against the oncoming flood of water
>there is a problem
>no one has been trained in how to use the escape capsule
>the men frantically read the written instruction manual, all the while hearing the frantic pounding of sailors trapped on the other side of the hatch
>the boat plummets deeper, finally slamming into the bottom in 1,680 meters of water
>the impact jolts the escape capsule loose, and it skyrockets for the surface
>the controlled ascent and decompression system fails, and when the capsule breaks surface, it's interior is at such a great pressure that the hatch mechanism is blown outward
>the man closest to the hatch is blasted out with the rush of air, breaking most of his bones in the process
>before the rest of its occupants can recover, the capsule floods through the open hatch and sinks, taking them with it back down to the K-278
Part 1

>>34653850
This all but ensures that she suffered some sort of catastrophic mechanical failure a la the Thresher.

Which makes sense, as the Skipjacks were under-engineered rush jobs that were as obsolete as the Skates and the Guppies by the time Scorpion went down, meaning they were probably at the back of the line for preventative maintenance, especially compared to what was needed at the time to get the Permits in order and the Sturgeons finished.

>>34647297
Sonar technicians

>>34653898
Part 2
>rescue aircraft fly over and drop rafts to the crew, but many have already died in the 36 degree Fahrenheit Barents Sea
>a Soviet factory fishing ship arrives 81 minutes later, taking aboard 25 survivors and 5 dead
>42 of the 69 man crew are dead, including the captain
This one kept me up at night after reading about it.

>>34653898
But the escape capsule wouldn't need to be pressurised. ..

I call bullshit

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>>34653898
>>34653961

what the fuck

>>34655215
I wouldn't be shocked if the escape capsule didn't also double as an escape chamber for Steinke hood escapes or whatever equivalent the Soviets had.

If that was the case, the crew could have inadvertently pressurized the thing in the rush to escape.

>>34653453
This.

In the air, the US is known for all the crazy prototypes we've built, either as white world one-offs or gray/black projects that are now tucked away at Groom or Tonopah. Meanwhile, the Soviets barely built any prototypes that didn't directly lead to operational aircraft. You can practically count them on one hand.

The opposite was true for the USA, particularly in the post-1950 era. The only one-offs we built, aside from the Nautilus/Seawolf/Halibut/Triton prototypes were the Albacore, the Tulibee, the Narwhal, and the Glenard P. Libscomb. Meanwhile, the Soviets built so many one-offs and sub-classes that we still can't keep track of them all, and that's just the nuclear boats.

>>34655215
I can't quite remember the exact details but it was either something like what >>34655942 said, where the crew inside the capsule fucked with the air pressure when figuring out how to launch the thing, or the rising air pressure in the submarine (thanks to flooding) was trapped inside the capsule when they closed the hatch. Either way, the other 4 guys didn't make it out before it sunk again.

>>34656649
Aaah..that would make sense that the incoming water might pressurise the remaining air in the chamber.

I respectfully eat my bullshit call.

>>34656914
It's all good Anon. I'll see if I can find any more submarine horror stories to tell.

>>34653567

And what books have you written, smarty pants?

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>>34645704

How about the Kursk which was sunk by one of our attack submarines? I'm still amazed the Russians had the patience to not retaliate. They had every right to.

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>>34658943

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>>34657799
>doesnt know the only trip on the whole fucking site who has any value

>>34658943
I'll never forgive the Americans for what they did to that submarine!

>>34657799
>just because I can't cook I'm not allowed to criticize the turd sandwich that guy made

>>34653567
The rogue captain bit is retarded, but the basic concept has some points on its side. Mostly the fact that K-129 was rather significantly overcrewed when it sunk, Yeltsin awarded 98 sailors with a posthumous Order of Valor after the sinking. The usual crew complement was around 83.

Anyone here read Event-1000?

>>34657799
kill yourself

>>34660987
>Event-1000
What's that? Sounds possibly interesting.

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Oh yeah, you guys want a properly crazy theory on the Scorpion (or possibly the Thresher)? This one pops up from time to time in arch-conspiracy lore: one of the above didn't sink, it was either lost or captured...in California. Or to be more specific, UNDER California. As the theory goes, much of California isn't exactly regular continental landmass, it's a shelf hanging out over (or is honeycombed by, accounts vary) a vast subterranean sea or flooded cavern network, accessible via certain caves and massive openings in the continental shelf. NAWS China Lake and Naval Undersea Warfare Center Hawthorne are often cited as being related to these tunnels, or even housing deep-subterranean docks for nuke boats.

>>34657799
I don't actually know, but I would not be at all surprised if Oppenheimer has actually published a book or two. If not, he really should. His knowledge is wasted on us retards.

>>34645704
On a slightly related note: who took the missiles and warheads from K-219? Was it some secret squirrel CIA salvage?

Based off of simulations, SOSUS data, and corporate documents, the Scorpion sank due to a faulty torpedo battery that was allowed into her torpedoes due to contracts. A battery got fucked and it either exploded in its storage place or it started running hot and they launched it, accidentally causing it to lock onto them and sink them. Simulations allow for either scenario but corporate documents support the explosive torpedo battery. The K-129, based off of SOSUS data, rad surveys of the area, and CIA surveys suggest the most likely cause of her sinking was seawater leaking from a faulty hatch to one of the missiles, interacting with its fuel, causing an explosion. The Dakir was sunk by the Egyptians, based on Israeli and Egyptian documents. The Minerva is the only mystery.

>>34661094
How crazy does one have to be to think up something like this? Even Ancient Aliens Guy would just shake his head at this

>>34655997
Saying the Soviets built more innovative sub designs doesn't detract from the US's achievements in other areas. US carriers are marvellous feats of engineering, so were Typhoons and Alfas. Also, I only say that Soviet subs had more mechanically stressful designs, in a shooting war western nuke subs would probably have out performed Soviet boats just by virtue of better sensors.

>>34661565
No serious source regards the Dakir-sinking as something caused by Egypt

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>>34661637

>>34660931
Not an uncommon occurrence. Nuke boats would often have extra crew onboard: technicians, cadet or officer trainees, intelligence specialists etc. That book is absolute wank.

>>34661665
Oh, totally. We definitely had the most advanced surface fleet, by far, which is likely why the USSR focused so heavily on advanced subs in the first place, since they knew they couldn't keep up in the surface fleet game and chose instead to build adequate-sized runs of fairly conservative frigate/destroyer/cruiser designs while dabbling with the notion of exactly WHAT an aircraft-carrying ship built around USSR naval doctrine would look like.

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>>34664687
>>34661665

Also, the Ohios make the Typhoons look like the toys that they were. The Typhoon was, like the Deltas and Yankees, basically no different from the "41 For Freedom" boats, and was little more than a Ben Franklin class on major steroids in terms of accuracy, noise, etc. Basically, a 2nd strike "fuck you" weapon designed only for obliterating population centers from relatively safe waters in the aftermath of a strategic nuclear exchange.

Meanwhile, the REAL story from the 1980s that doesn't get talked, ever, is that the Ohio class was clearly designed as a first strike weapon. The cancellation of the MX program and the near-abandonment of land-based ICBM's by the US in the wake of the Ohio class rollout tells you everything about their capabilities. I'd be shockec if the Tridents, particularly the D5, didn't hit CEP's that rivaled anything a Minuteman or MX could produce, given how quickly the DOD moved to abandon every other ICBM platform the moment that they entered service. Furthermore, nearly 40 years after the first launch, the Ohios are still among the quietest subs at sea, easily matching the acoustic performance of the Virginias or Astutes.

They're like an undersea B-2, an utterly amazing 1980s technological accomplishment that over a third of a century later is still one of the most terrifyingly effective weapons in service anywhere. An argument could even be made that they are what broke the cold war stalemate, and, by extension, the USSR, when it became clear to the Russians that the US was now fielding a system that was essentially undetectable, and was capable of parking itself right off the coast of Murmansk, the arctic coast, or the Sea of Okhotsk, and putting up to 288 MIRV's on Soviet targets with less than 10 minutes of warning and accuracy on par with any land-based ICBM system in operation.

In deference to Tom Clancy, the US was the one that fielded the silent decapitating first strike weapon system in the 1980s.