War of the War Guns

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>>34632522
all are shit

one on the top, the bottom, and the mauser

rest suck ass

We already have a thread for this >>34632041

Don't start a new one just because people were talking about Japanese rifles there.

>>34632543
NO JAPANESE RIFLES GET OFF MY BOARD

>>34632522
Not even a german 98 what the fuck

>>34632522

Enfield

Garand first and Enfield in second. Volume of fire is king.

>>34632522
The M1 Garand, you pleb.
Also Arisakas are very good rifles.

>>34632522
Of the 3 the mauser is the best made gun. But if I had the option of which to take to war it would be the enfield. 10 rds vs 5 and it by far has the fastest action.

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>>34632525
>the_toll.jpg

>>34632522
arisaka and mosin had the strongest actions in that order
garand's unwillingness to use a bolt carrier left the garand with less than ideal reliability but still worked fine
lee-enfield had the fastest action
mauser had the smoothest action
don't hardly know shit about the mas

some of the wartime rifles are ugly but mosins get a lot more shit than they deserve, as long as the action doesn't need a 2x4 to open it they're more than suitable for what they were intended for.
personally i like the k98k for how it handles and its action's features but they're all on approximately the same level. the volley sights are so-so but notch and post isn't really better.

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>mfw I'm the only Jap Weapons enthusiast in this entire board

>>34633819
jap rifles are shit. my great uncle brought one back from the war and I refuse to shoot it because they are trash

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>>34633819
You and Arisuka.

Unless you are Arisuka.

I like my Type-38 rifle very much and want a Type-30 to go with it (let's not even talk about Muratas and shit, you), but the rest of the "Arisaka" line doesn't interest me.

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>>34634038
>Muratas and shit, *yo)
FFS

>>34632522
But that's a Type 99 and a Yugo.

>>34634058
>that's a Type 99
You can clearly see it's a 38 action. The 99 only has a little bit of metal coming up behind the bolt handle. Not to mention the barrel bands are wrong even for a T99 long.

Le type 99 is garbage meme

I pick the MAS or the enfield

>>34632522
Objectively I would say the M1.

But I still believe the Lee Enfield is the best bolt action rifle made.

>>34632522
In practical use there's virtually no difference aside from Garand, for reasons that are obvious.

>b-b-b-b-b-ut I have 5% better mechanical accuracy which helps at ranges in which I can't even see the enemy!
>b-b-b-ut in ideal conditions I can fire 2 shots per minute more!

yeah yeah

The action strength thing is also overstated when you know what you're talking about. All of those actions are stronger than stocks they are mounted on. The entire point of wanting to use strong action is maintenance - stronger bolts can survive more rounds put through them than weaker ones, but we're still talking about relatively ridiculous amounts even in the weakest of those rifles(Enfield - the bolthead will get wrecked about 3-5k rounds). So you're left with simplicity of the bolt which again - matters only when you're setting the production up. MAS36, having stupidly simple bolt probably wasn't that much cheaper nor faster to make than SMLE or Mosins with more elaborate constructions, it's just that you saved up on assembly lines(MAS36 was a stop-gap measure before semi-auto rifle was adopted so it makes a lot of sense).

Sights are matter of preference, but imo Mauser's suck.
>>34633782
>don't hardly know shit about the mas
Short review. Action is not the smoothest and not the shittiest in the world. You can cycle it relatively fast and generally it's great ergonomics wise(if you can deal with no safety, which for a repeater is really a non-issue), but it doesn't matter that much. Has actual accuracy problem(receiver bends slightly under recoil, they saved too much weight on it) but it's still going to be accurate on longer range than you can see. You probably can't make simpler bolt. Sights are good if you have them zeroed - they will hold that zero and are relatively good and simple to use. If they aren't zeroed you need gunsmith to do it for you because that's how it's meant to be(for military it's a good thing, for civilians not so much).

Carcano.

>>34632522
Best WWII rifle? That's a very broad thing to suggest because there's so many, not to mention there's semi-autos, bolt-actions, as well as the first properly mass-produced and mass-issued assault rifle. The Federov Avtomat came before it but it didn't make as much of an impact; the world wasn't ready to accept such technology, there were still magazine cut-offs for bolt actions. Ultimately, yeah, in spite of its incredible weight and expensive manufacture, the STG-44 was in all likelihood the best possible standard-issue firearm if it could be made on an intense enough scale. 500,000 STG-44s will not defeat millions upon millions of Mosins and SVTs and so on and so forth.

That aside, for semi-autos, I don't have any hands-on experience with the Ljungman or whatever that Swedish semi-auto was called though its weird action that allows the bolt/carrier/dust cover to slide around as one unit and offer an even greater threat than Garand thumb while also allowing several ingresses of dirt, I'm going to say it's NOT the best semi-auto. I also don't have hands-on experience of the G41 or G43, for all I know it might be better than either SVT or M1, but I can't rightly confirm or deny that. As for the two most-used full-sized semi-auto rifles, the SVT and M1, they both have various advantages and disadvantages compared to one another. I've put years of thought into it, but I just can't come up with which I prefer. Now, I'll reply to this and actually address bolt-actions, which I think is the main subject OP wanted... if anyone would like me to go over the many advantages/disadvantages of the SVT vs M1, just ask.

>>34632522
Mas 36
Type 99
1903a3
No4mk1
K98k
91/30
M95
1941 Carcano
In that order.

>>34634933
So, the main ones that OP brings up are the kar98k, M91/30, and Lee Enfield. First and foremost I am going to reject the 'Jap Crap' and 'Japanese rifles are cancer' comments because the Arisaka rifles are incredibly solidly built. The last-ditch Type 99s are shit, yes, but the pre-last-ditch Type 99 rifles were arguably the most advanced bolt-actions available in the war. Chrome-lined bore, incredibly complex rear sight to allow for AA volleys on propeller planes, smooth cock-on-close bolt, and though they probably weren't ultimately all that useful the dust cover and monopod were also steps towards giving soldiers the best bolt-action rifle possible. The Japanese did their damnedest, and I think they did a damn good job.

A big war between rifles is Mauser vs Mosin. Kar98k and M91/30. There are some disinguishable aspects that differentiate them, for instance the Kar98k is smaller and SLIGHTLY lighter than the M91/30 which makes it more handy, fair point. The Mauser clips are WAY smoother than Mosin clips and they also eject automatically upon closing the bolt unlike Mosin clips so reloading is absolutely easier with Mauser rifles. Then with the M91/30 due to its longer length and longer bayonet it could potentially be used more efficiently in melee by a skilled soldier (granted most Russians were not), and the Mauser's push-feed action makes the closing of the bolt SLIGHTLY smoother than the Mosin's but with authority it's not much noticed. What differences are there other than that? Both cock-on-open, both 90-degree bolt turns, both notch-and-post, both short-radius (though the Mosin has longer radius due to the longer barrel), both 5-rnd capacity, both have dual forward locking lugs and both have safety lugs (Mosin's is the bolt body itself while Mauser's is a little tab in the back)... by and large, the Mosin and Mauser are on the same level with the biggest advantage that one has over the other is the Mauser's smoother clips. That's about it.

>>34634933
>>34635011
Back to the Kar98k vs M91/30, it could be said that due to the Mosin's much broader range of quality, primarily lower general finish quality than Mausers due to the stresses of the initial German success of Operation Barbarossa putting such massive strain on the need for firearms, it's another benefit to Mauser, but what was the reason for that flex in quality? More rifles, and if we start talking about quantity then that opens up a whole new can of worms because the Russians totally win in that respect, so for the time being we'll assume the Mauser and Mosin are decent-quality examples of their respective designs. Both were also successfully used in sniper roles so they're both very accurate in their respective rights.

Now let's bring in the No.4 Lee Enfield. It brings a lot of new shit to the table that has not been much touched upon by other standard-issue bolt actions. Long-radius aperture sights, floating barrel, 60-degree bolt turn instead of 90-degree which makes the action smoother, and well the cock-on-close action as opposed to the cock-on-open action also gives it another degree of smoothness, plus the bolt is just so positioned that it is perfectly easy and comfortable to pull the trigger with your middle finger without letting go of the bolt. All these combined give the Lee Enfield faster follow-up shots than either Mosin or Mauser. All that, plus the floating barrel and the long-radius sights, it aids both rate of fire and accuracy quite a bit. I hear there were even reports of 1.5 MOA right from the factory, not for worked-on No.4 Mk.I(T) scoped rifles, but just the average iron-sighted infantry rifle. That's quite substantial. With that kind of accuracy you could potentially hit a head-sized gong at 600m (660yd) and that's with just irons, provided your eyes are good enough to see the target at that distance. The post-war No.4 Mk.2 was even better, but we're talking WWII here.

>>34634933
>>34635011
>>34635067
Back to the No.4, there is also the pleasant 10-round capacity which is substantially larger than the average of 5 or 6 of the day. That's like a new magazine design being adopted for standard-issue by the US Military that allows for 50 or 60 rounds, while not being particularly much bulkier than typical STANAG mags. I'll also add that while some would reply with "but it takes twice as long to reload a 10-round mag than a 5-round mag", that is outright untrue. To take twice as long, it would require EVERY action to be doubled, but every action of reloading is not doubled. You open the bolt once, and if you grab two clips at the same time (easy to do) you only go for ammo once, and the only action doubled is feeding the clip into the mag. After that, you close the bolt once (second clip ejects automatically) and you're good to go. It takes less than twice as long, but you get twice as much ammo, which lends itself once again to providing fast follow-up shots and over-all getting more aimed rounds downrange in the same amount of time as a Mauser or Mosin.

The downsides of the No.4. The bolt requires a specific tool to completely disassemble. I would not consider that a deal-breaker. The bolt is not strong enough to allow the rifle to be rechambered to a magnum cartridge. True, but it's plenty strong enough for .303 British or even 7.62 Nato which is only a cunt-hair stronger than Mk.VII Ball so the comparatively weaker bolt is yet again a non-issue. I've also gauged, handled, and shot Lee Enfields that were a century old, never has a Lee Enfield failed a no-go gauge. Even by swapping bolt heads around to try to find a combination that would fail the no-go gauge, I could not. So headspacing is likewise a non-issue as far as I'm concerned. Rimlock? 7.62x54r is still being used in box magazines, and people are still not only hunting with .303 Lee Enfields but even taking them to the range for fun. If rimlock was bad, it wouldn't be fun.

>>34635134
Bloke, calm your tea addled titties.

>>34635211
I'm not British, though tea is quite tasty.

>inb4 Jap Crap
>Japanese rifles are cancer

Say what you want about the Arisaka's ergonomics, it was the only rifle the ordnance board tested that they couldn't blow up.

>>34635353
Eh, it can be. A good cup of chai or white ambrosia is great.

>>34634631
What? Someone who knows what they're talking about, on my k?
>imo mausers suck
aight

>>34636000
I usually go for classic Orange Pekoe. Earl Grey is nice too though.