K98 best bolt action rifle of WW2, probably even now Hot

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>>34632041

>>34632097
>>34632097
Heck of a shotgun. In all seriousness though, the 1903A3 had much better sights and an action that was equally as good as the Mauser

>>34632041
>what is the k31

k98 is a competitor for rifles that actually saw combat though

>>34632097
But anon that is a shotty and the model is taken from Fallout 3

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being the best bolt action of WWII is like winning the Special Olympics

>>34632041
I have both and I like my Enfield No.4 a LITTLE better.

>>34632142
The Garand is gay

>>34632041
That's not how you spell Lee Enfield no4.

>>34632147
But YOU'RE straight? Oh, puh-LEEZE, girlfriend!

>>34632147
so's ur face

>>34632143
Well it has +5 rounds and the sight may be a tiny bit better but the gun is ugly as fuck and heavier than the K98

>>34632151
I'd fuck a K98 anytime

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The Arisaka. Or at least Nambu's Type 38 and 99 and their variants.
Smooth actions, two good choices of cartridge, simple safety mechanism, bolt disassembly with two quick actions. Push safety knob in and rotate with palm.

>>34632158
>the gun is ugly as fuck

So's yur ma.

>and heavier than the K98

Not enough that you really notice. I'd say the Mauser's bayonet is a bigger advantage than the No. 4's is. I'd definitely trade the weird spike bayonet for that bolt, though. Rapid, aimed fire is outrageously easy in comparison.

>>34632177
Ik she is

>>34632158
> the sight may be a tiny bit better

I was also going to say, I think they're both pretty close in accuracy, but I prefer the peep sight on the Enfield. I've shot about as well with both at 500 yards, so I can't really say one is better than the other. My "Mauser" is actually a Yugoslavian version from the 1950s, though--I don't know if the sight on it is the same as the sight on a legit German ww2 Mauser.

>>34632169
you know, I've been making an effort at collecting the main infantry rifles of all the combatant states in ww2...except I just have very little interest in Japan's. And I honestly could not tell you why that is. I really ought to get at least a couple...

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>>34632041
Type 99 was better in every way

>best bolt action
>tangent rear sight

pick one and only one

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>>34632206
I never really thought too much of them and then one day I was watching some video on them and thought "I really want one". Started reading up on them and the next gunshow rolled around so I picked up a Type 38.
I love it but am currently learning how to reload for it. Otherwise ammo is really expensive because I can't order it online and I only know one store nearby that stock the 6.5
It gave an interest in Japanese guns in general. Some very interesting ideas and designs.

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>>34632041

>>34632206
possibly because the japanese don't know dick about making refined firearms

>>34632158
>tiny bit
You mean sky and earth better peep site and blade vs shitty barley corn.

Even ignoring site picture the barley corn wasn't protected until they issued protectors.

>>34632243
Fuck off mosinfagger

>>34632252
Aside from the semiauto pistols (And you can still find some Type 14s that work fine, Japanese guns aren't that bad.
They just never got around to the way of thinking of thinking other nations did during WW2. That's because Japan was a naval nation and even with oler style weapons, it was better than what the Chinese of Soviets of the 1930s-early 40s had.

>>34632217
This is true, the 99 was better than the G/K98

Everything good you can say about the G98 was better in the 'saka.
>Sealed up cos dust cover
>nice stronk (303 based) cartridge
>Insanely strong action
>Pretty smooth
>Sights are better
>Strong extractor

Lee is still a better war gun, but saka is a nice soldier proof design for a nation new to industrialization.

>>34632266
Absolutely nothing wrong with a mosin other than it being an 1891 design.

>>34632139
Newfags get out
>REEEEEEE

Memes aside, please lurk moar

>>34632273
I never intended to suggest that they made bad guns, just ones that don't rate much above "mediocre".

>>34632279
The safety lock is shiddy, barely movable and it's not that easy to bolt anyway

It's probably me but the true german Mauser K98 type bolt what is looking down is more comfy than the bolt looking to the side

>>34632350
>The safety lock is shiddy, barely movable
On the 99? Yea i see what you're saying. It's the old type of rotating the striker knob. Flag mauser safety is much better.

>easy to bolt
Depends on the gun. Most sakas have mismatched bolts. Now the problem with japland being new to industrialization was that a lot of stuff was still being hand fitted, it's why saka dust covers rattle, they need hand fitting so if you have a mismatched, they rattle or are too tight.

By not having the correct bolt that was made for that gun, the saka does lose a lot of it's smoothness.

>It's probably me but the true german Mauser K98 type bolt what is looking down is more comfy than the bolt looking to the side
It's entirely you, and me. It depends on hands and what you're used to. The kraut G88 had a straight bolt handle and so did the lebel. The handle only matters on a personal level, but a bent handle THEORETICALLY increases speed of operation.

One bad thing about bent bolt is that it has the potential to reduce the tork you can put on the bolt, making it harder to get out stuck casing. It's a case to case thing, something like the berthier it's really noticeable cos the bolt handle is like 1 inch out before it turns and that's less torque on the body .

>>34632266
>mosinfagger
Its mosinigger.

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>>34632041
>"Get a load of this kraut miss spelling M1917"

>>34632142
Kinda sorta true.

>>34632279
>>nice stronk (303 based) cartridge

The .303 is a decent full-power rifle cartridge, but 8mm is a more powerful round. The difference is really slight and academic, though...it's one of the things I find really interesting about WW2 rifles: .303, .30-06, 8mm, 7.62x54...they're all really in the same league, ballistically. (and the Japanese round is really a clone of the .303, so them, too). A lot of widely separated countries with significantly different infantry doctrines all seemed to come together and agree on what a rifle round should perform like.

>>34632418
the American Enfield is so fucking underrated

>>34632243
Everything wrong with the mosin is that it's a first generation smokeless powder bolt repeater.

First gen stuff included the
G88 (A G98 designed by a commission, very comparable to the mosin actually)
Lebel (Seriosly? Tube magazine? Screw driver to remove the bolt?)
MLE (No clip loading? What the fuck is this monstrosity?)
Carcano (It's like a mosin, except loads faster.)
Type 30 (actually the only Arisaka, despite every jap gun being called that. Bolt was fucking complex and it was overall a meh tier rifle)

The only reason we don't hear shit about the Lebel or G88 is because it wasn't cheap as the mosin so it never formed the following.

Or that 37 million of them weren't made.

>>34632418
Don't you amerifags ever sleep? It's like midnight or something there.

>>34632424
>Everything wrong with the mosin is that it's a first generation smokeless powder bolt repeater.

And yet in spite of that, it was in service like 50-60 years (and still fucking occasionally found in Afghanistan and Pakistan today). That's the thing about a rifle that's "good enough." You may come up with a design that's much, much better. But if my army's got a rifle that's "good enough," I don't need yours, and can even beat your ass....cuz my guys have a weapon that's good enough.

>>34632121
>much better sights
for Camp Perry, sure.

>>34632446
To take that idea farther, look at the very subject of this thread. The Mosin is pretty much objectively inferior to the Mauser in any way you can measure outside of speed/cheapness of manufacture. But the advantage of being armed with a Mauser is pretty much insignificant over being armed with a Mosin-Nagant in just about any situation that commonly occured.

>>34632424
>Or that 37 million of them weren't made.
Then it wasn't good enough

>>34632453
aperture sights are better than open sights in *all* respects

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>>34632142
johnson rifle superior

>>34632418
>P17
YES SO MUCH FUCKING YES
it's like the perfect mauser. I have a P14 shoots better than a G98. Smoother in everyway, only downside is the shit 303.

>>34632420
Most of the full power rounds used by the armies of the time where just necked down versions of their black powder rounds.

8mm lebel was necked down 11mm gras
30-06 was developed from 30-03 which was developed from 30-40 Krag, which wasn't directly developed but you can see it's 45-70 roots.
8mm mauser which we now call patrone B i think, was developed from patrone 88, which was actually developed new to compete with the Lebel 8mm
7.62x54r was developed new, but took some hints from the berdan cartridge 11mm. And was also taking ideas from the lebel.
303 development is stupid. The 303 is actually kind of a knuckle dragger of a cartridge with no excuses. During the development of the lee, they where coming up with cartridges. They had the opportunity to make a modern rimless round, but instead went with a smol bore, smokless powder... That they then loaded with black. Needless to say it went through a LOT of revisions before it was honestly worthy of the title 'good'.

Anyway the reason why so many are similar is because pre smokeless era, the common cartridge size was 10-12mm which when necked down due to engineering brass stresses, makes it decently close to 7-8mm. Now the reason pre smokeless was 10-12 was because that's the perfect handle able cartridge size (according to everyone i guess). If you do the tests you can see that size is kind of the ideal range for black powder large bore rounds. Gets the most pressure out of it.

I bet there's a lot of machine and tools sharing as well. Since machines are similarly sized i bet a lot of the sizes where constrained to prevent having to make new machines.

My 2 cents.

>>34632446
No it's not cos the rifle was good enough, it's cos they made 37 million of them.

Aks are found in greater numbers, not because they're the ultimate gun, but because they'res 75-150 million of them,

If k98s and lees where made in 37 million numbers, they would turn up just as frequently.

>>34632459
No, that means it was a design that worked for what the soviets needed. That's why 37 where made instead of replacing it.

Well that and when they where working on replacing it with a semi auto, the krauts decided to rain on their parade.

>>34632486
Tech wasn't there for the full switch to smokeless, was really interesting the compressed black powder loads the did before they switched.

Also only retards think the rim was an actual problem in the enfeild.

>>34632446
A lot of that long service life was due to political issues, as early as 1912 there were experiments to improve the Mosin Nagant like the Holodovsky rifle. This featured spacers for LOP adjustment, a modified stock design, aluminium components to reduce weight, and a fluted barrel for cooling and weight reduction. Then World War I stepped in and the Revolution shit all over everything. Once things got back to a relative normal the M91 became the 91/30 and development moved forward on a semi auto rifle to replace it. The SVT-40 and it's predecessors would have likely replaced the 91/30 had World War II and Barbarossa not occurred. Similar political and economic issues explains why the British never adopted the P14 and it's cartridge in large quantities.

If you look at the Mosin Nagant compared to it's counterparts it's really a fairly good rifle, the M91 design was finalized by sometime in 1889-90 and when compared to the Gewehr 88, M1886 Lebel, and it's ilk the M91 is a very serviceable rifle. Rifle design was moving at phenomenal speed in that era and Russia simply didn't have the money to replace the M91 so quickly after adoption when it was perfectly functional and they had major issues getting enough M91's to replace Berdan I/II's

>be a jap
>take a rifle straight out of the 19th century
>continue to make it 50 years later with almost no concessions to progress or modern standards
>have a fucking sight mounted on the barrel and a straight bolt handle
>retarded weeaboo /k/ommandos will tell you it's the best combat rifle ever because soldiers can chamber them in .50 BMG and also take the bolt apart with their toes for field cleaning.

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>>34632041
The K98k is a shit. Absolutely terrible sights. The best bolt action design of WWII is the French Mle 1936.

>>34632418

>M1917
It was mostly used for training and arming foreign powers. The US didn't use them in combat at all.

>>34632169
The Type 38 and onwards basically copied the Mauser while making some improvements thanks to Nambu's good thinking. The high quality steel and relief holes in the receiver make it the strongest rifle of it's time. The Type 99 and late Type 38's also had peep sights which is uncommon on a rifle at that time.

Specifically the Swedish Mauser in 6.5x55.

>>34632424
You're right about the Arisaka part. You might already know the rest of what I'm gonna say, but others may not so I'll post it.
The "Arisakas" after the Type 30 are actually not even called Arisaka in their official name, we just call them that in the west. They're just referred to by their year designation and rifle type. Ex. Type 38 Long Infantry Rifle
In fact Nambu basically designed the Type 38 and the rifles onwards. Arisaka just oversaw the project.

The minimum accuracy level that the SMLE had to meet to leave the factory was higher than the level that Mausers were to reach for conversion to sniper's rifles.

>>34632041
That's not how you spell Lee-Enfield Rifle No4.

>>34632470
Superior rifles get adopted, anon...

>>34633934
The M1917 did see limited use in combat roles in WWII, most were degraded from improper storage but Johnson Automatic two groove barrels were shoved on some of them and pressed back into service until M1's were available.

>>34634549
Fuck off, the K98 is better

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>>34634813
I have yet to see a non-training picture of a US GI with an M1917. The most I can find is foreign usage such as this pic of the Free French.

There is one pic I know that purports to be of Americans with M1917s, but it's a P14 and the soldiers were Dutch.

>>34634813
Also widely distributed to resistence groups and smaller allied/friendly nations.

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>>34633972
>WWII

>>34634688
>He thinks performance matters for military procurement
Hilarious.

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>>34632252
the arisaka's have some of the finest machining I've seen.

>>34632041
Wrong. K31 was so terrifying to Hitler that he didn't touch Switzerland.

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>>34634688
>Superior rifles get adopted, anon...
is that why the M14 was adopted?

>>34635265
>p-puh-fore-mance don't m-matter, only the worst guns get picked for the military! y-yeah that's it! only the stupidest, worst, dumbest guns get p-picked, that's why muh johnson dun't get chosen!
Okay buddy...

>>34635325
>the M14 was a bad rifle
Considering it's still made while the Johnson isn't, I think we have our answer....

>>34635253
All those beautiful velocities lost, and an action that can't be loaded hot to try and compensate. What is wrong with short-barrelfags?

>>34635348
>Considering it's still made
For nostalgia purposes only, they tried to press it back in as a DMR only to find out all over again it's a POS.

>>34635365
It's not cut retard, it's the carbine version

>>34635377
Well they tested the Johnson in the 1930s and determined it was a piece of shit so there you go.

>>34635348
>>the M14 was a bad rifle
>Considering it's still made while the Johnson isn't, I think we have our answer....

I said it's not the superior rifle, not that it was bad rifle.
Are you seriously implying the M14 is better than the FAL?
Do you really think that a military adopting a firearm is 100% to do with performance and not politics and money?

>>34635393
>Well they tested the Johnson in the 1930s and determined it was a piece of shit so there you go.
Tell me what's bad about it then.
The main reason the military didn't adopt it is because there's no way to mount a bayonet, which was a requirement.

>>34635385
No, it isn't. That one is a bubba.

>>34635385
That thing is cut as a Jewish dick. Even a blind faggot could google up an m/94 and compare it to that and see the differences.

>>34635420
>Tell me what's bad about it then.

Besides the bayonet issues, it really offered NOTHING the M1 Garand didn't already. By the time Johnson got off his lazy ass and presented it to the military they had already adopted the garand and were mass producing them. The Johnson was much more expensive, and the additional expenses of completely stopping garand production as well as telling all those manufacturers "lol well just make these other rifles now, k" was astronomical.

>>34635424
First of all, I hate you
Second, it's bubba'd but the barrel isn't cut
>>34635452
Prove it

>>34632243
Simo Häyhä's kill count 542?
Different sources say that it is between 200 and 700 and some sources claim that now most well known number is made by propaganda.

And russia had snipers who killed over 700 I have feeling that someone somewhere is writing bullshit but source is impossible to track down.

>>34632041
>What is the K31

>>34632128
Btw. Lindymeme went to Switzerland to shoot that beauty

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4tzIuhmDa4

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>>34632142
John Garand reached peak office & manliness.

>>34635586
Overrated?

>>34635599
>going to Switzerland to shoot a gun that is readily available in the US
>shooting one that got fucked up with diopter sights

>>34635652
I thought he lived in the UK. The No Fun Zone.

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>K98k
>thinking the Eternal Teuton could make anything good while they try to ruin Europe every few years
Most practical (bolt action) rifle coming through

>>34635652
>Fucked up with diopter sights

The Swiss civilians actually commonly make that modification to them and Stg57s to shoot them in military rifle competitions

>>34632097
That gun is pants on head retarded and could never possibly function.

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>>34635652
>removable sights fuck up a rifle

anon plz

>>34632238
>>34632169

where can I get a type 38 or 99??

>>34635928
Gunbroker is where I got all of mine.

>>34635685
stop changing trips kaptbilly

>>34635985
You got me. Its so its harder for anons to hide all my shitty cancerposting.

>>34635985
Greatness is always imitated.

>>34634925
They saw extensive use in the Banana Wars, but you're gonna have to dig deep to find images of that era

>>34632570
>Also only retards think the rim was an actual problem in the enfeild.
In the Lee it wasn't that big of a deal, but it was a clear problem when it came time for auto loaders. And regardless a rimless round would have still been better, because you wouldn't have to load the clip in a specific manner, and guns like the pattern of 1914 enfield, wouldn't rimlock to fuck, like they do, i own one, it's not nice.

>>34633934
>It was mostly used for training and arming foreign powers. The US didn't use them in combat at all.
WHAT?!

IT WAS LITERALLY THE MOST COMMON GUN IN WW1 USED BY THE AMERICANS.

They didn't have enough Springfields.

>>34635420
And that it had less vertical accuracy than the garand because of it's short recoil action. Don't let me forget you that part.

>>34635599
you would think he' bitch and moan until he got to shoot a SMLE

>>34632147
You're gay!

>>34636742
>WW2

>>34635928
Pretty much any gun store that deals in milsurp. They're pretty cheap guns unless you come across a rarer variant.
Most won't have their dust cover and the missing Chrysanthemum really doesn't effect the value anymore unless it's specifically for collecting. They used to almost double the value but with the pickings of unsporterized ones becoming slimmer, people don't care that much anymore.
The prices I've seen are a 38 will usually cost $250, and a 99 will go $350-400.
Of course high quality examples will be a little more. I saw a near pristine early Type 99 with intact markings, dust cover, and bayonet going for $500 in a store. Too bad it already had a 'SOLD' tag on it.

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>>34636742
>Thread specifically about guns in WWII
>Brings up WWI to try and discredit someone who was right about the rifles use in WWII.

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and the full size m91

>>34636948
>>34636957
Fair enough but it was still used in ww2, somewhat. Even the P14 was dragged out and used under sniper roles.

It's still the best mauser based rifle. It hits every mark that Germans didn't.

Still i was wrong it didn't see much service in ww2.

>>34637139
>'Cano
>Best
Nah nah.

>>34633934
>Judging a bolt action just by its sights alone.
Good reasoning bro.

>>34639430
>It also doesn't have as good primary extraction as the Lee Enfield.
>The sling mount makes that place on the stock more likely to brake than a swivel and solid mount.
>The single piece bayonet mount is pants on head retarded.
>The rear and front sight is soldered on, instead of keyd on like a nation that has any idea of what it's doing.
>The front sight has no protector and is a barley corn which is worst than a blade. They issued protectors but good luck finding one.
>Turning the bolt blocks your sights

I'm sure there are others.

>>34639489
>I just watched the Bloke on the Range video where he wears Lederhosen and mocks the K98k

Come back when you have actual experience and opinions you aren't literally regurgitating from one average Joe from the internet.

>>34639567
How about you actually refute what was said instead of just being salty?

>>34639430
you build the best action imaginable, and if you put crap sights on it it's still a mediocre gun

>>34639780
I'm not going to pretend he had an actual argument, because Bloke had a bullshit argument to begin with. This anon obviously has no idea what he's talking about if he has to post verbatim what someone else told him.

>>34639865
Ok, so where was the argument bullshit? If it's bullshit, it should be easy to point out right?

>>34632169
Patrick fuck off

I've shot almost all of the WW2 bolt action rifles and in my opinion they are really for all intents and purposes close enough to each other that the only thing that matters is the skill of the shooter (barring garbage like fixed sight Carcano carbines).

They all have little advantages and disadvantages, so it's easy to have a slight preference one way or the other, but in the field you'd be just as capable with a Mauser, Enfield, Springfield or Arisaka.

>>34639983
Before I waste my time in indulging you, why are you bothering to defend a retard parroting shitty opinions

>>34640200
This. Most "advantages" are highly theoretical only.

>>34639489
>It also doesn't have as good primary extraction as the Lee Enfield.

I personally have to disagree with this, I have never had a K98 plop it's brass straight back into the magazine but it happens with a .303 if you don't pull the bolt back hard enough.

>The sling mount makes that place on the stock more likely to brake than a swivel and solid mount.

Have never ever seen a single K98 with a broken stock, not a flaw.

>The single piece bayonet mount is pants on head retarded.

Because? It holds the bayonet firmly, doesn't break under use and means the bayonet has no contact with the barrel. It's one of the better designs.

>The rear and front sight is soldered on, instead of keyd on like a nation that has any idea of what it's doing.

Don't know what the advantage or disadvantage of this is

>The front sight has no protector and is a barley corn which is worst than a blade. They issued protectors but good luck finding one.

Wasn't that hard to find them in WW2, when it was used. The russians took them all off when they storaged the K98s them which is why they are rare today. Barelycorn is probably a little large though compared to a blade it's true. But it's not a big deal as people seem to make of it.


>Turning the bolt blocks your sights

You can't hold a sight picture when turning the bolt on any bolt action so that's pretty irrelevant.

You missed some actual flaws of the K98 though, the most important one really for combat. The sticky bolt.

When your K98 gets too hot that fucker is too finely fitted and you have to get some real pressure on that bolt to get it open, that is definitely a problem.

5 round magazine capacity is also peculiar to me, I am surprised they never added a small even fixed magazine to make it at least 10. I know they had the 20 rounder in WW1 but it seems illogical why they wouldn't give their soldiers a few more rounds.

>>34640312
>5 round magazine capacity is also peculiar to me
Seems like only the brits bothered with more than 5, except for the Carcano. I'm not even going to bother mentioning the K31.

>>34640312
I think the assumption was 'Okay, so magazine cutoffs are a bit stupid and adds cost but I'm going to be damned if we are going to issue 10 rounds for green recruits to burn through like retards'

>>34640386
>>34640406
I guess so, but with all the MG's and SMG's being thrown around in WW2 you'd think they would see the advantage.

In battle I suppose the soldiers didn't see the need or else they would have been demanding it.

>>34632470
Came too late

>>34640312
>I personally have to disagree with this, I have never had a K98 plop it's brass straight back into the magazine but it happens with a .303 if you don't pull the bolt back hard enough.
Primary extraction isn't the same thing as ejection. But you're right. The Mauser has a small piece of metal as the ejector while the britshit just uses friction (the screw is just for ejecting live rounds), so you have to pull the bolt back with purpose.

>Have never ever seen a single K98 with a broken stock, not a flaw.
If you look at the sling mount, there's hairline fractures usually forming. It's why i turned down 2 rifles (other than the price being kinda fucky) until i learned it's fairly common.

>Bayonet mount
A 1 piece mount is theoretically better, but because of the way it's done on the 98, which is the nosecap and a pin, it's not particularly strong and rifles that have seen use will have a loose nosecap.

>Don't know what the advantage or disadvantage of this is
It makes sight replacement much easier. Instead of having to bust out a torch to melt and then getting a jig to resolder, you just screw or unpin the sights. It wasn't a big enough problem for the Krauts cos they tossed rifles with problems in a bin to be sent back to armory, and handed out a new rifle. But objectively, the timed barrel is better.

>Sights and protectors
The protectors should have been part of the gun, even the mosin a first gen smokeless repeater got that right. The barely corn on it's own wouldn't be a problem if the rear sight wasn't as bad as it was too. Together the 98k has some truly awful sights.

>You can't hold a sight picture when turning the bolt on any bolt action so that's pretty irrelevant.
Woah woah, YOU can't hold a sight picture when turning the bolt. I can do it fairly well prone with my P14 or Lee or Krag

>You missed some actual flaws of the K98 though, the most important one really for combat. The sticky bolt.
This is part of the primary extraction.

cont.

>>34640507
>even the mosin a first gen smokeless repeater got that right.
Objectively false.

>using "cos"
Noguns Brit detected.

>>34640312
>The sticky bolt.
The 98 like most bolt actions actually has a curved bit above the bolt handle that the bolt handle has to push against. It's on the third lug on the mosin, and so on. All that does is gives you a slight cam so you have some torque to work with, to extract the casing. The lee is really good with this, i think the mas too, where the rear lugs run in a track themselves giving you a LOT of mechanical leverage to force sticky casing out, or even poor ammo in.

>5 round mags
yea this fucking weird to me. In fact the US liked the aspect of the garand of how fast it was to load, so you can keep fire up very quickly, vs stripper clips.

The lee originally didn't have charger loading, that's kinda why it had the 10 rounder from the get go. You had 2 mags, and 10 rounds each, otherwise you're single loading.

The mauser trench mag was more common than the lee trench mags, yet in ww2 they just didn't issue them as they should have. Especially when you consider the Germans understood massed fire with their abundant issuing of MPs and MGs

I think ignoring the idea that soldiers will waste ammo, i think they still where under the impression that the bolt guns will be used as sharpshooter guns, and the mps and mgs will handle the enclosed areas.

Btw ignoring everything i've said, i still think the mauser action is overall better than the lee for what a bolt gun should be overall, accurate, reliable, strong, all that. But the lee is the better bolt action battle rifle.

>>34640540
>Mosin isn't a first gen smokless military bolt gun
>developed in 1891
>Replaced the blackpowder berdan 2

>noguns
Lol u wish.

>>34640507
>Have never ever seen a single K98 with a broken stock, not a flaw.
If you look at the sling mount, there's hairline fractures usually forming. It's why i turned down 2 rifles (other than the price being kinda fucky) until i learned it's fairly common.

Hmm, I mean I can see that it's a weak point perhaps, but I have not seen it, and certainly we can't call it a real flaw looking at 80 year old rifles these days.

>You can't hold a sight picture when turning the bolt on any bolt action so that's pretty irrelevant.
Woah woah, YOU can't hold a sight picture when turning the bolt. I can do it fairly well prone with my P14 or Lee or Krag

Well I just think any disruption of the sight picture is enough to call it a loss, you still have to reset after waggling your trigger arm all over the place anyway right so that's true of all bolties.

>>34640507
>>34640584
>>34640567

Everything else I agree with btw ^^ good argument.

>>34640584
>>34640593
Yea i agree with what you're saying. We have to remember from the context of the time, the K98 was a perfect gun for the Germans. It had ww1 under it's belt (as the g98). Plus the soldiers being handed these guns, weren't high volume shooters, they didn't really care the sight was being blocked. And the stock sling position had more advantages than disadvantages, better shooting sling.

The k98 for a country that was quickly rearming after the shit that went down cos of Treety Versailles, and bolstered with it's MPs and MGs. Was a fine gun for ww2.

Yes the Americans where bringing in truly modern 8 rounder quick reloading accurate semi auto fire, but they came into play in what 1943?
Everyone else was still armed with basically ww1 hold overs. Even the lee.
The number 1 enemy, the french still had Lebels and berthiers, mostly.

Thanks for the respectful argument, it was fun. Cya around.

>>34640567
>>Mosin isn't a first gen smokless military bolt gun
>>developed in 1891
>>Replaced the blackpowder berdan 2
You retard. You were obviously implying the first gen Mosin had a protected front sight, which it didn't. You're thinking of the 91/30, which didn't come out until 1930, of course. Until then, it had been a thin unprotected blade.

>I wish
Air rifles don't count faggot

>>34640661
Indeed, far too civilized for 4chan. I do love the K98 on the range but would be happy to be issued with a Mauser, Enfield, Springfield or Arisaka if I had to take a boltie (never used a Mas). They all do the job and equal their contemporaries close enough.

>>34635748
Someone figured out how it could.
I might have the pic if I dig around.

>>34640734
show us rn

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>>34640697
I honestly didn't know the first mosins didn't have sight protectors.

1 point to the Russians for figuring something the Germans didn't still.

>Implying no gunz
Eat your heart out

>>34640713
I think functionally, any gun that wasn't the Garand, or an auto anything, you wouldn't really be able to tell. Maybe the (i hate keep going back) the lee you would like your 10 rounds and peep sight, but other than that, it's a bolt gun.

>>34640917
>something the Germans didn't still.
Front sight hoods were standard issue on new production K98k rifles beginning in 1939, and rifles going in for repair were thereafter fitted with hoods for their front sights.

Funny how the K98k is the only rifle that seems to get knocked for not having a front sight protector as standard since its inception, in spite of many rifles of the day lacking them as well.

And you never denied flat out regurgitating what the Bloke has said numerous times in his videos, in spite of his obvious bias toward taking the K98k down a peg rather than the wehraboos that worship what is really an excellent rifle.

>>34640917
Well the 10 rounds is nice on the Enfield but it is a bit front heavy which makes offhand harder and you will get double feeds with those rimmed cartridges sometimes. Still probably overall the best for war.

>>34640997
>Still probably overall the best for war.
Depends on your taste. Assuming an equal amount of training of recruits from a country using a K98k and one using a No.4, and that these recruits also don't have preconceived notions of what sighting system is supposedly "best", they'll end up performing the same because what you're used to using is more important to how "good" the equipment you're using is.

>>34641026
Sure, and actually even though I said the Enfield is probably best for war the K98 is my personal preferfnece, just because of the balance of that I can shoot much more comfortably when I am standing, fatigued or anything. Really either way they are both good enough.

>>34635395
the FAL in 7.62 NATO is a god awful rifle and you know it

>>34640734
>>34640778
>magazine is too far forward
>therefore cannot function
>something something open-bolt

>>34640980
>Funny how the K98k is the only rifle that seems to get knocked for not having a front sight protector as standard since its inception, in spite of many rifles of the day lacking them as well.
Ok how about ANY gun without front sight protectors, loses a point. So canos' 1895 manlickers or whatever, type 38, though the 99 fixed it. The k98 should have had protectors.

>And you never denied flat out regurgitating what the Bloke has said numerous times in his videos, in spite of his obvious bias toward taking the K98k down a peg rather than the wehraboos that worship what is really an excellent rifle.
Someones bias should only make it easier to find flaws in their argument, they are not wrong because they're bias. I used to be the wehraboo who thought krauts had the best everything in ww2, it was actually /k/ who fucked me up, and yes i did end up seeing blokes videos.

Do you deny that the k98 has inferior primary extraction than the lee enfield.

>>34640997
You have potential for rimlock with the rimmed rounds in a lee, but not double feed cos the lee has controlled feel like the k98. The rimlock wasn't that big of an issue, and i've personally tested this with a No1 mk3 and a No4 mk1 of my own, and with a full magazine and purposeful rimlock, a hard push will fix the issue.

And yea the enfield is front heavy. No saving it from that. It also weighs a lot even for it's time.

>>34641026
While you're right overall. the 10 rounds of the enfield gave you a advantage regardless of skills as a soldier. Especially considering that most ammo won't hit anything but dirt, it's useful to be able to toss a whole bunch of lead down range without reloading. Or the sticky bolt on 98 cos of some shoddy ammo that ruptured, and you don't have the same leverage as the lee.

But yea, unless you had experience with both and thus formed a preference you probably won't be all that better or worst.

>>34641202
by that I mean you've never heard of trans-dimensional bolts with a false ejection ports and probably throw the hulls 'out teh top

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>>34634878
Better at losing, sure.

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>>34641214
>The k98 should have had protectors
But it did

>>34641214
>Or the sticky bolt on 98 cos of some shoddy ammo that ruptured
Lol. Ever have it happen to you? Or did your fellow countryman from the internet tell you that because he has a beat to piss shitty rifle?

>>34632041
But the k98 is a polish gun

>>34632243
>taking credit for sumo hayha to make the m91/30 look good

Finnish mosins were made miles snd leagues better than their Russian counterparts

>>34635647
In what regard? I always see you shit talk them in these threads but why? K31 has better accuracy and capacity than most rifles of the war with arguably better action speed

>>34641441
Germans mostly lost because of the crappy allies and the overly high number of Russians. If the Russians were like half of that then the Germans would have had higher chances.

Also Hitler was greedy.
THEIR GUNS AND EQUIPMENT AND VEHICLES WERE ALWAYS MUCH BETTER THO

>>34632121
>two piece firing pin
>30-06 for anything but M1 ball, which wasn't adopted because they were too cheap to purchase the land to train with it on
>paying $10/rifle until after WW1

>>>better sights
Ahem.
For camp Perry maybe.
>>34632128
Good gun.
But. It wasn't used in WW1 OR 2

>>34641885
Peep sights are objectively better than open sights in every regard

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>>34641885
>he actually thinks open sights are better

>>34641805
Saying they aren't the best isn't shit talking first of all. And while they're a little more accurate and have a nicer trigger than most, they have flaws. The sights, the ergos, the weight, action complexity, the use of cardboard chargers instead of a proper stripper clip or Mannlicher clip, and the lack of primary extraction. They're neat rifles and aren't bad by any stretch of the imagination but they do have flaws.

>>34641569
>Lol. Ever have it happen to you? Or did your fellow countryman from the internet tell you that because he has a beat to piss shitty rifle?
Yes. Fire 8mm laquered steel case, and you'll be wondering when your mauser turned into a mosin. And before you say "YEA WELL GERMANS DIDN'T USE STEEL" they used it extensively post 1941, especially in 8mm.

>>34641695
They're still mosins. They're just better fit and Finnish.

>>34632041
>I played a video game and now I know about guns

>>34642089
The sights weren't the best, but better than most others and had a massive shooting culture behind it so it was a non issue anyway. Ergos are a non argument because it's either what you're used to or it isn't. When it comes to weight, it was less than a pound more than a k98k and weighed less that a no.4 Enfield. The action really isn't complex, and if wartime production is your reasoning for it being an issue just remember, almost everyone had a service rifle already anyway. The chargers were made for one purpose:to load the rifle. Load the rifle once, then grab a new loaded charger. They were made of cardboard because it was cheap and worked, not to piss off recreational shooters. Primary extraction is a non issue as well, since the cartridge still gets out of the action. It's a fine gun and I'm sure it does have flaws, it's a shame we couldn't find any though

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>>34632166

>>34642105
The 340 rd spam can of lacquered Romanian surplus I fired out of my rifle begs to disagree.

>>34642105
>Finnish
>lots of parts were made abroad

>>34632041
From a design standpoint, this is unquestionably true. The Mauser 98 pattern is the most complete bolt action design, and is also the most successful bolt action design ever. With its various variants and licensed copys, it's reached 102 million rifle made, dwarfing any other rifles by far. By comparison, the kalashnikov family of carbines sits somewhere around 50 million made.

It's still in production, most notably by Zastava and even still in limited use in militaries (such as the sirius patrol). Tried and true, always copied and never beaten.

>>34633972
>>34635253
iirc the fins used a number of m96s in the winter war and continuation war

>>34643027
Ok man, whatever you wanna believe.

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this is the biggest incoherent mess ever

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it's not the best.
but for me it's the prettiest.

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>>34643952

>>34643579
The Kalashnikov design is stolen from the StG44 so it's still the Germans' credit.

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>>34635669
That's why he went to Switzerland, fucktard.

>>34641885

The sights on a Mauser are fucking trash that only works under absolutely ideal light conditions and I say that as a person who actually likes open sights.

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>>34635325
>M14

Don't you fucking remind me. It shouldn't have been possible to fuck up a Garand.
But they managed it. More than once.

>>34635577
>And russia had snipers who killed over 700

Daily reminder any kill claims originating in WWII Russia are null and void.
They've often claimed more armor kills than the total numbers of enemy armor of all kinds present in the theater of operations since the start of the year.