Reducing pack weight

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Definitely ditch the fuckin laundry pin

>>34628909

Heroin ballons.

Best case would be an exoskeleton, though I have a sick feeling that the actual outcome of that program is going to be guys carrying the same amount as now because the load capacity of the rig is going to be used up by some absurd modern-day knight cosplay that will just get in the way and not actually protect from much. Just a feeling I get in my bunions.

>>34628970

Suppose to be Helium ballons...I guess heroine can do the job too.

>>34628909
You don't carry this unless you are semi-cut off from a supply chain. And this weight becomes a bit normal after a few years anyways.

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>>34628976
that's a lot of balloons. Id' for the heroine instead.

>>34628944
shown actual size

>keked
>checked
>rekd

>>34628909
What you fail to realize is that if you were to find some way to reduce the weight of "light" infantry kit, the powers that be would just then say "good, carry more shit now"

average pack weight for soldieres has been about a 100 pounds since ancient greece.

every time we make something lighter, or delete it. they just find something else to make us carry.

we either need to go to powered exoskelectons, or start medically altering soldiers to be stronger and go longer.

No, sorry, I really don't think it can get any lighter, not considerably anyway.
Water is by far the heaviest part of a kit. It's not getting any lighter.
Armor can get lighter, sure, but this is a gradual process.
Ammo could be lighter, potentially, but it likely won't be so considerably lighter that you could notice a difference, and even if it's lighter you'll be forced to carry more.
Uniforms, boots, inclement weather gear and undergarments will likely never get lighter than they are now without compromising durability.
Various other things like E-Tools, ISO Mats, sleeping gear and batteries will never get lighter either.

I honestly feel like we've reached a practical peak of weight savings. As things get lighter, missions change, forcing warfighters to just carry more.

>>34628909
Exoskeletons

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>>34630663
>Water is by far the heaviest part of a kit. It's not getting any lighter.

We have dehydrated fruits and meats these days. Why can't we get dehydrated water?

>>34628909
Make leadership less retarded.

>>34628909
>make infantry carry 100+ pounds
>wonder why the VA is up to their nose in vets with the bodies of 60 year old laborers when they're barely 30

Seriously, cut down on the damn weight, humans aren't designed to carry that much for a prolonged period, great way to ruin your body.

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>>34628909

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>>34630743
or admit that shit ass organized PT, shit ass medical care while active, and human body abilities are insufficient.

time to start chemically altering the military and give soldiers more down time by cutting bullshit in garrison.

>Its Ruckmarch time
>Its fuckin hot
>DUHH DON'T USE RUCKSACK USE ASSAULT PACK
>Its fuckin full plus a full bladder I somehow stuffed in there
>DUHH ITS HOT SO TAKE OFF YOUR KEVLAR
>Ok I guess
>PUT IT IN YOUR ASSAULT PACKS
>Stuff a kevlar into an already full backpack
>Ruck for the next 2hours and 45 minutes in 90% humidity with a giant bulge against my back the entire time

THANK YOU LEADERSHIP

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>>34630760
that backwards helmet cover though

lighter armor and load carriage equipment, smaller/lighter batteries, smaller radios/LRFs/optics, and lighter either polymer cased or caseless ammunition would all incrementally reduce a fighting load.

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>>34630702

>>34630801
You think that's a circus.

No shit, there I was in West Point for a whole summer supporting the cadet's summer activities. Day 1 with new candidates they were issued some gear with little instructions on setting them up. One of them shows up in the following morning with the helmet cover left side front. Right side back.

>>34630820
and then they add more ammo, medical, batteries, or some new bullshit to your kit.

I had the pleasure of having to hump 100 pounds of my own stuff, plus a 45 pound high freq radio 3000 feet up an afghan mountain. no trail either. thankfully I had someone else to help carry the radio.

>>34628909

The only options are:

>Reduce survivability of the soldier by reducing or eliminating ballistic protection

By far the heaviest single piece of kit a soldier carries is their ballistic armor. Already we see a MASSIVE shift of soldier preference leaning toward less and less armor. No side plates, smaller form factor plate carrier rigs are preferred by special forces. However, the highest echelon of army procurement for some reason keeps adding MORE bullshit. Pauldrons, combat diapers, etc. These things are universally reviled, yet leadership (read congressmen getting bribes or increasing muh jobs) keep adding more. I doubt we will ever see a widespread adoption of a very sleek and light minimal armor set up for the average soldier. We are almost certainly never going to return to "industrial warfare" like WW2 where literally the amount of humans and materiel you could put out cancelled out, strategically, individual loses. We will never again value humans as simple expendable commodities again and we will probably never see the elimination of ballistic armor. If anything it will only get heavier.

>Allow the troops to "live off the land"

That is to say, let them loot and pillage what they need where they end up. Need shelter? You don't need a tent, just take that guys house, kill him if he doesn't cooperate. Need food? Don't ruck it in, take it. And going on and on. We will never do this because "muh hearts and minds" the days of looting and pillaging are over.

>Create a lesser class that is in charge of carrying shit for the soldiers

In ancient times you had slaves. The end. You had people who carried the shit of the soldiers and did the manual labor. Depending on the army (Rome) the soldiers might do it all, but many of the most formidable ancient armies (Darius' Persia) had massive entourages that followed the army. We would never do this because "muh equal rights".

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>>34630760

>builds exoskeleton able to carry 300lbs
>cannot operate without carrying 300lb batteries


thanks darpa

>>34630828
Kek
I used to go to a Senior Military College, so I know how fucked up cadets are.

>>34630769
God damned it's fucking time

>>34630636
No they haven't, also forgetting carts drawn by animals accompanied by families.

>>34628909
-Ditch all that heavy cold weather clothing for aerogel jackets that weigh nothing and are far warmer than oodles of different tops and pants to pack.
-One e-tool per two people.
-Only one spare uniform to rest in (dry) and change back into the one that's become wet during patrolling. You don't need all the shit you were ever issued with you.
-Assault packs that are more ergonomic on the shoulders.
-More weight respecting MREs (All that fucking cardboard and plastic? And so few calories to go with it all?)
-Resupply vehicles have battery chargers/spare batteries. I hate humping batteries.
-Oh yeah, biggest one, DITCH FUCKING PLATES. Delta is allowed to do it.

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>>34630844
>Well lets build small robots to carry the batteries
>Now we need bigger batteries sir.
FUCK!

>>34630913

literally these things can only carry their batteries. they're self propelled batteries.

>>34630834

2 of 2

>Increase military standards so everyone brings literally the bare minimum and everything else is produced on site

The Romans did this expertly. They built what they needed. However, they had one important distinction with today's military. You would be straight up executed if you fucked around. No article 15, no bullshit chapter paperwork, you would be whipped or killed. We just won't do that anymore.

>Allow soldiers some other "benefits" to make up for sub standard living conditions.

Yes, it's cold, yes you don't have proper gear for it. Yes you are hungry, yes, we didn't bring food for you. But you can go and just rape the shit out of the population of that city and drink as much booze as you like. Obviously, we can't reduce the amount of "comfort" items and not replace them with something else for the enjoyment of the troops. Since raping the entire female population of a conquers territory is verboten now the soldier needs to carry their comfort.

>Increase mechanized support

This might be possible if 1) modern armies weren't force projecting across the literal planet increasing logistics trains to LITERALLY the other side of the planet. And 2) of the government would acquire the actual best equipment for the troops instead of what will keep "creating" muh jobs for a congressman's district. The HMMWV (Humvee) is an engineering disaster and should have been replaced with F-150s or another equivalent not shit truck the moment we realized this. As it stands you need entire battalions to keep the shitheaps running, no wonder we can't just carry the bullshit with vehicles. And trusting a private to NOT fuck around with an ATV outside of the special forces is just asking for him to evil kineval across a valley and kill himself.

>>34630834
Interesting take.

Honestly soldiers in WW1/2 and for a few hundred years before that seemed to do fine just fine carrying a bed roll, canteen, cartridge belt and a rifle into war.

>>34630834
This is why I believe in mental health screening at meps.

>>34630908
a hoplite's shield was 30 pounds of solid bronze.

not much you can really do about it

going on target all i take is armor, gat, ammo, water, aid bag, zip ties and room markings and its still a bitch to bound with

id honestly drop armor if it was my call

>>34631074
the 4400 dead and 32000 wounded of the iraq war was already too high for most american's delicate sensibilities. they'll never drop armor.

>>34631074
>id honestly drop armor if it was my call
Just drop plates, and even then if nothing else then only the rear plate and side plates. Bullet resistant plates are fucking cancer, if you get hit and they stop the bullet you supposedly still feel like you got hit by a car.

>>34631102
>>34631132

i do wonder if we were fighting a more conventional war how much of an impact armor would make

alls i know is that you move slower, its harder to get out of the prone, youre more likely to fall over if you trip or lose your balance on something, and it makes it harder to clear through tight halls, doors, and staircases, and you make a fuckload more noise with it on

Switch from military contract GI equipment to specialized equipment from the civilian world. Rucks, boots, radios (w/ encryption stuffums), etc.

>>34631132
guy in my first unit was shot in the plate in a previous deployment. solid black bruise on his chest the size of a melon. he was sitting in the sling of the HMMWV turret and got knocked down and banged his head on the rim of openning. it wasn't serious, but head wounds bleed like crazy no matter what.

>>34631142
>i do wonder if we were fighting a more conventional war how much of an impact armor would make
probably a fairly significant one, but i wouldn't be surprised if all of this ceramic plate shit stops the moment we enter into a conventional war. you'll probably just get a thick steel plate designed to take as many 5.56 rounds as possible. use the plate until it breaks, or you die.

>>34631249
my thoughts are that given the technology we have now in regards to targeting, the only times youre really getting shot at by something small enough that your armors gonna stop it is in an urban environment, and if thats the case, odds are if youre getting shot once youre getting shot a bunch.

id much rather have the speed

>>34631275
>the only times youre really getting shot at by something small enough that your armors gonna stop it is in an urban environment
not at all. the plates are there to cover your vitals. any other part of your body can probably take a bullet or two, except maybe your head. so what if you get shot in the arm?

>>34631290
i dont understand what your point is

armor is worth it because you might get shot in a part without armor?

>>34631313
no, armor is worth it because it protects the part of your body that can not survive getting shot under any circumstances.

>>34630834
>>34630945
>reads post
No.

>>34628909
>How would you decrease the carrying weight
Carry less food and water. The other answer is you cant. They lightened all our kit and made our packs bigger. The problem is now we can carry more light wight and smaller shit in a pack with greater volume.

>>34631318
well yea, but what i was getting at is that if youre gonna get shot, youre probably gonna get shot a bunch of times, which means your armor is gonna be rendered ineffective

>>34631348
and so what? better to be shot 5 times in the legs and live than to be shot once in the pecs and die.

>>34631275
>id much rather have the speed
Speed is not the only reason body armor is bullshit. Think about a soldier/marine who has been wearing body armor every day on a patrol for hours and hours. This individual will be fatigued. A fatigued and tired individual will have a harder time pulling security shifts during the rest plan. He will be less alert with his head down from tiredness while walking instead of scanning. During a fire fight he will have adrenaline to keep him up sure, but it would work better when coupled with an energized and motivated warrior.

>>34631355
i dont think you understand what im saying

in an urban environment, engagements tend to be within 50m, sometimes much closer

this means the likelihood of someone scoring multiple hits on you is pretty high, especially during room clearance

armor breaks when its hit multiple times, not to mention armor doesnt protect the arteries in your legs, arm, the neck, the groin, or the chest cavity from the sides and shoulders.

its a lot of weight to be carrying like >>34631366
anon said for what i imagine wouldnt be a whole lot of reward

course, the dudes who do take a round to the plates and live would think otherwise, but im just speculating that in a conventional conflict, armor would actually increase the amount of casualties sustained

>>34631142
>>34631249
>>34631275
>>34631290
>>34631348
>>34631366
Body armor isn't going away, what needs to go is all this hi tech bullshit that needs batteries.
Not everyone needs a PEC-15, not everyone needs radios, NVG's and other crap.

>>34631410
It mother fucking better, congress can kiss my ass.

>>34628982
No it doesnt. Your spine just deteriorates and you get better at ignoring it.

>>34631410
>not needing lasers, radios, and nods
bruh

>>34631410
that shit barely weighs anything tho and is 100% worth it

>>34630663
More with less, sir.

>>34630716
Literally this.

>>34631425
You are a noserve retard, I'd take plates EVERY DAMN TIME.
>Mah speed
Unless you're the fucking Flash you're not dodging bullets or fragmentation studies have shown casualty reduction by %60 by wearing armor and it's not ending.

>>34631433
>>34631444
That shit is garbage, if you think NVG's Lasers and Radios are vital go ask the Taliban why they've held for so long.

>>34631457
I will agree that being stuck in garrison and not deploying anytime soon is no serve, but I would like to see those studies you mention

>>34631475
not by winning fights at night with platoon sized elements lol

>>34631483
Do you know what causes the most casualties? Fragmentation, and the introduction of flak jackets reduced this considerably, and then the introduction of SAPAI helped to mitigate rifle fire.

>>34631528
Flak jackets helped considerably in Vietnam so it follows that they helped in OEF and OIF sure but where did you find that percentage?

>>34631475
>why they've held for so long.
ieds

>>34630663
The army has etools too? For what, how to ruck and burn shit barrels?

>>34631621
no one carries an etool with them on a patrol mate

>>34628909
Drone deliveries. Instead of depending on ground supply routes, just expand the logistical chain of supply. Have autonomous supply vehicles the size of small cars follow soldiers around so they can throw water, extra ammo, and other heavy shit in it yet still have it be accessible. For really remote/rugged areas, use heavy lift quadrotors that can take off with equipment from a nearby outpost and deliver shit in under 30 minutes.

>>34631475
They're not projecting force on the far side of the planet and if they need anything at all they can beat and rape it out of the local populace. If we played by those rules this shit would have been over a loooong time ago.

>>34628909
Better integrated power systems or at the very least standardization on battery types. At the rate we're stacking on batteries and spares, it'd be lighter to have one single power system that powers everything and a carry a complete spare for that system.

Armor could be lighter but thats expensive for the same capability. Similarly Plastic Cased ammo. Even those meme Shell Shock cases could save 2lbs.

But no matter what you do, they'll just add more shit to carry. A better idea would be to mandate a limit on total weight carried. Until that happens no matter what weight you save it'll just be added on in something else.

>>34630912
>aerogel jackets
Grinds itself to useless dust as you move.
Making it out of styrofoam would be 100x more durable.
>Oh yeah, biggest one, DITCH FUCKING PLATES. Delta is allowed to do it.
Only if we don't have to pay your Pension/Gratuity/Compensation to you or your family if you get shot somewhere the plate would have covered.

Rest makes sense.

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>>34630702

>>34628909
>Wearing my flak and slinging my ILBE on
Ahh, it's like I can still feel my pack pushing the ceramic plate into my back.

>120 pounds

Every guy likes to say the 100 pounds thing. Truth is as a SAW Gunner I was loaded to 100 max. Guys with m16s/m4s more like 70-75. It's still fucking heavy and cumbersome though.

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>>34628909

That is a tiny ruck. I remember having to lay down on the ruck, pull the straps on, roll over then try to stand up. Sometimes that wouldn't even work. I would need two people to pull me by my arms.

>>34633052
>Guys with m16s/m4s more like 70-75.
i know guys who packed a lot of useless shit with them

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>>34630912
You sound like a pussy

>>34630946
This

The combat load should not exceed 35 LB. The US Army knew this from the time of its creation until 'Nam. Then, in the 1980s, they carried more and more, so that by the mid-90's a soldier carried 100+ lbs.

You need for most missions: Weapon, ammo, two meals, two canteens, first aid kit, clothes on your back and boots. Resupply via helo or convoy for the rest.

What really pisses me off is people who complain about humping their rifle. I carried a M240G and loved it, every second. I carried my own ammo too. Fucking faggots need to get in shape.

>>34633377
>two canteens

Enjoy being a heat casualty after the first 4 hours. 6 liters is the absolute minimum for water; if you're out in the desert in day or expecting a fight, more is better.

>>34633391
The deseet is a specialized environment where you need more water but for all its island-hopping the Marines in WW2 used two canteens. They had started with just one until the Navy ran away that one time and the Marines changed their load-out to two canteens. You need water for wounds also, so you should try and drink like a camel before you go out on patrol. Drink one gallon before you go. Piss-breaks are OK, but quit with the 100 LB pack BS. After 30 years and countless injuries, we still can't figure this out and only carry a meager 200 rounds into combat. It should be more like 1000 rounds per soldier and cut the rest of the crap.

>>34633065
FILBEs really aren't huge. But they seem bigger on the inside. They pack into kind of a sphere, rather than the typical vertical shape like the ILBE or civilian packs.

>>34630702
>packet of dehydrated water
>just add water

Fuck.

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>>34630702

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>>34633377
>I carried a M240G and loved it

>>34631674

>if we played by those rules

Russians did.
They lost.

If you played by their rules, you'd be looking at double casualties as every town became a death trap with Al Qaeda/Taliban supporters and you suddenly get waves of shit intel from locals because Osama's brother gave them $1000 for misdirections so you walk into an IED.

The Afghanis were a fucking nightmare to deal with anyway thanks to the bullshit lies that translators gave them like the US would promise to build schools and shit for villages if they supported US forces with intel.

>>34630702
yep. oxygen is heavier than hydrogen, so we could mix hydrogen with helium to make it lighter, then we you're thirsty you just add oxygen

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>>34634590
holy shit that's crazy enough to work. Not the helium part because that's not how density works, but a tank of compressed hydrogen could be carried for less weight than water. Then you use a fuel cell to combine the hydrogen with airborne oxygen. Using a fuel cell will create less waste heat than burning so you won't have to cool the water vapor as much, plus you can charge your exo-suit with the fuel cell.
>yfw your buddy gets shot while taking a sip of water

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>>34631545
not him but I have this
Fig1 + Table 1&2 from A Profile of Combat Injury, Journal of Trauma, 2003

>>34633411
actually 2 canteens is not unrealistic for non-desert environments
https://youtu.be/awKC_DL1GBM?t=255

>>34634889
sorry wrong reply >>34633391

less burgers, more lifting

>>34631074
>>34631132
>>34631142
>>34631249
>>34631275
>>34631348
>>34631401
>>34631425
>>34631444

>armor is pretty much pointless

ok privates and neverserves. You don't have any experience nor a substantiated opinion. Helmets, soft armor, plates are not going away. This whole 'multi hit ceramic plates break' meme is a marketing scheme by people selling steel plates to people who will never shoot at anyone. Ceramic plates and helmets greatly increase survivability


>>34631770

>delta ditches plates

yea, you're a fucking retard.

>you lose your life insurance money if you arent wearing proper PPE

you believe that just because a company commander told you so? Please, source me one instance of a soldier or marine being killed while not wearing approved PPE in combat where the DOD refused to pay their family 400k.

>Excuse me, are you the parents of Joe Private?
>We regret to inform you that your son has been killed in combat.
>I'm also here to tell you he was not wearing any side plates at the time even though his company commander said he had to
>for this, you will recieve no money
>there will also be no funeral, because they pushed his corpse into a burn pit
>you also dont get a folded flag, but here's my instagram handle on the back of this napkin, follow me

kill yourself.

>>34635046
dawg i aint saying armors pointless because ive seen dudes live through explosions because of it. my gripe was that i would personally ditch armor if i had to lose weight, also that in a conventional modern conflict i think that armor wouldnt be as valuable.

calm down

>>34635072
>in a conventional modern conflict i think that armor wouldnt be as valuable.

I don't get this. What makes small arms fire different if its a trained Russian Fighter or some Haji?

>>34635141
it doesnt. what it does change is how often small arms engagements will be had.

with ISR, artillery, airstrikes, and the advanced targeting systems found on most vehicles now i think infantry would only wind up fighting infantry to a) mop up after an airstrike on an enemy position or b) MOUT

both instances would likely involve small arms engagements under 50m

>>34635176

you're a fucking retard.

SS + GOMAD

Pack mules. Literal pack mules.

Or robot pack mules from those Boston dynamics nerds.

Also caseless ammo.

>>34635184
i mean yea. lets hear how you think itd happen instead

>>34635200

Do you think everyone is going to be completely buttoned up inside armored vehicles the entire time? Should we just get rid of small arms too since we have vehicles? Why do mout when we can just bomb everything in our path. are you in the military?

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The M4 could drop about 1lb with lighter furniture. That's leaving all the internals normal, don't fuck with BCG weight.

>>34635312
1. no, but i do know that if theres infantry running around itll be with vehicle support
2. thats silly and not at all what i was saying
3. because bunker systems and key cities

>>34630629
fucking THIS
>still have 1 year 4 months left of this hell

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>>34631345
>problem is now we can carry more light wight and smaller shit in a pack with greater volume.
Exactly.
Unless you are LRRPing, I dont know why soldiers need anything more than what would fit in an ALICE pack or similar sized pack.
40lbs ruck is all you need for a tumble in the bush

>>34635374
heat

>>34628909
put in less things i guess?????

>>34630663
>water is by far the heaviest part of a kit
Nigger wut.

I wear around 38lbs of armor (vest with front/back/side plates and helmet, not including DAPs, chaps, throat guard, nutflap, cowboy collar, or the other add-on pieces). I carry less than 15lbs of water (~5L) including the water carriers (2x1qt canteens and a 3L camelbak). For that matter I carry around 40lbs of ammo, 25lbs of comms/radio, and damn near 10lbs of medical.

>ammo could be lighter
They'll just make us carry more. As it is I'm carrying 9x 30rd mags, 2 porkchops for the M249, 3 smoke grenades, 2 frag grenades, half a dozen pen flares, and 2 boxes for the M240. Sometimes I also have to carry a bandolier of 40mm HEDP because our grenadiers are loaded up with smoke and flare rounds.

>>34630990
And he carried it, his helmet, and his spear. And nothing fucking else because they had slaves and a baggage train to carry their food, water, and shelter.

>>34635670
i'll have you know i have over 300 confirmed pounds

>>34635383
>but I do know that if there's infantry running around itll be with vehicle support
lolno. 2 tours in Afghanistan and 99% of the time were were somewhere you couldn't get a truck and 80% of the time somewhere you couldn't get a helicopter due to a combination of weather and altitude. If we needed fire support it came from the company level mortars, or if S really HTF battalion level 105's.

>>34635757
im talking about a conventional war not war on dirt farmers. even still i dont know about you guys but we had ISR on every target we hit even if it was a 7k offset cuz of shitty terrain

invasion of iraq for example.

>>34630990
You're right, 30 pounds of bronze is a good use of resources and absolutely won't hinder the soldier's movement, reflexes, or stamina.

>>34635788
>I'm talking about a conventional war
Oh, so you're fantasizing about something that will never happen again between world powers and probably never happen again even between regional powers.

Got it.

>wtf captcha, 6 pages of street signs?

>>34635825
thats what this whole conversation that you jumped into has been about

>>34630663
>Various other things like E-Tools, ISO Mats, sleeping gear and batteries will never get lighter either.

Various materials usually come out that either increase durability without increasing weight (significantly) or lighter materials that are just as effective.

>>34630990
it was wood covered with leather covered with bronze

>>34630945
>Comfort objects

Army issue fleshlights, digicam exterior, OD interior.

Give it a few years and Magpul will come out with a black one that has rails on all four sides.

Two years after that the original issue ones will be replaced with new fleshlights that have a tan inside instead of OD to denote the new self lubricating material.

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I would go with some sort of muffled ATV to carry the heavy stuff that gets used the least.

>>34635838
uhhhh.....no.

The premise was "how to reduce the carried load of the current US soldier"

The current US soldier is fighting shitskins. The former US soldier was fighting shitskins. The future US soldier will be fighting shitskins.

>>34633377
>You need for most missions: Weapon, ammo, two meals, two canteens, first aid kit, clothes on your back and boots. Resupply via helo or convoy for the rest.

Thanks expert but if you had ever done any time in an Infantry unit you'd also remember:

>Spare link
>More link
>Rockets
>Claymores
>Demolition explosives
>Comms
>Optics
>Tools
>Mortar rounds

There are a multitude of things that you require, even for 24 hours. Consider that every war in modern history has featured at least some men being told to pack for a week and spending 80 days in the field, you can see why there's a tendency to carry a lot of stuff.

>>34635895
thats the thread topic

what you replied to was the evolution of that topic into a conversation on how good armor would actually be in conventional war

l2reading comprehension

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>>34635885

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>>34635917
And you're still wrong. How about that.

>>34635953
>every post in your screenshot is talking about conventional war minus the one you posted
>im wrong
?

Some observations:

Marching order and fighting order are two different things. The bulk of the fighting order is the protection and weaponry. If you want to reduce the marching order, then you need to accept limitations in your capabilities. You can lower the weight of the fighting order by providing lighter, but ultimately more expensive, equipment - but that's marginal. Reducing the weight of the marching order has much deeper implications, particularly in what you're tasked to do in the first place.

If you are to go down the latter route, which is the only way of really impacting that weight, you have two outcomes. The first is that you lose capability across the board. Each brick, section, platoon, company etc loses firepower and flexibility with more and more reliance on battalion, or even divisional, level assets. The second is that you drastically alter your doctrine, either by introducing more or different vehicles or choosing your wars better.

Neither of those outcomes are acceptable, especially the latter, so unfortunately you're stuck with bergens the size of Belgium for the foreseeable future.

To those harking back to the "good old days", our marching order in Borneo in 1963 was about 130lb and a fighting order of around 60lb. In the Radfan it was heavier. Lighter than now, surely, but not light.

>>34630834
>kill him if he doesn't cooperate.
Congrats you've just pissed off the local population and created an armed rebellion.

>>34635897

>Every soldier should carry claymores, c4 rockets and fucking mortar rounds.

Just have everyone drag an m2hb on a tripod at this point.

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>>34635670

Know how I know you've never been to combat and are probably an <E-3?

>38 lbs of armor

the heaviest body armor ever issued, the USMCs MTV weighed 30lbs + 3lb helmet both size medium.

30+3 = 33lbs

>DAPs, chaps, throat guard, nutflap, cowboy collar, or the other add-on pieces)

Including all the useless over armored accessories that you mentioned that no one uses anymore and did not use beyond 2006-2008 non-combat Iraq deployments.

>40lbs of ammo

A single magazine of 5.56 weighs 1.14lbs. you claim to carry 9 magazines. That's 10.26lbs.

Where's the other 30lbs coming from?

You claim to carry 2 "porkchops" whatever those are, of linked 5.56. 200 rounds of 5.56 linked in a plastic box weighs 6.9 lbs. that's 14lbs plus you claimed 9 mags bringing you to a staggering 24lbs of ammo.

You claim you're ALSO carrying two 18lb cans of 7.62 for the 240.... yeah, no. you're not.

>25lbs of comms/radio

A PRC-117g weighs 12lbs with batteries.
So you're carrying a 117golf+SEVEN 5590's (2.2lbs each) all by yourself?

>10lbs of medical

An issued IFAK weighs 4lbs.

>sometimes I carry a bandolier of 40mm

ok kid

>>34636055
It's not a matter of should. It's a matter of "does". You carry a vast amount of stuff that you may personally never use, because that's the only way you're getting it around. The man using breaching or demolition explosives does not personally carry all of them. If the mortars are moving then the projectiles are spread out to aid the movement.

M2s are man portable over shorter distances, with a limitation on ammunition. Whilst it is rare it is not unheard of.

>>34631249
>5.56
You mean .300BO

>>34630834
>>That is to say, let them loot and pillage what they need where they end up. Need shelter? You don't need a tent, just take that guys house, kill him if he doesn't cooperate. Need food? Don't ruck it in, take it. And going on and on. We will never do this because "muh hearts and minds" the days of looting and pillaging are over.

>food
>locally sourced
Okay. Your entire fighting force will have infinite shits, die of dysentery and is easily vulnerable to getting the shit poisoned out of them by the enemy since you're living off THEIR land. Not a single bite that soldiers eat nowadays is locally sourced, it all comes down the supply chain from the POGs, and for good reason.

>Create a lesser class that is in charge of carrying shit for the soldiers
Literally POGs, you don't know fucking anything about the military do you?

Do you think anybody but a handful of retarded-ass light infantry actually walk anywhere anymore? EVERYONE is mechanized or motorized, especially the supply chain. The only people who go without wheels or tracks or aircraft are stationary guards or scouts or 2leet5me operators (at least those who think of themselves as such) or when using a vehicle is literally completely fucking impossible for whatever reason.

>>34633377
>I carried a M240G and loved it
Saying that on an anime image board doesn't make it true

>>34630834
Wrong.
>Reduce survivability of the soldier by reducing or eliminating ballistic protection

Drop the armor and get soldiers out of their vehicles and you'll see survivability go up because they're spread out, have better visibility and not sucking wind due to humping a 1/3 of their body weight in Kevlar. Teach soldiers the principles of mantracking and their observational skills will increase a lot.

>Allow the troops to "live off the land"

Or they could buy it from the locals. Sgt Smith buys one of Ahmed's goat. Abdul the insurgent steals a goat at gunpoint. Who does Ahmed like more?

>Create a lesser class that is in charge of carrying shit for the soldiers

Because slaves don't rebel, or sabotage things. And camp followers aren't much better.

Figure out how to use drones to resupply troops and figure out water sources so troops can re-supply themselves. Lightweight backpackers can do a week with 10-20 pounds. The ability is out there I think.

>>34636285

>im living in fantasy land

the post

>>34634590
>>34634826
ok so this technically would work except it would make pure H2O, which is not good for you because it leeches minerals from your body and tastes terrible

>>34636285
You have brain damage

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>>34628909
>>34628909

>>34630769
Truth is I rarely feel like running 8 miles or rucking 12 miles.

>>34628909
I had 4 days off food, tent, sleep bag, air mattress, stove, 3 liters of water, filter, spare clothes and lots of socks and a bunch of other shit and it came in under 50 pounds.

What are they carrying?

>>34628909
Honestly this seems like a real western thing to make all troops carry a shit ton of equipment . Looking back a bit in the rest of the world like the Soviets and other comblock nations, they seem to always be emphasize being lightweight carrying only ammo, water, and maybe food and protective equipment(if neccesary) and would store all the heavy shit in a vehicle with the only exceptions being mountain infantry because vehicles can't go where legs go. I mean just looking at their packs none of them go above 30L or so across the board.

>>34636942
canceled.

>>34637614
Batteries and Body Armor

>>34637658
Asymmetry is a thing in REAL wars, if every soldier is very self-sustaining it is major bonus. But this kind of war has not been seen in a while so things like this seem obsolete.

If there was a real was those cars and trucks would be burning really fast and prime targets. Now you have squads there with no supplies.

>>34637789
Don't forget boolets, gotta have more boolets

>>34628909

Was US Army infantry for years. I never carried extra clothing on mission unless it was for warmth. One uniform will last a week easily. I preferred to not have wet weather gear with me because it was either drenched by the rain or drenched in sweat while wearing ww gear.

The MRE should be replaced with a meal replacement bar like power bars. Most people cant stand the food in that shit anyways. Most missions in todays age are <3 days. You can eat power bars and misc snacks for three days and be fine.

Stop loading up our weapon systems with shit we dont need.We keep backup iron sights "just in case" yet never zero or qual with them. Outside of qual and being forced to I used my peq 15 a total of zero times in theater. Im not saying it doesn't have a good use... but you really trying to say the army cant find someone to make a smaller and lighter version of a fucking laser? Lastly the new gen of buttstocks being issue are far too heavy for their own good. Get some lightweight minimalist shit on there.

Ammo- the next innovation in firearms should be case-less ammunition. Hopefully that will save weight.

Put some god damn money into making the technology we use lighter- radios especially.

Issued boots are too damn heavy. Issue everyone Salomons or some shit.

Combat shirts should replace the uniform for garrison and field work.

I dont need 15 fucking pockets on my pants. All pockets do is add extra weight and layers of fabric which traps more heat when your soldiers are already getting overheated in the fucking desert. When I was in I would cut off every extra pocket from my field pants. Youd be surprised how much cooling difference a couple half foot sections of cloth removed makes.

Thats all I can think of

Less non-white/women pog's ?
Gravity balanced exoskeleton taking weight off peoples legs/spines/shoulders?
Daily deliveries via autonomous paramotor to squads in the field?

>>34630908
Carts can be drawn by people too, thats something that was very common in the past, man-pulled carts
Nowadays they just accept ruined knees as normal.

>>34630834
You could still have unarmored troops carrying the mortars + extra gear in the middle of a patrol. To bring overall weight being carried per grunt down.

Then again its 2017 and foot patrols should be a thing of the past. Where are the "silent" electric all terrain vehicles

>>34628909
don't decrease carried weight, increase load capacity

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>>34630702
>>34634390

>Just add water
I kekd loudly in class holy shit.

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>>34638052
i understand women but
>non-white
what
what does race have to do with the ability to ruck?

US hasn't faced an opponent with artillery in a LONG time, so their doctrinal approach to armor is massive divorced from the realities of a peer vs peer war.

In the REALITY of warfare most kills are by shrapnel/concussion.

>>34638133
civvie or yank, or yank civvie confirmed.

>>34630716
That's actually impossible.

>>34628909
backpackers have been pondering this shit for years with no end in sight.
even with the most high speed, ultra modern,super light equipment available. you'll have some nco tell you that they have this one extra thing they need you to carry and every one else is maxed out.

>>34631432
confirmed, have mild scoliosis now from all the rucking

>>34631366
>During a fire fight he will have adrenaline to keep him up sure, but it would work better when coupled with an energized and motivated warrior.
This is how and why meth was invented.

>>34635176
The F4 Phantom would like to have words with you regarding what is and is not obsolete on the current day and age of combat.

>>34638427
Yeah even with adrenaline, you get tired as shit running around with armor on

>>34638209
Affirmative action is a serious problem

>>34631401
even modern ceramic can take a dozen hits by its relative second-string threats before the composite material has enough holes dusted in it to be rendered effectively useless, steel can take multiple dozens before shattering but sucks wind and can't hack high-velocity threats

>>34634562
never trust a translator, especially not one who works on eromanga

>>34631644
Big Dog is too noisy

>>34636746
re-up mineral supplements in MREs and methtabs

>>34637985
Was US Marine infantry for years. Never got issued cold/wet weather clothing, so I made sure to bring an extra set of cams.

MREs make you shit a brick but they are much better for morale. ChiliMac is a fucking godsend, but Omelet can eat a dick omelette. Hot food is heavenly when your mission is longer than three days.

Lighter equipment isn't as grunt-proof. The lighter something is, the easier it is to break. Boots especially. They're heavy because they're durable.

Cargo pants are the fucking shit. They're two (2) extra pockets for you to keep snacks, porn, or ammo in.

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>>34638552
ok... they warned the retards that this is a prototype and it would be made less noisy
Then they complained that it's too noisy

But thats what they were asking for getting the Marines to test it

Anyways bring back the Hand Cart

>>34638606
AS THOSE CAISSONS GO ROLLING ALONG

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>>34630702
kek

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>>34630702
Fund it now.

>>34630946
Soldiers carry a lot more capabilities now. Packable drones, Long range radios to communicate, Optics to see further, Equipment to fight at night. It's no surprise they carry more.

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>>34628909
easy peasy. move slower. that allows supply lines a chance to actually fucking work, and allows you to actually pacify areas you move into. Shock and Awe tactics don't do shit against insurgency, they just dig in quietly and lay lots of IEDs for you. Go slow, be thorough, and your troops won't need to carry a whole fucking FOB on their backs in case they get too far out and get stranded

Taking ground doesn't mean much against a mobile insurgency. The military needs to stop fighting the last war

>>34636746
Salt and mineral tablets shouldn't weigh more than a few grams per gallon.

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>>34638209

>acts like the sheniqua pog shamming at her critical supply job on deployment like a typical nigger isnt a problem in the army.

>>34638789
that advantage works for the enemy as well, and it'd be foolish to let people who want to kill you have an advantage

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>>34635568
what about it? Carbon fiber is not going to melt. Carbon fiber is fucking EXCELLENT against host barrels, most entries in the Army's suppressor testing program use carbon fiber so that the heat of the suppressor isn't transferred to the user'ss hand. The barrel doesn't have to be made thinner either.

>>34628909
Better Logistics and less stupid wars.

>>34639466
yeah fuck off

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>>34639466
I think anon means why non-white males won't have the same ability to ruck

>>34638789
This.

Sending infantry rushing off into the mountains/desert for 16 years has done fuck-all against the Jihadists. Hold the cities with permanent encampments and just MOAB the remote villages.

>>34639918
Everybody knows that's the right way to do it. They just don't want to spend the money to send a large enough force.

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>>34628909
They're working on robots that can carry excess supplies that'll travel with soldiers. Problems are power and reliability but it'll be fixed in time.

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>>34630702

>>34640591
When power and reliability get fixed why not just use exoskeletons at that point?

>>34639758
proportionately they ruck less

>>34640620
>trumpkin_pie.jpg

>>34631475
By hiding in the mountains and paying/raping the locals into planting IEDs.

>>34640620
I hate pies they're always so judgemental.

>>34640636
[Uncited facts about infantry??]

>>34639758
he's a big guy

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>>34637469
>>34637469
The fucking truth.
I'm glad im getting out.

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Long and short is you don't.

>Take one piece of equipment away
Cue brilliant LT's idea
>Now we can carry this other piece of equipment!

If you were to build an exoskeleton to help carry weight, they would make you carry more weight until the exoskeleton groaned in protest.

>Build a truck
>"Now we can carry more weight and just leave it in the truck!"
>Never end up using the truck because it breaks all the time

>>34640976
>they would make you carry more weight until the exoskeleton groaned in protest.
this is my greatest fear in life

>>34630946
Actually they got killed and wounded a lot more than most troops today.

Given that while the combat WW2 vets faced was brutal, the weaponry they face was a lot less potent in terms of sheer firepower (non withstanding chemical weapons, explosive ammunition, etc).

But they were never targeted by precision guided missiles as an example.

>>34641524
they also were concentrated in trenches

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>>34635670

>>34630702
loudkek.webm

>>34630821
>>34633008
>>34634390
>>34634448
>>34634590
>>34638195
>>34638715
>>34638742
>>34640620
>>34641772

http://gizmodo.com/5624936/there-is-such-thing-as-dry-water

>>34635046
The fuck? I'm >>34631770
What is reading comprehension?
I never advocated ditching plates, that was this guy >>34630912. You know, the guy I'm replying to. Hence the green text.

I also never said you lose your pension for not wearing plates. I was making a joke about it being stupid (which it is, because the stats on permanent and fatal injuries are far better with their use) and IF we're going to let them be stupid we at least shouldn't pay for their stupidity.

Calm your fucking farm dude.

>>34639750
Sup nigger?

>>34634590
>sparks from gunpowder
>carrying hydrogen
>BOOM

>>34637835
So would a bunch of dudes hindered by their equipment. I get what you're saying though, but seems like mechanized warfare would and should have alleviated the load off the individual soldier. Even if vehicles get knocked out they can have the bare necessities and should be able to forage or otherwise live off land until resupply or rest of their people's push up to them.

>>34630990
>14kg shields
>Wielded one hand
No such thing anon. If they where that heavy, they would have to be deployed with pages/assistants to move them, used for 2-3 minutes, and then completely break formation and leave them behind on first big movement.

Even if you have a shield that can be carried with the entire forearm + shoulder mount in form of straps, you don't want to go over 4-5kg, because that is far too massive for something that has to work with one hand.

>>34641534
Trenches is just a sign that the enemy is capable of shooting back, with somewhat equal long term firepower.
A meter of dirt will always be superior to houses made out of thin clay or shitty concrete.

>>34630913
But who's going to repair the repairbots that fix the battery-carrier bots when they break down?

>>34640953
for pogs

>>34631624
my unit did. How else are you supposed to dig a hasty fighting position with no engineer assets or in an area heavy machinery can't get to?

>>34633411
my asshole PSG made us pack our WINTER gear in addition to everything else. When I was weighed before getting on the bird, I weighed 340lbs with my chute& reserve on. Naked I weighed 155lbs. I hope that fucker died of cancer.

>>34636031
yes Trudeau, if you fight your enemy, they win.

Wouldn't it be possible for light infantry to carry way less shit and have a couple guys bringing it up the rear with supplies that aren't 100% essential? Or you'd think they could come up with something better

>>34647345
If its not 100% essential, light infantry should not be carrying it.

>>34634590
Hydrogen bound to helium, helium, the one element that is completely nonreactive?

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>>34647461
you can force helium to react if you heat it to about a kaghsdgillion degrees no sweat

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>>34637985
Get rid of iron sights!? Fucking HERETIC!

>>34647386

>Uniform/clothing
>footwear
>Warming layers/sleeping gear dependent on environment
>Water and/or ability to procure water

Those are the bare essentials to simply survive and not go down as a heat casualty or succumb to hypothermia

>Primary firearm
>spare ammunition for primary firearm
>load carrier of some kind to hold spare ammunition

Bare minimum necessary to conduct any offensive combat movement.

>Optic for primary
>flashlight for primary
>laser for primary
>Night observation device (mono or binocular)
>bump helmet or skull crusher to mount NODs
>radio w/at least 2 spare batteries
>basic cleaning kit for primary (cleaning rods/ bore snake, AP brush, CLP) preferably stored within primaries grip or stock
>map/GRG+compass
>Ifak
>2-6 grenades/pyro (can be any combination of fragmentation grenade, smoke, pop up, incendiary or diversionary device)
>Multi-tool
>headlamp

100% essentials for any first-world combatant wanting to be a threat on any battlefield

>Armor (soft, soft+hard or standalone plates)
>ballistic rated helmet
>secondary firearm
>flashlight for secondary
>ammunition for secondary firearm (2-4 spare mags)
>fixed blade knife
>eye protection
>hearing protection
>gloves
>food (amount dependent upon time spent away from primary food supply; a single power bar up to 6 MREs)

100% US military "you're not allowed outside the wire without the aforementioned unless you're at least a SOF level 1 operator" gear list in conjunction with all of the previously green texted gear list

>Large first aid kit
>Spare batteries for the squads manpacked 117/119
>spare ammo for the belt fed
>poleless litter/stretcher
>flex cuffs
>binocular/s
>laser range finder/s
>rockets
>C4/prepared breaching charges
>bolt cutters/sledge hammer/halligen
>collapsible ladder
>550 cord/rope
>spare batteries for every single electronic device carried
>IR/VIS strobes (MS2000's or contemporary models ie S&S/hellstar etc.)

Mission dependent necessities spreadloaded

>>34647810
>>secondary firearm
>100% US military "you're not allowed outside the wire without the aforementioned unless you're at least a SOF level 1 operator" gear list
I don't think most US soldiers carry a secondary firearm. Also questionable whether they're forced to carry a fixed blade. Maybe certain branches force them to carry a bayonet but I've heard stories from commandos about being told from command that their tacticool fixed blades are too scary.

>>34648361
*/k/ommandos

Robots are going to carry shit

>>34630990
>30 pounds strapped to your arm
>solid bronze shield

you are fucking retarded

>>34630636
>average pack weight for soldieres has been about a 100 pounds since ancient greece.
But they used every bit of those 100 pounds. Not anymore.

>>34628909

It would have to be fucking no holds barred ruthlessness. As in that body armor is often ditched including helmets. Amount of water is severely decreased despite the threats pf dehydration. Things like light sleeping bags, thermal tops or windshirts are left behind. No carrying extra boots, let alone extra uniforms. Food is severely reduced to one stripped MRE a day. Ammo and pyro is reduced to the bare minimum and many crew served platforms have to be left behind.

And when you do this shit... you can catch the enemy but it's not guaranteed you will completely outgun him. And you will get hurt in the process of doing so. And risk is something that American general and field grade officers are rather adverse to.

>>34630990
>a hoplite's shield was 30 pounds of solid bronze.
Wow. No.
An Aspis was a little more than 7kg or about 15lbs, and wasn't made of solid bronze. It was predominantly wood, with a bronze sheet rim and sometimes front face also, with a leather fastening and facing on the reverse.

A quick fucking google would have told you that.

>>34628909
every time you make something lighter and more compact for the soldier you free up space for more equipment.

>>34630636
Greek soldiers literally brought slaves and servants to carry their shit on the march. hypaspists had the name for a reason. This is the reason ambushes were so deadly. You'd be falling on men who had, at most, their spears, and at worst, daggers, without armor or shields.

>>34631624
LIES LIES

>30min halt and you're digging in fag

>>34630990
A:
Wrong
b:
He didn't carry it until it was time to advance to contact. At all.

>>34630567
This was my dream that quickly became my nightmare as a child.

>>34630692
>Exoskeletons
Shopping carts are cheaper, so personal combat cargo warrior chariots?

>>34630567
>>34628970
>>34628976
on the bright side, they both get you high

>>34631475
Radios and NVG's have got to be two of the biggest force multipliers for infantry combat in existence right now.

You are out of your goddamn mind.

>>34633411
1000 rounds of ammo would be you entire "30 lbs pack"

Have you ever fucking carried 1000 rounds before? Holy shit.

>>34651634
but dude this guerilla pseudo-military faction was able to barely subsist against an army that had a logistics chain half the circumference of the globe. Obviously the reason is that NVGs and radios aren't necessary (despite the taliban using their own radios/cellphones for comms all the time)

>>34628944
Ayy Devil you best have all the gear on that gear list! Never know when 1stSgt is going to want to do a gear inspection!

Sadly this happened to me in 29....Fucking Steal Knight....

>>34633377
Wana know how I know your a POG

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>>34651663
because no groundpounder has ever said "I carried the M240 and loved it"

>>34635735
Underrated post

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>>34651665
Being the Machinegunner is like being the nigger in the Plt. Everyone loves you and fucks you over but expects the most from you.

>>34630702
I laughed loudly in the legal office waiting room and there was an e8 just staring at me.

>>34651613
Carlos!

>>34651648
That's because they are way more highly motivated force. They are religious fanatics who are willing to subsist on meagre rations, use inferior weapons, and gladly give their lives up. They aren't commandos racking up kills and adding ears to necklaces. They have huge casualty ratios and keep going because when you lose a jihadist, there are 5 Muhammads, just as fanatic, waiting to take his place. If our soldiers were as motivated as them, they wouldn't be bitching about humping 100 lbs. on 4chan.

>>34651666
El Diablo

>>34630702
actually, you could just fill bags with hidrogen and with a special kit you could burn it into water

>>34631475
>>34651648
Without Night Vision Googles, laser pointers and Radios, Taliban would be able to do a lot more.

Because if they can't attack properly during day, NVG's mean they can't attack during night. And NVG's again mean you can attack during morning or dusk, during the darker parts of twilight, or shot stuff at night.
Just like decently Polarized sunglasses means you aren't buttfucked if the enemy attack you from the angle of the sun.

>>34635877
Aaaaa

>>34628909
A single battery system and accessory power bus on weapons and helmets/comms. Mules. Yes animals. It is what they are for. There is no reason for troops to carry that while mules exist.

>>34630636
>every time we make something lighter, or delete it. they just find something else to make us carry.
By that logic, increasing the soldier's strength only means he'll be given heavier loads.
On the bright side, you'll get to bring heavier weapons.

>>34633377
You call people pussies and faggots, yet here you are posting some retarded weebshit in a Napoleonic era French Grenadier costume.

>>34646824
fixer droids obviously, who in turn will have to be repaired by tuneupatrons

Is it really 100 pounds?

>>34635670
>I'm carrying 9x 30rd mags
lol

>>34653477
Only on long foot patrol missions instead of mechanized missions or routine patrols. More often it's in the ~70-80lb area.

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>>34630663

1. Delete inclement weather garments. One set of light clothing.
2. Cut armor weight by half (it's coming, within five years).
3. Cut uniform weight by two thirds, no more boots, only trail running sneakers. 4. Each infantryman one rifle of max nine pounds all accessories included, loaded plus six spare mags. No sidearm.
5. No sleeping gear except maybe something like mesh netting for insects. 6. All food is dehydrated meat or fat (jerky and pemmican), max three pounds. 7. Water cut by half, troops move from water supply to water supply like in the old days, or just trail a resupply vehicle. 8. Medkit and toolkit are fifteen pounds max (batteries included).

Before you dispute the effectiveness of such a soldier, what weight could we get down to with these parameters?

>>34652191

It's because they hide within non combatants and can choose when and when not to be a legal target for nato troops to engage. They can toss their rifle in a river and instantly become civilians. If they carried identifiable equipment all the time they'd all be dead. Thanks for posting

>>34651582 after watching the balloon boy vid by internet historian, I can understand

>>34630834
I don't think it would necessarily be seen as a human rights violation to create a class of jobs that are just responsible for transporting gear behind the military. Sounds reasonable to me.

>>34653587
I wouldn't change shoes to sneakers, but rather redesign boots to be more like sneakers. Have aluminum skeleton framing with high ankle support and a steel toe, but with foam and goretex mesh wrapping. No leather.

>>34630834
>We would never do this because "muh equal rights".
We already do this. Soldiers don't carry their own guns all the way from America to Iraq.

>>34637614
>im carrying plastic, plastic, some more plastic and plastic. What are they carrying?

Metal.

An oversimplification, yes, but guns n ammo are heavy. Try backpacking with a gun, you /out/ist.

>>34630945
>And trusting a private to NOT fuck around with an ATV outside of the special forces is just asking for him to evil kineval across a valley and kill himself.

kek

Yeeaahh

>>34630629
Came here to post this.

If you find a way to make stuff lighter and/or easier to carry, your CoC will just make you carry more useless shit.

>>34630716
Never going to happen.
The Army's motto is literally "work harder, not smarter".

>>34637985
good detailed post, anon

>>34628909
Has it occurred to you that the military doesn't figure out what you need and make it as light as it can be, but they figure out what you can carry and give you as much gear as possible. They also don't care about fucking your spine because the chance of another type of injury or death doing more damage is so high?

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>>34628909
Why was this guy able to do with fifty pounds while we have to carry twice as much? Hell, with modern materials, we could cut that weight down even further!

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>>34630834
Actually, we can do #3 with robots.

>>34630834
>That is to say, let them loot and pillage what they need where they end up. Need shelter? You don't need a tent, just take that guys house, kill him if he doesn't cooperate. Need food? Don't ruck it in, take it. And going on and on

Yeah the one thing the US needs is to make more enemies around the world.

>>34658391
Union soldiers had the benefit of easier logistics trails, which meant they didn't have to carry nearly as much shit as they were operating on-continent. It's the same deal with the National Guard.

>>34628909
Not have a day patrol filled with a 3 night kit.

>>34634562
Russians didn't go far enough.

>>34663099
le no true scotsman

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>>34628909
If I was the general I'd give everyone just a shovel, water, and some ammo and tell them to dig in. Also I'd replace military leadership with eve online FC's and let them focus fire ISIS to death with tanks and drones.

>>34651643
He meant like if soldiers could carry more weight, then they should also carry more ammunition.

>>34640591
>>34640629
>>34658415
All these need are high energy density batteries, and solar charging capability. That or well trained donkeys.

>>34633411
>1000 rounds per soldier and cut the rest of the crap.

Like others in this thread have said, "the rest of the crap" is what actually wins fights, not just ammo. Soldier sustainment and enablers win fights, not quantity of lead in the air for the very short time that troops are in contact.

Also, I've assistant gunned in an m240 team with 1200 rounds, spare barrel, and the tripod because our ammo bitch fell out right before a tic. Fuuuuucckkk that.