What is the best modern submachine gun and how does the B&T

MP5 in 10mm.

>>34618077
The B&T is pretty high up there. I'd say the MP7 and P90 are competitors. MP5 is a meme gun.

Scorpion evo?

>>34618113
The average MP5 has seen more brains than a neurosurgeon.

what about the Kriss vector?

>>34618077
Whichever one is secretly chambered in an intermediate rifle caliber.

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obrez

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Quick dump from my SMG folder. Russia still likes using SMGs so they have several that could compete. The SR-2M is gas op and remarkably light, just like the MP7. Then there's also the blowback PP2000 and AEK-919K which are nice and tiny

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and there's also the Uzi Pro I guess ... it's more of a hackjob reincarnation of the Micro Uzi.

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it's like a brick with rails

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>>34618077
Subguns are, at least true select fire, fill very niche roles. The mp5 used to be the gold standard, but is largely antiquated by today's standards. Still neat though.

I would like to think that subguns are still used by police and swat, but maybe everyone is just using SBR's these days. Maybe they think why spend money on different guns when I could just have a 10" barrel upper chambered in a rifle round? Not that you'd realize any benefit from a rifle round having short barrels, but maybe it's logistics.

Honestly what's even the point of subguns anymore? I mean just stick a stock on a G19 or something and you've got the same performance in an extremely small package.

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>>34618483

>>34618611
Yea, add a stock and a giggle switch and you've got a cheap and simple subgun that weighs like 30 ounces or something.

>>34618169
He's a good white rapper

>>34618093
According to wikimemea "Problems with the MP5/10 and MP5/40 led to their discontinuation, although Heckler & Koch continues to provide support and spare parts." The source provided on that quote (which I haven't personally read) is on page 23 of:

Thompson, Leroy (20 July 2014). The MP5 Submachine Gun. Osprey Publishing. ISBN 978-1-78200-917-7

No personal experience, just what I read. As a sidenote, if I recall correctly the MP-5/10 was the primary weapon in the book version of Rainbow Six by Tom Clancy.

>>34618945
"problems"
AKA HK wanted to sell a cheaper, higher profit margin gun that wouldn't last forever, so they could sell more. Enter the UMP.

>>34618945
>>"problems"

the problem was bitch ass niggas who couldn't handle the recoil, which is hilarious on a subgun.

The MP5/10 is only possibly rivaled by the P90 for modern uses. Plate carriers and body Armour are too prevalent to trust 9mm to do enough anymore.

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>>34618135
Only when it's operators aren't using 550 cord garrotes

>>34619132
>MP5 rivaled for use by P90X

So not at all?

Anybody who used the MP5 for spooky scary stuff switched to the P90X and in some cases tried the MP7 because of their AP capabilities. Apparently both were then immediately dropped for 10.5 ARs because AP 556 performed far better ballistically and as it was put, with both the P90 and MP7, Special Forces were forced to adopt the doctrine of hosing down targets to get then to drop fast enough obviously entailing the need to mag dump at every engagement.

This is why no one really uses smgs, while they have a niche in police ops, and super quiet in and outs, where silence is almost a utter necessarily in close quarters, ARs have become so prolific and have been refined down to a science where issues with carbine length barrels no longer exist.

>>34618077

I used to own a Steyr SPP. Flung brass halfway around the goddamned world but very accurate and fun.

>>34618742

A SOT I know has one of these he's tried selling to LEO's, except it has a stock adapter with an AR-15 type stock attached and has an extended threaded barrel instead of a comp for a suppressor. With a giggle switch. And a Glock 20 to boot.

>>34621021
Ss109 out of 12-14 inch barrels are pretty anemic themselves. Operators still do use smgs. Vector being one of them.

>>34621343
>Uses M855
>But will instead use a Kriss Vector?

Bruh. If you're snowflake forces, I doubt you're going to be using anything below 77 grain in a 10-12 inch barrel. It suppresses best, doesn't entirely rely on fragmenting for it's ballistics profile, and hits hard.

And last I checked, nobody's adopted the Vector for military use. It's a cool gun but again, with any pistol cartridge, you're hosing down your targets to get them to drop immediately.

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>>34618113
>MP5 is a meme gun
>MP7 and P90 aren't

>>34621304
Wonder if any departments have adopted glock pdws.

>>34618483
They generally don't quite have the ergonomics of SMGs, and the rate of fire is higher than desired. I imagine they'd be a lot more popular for home use if it wasn't for the NFA though

>>34618742
Don't to that, I've had a busy day already

t.ATF

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>tfw I'm almost positive I'm the only person on /k/ to own B&T TP9
feelsgoodman

>>34621304
That would be great if they could figure out how to make that little toggle switch work in 3rb

>>34619132
>the problem was bitch ass niggas who couldn't handle the recoil, which is hilarious on a subgun.
More like the HK roller lock system wasn't designed to handle rounds that had wildly different pressures like the 10mm. The FBI stopped using them because switching between super and subsonic ammunition would require changing the rollers in the bolt or they would beat themselves to pieces or fail to cycle properly.
That's why the MP5/10 failed. The .40 faced similar issues, though not nearly as bad as the 10mm version.

>>34623558
This nigga knows whats up. The roller lock system has a smaller "window" where it will function correctly and there is a huge difference between hot 10mm and the weak stuff.

>>34621021
>P90X
They switched from a gun to a workout program?

>>34623526
I want one, but only if I can make it an SBR with the original foregrip. I've never confirmed if that was possible, so I never bought one. What do you think?

>>34618120
Breaks constantly and weighs more than all other direct-blowback 9mm SMG's, so...no. It's not good. Just "good for the price".

>>34618282
>not that you'd realize any benefit from a rifle round having short barrels
Just how retarded are you?

>>34624037
Roller DELAY.
Roller locked is a different system and does not have this shortcoming.

>>34624167
>breaks constantly
Says who?

>>34621556
Most SOF are actually using expanding softpoints now. Either off-the-shelf "LE" rounds like the Federal and Speer softpoint loads using Speer Deepcurl bullets or Mk 262 Mod 2 bullets using the 77gr Barnes Tac-TX expanding monolithic copper hollowpoint.

And when they need AP capability, M995 from an 8" barrel *still* offers more than twice the armor penetration of the hottest 4.6x30 or 5.7x28 AP ammo from a 10" barrel.

>>34624214
Says everybody I've talked to who bought one and multiple forums, including the CZ forums.

Rear trunnion is plastic and breaks at around the 2000 round mark (even on the "pistol" configured ones that don't actually have anything attached to the trunnion), cocking handle breaks off with some regularity, and the lower receiver housing splits in front of the magwell on occasion.

>>34624075
Does your SMG even lift?

>>34624075
lol Android's auto correct will turn P90 into P90X.

>>34618611
Too bad it would be ruined due to overheating after burst firing as few as ~60 rounds over the span of a minute or two. SMGs are supposed to be used as bullet hoses and a pistol design just can't handle that kind of thermal load.

>>34623434
What was the point of modifying the uzi frame?

>>34623526
Why did you pay an extra $700 for cheese graters and a bendy-straw stock?

>>34624443
To demo their new ammo without people thinking "oh that old gun"

>>34623526
Nah, there's a frenchie in the Canada threads with one. And his has the proper foregrip.

>>34623056
They ought to add rate of fire reducers to G18's.

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>>34625744
It would be a lot nicer if possible. I think tons of guns would be nicer with rate reducers.

That reminds me that the Stetchkin has a rate reducer, and it's right in this category. It's a little big/heavy for a pistol but it's smaller than any SMG.

https://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=2161

>SAR: Did you see any other handguns in use with Soviet troops?

>Andrei: Yes, the Stetchkin - as a matter of fact I carried one, which was extremely cool. I got one issued to me as a sniper, which wasn’t the usual thing, I don’t think any VDV (the Russian acronym for paratroopers) units would have one. But I whined and I had a great relationship with the Major who was from my hometown and he was in charge of armaments. When I saw a crate of them in the armory I complained and whined and to shut me up he assigned me one as a personal weapon. But I had to surrender it as soon as I surrendered my SVD.

>SAR: What were you issued with the Stetchkin?

>Andrei: I had three magazines with it, I had the leather magazine pouch, and I had the leather strap that goes over your shoulder to carry the holster/stock. Which I never used really, because I had it in the other side of my RD pack, and the spare magazines were in there with it. The magazine pouch I didn’t carry as I had enough stuff on my belt. Plus I had the cleaning rod.

>SAR: What was your opinion of the effectiveness of the Stetchkin?

>Andrei: Well you know that I never had to use it in anger, so to speak. But I can tell you with absolute certainty, because I’ve done it, that thing will knock down silhouette targets at 200-250 meters with the stock attached. On full-auto it was absolutely controllable with not much kick and it was possible to even get single shots with some practice with it set on full-auto. I deployed it a few times when we went into houses or to inspect some bombed out ruins. When I did, I just pulled it out and carried it like a pistol without the stock attached.

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Yay subgun thread. Even though mine are a bit neutered i still love them. Smg has fallen away to sbr stuff now that body armor is more common but they are fun guns

>>34618113
If you want to get technical MP7 and P90 are both PDW's not SMG's

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>>34618077
>be Steyr
>design great PDW
>be 15 years to early
>can't sell shit
>sell patents to B&T
>they put railz and a "stock" on it
>WE WUZ TACTICOOL N SHIEEET
pic semi related
a plastic TEC 9

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>>34618255

>>34627283
I mean...i still want one

>>34618077
Sig MPX

>>34627610
800 overpriced

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>>34623526
That's cute, senpai.

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I've got an MP9.Compared it to my Vector, Uzi, MP5 and several other sub guns the MP9 blows them away.

Indescribable accuracy out of something this small, not to mention that the rotating barrel locking system makes it easy to control under full auto conditions. The size and weight it offers with the level of performance capable is top notch.

Only gripe is carbon buildup in barrel sleeve.

>>34630045
I'm highly jealous.

>>34623434

thats not an smg thats an lmg

>>34624243
I'd disagree that the trunnion goes anywhere nearly as early as 2k rounds. I'm sitting somewhere around 3500 with steel-cased shit and mine hasn't broken.

>>34630045
>>34630122
Noice

Isn't there a kriss vector chambered for 10mm? Or not in full auto?