Idiots with poor trigger discipline

>>34607038
(OP)

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When did TD become a thing?

>>34607076
Jeff Cooper started that meme in the 60s.

>>34607076
recently because as time has gone on people have become too stupid to know if their guns are loaded or not, or at least not to pull the trigger until ready

>>34607246
I figured it had to do with the transition to semiauto.

>>34607038
You know that's Teddy fucking Roosevelt, right?

>>34608275
That's the point.

>>34608275
Wow triggered much?

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Look at this clown.

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>>34608904

>>34607038
You think teddy gives a fuck about TD? He knows when to hold and when to pull.

>>34607038
"cops"

>>34607038
Was this photo taken before or after he apprehended 3 guys innawoods and brought them back with him a few days to turn into the police

>>34607038
TD wasn't a thing until the '70s. It didn't become widespread in shooting enthusiast communities until the '80s.

>>34608608
I guess you could say he doesn't have any...Triggered Discipline

>>34608643
>Californian with bad TD

As expected.

>>34607038
Teddy Roosevelt was not a great marksman. He was just a rich kid who liked to dress up and play cowboy.

>>34612713
Sounds like his marksmanship was alright enough when he liberated Cuba from the Spanish empire.

>>34613443
>rifle is shouldered

>>34612757

Funny you should mention that. Roosevelt and his Rough Riders got all the glory from San Juan Hill. Because they were the white americans there. Most of the heavy combat was done by the all-black Buffalo Soldiers, but I guess telling the true story WOULD have sold fewer newspapers at the time.

"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_San_Juan_Hill
This fight for the heights was the bloodiest and most famous battle of the war. It was also the location of the greatest victory for the Rough Riders, as claimed by the press and its new commander, Theodore Roosevelt, who was to eventually become first vice-president and then president, and who was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor in 2001 for his actions in Cuba.[10] The American press at the time overlooked the fact that the Buffalo Soldiers of the 10th Cavalry and 24th Infantry Regiments had actually done much of the heaviest fighting.[11]"

But woo hoo for the white guys!

>>34613573
>But woo hoo for the white guys!
Lmao, fucking gas yourself.

>>34613573
Sounds like you have a problem with white guys, even when they work with other guys to accomplish something.
Are you just racist or do you just like ranting about American "imperialism" despite America pushing out all the imperials.

>>34613573
>WE WUZ SOULJAS N SHIIEEET

Kek

>>34613594
>>34613598

I am so white, I can morse to other counties just by taking my tee on and off. Which is unrelated to my initial comment. San Juan Hill was fought by white guys, black guys and arguably slightly olive Spanish guys. Roosevelt certainly led his unit from the horseback and I respect him. But I consider it hilarious that his forces were the only ones getting that respect and memory. Just for one thing, the Spanish soldiers fought extremely well. For every Spanish life given the Americans paid with five of their own, and surrender was not even considered an option.

But what are we left with? Romantics.

>>34612595
Underrated

>>34613657
I don't know why you quoted the gas yourself guy that wasn't me.

You know in battles nobody remembers who did what the leaders always get the credit not the grunts. I'm honestly practically at a loss for words you have an issue for this like do you live in a cultural vaccuum you see this sort of thing everywhere right down to all the media you consume like tv, video games, movies, the lead characters in a fight or whatever are just going beserk and massacring everything, everyone else is just cannon fodder unless it's the reinforcement cavalry there to save the day and they do one synchronized thing that slaughters all the enemies and everyone lives happily ever after except all the dead bad guys laying around in piles and everyone covered in gore and surrounded by corpses starts happily cheering and celebrating their murder rampage and gorefest like a sociopath

>>34613736

We must be watching different movies. The Big Red One, The Thin Red Line, Apocalypse Now, Stalingrad, Enemy At The Gates, 300, Das Boot, Das Untergang, Hamburger Hill, One Bridge Too Far, all show me soldiers fighting and dying with little choice while the leaders fuck up. Any movie where the soldiers are cheering and ignoring their dead at the end is just crappily made. Or cherrypicked to show nice things and nice ends, which is even worse.

I don't mind that some of the more interesting leaders are remembered by name. Units, companies and divisions are really just numbers even if the specific unit has done something great. But in the end, battles are always won by a weary grunt and his buddies who managed to stay alive a little longer than their enemies. Not the guys in the big hats and clean uniforms.

>>34613573
WUZ

>>34607076
That looks like an airsoft gun honestly

>>34613827

Yeah well, chief weapons engineer and demigod Mikhail Kalashnikov probably wasn't going to pose with a sample of his gun that had been dragged across Afghanistan on a rope behind a camel.

>>34613736
>>34613810
>Enemy At The Gates, 300
These are like perfect examples of what I'm talking about. It's not like an average grunt it's the leaders and really famous ones that get the legends built up about them.like what was the battle in england I think with Harold one of the grunts jumped onto a bridge and held everyone off until someone went under it and stabbed him in the dick. Nobody remembers that guys name he's just the guy that put up a pretty bad ass fight and then got stabbed in the dick, everyone remembers the leaders names involved in it all though. You know when you watch a movie you're not going to see some extra going beserk and winning in a fight and hacking people down like the main characters do like Lord of the Rings you got the dwarf and elf casually prancing around talking about how they killed hundreds of orcs it's like why are there even extras around aside to make it look bigger? It's just the same kind of thing when it comes to history and stuff.

>>34613892

They are movies and not historically accurate or documentaries. But let's take them one by one.

Enemy at the gates
- happens during the arguably most crucial battle of WW2
- one german officer and sniper expert
- one russian sniper expert
The battle is real enough. The sniper duel is also somewhat close to reality, in that the - famous and real - russian sniper really did a duel over days with a german sniper expert. The real name of the german was never known and he was probably neither a sniper school leader nor a high officer. On the other hand Zaitsev went on to lead a sniper school of his own.
I love this movie. The battles of Stalingrad has not been well documented in most movies and here we get a few tastes. Pity about the romantic drama but you can't have everything. And proving my point here is that Zaitsev definitely is a real grunt, famous for his own actions in war. The books does him
more justice but without the movie, who would know his name?

>>34613892

300
- Based on the Battle of Thermopylae, 480 BC, when Persia comes to stomp the Spartans of Greece into a bloody pulp. Only a token force of 300 Spartans stand in the way of 300.000 Persians
- King Xerxes leads the Persians
- King Leonidas leads the Spartans, from their front rank.

Again, a historical battle with a very well known outcome. We don't really know the names of anyone but the kings anyway, but the basic story does prove that the individual soldier's names are not important. They all died. But they stood up to a superior enemy and the message they conveyed by that, gained a large victory in the longer term. Without knowing any of them personally I like to think that they would rather be remembered as Spartans than 'Georgio with the lazy eye' or similar.

I think that the big thing to remember is not the movie sterotypes of near invulnerable and unhittable characters, but the nameless people who did the real things the movies are reminding us of. I love real world heroes. Their names are however less important than the examples they make.

>>34613936
lol the entire plot of the movie was focusing on how they were building his reputation up on purpose and elevating him to mythical status which typically doesn't happen to grunts. I'm not saying it's wrong or anything that sort of thing is what tends to happen to leaders not your average grunt. I mean the opening sequence with all the dead grunts around makes sense. The part where he's hiding in a pile of dead grunts it's like they're just corpses, like a prop. What they did while living is rather irrelevant they're just a set piece for that small particular part of the story.

>>34614002
Yeah the funny thing is nobody in the modern world would actually call spartans hero's. The unamed guys that cut down that one guy then his dad went beserk and killed everyone should of been considered the heros except they're the villain bad guy grunts that finally manage to over come some monsterous slaver murder machine that just hacked through a dozen of them and then they disappear the rest of the film or die or something I can't really remember but they were just pointless grunts that set the example that killing is cool unless you get killed or something I'm not sure what the moral of the story is suppose to be in that one.

>>34614012

Zaitsev's story is real, including the being built up toward a hero - if not exactly like the movie tells. The russians were losing badly with appalling losses and every hero they could find was invaluable. But everyone loves a war hero; USA, England, France, Germany have all been cherishing their heroes since newspapers were born.

Frankly I am not sure I get your point here. No, we did not see how those particular men were wasted. But in a battle with about six million men on each side and street fighting where each side were sending in barely if at all trained stop gap troops to push back the penetration attempts, I would not expect to learn a lot of names.

However, I am still hoping for the day when I get to watch a good movie about Pavlovs House. Same battle, but offering so much more chance to learn the names of all the individuals involved.

>>34614061
I'm not saying it wasn't trying to follow peoples recollection of real events. I'm just saying in real events the grunts are considered extremely unimportant.
Well places like the USA actually have good cause to have heros. You wouldn't expect to know names in a large scale conflict like that but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't know since most of them probably got shoved into the fight straight from a gulag. After the war with Germany, and it got a wall. Which side did people want to live on, The Russian side, or the American side? Russian grunts would just go on to shove people in gulags and fill the worlds terrorists hands with AK47's while everyone cries America has got to be behind terrorists existing. Fucking sickening.

>>34614027

Spartans were the warrior caste of their kingdom, They were bred like thugs from young age to get lean and mean, then hammered into machinery of war when they were old enough to hold their arms properly. That made them very good at what they were doing. But not heroes. They were the strong arm of their faction, not more or less.

The event is historical. Take from it what you want. But I think if the 300 had ran away or surrendered, the whole thing would not have been remembered. However, by standing and dying in the face of superior pressure they may have set an example that is also a modern day ideal as it was heroic in its day. "You shall not pass" were as strong words in Kobane and they were in Stalingrad.

American are probably looking up to that ideal still. As on Wake Island. Now there's a battle I dearly hope to see on the screen one day.

>>34614122

Grunts ARE considered unimportant by the leadership, irrespective of country or political system. Just like the civilians. They get herded, trained, made useful until they get too old, then get disposed of with varying levels of discretion. On the other hand the leadership get the dubious pleasure of being hated as much as they deserve.

I was a grunt. I did my period, performed my duties reasonably well, and then went back to being a civilian. Nobody remembers me as a soldier, and why should they?

You are skipping a few beats there. Most people don't really get to choose which country they live in. For one thing, even if they want to leave - who would want to take them in instead? A refugee's life and choices are pretty miserable.

As for the whole terrorism thing, I am afraid I could spend all day getting into which rebels were/are backed by what powers and it's nasty reading anyway.

>>34614152
>. That made them very good at what they were doing.
Not really they had very little influence in greece, arguably the living situation probably would of improved with new leadership if they lost. To even come close to making the spartans look like good guys they had to make the Persians comically evil with cartoonish deformities and monstrous features to even make the spartans somewhat relateable to the viewers.
>>34614152
>"You shall not pass" were as strong words in Kobane and they were in Stalingrad.
>American are probably looking up to that ideal still.
This we'll defend sounds much better. I really don't have much interest in the dramatization of it all.
>>34614223
>Grunts ARE considered unimportant by the leadership, irrespective of country or political system.
No they're not. In the USA they chose somewhat for a dangerous job, leadership doesn't want dead grunts. Most people don't like dead troops. Saying they don't care is ridiculous if they didn't care you wouldn't hear about people griping about how much military spending tax dollars go to.
As a matter of fact, people do get to choose what country they live in. For instance if they join the US military they get made a US citizen. It's a pretty fair exchange for citizenship it worked for Rome for a very very long time.

>>34614304
>As a matter of fact, people do get to choose what country they live in. For instance if they join the US military they get made a US citizen. It's a pretty fair exchange for citizenship it worked for Rome for a very very long time.
Also France does it. Most places will take skilled workers, if you're rich you can pretty much move anywhere you want to live.

>>34612595
Kek

>>34614304

"You and your 500.000 buddies are important to us" is of course true. The system must be upheld. How well the individual is taken care of within that system is something else, especially when something bad happens. I recall when soldiers in Iraq had their families fund armor for their Humvees. And have you seen the state of the Veterans Administration recently? Wounded warriors, absolutely damn right.

You can gain US citizenship by enlisting in the US army. This is true. It is however not open for everybody. And the French Foreign Legion still accepts a few volunteers every year with citizenship as bait. Also you can certainly get into a lot of countries with at least a work visa if you have sufficiently high education. The barrier for that is lifting pretty high though. How's your bachelor degrees? The reason it's getting so bad is of course the refugee streams. The national systems can still cope, but you can hear a lot of creaking.

>>34613602
Beat me to it

>>34607076
Around the time people started caring about safety

I doubt Russians do TD even today because they place no value on human life and taking an ND through the head is probably a blessing if you live there.

>>34614479

That's rubbish in so many ways. Modern Russian forces, especially the enlisted part, are hardly inferior to any western counterpart. Do you actually believe that it's still 1921 over there?

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>>34614433
You know I remember when some of those humvee stories were popping up, it's not like they were ignoring it and just like well fuck these guys. The response is rolling out a new vehicle

>The Joint Light Tactical Vehicle (JLTV) is a United States military (specifically U.S. Army, USSOCOM, and U.S. Marine Corps) program to part-replace the Humvee with a family of more survivable vehicles with greater payload. The JLTV program was approved in 2006 to begin early studies.
Joint Light Tactical Vehicle - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Light_Tactical_Vehicle

It's easy to be cynical about it since people volunteered for a dangerous job.

I'm a bit conflicted about the bachelor degrees when I set out to get one it was impossible it was a pipe dream, me telling people I was going to college would of been like walking into a gas station buying a lotto ticket and telling them my numbers going to win. So I'm thrilled that it's not impossible and making progress on it, it's really been difficult taking more time and effort than I ever really imagined that I've worked myself up and stressed over it so much that for my own well being I'm developing a clinical detachment from thinking about it too much and just focusing my efforts into trying to make it happen and just trying to make progress at it long term.
Of course most national systems can't cope with refugees societies wants lower classes to begin with while thinking it's not as big of a problem as it is basically just stunting it's own growth on purpose. If someone starts out there and ends up that way, why would anyone expect to just walk in from somewhere else and do better than someone adapted to the environment from the outset?

>>34614530
At the start of the war on terror, the humvees were stripped down, now you'll probably not see any that are not armored. It's not like they can just make a CAD drawing and shit out new vehicles from a 3d printer overnight. This is honestly pretty rapid change.

>>34614586
>This is honestly pretty rapid change.

Shit, the US MIC is honestly pretty god damn good at shitting out needed shit very fast. The original bunker buster is a great example.

Hell, look at the stryker program. A need was found in 99', a contract was awarded in 00. 5 short years later they were rolling off the line, and 5 years after that production stopped because the US army had five fucking thousand of the fuckers.

>>34614624
I suppose there are a lot of factors that effect it all. Just looking at the technological changes in the U.S. since 2001 it's almost like a new era. Really the contrast between the countries it was in conflict with and seeing how the two have been developing it'd just be insane for anyone not to expect more refugees from that area. Makes me wonder why they don't try settling in Russia or China rather than first world countries when people trash talk about how terrible the first world is.

>>34613827
>>34613871
That actually is an airsoft gun

>>34614507
>Modern Russian forces, especially the enlisted part, are hardly inferior to any western counterpart.
>just started issuing socks in 2013
Sure thing vatnik.

>>34608643
Who is the QT in the beige?

>>34613466
and?
did not post this to suggest that this great man was a idiot, but rather that "trigger discipline" is blown way out of proportion by autist who are "triggered" by this shit.

>>34614586

The original humvees had some good things going for it. But they weren't armored because the top brass didn't see the need for it since surely the enemy would surrender at first sight of an actual American - plus the humvees weren't supposed to be in the front line anyway. Then it turned out that the real front line includes every local settlement inside the occupied country where the enemy has civilians, and armor was suddenly a big thing. Then it turned out that the occupied guys also has degrees in chemistry and physics in addition to military training, and road bombs were added to the list of issues. Sure the US started cranking out armor and armored vehicles, but the fact remains that most of the US dead in Iraq are from IEDs and small scale ambushes.

The humvee armor thing is stupid though. If there was one thing the US should have learned from Mogadishu it is the importance of armor on every last vehicle in harms way.