War with Iran

>>34586240
The one wildcard I see here is Hezbollah. Hezbollah in Lebanon could trigger another war with Israel, which would be catastrophic for both Israelis and the Lebanese considering how well-armed Hezbollah is.

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>>34586240
I'm not so optimistic. Even if there is widespread discontent with the Iranian gov't, I can't imagine an outright invasion receiving a whole lot of Iranian support. It would basically affirm what the religious hardliners tout on a daily basis. The regular Iranian forces wouldn't be overly hard to overcome, however its highly likely the IRGC would wage guerrilla warfare for some time. Also, Iran is a much bigger country than Iraq so it would take a lot of manpower to secure the country. For reference, I will dump what pics I have of the Iranian military. These pics are probably 6-10 years old at this point so I'm not sure how modernized their military is right now.

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>>34586293
Iran still pumps out G3s to my knowledge, the Artesh (regular Iranian military) and the Pasdaran (IRGC) use a mix of G3s, AKs, and Chinese M16 copies. There's also the KH-2002, however I haven't seen many pics of it actually in service. If it is, its almost certainly with the IRGC.

>>34586293
So is it more likely that, if we do take any military action against Iran, it would just be something along the lines of a prolonged air campaign, with ground forces waging proxy wars in places like Yemen to defend our allies in the Gulf?

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>>34586240
Ground war? Bad. Reasons are obvious.

>>34586240

There's nothing like a foreign ground invasion to unite a formerly divided population....especially considering that's exactly what happened to Iran in the 1980'a.

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>>34586325
I used to be a lot better at identifying Iranian units by patches/camo/rank insignia, but its been a while since I've taken a look at my Iran gallery so I'm guessing most of the time. There was an Iranian who used to post on /k/ and he did a great job explaining it, but I haven't seen him post in a long time.
>>34586343
Kinda. We haven't gotten involved on the ground in Yemen, and I doubt we really ever will. If it moves to open conflict with Iran I think we'd be much more preoccupied with using our air power to hit targets in Iran than to worry about Houthis in Yemen. However, I do think that Iran's various proxies would be able to do some damage.

>>34586325
Judging from our current Pentagon/Foggy Bottom strategy situation, how would we fare against the iRGC? They're experts of insurgency, but Mattis played a big role doing COIN in Iraq and with McMaster (and by extension Petraeus) close by, I think we'd be better prepared than in Iraq. Looking at Iraq, there was huge debate between Condi/Colin Powell at State, who were never really that in favor of the war to begin with, Rumsfeld at the Pentagon, who wanted a soft boots on the ground approach that left the generals with little to work with, and the generals, who wanted more boots on the ground (or at least Petraeus). So with that cohesiveness factored in, would we see a better outcome?

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>>34586358
Forgot about that, it would be a rather hard slog for ground forces in the event we decided to do boots on the ground.
>>34586373
IRGC soldiers with Chinese Norinco AR knockoffs.

Considering the cost of Iraq and Afghanistan I say we last atleast a year before we're catastrophically in debt

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>>34586380
>How would we fare against the IRGC
Depends on how far they push the guerrilla warfare angle. They do have plenty of conventional warfare units and simultaneously have plenty of regional militia units (Basij).
>I think we'd be better prepared
Possibly, depends on who's in charge and who had experience in Iraq. In this case however, the various insurgent groups would be basically united sharing a common command structure instead of the warring Iraqi factions who were taking pot shots at each other as much as they were shooting at our troops. Hopefully we wouldn't go for a long term occupation of Iran, I believe that would be a very bad decision.
>>34586389
Basij militia training.

>>34586240
> Iranians I've met and spoken to (who visit Iran often), most Iranians don't agree with the fanatical Ayatollahs running the government.

lol american iranian expats don't like the current government, no shit but wasn't this the same premise that removing Saddam the Iraqi people would love their liberators. Enjoy that insurgency, every jihadi in the middle east would jump at the opportunity to kill some americans.

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>>34586419
>Every Jihadi in the middle east
Would step up their efforts, but probably not care much for Iran. You forget how much Shiites and Sunnis hate the everloving shit out of each other. We would definitely get a lot of hate from the various Shiite groups, no doubt about that.
>>34586418
Iranian manufactured Norinco CQ, the S'5.56

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>>34586430
More IRGC with the S'5.56.

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>>34586442

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>>34586448

>>34586418
That muzzle brake.

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>>34586466
While I appreciate additions to my Iran-Iraq war folder, I think it would be better to post more modern stuff.
>>34586458
More IRGC.

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Iranian T-72S tanks. Basically export T-72Bs with a bit less ERA. The Iranians operate a few hundred of these alongside older Shah-era armor that's been upgraded to various degrees. I've heard they're planning on developing an indigenous T-72 variant with Russian help.

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Iranian upgraded M60, ERA and I believe a new FCS.

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Upgraded Type 59s. 105 M68, new FCS, ERA, stabilizers, and night-fighting capabilities. Not a bad way to get more service out of an old tank.

>>34586240
Do not worry, whenever Israel/Jews wills it: american medias and the government will demonize Iran, and they will send their boys cannon fodder, as they have always done. You don't deserve more than that anyway, being such pieces of shit. The scum of the earth...
I'm a white west european, before you extrapolate.

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>>34586543
>The whiny europoor strikes again
Was waiting for that.
>Will demonize Iran
We've already been doing that for a long time at this point, don't see how it could get any worse.
>>34586539
Iranian BMP2

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>>34586576
Older M113.

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>>34586585
Iranian helicopters, most of them from the Shah-era.

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>>34586607

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>>34586613

>>34586576
And you indulgently accept your state of being a brainwashed slave/warmonger for the kikes. How disgusting...

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>>34586621

>>34586623
Could give less of a fuck for the Yids, you think I'm happy with their lobbying power here in the States? Also, and this may be a bit of a radical idea for you, its possible to not like Jews and Arabs (Persians in this case) at the same time.
>>34586621

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>>34586642
I believe this is an IRGC exercise.

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>>34586652
Basij exercise.

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>>34586665
Bit more recent, IRGC in Tehran after the attack earlier this year.

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>>34586703
Another large-scale Basij exercise.

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Iranian (not sure if Regular Army or IRGC) Special Forces, apparently trying to pull off the budget operator look.

>>34586623

>Doesnt hide that he's a europoor.

Kill yourself.

Didn't know Iran was so damn mountainous. Seems like it'd be hell to fight an insurgency in.

>>34586652
>>34586642
>>34586621
>>34586613
>>34586607
>>34586585
>>34586576
>>34586539
>>34586515
>>34586500
>>34586488
exactly none of this is useful in a conflict with the US. Its so out of date as to be better on day one to light this stuff on fire, rather than try to use it against the US military.

>>34586293
>>34586359
it all depends on who starts it, and how to local populace receives it. For example if Obama had invaded during the green revolution in support of the revolutionaries, the country would have been split and the hardliners completely fucked. Hence, control of the local media will be critical to reducing the guerilla component.

>>34586358
hahaha, remember this cuts both ways, and one side has a massive heliborne troop advantage and its not Iran. Hence, Iran is fucked.

Also one thing you all should keep in mind there are literally us troops on the eastern and western borders, and the southern border is ripe for an amphibious invasion. Defending this three pronged attack is foolhardy at best, and against a more numerous more technologically advanced better equipped enemy, becomes completely untenable. The Mullahs only hope is to play the Taliban game, of leave and launch sporadic raids into the country, until eventually the US tires of killing them and leaves; hopefully regaining power a couple of decades later.

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>>34586846
Was just showing the pics in case any /k/ommandos weren't aware of what the Iranian military looked like, I did not imply that it was great shit or that it would be able to actually go toe to toe with us if we decided to pull off Iraq War 2 Electric Boogaloo. Other than that I agree with what you say, though Iran does have a beefier air defense network than what it used to, nothing we can't knock out with a prolonged SEAD campaign though.

>>34586380
They are "experts" at insurgency in other countries, not their own. The differences are pretty major. First where do they get their weapons? Currently they themselves are the ones providing their proxies with arms. If Iran is invaded where does it get the new weapons from?

Second, their insurgency techniques are heavily based upon the human wave technique which leads to massive losses in their proxies, necessitating Iran shipping in forces from other countries (see Iraqi and Afghani militias in syria) The Syrian and afghan militias during the Iraq war etc. Now if Iran itself is invaded how can Iran continue to bring in foreign forces to the fight?

Third, they are the major source of funding for most Shia proxy forces. If Iran is invaded where do the new funds come from? Saudi arabia and the other gulf states sure as shit aint gonna donate to an Iranian insurgency.

>>34586261
Where do you get this from? Hezzbollah has taken heavy losses both in terms of manpower and material in Syria, and been unable to significantly replenish what has been lost. If Iran, the source of hezzbollahs arms gets invaded, there is litterally no one to arm the group, and any war they fight would be completely one sided in days. And we all know that when israel wants to fight, Hezzbollah losing is only a matter of time.

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The IRGC seem rather fond of baseball caps for some reason.

>>34587142
>put down the US for coming up on 40 years
>Use the hat from a US sport
Beautiful

>>34586261
Hezbollah can start some shit but they can't finish it. There's nothing they can do to actually threaten Israel in a meaningful way. They can piss them off alot, but that's about it. All they would accomplish is getting Israel enough sympathy to get a big fat check from Uncle Sam.

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>>34587234
I mean, they already rip off our camo.

>>34586240
>there has been a strong conflict between the Persians and Islam that hasn't been present in the Gulf States, where Islam is a much stronger force

ugh

they overthrew their shah themselves, and it was not done by a small group or something

they have a literally theocracy there unlike most of the muslim countries that are either monarchies or democracies of some kind

and finally, if you claim them to be so potentially anti-islamic and pro-western why would usa, uk etc fight them

I wish we'd go to war with iran already, fuck hearts and minds. just level the place, when they become a threat again, re-level. call it operation alexander.

>>34587328
Because they're controlled by a group of fanatics who are about as extremist as Wahhabis, except they have a state-level bureaucracy to administer. The Wahhabis in Saudi Arabia may be nuts, but they have the House of Saud managing them to make sure Saudi Arabia doesn't get toppled tomorrow.

>>34587258
So their claims of having a missile arsenal bigger than all NATO members except the US combined are basically just outdated and such? http://www.weeklystandard.com/missiles-everywhere/article/2002770

>>34587258
>. There's nothing they can do to actually threaten Israel in a meaningful way.

They can rain down 20,000 PROPER missiles into Israeli urban areas with nothing the Kikes can do to stop it.

And we're not talking about the flying pipe bombs that Gazans fire off from their ghettos once in a while.

why do we care for israel, those kikes nowadays are literally nazi and racists, israel has a worse apartheid than south africa ever had

they are lucky they managed to become american allies or they could get an international "police action" themselves ages ago

>>34586240
Won't work without total war, occupation and Reichspolizei style draconic punishment for sabotage and guerilla activity.
If the population is starved, bombed and hopeless, they'll dance to every propaganda piece that is played as long as the lyrics say: Food, shelter, security and future.
Being the west and the beacon of humanism *cough*, we can't root out guerillas effectively.

When it comes to pure military confrontation, Iran will be fucked. All talk no quality. Doesn't matter how zealous and proud they are. Our doctrines, training, tactics and equipment are far beyond a force basically being on the level WW2 cannon fodder equipped with ~cold war era equipment.

>>34587491
I mean at that point the US is invading Lebanon too. Taking Russia and China into the situation, Russia wouldn't support that level of action. Russia is Israel's largest supplier of oil and Avigdor Lieberman and Vladimir Putin have a pretty good relationship.

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>>34587536
>why do we care for israel,


Because they own most of your senators.

That's a byproduct of free market democracy. And Jews are exceptional at running schemes and hoarding money.

You think Nazi Germany woke up one day and stated hating Jews?

There were very good reasons the Germans decided to remove Jews from economic influence.

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>>34587440
>Because they're controlled by a group of fanatics who are about as extremist as Wahhabis

No they're not.

And the whole revolution was more about restoring sovereignty than it was about Islamic zeal, after the Shah had prostituted the resources of Iran for his own enrichment and of those in his nearest circle.

Israel doesn't like Iran because they're potent and capable, unlike the retarded Arabs.

>>34587640
>There were very good reasons the Germans decided to remove Jews from economic influence.
Then they lost a war and tanker their economy, only to have it righted after the US Army occupied their country for 40 years.

>>34587672
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelver
>what are Twelver Shias
>why are they the majority in Iran
>why is it the Iranian state religion
>why do the Ayatollah and the IRGC enforce this
Shia are /ourguys/ right? https://www.opendoorsusa.org/christian-persecution/world-watch-list/iran/
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/12/10/weekinreview/the-world-what-s-iran-doing-in-bosnia-anyway.html
They persecute Christians and funded Islamists in Bosnia to an even higher extent than the Saudis.

>>34587674

Hitler miscalculated how much influence global Jewry had over the United States.

>>34587491
Most of them don't have the range to actually do shit to most of Israel, and the first thing Israel does when shit starts with them is start evacuating their northernmost populations.

>>34587640
>why do we like Israel
>They test our weapons tech
>They prevented two unstable regimes (Iraq, Syria) from obtaining nukes
>They're the frontier of Western civilization in the Middle East
>They're an ally in the War on Terror and provide critical intelligence cooperation
>We share the same enemies
>They produce critical components of our civilian tech sector, ranging from computer chips to pharmaceuticals
If Jews had half as much influence as you say they have, the JCPOA wouldn't have happened, America would not have been pushing Israel into negotiations with the Palestinians for as long as they have been, and we certainly would not have abstained from the settlements vote at the UN.
>inb4 Jews are flooding the West with Muslims
Flooding your countries with people who hate them doesn't sound like a good idea. And considering the fact that Israel likes having good allies like the US and European nations, turning those nations into Islamist shitholes isn't really in its interest either you sperg.
>inb4 Yinon Plan
The Yinon Plan wanted a more aggressive Israeli foreign policy because of the twin spectres of communism and the Third World, which they believed were going to be the decline of the West.
>inb4 USS Liberty
Friendly fire happens, doesn't change the fact they're our ally
>inb4 Jonathan Pollard
We spied on the Germans, Pollard spied on the US. Allies spy on each other.
Oh yes, I'm sure a country like Iran that persecutes Christians, shoots anti-corruption protestors in the streets, and funds jihadists is a much better ally.

>>34587712
i thought bosnians were american allies

>>34587748
>Hitler miscalculated
You could have stopped there
>influence global Jewry had over the United States.
lol
Just because they got curbstomped doesn't mean it was the Jews, anon. The Germans just made terrible decisions at literally every turn.

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>>34587712
>>34587788

Wow, look at the well rehearsed talking points!

They came prepared, even solid references to their own literature, like the (((New York Times)))!

I'm convinced.

The USS Liberty was an honest accident and we should spill American blood for the Holy Land!

>>34587788
>shoots anti-corruption protestors in the streets
something like kent state shootings?

also why are we supposed to care for christians in iran, i am an agnostic myself, i don't give a shit of some shitskin christians

>>34587816
>Kent State
>Inexperienced National Guard troops open fire due to incompetence
>Green Revolution
>Ansar-e-Hezbollah death squads and experienced paramilitary Basij under the leadership of the IRGC raid dormitories and shoot protestors with the expressed sanction of Ahmadinejad's government, who rigged the election
whataboutism isn't an argument anon

>>34587789
>i thought bosnians were american allies
They are, some Arabs and jihadist from the ME/NA and Central Asia thought they could go set up a caliphate in the middle of Europe because they saw once on TV that Bosnians were 1/3 Muslim. They showed up in the North thinking they could gain traction with the Bosniaks in their fight with the Serbs.
Turns out (badly for the jihadis) that Bosnians are still European and have European values despite their Islamic faith background (much like most of the Western World, culturally religious, but secular). Within a year most of the guys that traveled there were dead or one the run (turns out fighting as guerillas in the nation where modern guerilla fighting was conceived is a bad idea, who knew?)

>>34587788
Don't forget they buy a shit ton of US weapons and most of their defense industry rests on them playing nice with the US

>>34587815
>The USS Liberty was an honest accident.
Honest question: What makes the Liberty incident suspicious? Isn't it possible that people fuck up in war? Was Jessica Lynch's convoy being ambushed suspicious or was it merely because of poor communication? Not everything is a conspiracy, anon.

>>34587815
We did nothing about the Saudi money that still flowed towards the opposition – as indeed it had towards the Bosnians in the 1990s, which is why that beautiful country is now littered with the ugliest Saudi-style mosque architecture the Balkans have ever witnessed.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_fighters_in_the_Bosnian_War#Shia_involvement
>'Aside from the Sunni and Wahabi mujahideen, Shia Iran was one of the very first Muslim countries to provide support for besieged Bosniaks (predominantly Sunni Muslim, that ascribe to the Hanafi school of thought). Iran supplied two-thirds of the total received in weapons and ammunition by the Bosnian Muslim forces during the 1992-95 war. From May, 1994 to January, 1996, Iran transported over 5,000 tons of weapons and military equipment to Bosnia.[9] Iran not only sent much needed supplies but also fighters. Lebanese Shia Hezbollah had also its fighters in the Bosnian war.[10] Robert Baer, a CIA agent stationed in Sarajevo during the war, later claimed that “In Sarajevo, the Bosnian Muslim government is a client of the Iranians...If it’s a choice between the CIA and the Iranians, they’ll take the Iranians any day.” By war’s end, public opinion polls showed some eighty-six percent of the Bosnian Muslim population expressed a positive attitude toward Iran.[11] All Shia foreign advisors and fighters withdrew from Bosnia at the end of conflict."
>http://serbianna.com/blogs/savich/archives/56
>http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/article/iran-balkans-history-and-forecast

>>34587672
>about restoring sovereignty
Yes and know. There was a lot of secular support for the Revolution and many socialist/communist groups had widespread support during this time. Then Khomeini and his thugs took control of all aspects of the revolution and started to institute sharia law. I've spoken to an Iranian expat who was part of a socialist group during the revolution and she spoke at length about how the original intent was for a democratic and free Iran where women didn't have to wear veils and there was freedom of speech and press. Then Khomeini came and she had to leave after most of her group were jailed/killed.

>>34586240
Iran-Iraq war, little buddy
Look it up

>>34587748
>>34587748
>global Jewry
Jews are superior because of the conditions they lived in and their behavior/responses to it. Ashkenazi Jews had more children the more wealthy they were and the Jewish culture emphasized education heavily. Since they were forced into banking, they naturally dominated it.
>inb4 Jew supremacist
This behavior is also exhibited by Mormons in the United States.
http://www.economist.com/node/21554173
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/05/22/mormons-more-likely-to-marry-have-more-children-than-other-u-s-religious-groups/

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>>34586240
>how would a ground war in Iran play out?
We shut down their meager AF and suppress their air defense, achieve air superiority in the first 2 weeks or so.
We invade from the south, in the Fars/Kerman region. There is very little population there, and not much to bog us down. We head northwest to Tehran, skirting the Zagros mountain chain.
That's where the fight gets rough. Lots of civilians, and they'll throw everything they have to defend the city. We will win, but it's going to take time at a minimum.
The Artesh (Iranian military) is quite weak. Although large, they are poorly trained, poorly equipped, and poorly led. Their vehicles are at low readiness, lacking in spare parts. Although it seems they have many vehicles, in truth much of them are rusting hulks long since cannibalized. They lack substantial mechanization, their infantry transported by truck at higher echelons, their artillery emplaced rather than self-propelled. Their command chain is split between the IRGC, meaning the C2 channels are even more bloated than usual.

The IRGC intends to strike at rear supply areas with guerillas equipped with small arms. It may be effective at slowing us down, but it's not going to stop us. It's all they can do to present themselves as Switzerland in WW2, much like North Korea acts today: too difficult to bother with, but not impenetrable.

There's less sectarian division to play on than in Iraq. Of course, the Kurds are looking for any reason to break away, but I'm not sure how we would leverage that. And it's important to not look for too many pressure points there: no reason to give Iranians evidence to believe we're there to subjugate them to minorities. There are some Sunnis in the south that we can count on I suppose.

>>34588052
What are the odds of Russia intervening? If we suspend NATO exercises for a year would that be enough to keep them off?

>>34588152
>What are the odds of Russia intervening?
It depends on how fast we move, what the context is, etc.
The Russians have a much closer client in Syria, for example. And it was only after Obama gave them every possible, conceivable signal (in actions rather than words) we weren't interested in toppling Assad that Russia filled that vacuum.
Russia isn't even as close with Iran, and isn't very trusting. China, however, will throw diplomatic sand. China has developing close economic links with Iran these past years, rivaling those of Russia.
If, say, the Iranians openly developed a bomb, and the US shows determination to go in, Russia isn't going to lift a finger militarily. Politically, it's a whole different ballgame.
I would also note that taking the south is the long way around. Obviously, if Turkey allowed us to use their territory, the fight ends much sooner. No long drawn out, potentially more vulnerable supply chain. We just move in from the northwest to begin with and and squish them quickly. And the Kurds would be ecstatic to help (although the Turks might then not be).
I've also said nothing about occupation. It would be a shitshow. But the actual area where people live is relatively small compared to the breadth of the country. We don't need to contribute substantial troops to cover every inch. We might be able to get the UN to contribute as well, if we can get Russia and China on board. But then, we'd really need a moral case to back ourselves up, like actual, verifiable nukes.

>>34588052
Also, we'd lose the Bush and half of the attendant escorts.

>>34587816
So... taking a single incident and applying it as SOP for America is a legitimate argument? Huh, I don't remember the past few years of protests at education centers or on streets ending in blood and mass casualties/fatalities.

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>>34587955
>What makes the Liberty incident suspicious?

Well for one, the recordings of the transmissions between ground controllers and the strike aircraft pilot were intercepted by US SIGINT and have been around for decades.

This isn't even controversial, what is controversial is LBJs role in the cover up.

What are you, stupid or something?

>>34586240
Iran mines the gulf, everyone loses.

Estimates put Iranian naval mines as high 20,000. A mix of everything from M1908 contact mines to knockoff CAPTOR and everything in between. The Strait of Hormuz is only 21 miles at its narrowest point. With the Strait closed the global economy gets fucked and the logistics of mounting an offensive get even harder.

>>34586240
Donnie just signed off on the Iranian nuclear deal, so it looks like the US is cool with them

>>34588451
Post them then.

>>34588451
>What are you, stupid or something?
No, but I'm thinking you might be.

>Well for one, the recordings of the transmissions between ground controllers and the strike aircraft pilot were intercepted by US SIGINT and have been around for decades.

That's it? That's you evidence that it's suspicious? That a nation that at the time only had ground based interception control, had pilots and people on the ground controlling interceptions talking to each other. Yes, anon, this is a major conspiracy. You just blew this fucking thing wide open, call the media.

>This isn't even controversial, what is controversial is LBJs role in the cover up.
>Allied nations try to cover up friendly fire and the implications of ineptness regarding both militaries

BREAKING
THE
CONDITIONING

>>34588380
There's not much water to control. There's no concerns relating to collateral when a mass of small boats approaches the Fifth Fleet & Friends. Unlike the tendentious dance when speedboats harass our destroyers today, it would be a turkey shoot.

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>>34587788

>They test our weapons tech

You mean reverse engineer, use to build their own industry and then sell counterfeit copies and sell trade secrets to enemies of America?

>They prevented two unstable regimes (Iraq, Syria) from obtaining nukes

You mean they used the US armed forces to neutralize two of their regional rivals and are currently using the US to dismantle the Syrian state and the last target - Iran, is already being primed for regime change by the US vassals.

>They're the frontier of Western civilization in the Middle East

Literally have nothing in common with Western civilization, they are culturally a blend of Arab and Russian cultures and values.

>They're an ally in the War on Terror

An (((ally))) that has never contributed any forces or air assets to the actual fight, in fact, they're cozy with Jihadists at their own door steps and provide air support for Al Qaeda - people who committed 9-11.

>We share the same enemies

No, AIPAC ensures that America fights Zionist enemies.

Jesus you're terrible at this.

Can I talk to your supervisor instead?

>>34588532
>That's it? That's you evidence that it's suspicious? That a nation that at the time only had ground based interception control, had pilots and people on the ground controlling interceptions talking to each other. Yes, anon, this is a major conspiracy. You just blew this fucking thing wide open, call the media.

This is entirely incoherent.

Are you disputing that the US is in possession of the recordings?

If Hebrew is your first language, just type in your native language and I can use Google Translate.

>>34588506
LBJ ensured that they don't make it to the public square.

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>>34586846
Don't forget about this bad boy abrams killer

>>34588471
>Iran mines the gulf, everyone loses.
If they want to start destroying commercial traffic, it's a good way to create the Deep Concern which affords the US more capital to rest their invasion case on.

>>34588549
>use to build their own industry
Their industry is mere peanuts, it can't even produce limited quantities FOR them, there's a reason why their weapon systems contain to many European and American components (which they buy in bulk)

>is already being primed for regime change by the US vassals.
Not really, Donny just today said the nuke deal will stay in place, hardly being primed

>Literally have nothing in common with Western civilization
Unitary parliamentary constitutional republic

>An (((ally))) that has never contributed any forces or air assets to the actual fight, in fact, they're cozy with Jihadists at their own door steps and provide air support for Al Qaeda - people who committed 9-11.
Cause nothing would unite the Arabs faster than Israeli intervention, then they're really fucked.

>Jesus you're terrible at this.
Ditto

>Can I talk to your supervisor instead?
May i please speak to your parents, anon?

>>34588584
>This is entirely incoherent.
Then you don't speak or read English very well then. Let me try to dumb it down for you even more though: You think it's weird that pilots in the air and personnel on the ground speaking to each other is weird and in itself warrants suspicious on Israel and the USS Liberty incident. Keep in mind that Israeli at the time only had a ground based interception ability and not airborne controlling.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground-controlled_interception

That's you, that's how you sound right now.

>Are you disputing that the US is in possession of the recordings?
No, I'm sure you're correct.

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>>34588634
>Their industry is mere peanuts, it can't even produce limited quantities FOR them, there's a reason why their weapon systems contain to many European and American components (which they buy in bulk)

Which doesn't address the sabotage, intellectual theft and trade in sensitive technology with US rivals.

>Not really, Donny just today said the nuke deal will stay in place, hardly being primed

Well why do you think (((they))) have been running the Russian collusion conspiracy for 6 months now? They want to paralyze the White House into a state of inaction.

>Unitary parliamentary constitutional republic

With no separation of Church and state... Yeah, no.

It's more similar to Iran and their Mullahs than anything in the West.

>Cause nothing would unite the Arabs faster than Israeli intervention, then they're really fucked.

That's just a pretty lame excuse. So, Arabs would flock to the defense of ISIS if Israel actually contributed a single combat sortie against the group?

Fuck off.

There's literally nothing that Israel does as an ally that would make them a better ally than Azerbaijan or Moldova..

>>34588695

Maybe you should learn how to deploy grammar and formulate a coherent accusation.

I do not know what the fuck you're implying.

>>34586240
>Assuming that neither China nor Russia seizes this as an opportunity to start World War 3, how would a ground war in Iran play out?


A protracted ground war that would basically play out like an even longer version of the 2003 Iraqi invasion, but with heavier casualties. I'd imagine that the religious high council that runs the country along with the IRGC would flee to the North of the country which is rather mountainous like Afghanistan and continue a guerilla campaign until god knows when.

>>34588811
The important thing is breaking the continuity of the government.
You get rid of the Supreme Leader, Guardian Council, Assembly of Experts etc.
Not to say a headless opposition isn't dangerous, but it takes a lot of the cohesion out of it, and it's easier to substitute a replacement.

>Which doesn't address the sabotage, intellectual theft and trade in sensitive technology with US rivals.
Yes, any they suffered heavily for it. There is a reason most nations are flying latest gen fighters with 120Cs and AESA radars and Israel is still flying 16As with a domestically made BVR missile.
>Well why do you think (((they))) have been running the Russian collusion conspiracy for 6 months now? They want to paralyze the White House into a state of inaction.
Maybe he got into the WH and realized "Hey this plan is pretty good. I shouldn't fuck with it."

>With no separation of Church and state... Yeah, no.
England doesn't have separation of Church and state and they do fine (all of the Commonwealth to be precise). Not to mention Russia, which has gotten increasingly close to Eastern Orthodox
To say nothing of Chechnya, too.

>That's just a pretty lame excuse.
But it is what would happen, it's what Saddam wanted and tried to do with the Scud attacks in '91.
>So, Arabs would flock to the defense of ISIS if Israel actually contributed a single combat sortie against the group?
It is quite possible, as they hate Israel more than they hate ISIS. Only threats from the US going full retard would prevent a shooting war.


>>34588730
>I do not know what the fuck you're implying.
That you're an idiot, anon. That you're an idiot.

>Maybe you should learn how to deploy grammar and formulate a coherent accusation.
OK, I have a low enough ego to the point that I'm open to proofreading. How should I have formulated it instead? Makes corrections right now and I'll get back to you with a better response so people can understand it better.
Remember anon: Teamwork makes the dream work.

>>34588860
True, but it is much harder since the country has a duality where it is half-democratic and the other half run by imams. Iraq was easier because the main fixation of the government was Saddam Hussein and his cult of personality, once Saddam was captured, the Baathist elements either reorganized as jihadists or surrendered. The Ayatollah and the council of imams tend to disperse their power more uniformly amongst each other, and likewise they also don't carry a laundry list of atrocities like Saddam had committed to garner the bad blood amongst the population.

>>34588870
>>Well why do you think (((they))) have been running the Russian collusion conspiracy for 6 months now? They want to paralyze the White House into a state of inaction.
To add to this anon:

Maybe all the shit you hear about the collusion is true anon? What if Trump is just a huge idiot who could not find his ass with both hands and a map. I mean, Just this past few days he tweeted out contradictory statements regarding what to do regarding the American Healthcare Act.

>>34588704
>no separation of church and state
rabbinical courts control civil marriage and divorce cases anon...a good portion of Israel is atheist and Tel Aviv is indistinguishable from a western metropolitan city...most Israelis hate the ultra-Orthodox Haredim who refuse to serve in the IDF and live off of welfare...they don't hang gays from cranes in Israel, they let them have pride parades in Tel Aviv...there are more female f-16 pilots in Israel than there are female car drivers in Saudi Arabia.

>>34588948
>>34588870

>>Well why do you think (((they))) have been running the Russian collusion conspiracy for 6 months now? They want to paralyze the White House into a state of inaction.
Add to this anon, pt 2:

You're probably sitting there thinking about how the collusion stories are fabricated bullshit despite new evidence coming out literally every day (thanks to Donny's own retarded son no less) while you are CONVINCED that the liberty attack was some sort of Jewish plot to do...something? Or maybe not something...or something.
If people are going to entertain your idea of how the Liberty attack went and do their best do refute it using logic, don't sit their and refuse to entertain their ideas regarding collisions and Russian and stuff, it's academically dishonest and callow.

>>34588471
I am absolutely 100% certain that the United States has multiple contingency plans to deal with such a scenario, especially we had to deal with counter mine operations in the 80s

>>34588935
>The Ayatollah and the council of imams tend to disperse their power more uniformly amongst each other
Yes, the power isn't so bottled into one man. It's several institutions that need to be removed.

It's worth noting that there is a repressed, but steady chorus of voices in Iranian society looking for a way out. The Reform Movement, in the spirit of Khatami, is much more open than the current approach allowed under Khamenei and the political clerics. So there's an in, and assuming we pull the SL from a ditch, throw him in prison and hang him, the Overton Window can shift in our favor, with some element of favor from at least a part of Iranian society. I'm not saying it's easy, but not all elements, particularly the more educated, of Iranian society are happy under the current system. If it "fails" and doesn't exist to return to, I doubt they'd suddenly desire a return to full theocracy.

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>>34588870
>Yes, any they suffered heavily for it. There is a reason most nations are flying latest gen fighters with 120Cs and AESA radars and Israel is still flying 16As with a domestically made BVR missile.

You have no evidence for that. It could simply be a result of financial limitations rather than some punitive measure.

>Maybe he got into the WH and realized "Hey this plan is pretty good. I shouldn't fuck with it."

No.

>It is quite possible, as they hate Israel more than they hate ISIS. Only threats from the US going full retard would prevent a shooting war.


That's not even remotely tenable.

>That you're an idiot, anon. That you're an idiot.

Ah, so you're the same shill. Good to know.

>OK, I have a low enough ego to the point that I'm open to proofreading. How should I have formulated it instead?

I simply DO NOT UNDERSTAND what you're saying.

In plain terms, why do you think the conversation between an Israeli pilot and his leaders into deliberately attacking a known US vessel in any way helps your position?

Or were you just totally unaware of the nature of the dialog?

>>34588704
>There's literally nothing that Israel does as an ally that would make them a better ally than Azerbaijan or Moldova..
Off the top of my head, they supply us with a fair amount of intelligence and people we don't like will not stop wasting their time on them

>>34589021
>CONVINCED that the liberty attack was some sort of Jewish plot to do...something?

So you don't read books and you never read the transcripts of the recordings?

WHY Israel would order such an action is up for debate, and opens room for speculation, but that it was a deliberate attack is beyond questioning. It's no longer 1967, the toothpaste is out of the tube.

>>34589122

>supply us with a fair amount of intelligence

There's no evidence for that. Sounds more like an AIPAC fabrication. You've been so brainwashed that it's something that springs into your vacuous dome.

>>34589021
>>34588948

Samefag.

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Why would we expect the Iranian people to support our invasion? If Russia invaded us in 2008 to remove Obama from power, how many of us would be siding with the Russians instead of waging an insurgency against them?

>>34589363
Difference between Obama and a group of Islamic theocrats ruling over a well-educated (by Middle Eastern standards) populace whose national identity has literally defied orthodox Islamic teachings for most of its history

>>34589363
Typically, invaders don't hand out census cards asking for opinion polls.

>>34589116
>You have no evidence for that.
Look up the variants of the 16 and15 the Israelis have, then their BVR missiles. That should be all the evidence you need.
>result of financial limitations
They get some money from the US, which they spend on military hardware, but for some reason have not procured new radars or missiles despite them having a sore lagging in these areas.
>No.
Yes, he got into the WH and realized he was in way over his head, and let the deal go through because he literally has no plan if were to fall through. If he did, why did he just ok it?
>That's not even remotely tenable.
To bad it is anon, these a reason Saddam fired Scud after Scud into Israel and the US placed it's best AA units in place to shoot them down. Saddam's entire strategy regarding the Arab states in the Coalition hinged on that.
>I simply DO NOT UNDERSTAND what you're saying.
I'm saying that at the time when this happened, only a few countries had the ability to use AEW aircraft to control their panes in the sky, so it makes sense that the Israeli pilots were talking to someone on the ground to get instructions, be it for interceptions or landing orders.
>deliberately attacking a known US vessel in any way helps your position?
I think this is where we disagree and where the communication issues have happened: I don't think it was a deliberate attack, it was a fuckup of the highest magnitude, they happen in war. It might have been known to staff officers or intel people, but getting that info to the people making the tactical decisions takes time and given the level of tech back then, allows for many mistakes to be made along the way.

>So you don't read books and you never read the transcripts of the recordings?
I do, and no I haven't.
>but that it was a deliberate attack is beyond questioning.
Post proof then.


>Or were you just totally unaware of the nature of the dialog?
Mind sharing what was said then? Do you have the tapes?

>>34589256
Yes, I wrote both of them. Hence me putting:
>To add to this anon:
>Add to this anon, pt 2:

Learn to read.

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>>34589391
You're still invading their country, destroying their infrastructure, and killing their people. You think nationalism has nothing to do with this?

Again, I'll ask you, if Russian troops landed in Boston, leveled a couple of towns, and killed a bunch of civilians on their way to oust Obama from the White House, how many of us will be cheering them on? How many of us will be joining the insurgency against them?

>>34589454
Impossible to compare relationship you have to US govt. and an Iranian's relationship to theirs.
For some Iranians, they may feel more protective, others, less so, depending on education, religiosity, persecution, wealth, etc.

>>34589454
I see your point, but honestly how can anyone see America as the bad guys? We're never the bad guys. When we come knocking on your door with guns blazing, we're coming as a force for good. Anyone who refuses to see this deserves to die.

>>34588539
Your vaunted radars can't even detect a 40 thousand ton battering ram on a collision course, how are they supposed to pick up the AShM-toting boghammer swarm before they get close?

>>34589523
That's assuming the boghammers can even get close. Also, they carry unguided rockets, not AShMs

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>>34589413
>Look up the variants of the 16 and15 the Israelis have, then their BVR missiles. That should be all the evidence you need.

I don't see a convincing argument. Israel owns enough senators to throw aside anything as small as a radar purchase.

>To bad it is anon

That's just your opinion. A bad one BTW. You are welcome to have it.

>I'm saying that at the time when this happened, only a few countries had the ability to use AEW aircraft to control their panes in the sky, so it makes sense that the Israeli pilots were talking to someone on the ground to get instructions, be it for interceptions or landing orders.

So what exactly are you claiming?

Let's make this easy: Israel attacked an American vessel deliberately, and these comms were captured by US SIGINT.

So what exactly are you arguing?

>I think this is where we disagree and where the communication issues have happened: I don't think it was a deliberate attack

Hmm, interesting, have you read the transcripts?

Here, is one of the more notable parts, verbatim, maybe I'm missing something?

>Israeli pilot to IDF war room: This is an American ship. Do you still want us to attack?

>IDF war room to Israeli pilot: Yes, follow orders.

>Israeli pilot to IDF war room: But sir, it’s an American ship - I can see the flag!

>IDF war room to Israeli pilot: Never mind; hit it.

What did they mean by this?

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>>34589219
What the fuck? Intelligence cooperation between the United States and Israel is pretty well known. Not to mention their intelligence services are quite competent, even by western standards

>>34589503
You think this is about the US vs the Iranian government?

Whose houses did we bomb to shit in Iraq, then? Whose fathers and brothers did we kill in the 2003 invasion? Whose land did we forcibly dig FOBs onto? When a foreign power enters your country by force and shoots up your people, you're not gonna think "hmm this is a fight between a foreigner and my government", you're gonna think "wtf are these foreign devils doing in my house, killing my wife, eating my cookies?" Bad government or not, they're uninvited foreigners in your homeland. As an American, will you cheer this on? Or will you be a defiant gun behind every blade of grass?

>>34589391

Iran is fairly pluralistic, and their revolution was fueled by anti-Western sentiment, outrage over exploitation and corruption of the ruling pro-Western vassal.

Why would they somehow welcome to have their nation ravaged by war and humiliated by Israel?

Only Arabs are that dumb.

>>34589523
We're relying on the 5th Fleet, and not the 7th ;)

>>34589584
>What the fuck? Intelligence cooperation between the United States and Israel is pretty well known

Known by who? The (((NYT)))? (((CNN)))?

Israel is a known security liability, and dual passport holders who are close to US government are known to steal sensitive information.

That's just a shitty contrived talking point you have regurgitated there.

>>34586240
>most Iranians don't agree with the fanatical Ayatollahs running the government
They wouldn't agree with Americans running it either. Stay out of Iran.

>>34588860

yeah or you end up with ceaseless chaos where nobody is in charge and everybody is shooting, like Iraq

>>34589629
If Israel controls NYT and CNN, why is the MSM so anti-Israel and why were the more Palestinian flags than American flags at the 2016 DNC? Why would the Iran Deal get passed?

>>34589577
>throw aside anything as small as a radar purchase.
Hardly a small purchase anon, as it gives one a huge edge in combat and allows the usage of more advanced missiles. There is a reason why their domestic military equipment is so poor when compared to US, European or even Russian equipment.

>>Israeli pilot to IDF war room: This is an American ship. Do you still want us to attack?
>>IDF war room to Israeli pilot: Yes, follow orders.
>>Israeli pilot to IDF war room: But sir, it’s an American ship - I can see the flag!
>>IDF war room to Israeli pilot: Never mind; hit it.
>What did they mean by this?
That fuck ups happen in war, anon. The same thing happened in the Gulf, Iraq 2 and AFG. Targets were hit that were friendlies. The Liberty Incident was a massive fuck up by the Israelis with both sides claiming a bunch of different things. I think it's shit they they got off so easily (but understandable given Arab support and friendship with the USSR).
>Israel attacked an American vessel deliberately
This part I agree, but not necessarily because it was a US ship, more because there's no such thing as NOT deliberately targeting a vessel.

>So what exactly are you claiming?
That it makes sense that they would have been captured in the first place.

>That's just your opinion. A bad one BTW. You are welcome to have it.
Well that was also the opinion of the US (hence the Patriot battery sites in Israel) and Saddam (hence the firing of Scuds into Israel necessitating the Patriot batteries).

>So what exactly are you arguing?
That is was a massive fuckup, as they happen in wartime, no more, no less.

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>>34586240
>most Iranians don't agree with the fanatical Ayatollahs running the government

Most Americans didn't agree with the Obama administration either. But if Russia or China invaded us to get rid of him, I doubt we'd be cheering our foreign "liberators" on, would we?

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>>34589602
>Iran is fairly pluralistic
"is"? Not anymore.
>and their revolution was fueled by anti-Western sentiment
And hijacked by theocrats.
>Why would they somehow welcome to have their nation ravaged by war
They don't have a choice. We aren't asking them. And not all of them are as in favor of their theocracy as you may believe. Particularly the urban segments desire to see a more open system take shape.

>>34589594
>You think this is about the US vs the Iranian government?
You are continually referencing what I would do in relation to a political entity that I don't interface with.
The Iranian relationship with their government is more complicated than you are allowing. Reformers have been continually beaten down by the ruling powers. And it's difficult to return to a system that's been beheaded and broken.

>>34589708
What are you talking about?
We stabilized Iraq. AQ was down. It only went to shit following our leave. Thanks, in large part, to malign Iranian-aligned forces disenfranchising Sunnis.

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>>34589744
if they think libruhls will suffer....

>>34589523

Because before a CBG sails anywhere near where those boats could operate, the docks and logistical infrastructure that service those boats will be extensively prepared by a variety of other assets that are not the least bit worried about motor missile boats

>>34589754

Our leaving is an inevitability in any intervention? It doesn't matter that Iraq was (eventually) a relatively stable occupation if it went to shit the minute we left ... do you envisage a permanent Iranian occuption? Otherwise that same danger is present when we eventually leave there as well.

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>>34589629
>close to US government are known to steal sensitive information.
Anon, you just about proved my point
>That's just a shitty contrived talking point you have regurgitated there.
kek

>>34589814
>do you envisage a permanent Iranian occuption?
No. We would need to align ourselves with those elements of Iranian society already in place that could nurture an open, and less fanatical government. That would need to be the Reformers, appealing to the Iranian young and educated, that we already know are receptive to the message.

>>34586846
>exactly none of this is useful in a conflict with the US. Its so out of date as to be better on day one to light this stuff on fire, rather than try to use it against the US military.
tell that to the vietnamese....or the afghanis...

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>>34589714
>why is the MSM so anti-Israel

>>34589903

okay, yes, that sounds good

but don't we know from how Iranian elections go that the country is heavily divided between the urban and rural who have very different perspectives and rough parity of numbers? Doesn't that mean it could turn out like Afghanistan, with a weak government clinging to urban strongholds and a vast ungoverned countryside that's no-mans-land?

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>>34589735
>There is a reason why their domestic military equipment is so poor when compared to US, European or even Russian equipment.

They don't face any sophisticated opponents and their budget is small. It's not rocket appliances. Besides, nothing Raytheon can do that would stop some treasonous prostitute like Lindsay Graham from approving US defense technology to their "sacred ally".

>The Liberty Incident was a massive fuck up by the Israelis with both sides claiming a bunch of different things.

Kind of a strange conclusion you arrived at hear?

So why do you think Israeli military leaders would order for the attack on a US vessel, when even their own aviators begin to question the action?

>This part I agree, but not necessarily because it was a US ship, more because there's no such thing as NOT deliberately targeting a vessel.

Another strange conclusion.

If they knew it was a US vessel, why did they press the attack? Israel has some deep-seated grudge against ships in general? Did they suspect America was smuggling military equipment to the communist-aligned Arabs? What? Is this microphone even on? Hello?

>That it makes sense that they would have been captured in the first place.

Yeah, well thanks for wasting my time.

>>34589979
Yes, it's the hinterlands where an underground resistance, by elements of IRGC or possible Iranian military (holy shit, don't disband that like we did in Iraq) could manifest itself. It's tough, no two ways about it, and they'll likely retreat to the mountain ranges, making them difficult to weed out.

But that's small potatoes compared to getting the buy-in from a critical mass of Iran to actually get a government, not even a pro-West or Liberal, just a non-crazy government with a non-psycho constitution, off the ground. if that can happen, we can cross other bridges, like fanatical insurgencies with some amount of local support, when we get to them.

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>>34586358

Oh man, the Kikes can't even unseat some fucking Lebanese militias in the hills around Beqqa, and they're dreaming of going to war with a 70 million populous mountain nation with scientists and engineers and industry?

lol no wonder they're begging America to fight their wars.

>>34587987
That's almost exactly what happened in the Russian Revolution, as well.

A broad movement deposed the corrupt monarch, and then a tiny minority murdered everybody that stood in between them and power, and then wielded that power ruthlessly against the rest of the populace.

>>34588380
Only if they have access to Ripper's teleporting bike messengers and 1/2-ton speedboats mounting 2-ton missiles.

>>34590332
Lot's of revolutions pan out that way, anon

>>34589140
Not him, but he asked you to provide those transcripts.

Then you claimed that you couldn't provide them because LBJ made them disappear.

Now you're back to taunting him for not having read them?

>>34590428
>Not him, but he asked you to provide those transcripts.

They're available, the recordings are not.

Why are you so keen on betraying America? Are you a Kike?

>>34590451
No, but you seem to be a troll.

>>34590465

http://www.haaretz.com/us-news/1.800584

tl;dr

LBJ was a crypto-kike, irl.

>>34590570
>U.S. President Lyndon B. Johnson was behind the attack, in an attempt to blame then-Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser
So... Israel attacked... at the behest of the US... but then the US got upset?
This is internally nonsensical and idiotic.
Meanwhile, reports were carried out by USN, CIA, NSA, House and Senate showing no malice. The intercepted communiques in their reports show confusion and negligence on the part of the Israelis, believing them to be Egyptians.
http://www.thelibertyincident.com/docs/CIAreports.pdf

>>34590570
why not just assassinate Nasser

>>34590053
>They don't face any sophisticated opponents and their budget is small.
That's a bullshit answer and you know it. Literally no nation in history has ever said "welp we're out of money and have no opponents, time to reign in the budget for the latest gen weapons". Fucking Uganda paid hundreds of millions of dollars they don't have to buy Su-30s that they have to pay mercenaries to fly.
>nothing Raytheon can do that would stop some treasonous prostitute like Lindsay Graham from approving US defense technology to their "sacred ally".
Except threaten to withdraw factories from certain Repub states. Or even the US

>Kind of a strange conclusion you arrived at hear?
Not really, fuck up happen all the time.
>So why do you think Israeli military leaders would order for the attack on a US vessel, when even their own aviators begin to question the action?
IDK Glory hounding IDF commander? It would not be the first time a commander ordered guys into combat in shitty circumstances.
Maybe incompetence? Lots of people who are giving orders should be playing with Play-Dough instead of lives.

>If they knew it was a US vessel, why did they press the attack?
I guess it's just following order to an extent. The guys in the cockpit or the trench don't have all the facts. They're relying on higher ups to make those right decisions, and sometimes they're bad ones made by bad people.

>Did they suspect America was smuggling military equipment to the communist-aligned Arabs?
No, most likely not as the US was supplying the shit out of them (Israel).

Also, fuck outa here with that pic.
I'm assuming it's from some Serbian artist decrying the use of forces against Serbia during the war when they were killing thousands and ruining economies like it was going out of style.


>They're available, the recordings are not.
How do you know that they have not been faked or altered if they haven't been released?
>>34590465
>>34590428
Are right, i asked you to provide them and you can't

>>34590053
cont.

>>34590465
>>34590428
Are right, i asked you to provide them and you can't. Pay no attention to the fact that YOU brought them up and into the convo in the first place.

>>34590451
>Are you a Kike?
I honestly want to ask, and I want a sincere, articulate answer because I've never gotten one from someone like you: What about Jews rubs you the wrong way?
Why do you see them as a threat so much?
Why are you willing to entertain these notion that they're up to no good?
Honest questions here, I don't want racial or religious epithets or anything.
>LBJ was a crypto-kike, irl.
What does that mean? Honestly?

Isn't it possible that the US has been allies with Israel because they were firmly in the US camp during the Cold War and against the Arabs (who were allied, at points with the USSR)?

>>34591620
>What about Jews rubs you the wrong way?
T
sell technological secrets to the highest bidder, incredibly large lobbying power, hysterics whenever anything happens in Isreal while they couldn't care less about what happens in the US, they torpedoed one of our ships for a false flag, they are a rogue nuclear state, despite this they use their lobbying power to ask for billions in aid every year, they use government funds to funnel into NGOs, that work to destabilize western nations and they lied to intelligence agencies about Iraqi WMD capabilities.

Overall a pain, they add nothing in terms of security on their best day and usually try to make things worse

>>34587491

> nazi attempts to defeat heavily fortified nation through aerial bombardment (and nothing else)

wow this plan is sure to succeed!

>>34591800
the only nazi of the middle east it's jews

>>34591800
Israel doesn't have an ocean complicating things.

>>34591720
>sell technological secrets to the highest bidder,
Every country has done this. From France and info on NATO ships and selling Exocet rockets to companies in the US giving China information of helicopters before sales were though.
>incredibly large lobbying power
So does the EU and NATO
Fuck, so does the meat packing industry.
>hysterics whenever anything happens in Isreal while they couldn't care less about what happens in the US
Once again, so does every other group interested in US dollars. Be it, Saudi Arabia to Ukraine to Texas oil drillers to fucking Disney itself.
>they torpedoed one of our ships for a false flag
Once again where we disagree, and if they wanted a false flag, it really didn't turn out that well.
>despite this they use their lobbying power to ask for billions in aid every year
As do hundreds of other organizations and countries
>they use government funds to funnel into NGOs
Ditto, why would a country NOT do that. To flex their soft power muscle and not have to waste resources putting boots on the ground. What do you think Radio Free Europe> The Peace Corps? The fact that the US gave 15 E-3s to NATO? It's a way to have soft power.

>lied to intelligence agencies about Iraqi WMD capabilities
That was Cheney, rummy and his cherry picked people at the CIA. Of course they're going to give contrarian information if it helps their political endgame. Name one country that wouldn't support that if it meant one of their rivals gets taken down.
>they are a rogue nuclear state
Not rogue, undeclared and an open secret? Yes, but hardly rogue. They don't get up wishing for the destruction of other nations and religious (and double down on that line of thought through official communiques.

what if the /pol/tards in this thread screeching about Israel are actually Iranian shills trying to distract us? have the Iranians developed shilling technology?

Cont
>>34591720
>Overall a pain, they add nothing in terms of security on their best day and usually try to make things worse
Forward positioning anon, intelligence sharing, geopolitical location. That's what we get, and in return we get a lap dog that is wholly dependent on us for continued survival. Does it suck that there have been shitty instances between us? Yes. Does it suck that they have sold some shit to foreign nations (that China still hasn't been able to reverse engineer)? Yes. But that's they way the ships have fallen anon, the US and NATO needed a partner in the region and they're the best choice because the other choices are very unstable and subject to change for various reasons.

>that work to destabilize western nations
Any lose their cash cow? If they #rekt the West, they lose all their powerful friends and now will be completely vulnerable and buy themselves. That's a terrible place to be. x2 if you're surrounded by nations filled with people who hate you on principle and believe insane conspiracy theories about you. That's a one way ticket to regretsville.

>>34589219

imagine being this retarded.

>>34591881
i'm russian myself, israel was always an enemy of my country so i naturally want them leveled to the ground

i mean i wouldn't mind the same fate for the usa, germany and some other countries but it would cause a lot of financial harm to russia so i don't wish anything bad to the usa unlike to israel, that's leaving aside that it's hardly feasible while the fall of israel is pretty possible

meantime i shame them for apartheid on every occasion when i have a chance, not like i give a shit of arabs but i want their state to be severely weakened

note not like i love russia or something, i despise my country but i am loyal to my blood so i hate israel anyway

>>34591934
>i mean i wouldn't mind the same fate for the usa, germany and some other countries but it would cause a lot of financial harm to russia so i don't wish anything bad to the usa unlike to israel, that's leaving aside that it's hardly feasible while the fall of israel is pretty possible
Why? Why do you wish that on other countries? Honest question.
>note not like i love russia or something, i despise my country but i am loyal to my blood so i hate israel anyway
Do you realize how you sound right now?
>I hate everything and everybody, but I hate them the most.

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>>34591934

>>34591861
>>34591909
Most of what you listed is deflecting by saying other countries do this, and no country and population lobbies as extenivly as Israel so the scales aren't the same even if I were to entertain your whataboutism.

And to severely weaken the US by using said lobbying power to weaken their enemies is what they are doing, they are a dog the bites the hand that feeds. Their intelligence is borderline useless because it is always colored by what would benefit them.
>inb4 this is what any nation would do

Which leads to my original poi t if the US doesn't need a partner in the region if the Israelis are the best ones available.

>>34591998
>Most of what you listed is deflecting by saying other countries do this, and no country and population lobbies as extenivly as Israel so the scales aren't the same even if I were to entertain your whataboutism.
>And to severely weaken the US by using said lobbying power to weaken their enemies is what they are doing, they are a dog the bites the hand that feeds. Their intelligence is borderline useless because it is always colored by what would benefit them.
well, It is what any nation would do. They are, at the end of the day, responsible for number one.
It'snot deflection if it's what nations do and how governments operate. russia has a vested interest in sowing distrust between EU states, Israel has a vested interest in getting allies who are more powerful than them pressure nations they don't like. The US (and about s other nations in Asia)has a vested interest in using the UN to condemn Chinese expansionism in the SCS.
>Their intelligence is borderline useless
Neither of us are in the intelligence community, so we can't make that assumption, but both Israel and the Us Intel community made a very large show of how unhappy they were of Trump when he said things he wasn't supposed to in his meeting with those two Russians.

>Which leads to my original poi t if the US doesn't need a partner in the region if the Israelis are the best ones available.
We do, because not only are they a stable country in the middle east from which we can station forward deployed forces, store pre-positioned equipment and gather intelligence, they also provide big boobed women at US universities. It's realpolitik in action anon, nobody said we had to see eye to eye on everything.

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>>34586240
an American ground invasion would be a complete disaster
-The vast majority of Iranians regardless of previous grievances will be far more hostile to a US invasion, more then there own government
-Iranian commanders won't be placing entire divisions of armor and infantry statically in the desert for the US to shock and awe like they did in Iraq (which was a massive reason for how relatively bloodless 2003 was for the Americans)
-Since the success Hezbollah had against the IDF in 2006, Iran military organization has begun to take serious structural changes including:
-more decentralization and individual freedom to commanders, for example the military command has been broken down into regions where under combat conditions and assuming the likely breakdown of central communications, commanders would have some autonomy. ie:not the headless chickens the USA had to clean up in Iraq.
-Focus on defending urban centers, which would grind any ground invasion to an absolute halt and ultimately cause far too many casualties of both Iranian civilians and US military personal for the public opinion to handle.

I'd mention more reasons, but the ground invasion would basically end at the last point I listed. Attacks across US interests in the region by the ever more powerful and experienced Hezbollah and Iranian Spec-ops would also cause a lot of damage.

>>34592064
>the traitorous intelligence agencies that are actively undermining a democratically elected president should be trusted along with their Israeli pals
Really not helping your case here. And they are no more stable than the Saudis. And for what reason would forward operating bases in Isreal help with? We can already get that from said Saudis and meanwhile they actually pay for their equipment.

If you want realpolitik then stop pretending that just because we had to deal with Isreal for so long we are locked into their success. Also thier woman are disgusting.

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Iran would be BTFO in any conventional war, even by the Saudi's. Occupying them would be a bitch for the same reasons as Iraq, suicide bombers, religious insurgents, sectarian violence, etc..

Anyway the MIDF shilling of "MUH PALESTINE!" in this thread is annoying. Accept might makes right and move on, al aqsa won't be islamic again.

>>34592127
>Iranian spec ops and Hezbollah are shilled on /k/ 24/7
>Can't defeat a bunch of farmers with AK's in Syria/Iraq, had to be bailed out by Russia/US

rly makes me think

>>34591934
lmao, Putin loves the Jews/Israel

>>34591861
I'm going to chime in here to say Hans Blix found a mountain of circumstantial evidence he chose not to investigate due to death threats from his Iraqi escorts

>>34592148
>Really not helping your case here.
There's no case to be made here, just trying to explain how this one small section of the world might carry itself in certain situations.
>And they are no more stable than the Saudis.
We BOTH know that's incorrect, what happens if there is a violent death of King of Saudi Arabia? It's anybodies guess while hoping for the best. For Israeli, there is a line of succession and a continuation of government. With other nations in the ME, there is always some should of uncertainty. Of course we're going to roll with them, as they are inherently more stable and easier to work with.
>And for what reason would forward operating bases in Isreal help with?
Numerous reasons. In case of a new war, exerting soft or hard power, SIGINT and ELINT operations, sharing relevant intelligence data. Providing a location where equipment and munitions can be procured from with having to ship it from the US, which costs more money.
>We can already get that from said Saudis and meanwhile they actually pay for their equipment.
Actually we can't their own government had enough of a fit when the US stationed forces there for the first Gulf War, and that was when their national borders were under threat and actually violated at points. Having American troops (aka non Muslims) in the Kingdom is a very touchy subject as the Us military includes Jews, atheists and high ranking female officers and enlisted personnel. For the US, that's simply too many stipulations to follow, especially when they can go a few nations over and have none of those issues.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_withdrawal_from_Saudi_Arabia
>traitorous intelligence agencies
Not really, especially when his own son provifded much of the damning evidence himself.

>>34592209
>I'm going to chime in here to say Hans Blix found a mountain of circumstantial evidence he chose not to investigate due to death threats from his Iraqi escorts
I will also chime in and say the rational for invading was an ACTIVE WMD program, not WMDs themselves. There were weapons of that nature found in Iraq, it's just that they were supplied by the US, France and West Germany during the 80s.
https://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0908-08.htm

>>34592148
>meanwhile they actually pay for their equipment.
To add a small part to this:>>34592214
Israel has just came out and said, they might buy more F-35s, and considering that the >5 billion they get from the US a years for military purchases is all they get, those orders of more 35s will be paid for by them

>>34592209
>>34592231
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/16/world/cia-is-said-to-have-bought-and-destroyed-iraqi-chemical-weapons.html
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2006/04/wowie_zahawie.html
http://www.weeklystandard.com/saddams-man-in-niger/article/13841

>>34591861
>cherry picked people at the CIA
There were plenty of reasons to go after Saddam besides WMDs. WMDs were, if anything, the weakest rung of the ladder.

Terror sponsorship:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/feb/06/julianborger
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/1428503/The-proof-that-Saddam-worked-with-bin-Laden.html
https://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/feb/06/alqaida.terrorism
>arms race with Iran would've been inevitable had he been left in power
https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2013/03/19/the-iraq-war-was-it-worth-it/ten-years-after-the-iraq-war-believe-it-or-not-were-safer-now
>Questions of succession- Uday Hussein and Qusay both being even more ruthless and unstable than their father
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/8681025/Saddams-demon-seed.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/1436887/The-bloodstained-past-of-Saddams-sons.html

>>34592198
This isn't the Taliban or Iraqi Insurgents we're talking about, the FSA and ISIS are well funded, supported and supplied by the USA, Israel, Turkey and gulf states. Its a proper militia not some random farmers with ak's (who the USA failed to defeat with overwhelming technological advantage in Afghanistan and Iraq.)

They're just as well armed as Hezbollah for the most part, yet despite this Hezbollah has helped the unreliable Syrian army make massive gains against both the ISIS and FSA and at the current pace of things I don't think Hezbollah is too worried about being beaten back or losing.

Iran will start a war with Israel through Hezbollah and then Israel will wipe out Hezbollah and Lebanon would be come territory. The US will crush Iranian militias in Iraq and will never actually go to Iran. Jews will look good on the defense and the US will show its ability to project power in Iraq. But who knows

>>34591995
Putin knows the Jews are stronk.

>>34586240
Best scenario would be to lure the military, especially the IRGC, out of Iran into Iraq and then destroy it while taking out all senior leadership with precision strikes. Then blockade the country and hope that the people will overthrow the government or something., smuggle arms to any resistance groups if needed. Outside of sending some small teams to secure the nuke sites you shouldn't need a land invasion.

>>34586543
>I'm a white west european

I have a Persian friend who identifies as a white European because his mother is from Romania, but that doesn't mean he is actually white.

>Americans want to "liberate" another country because of "muh freedoms" again
>Completely ignore what happened in Iraq and Libya
Why don't you mind your own fucking business ?

>>34590053
>arguing that Israel struck the Liberty knowing it was a US ship.
>There is less evidence for this than 9/11 being an inside job
Stay tinfoil my dude

>>34592831
Freedom knows no bounds buddy, the Iranian government funds lots of terrorism and they are racing towards a nuclear weapon. It's time their influence is countered in any way possible.

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>>34586240
>Assuming that neither China nor Russia seizes this as an opportunity to start World War 3, how would a ground war in Iran play out?
Poorly for all involved.

>Personally, I feel like Iran would be much better than Iraq (assuming the previous condition about China and Russia). From the Iranians I've met and spoken to (who visit Iran often), most Iranians don't agree with the fanatical Ayatollahs running the government. The Green Revolution in 2009 is a good example of this playing out.

No. Just fucking no. People will defend their homelands, and the Iranian regime enjoys more support amongst a vast segment of the population than your cosmopolitan emigre contacts would have you believe.

>Plus, traditional Persian culture has never been Islamic, and there has been a strong conflict between the Persians and Islam that hasn't been present in the Gulf States, where Islam is a much stronger force. Considering the fact that the Shah modernized the country prior to the Islamic Revolution, we're not dealing with savages here for the most part either.

Irrelevant racism, makes no sense either. How is a more competent enemy "easier" to fight?

>Further, there's much less sectarian division in Iran. There's no Sunni-Shia-Kurd dispute like there was in Iraq and there's no Iran to provide armaments to Shia militias, like they did in Iraq.

Half true and half false. The Shia-Sunni divide across Syria and Iraq follows an urban-rural, bourgeoise/labour aristocracy vs lumpenprole/peasant divide.

Sunni Arabs in the south have never liked the regime, and Kurds in the north-west have literally always been in conflict with it - do you not realise thats where most of Irans refugees comes from? Iranian Kurds?

>Assume that the war would contain the coalition members in Iraq (US, UK, Australia, Poland) and be up against Iran.

God will smite the arrogant imperialists.

>>34592848
>It's ok when we do it

>>34592848
Why? Isreal has a bunch of nukes, introducing more nations can only stabilize the region as the lines are drawn and detterence once again makes peace.

>>34592248
>thinking they are actually going to pay for them
Thanks for the generous donations, goy.

>>34592214
>trumps son somehow had deep US secrets
>from the same agencies that investigated whether Trump hired prostitutes to piss on Obama's bed

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>>34591934
>Israel was always enemy of my country
http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/05/18/five-things-you-need-to-know-about-israels-new-putin-loving-defense-minister/
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/14/weekinreview/14levy.html

>>34586543
>i'm a white west european
leave the foreign policy talk to the relevant world powers Hans. Go back to giving blowjobs to Vlad for natural gas.

>>34586240
What is "this"?

>>34586240
>fanatical Ayatollahs
>Green Revolution in 2009 is a good example of this
XD

>>34592893
>trumps son somehow had deep US secrets
His issue is not about secrets, It's that whether or not he took a meeting with Russian gov officials who potentially had dirt on Clinton and whether or not he did so on purpose.

>Thanks for the generous donations, goy.
Well interestingly enough they're one of the cheapest planes on the market.

>There were plenty of reasons to go after Saddam besides WMDs. WMDs were, if anything, the weakest rung of the ladder.
No, there really weren't' very good reasons to go to war.
>Terror sponsorship:
No, the US gov tried to play the whole "He might have worked with terrorism" angle despite the fact that those same groups were opposed to him being in power on principle.

>>34587491
>They can rain down 20,000 PROPER missiles into Israeli urban areas with nothing the Kikes can do to stop it.

Maybe over many months time. As said above most of these missiles don't have the range to hit major Israeli cities.
In the 2006 war, all the heavy Hezbollah missiles were destroyed in the opening strikes of the war. Air strikes would again take a heavy toll on the Hezbollah missile stockpiles.

Don't forget, the larger the missiles, the harder they are to hide, this goes for their launchers as well.

Then we're going into Israeli early warning systems, which have improved drastically since 2006. The fact that most houses have bunkers, as mandatory by the state etc etc.

Not to mention the larger missiles and those threatening vital targets would be shot down (90% chance of success) by their multi layered active missile defense.

>And we're not talking about the flying pipe bombs that Gazans fire off from their ghettos once in a while.
Some of the Hamas rockets are proper one's supplied from Iran or assembled under their guidance. Shit is just not as effective as you make it out to be.

>>34587815
>The USS Liberty was an honest accident and we should spill American blood for the Holy Land!
The Iranian shill shows itself.
1. You ignored every bit of information. Iranian state media was supporting the Bosnians for example.
2. You're changing the subject from Iran to Israel... I wonder why can't you address a post honestly.
3. speaking about talking points, your post is devoid of any value and is just a big one itself.

>>34589577
>>34589735

>Israeli pilot to IDF war room: This is an American ship. Do you still want us to attack?

>IDF war room to Israeli pilot: Yes, follow orders.

>Israeli pilot to IDF war room: But sir, it’s an American ship - I can see the flag!

>IDF war room to Israeli pilot: Never mind; hit it.

Excuse me for interjecting. Do you have a source of the above? I have read the transcripts and no where was there anything like this.
Perhaps there are additional transcripts from another control room which I have not read?

>>34594470
I'm
>>34589735
>>34589413
>>34588870
and no, he never provided a source. He just said that there were transcripts. The odd thing is that he brought them into the convo, asking if I had read or seen them, I responded that I had not and that he should provide them and he could not or has not yet.

>>34587815
More people died in the Beirut Barracks Bombing, the bombing of the Khobar Towers, or from Hezbollah's drug smuggling operations in Latin America than from the USS Liberty you spastic.

>>34586240
How the fuck would Iran be much better than Iraq?
Iraq is a fake Arab country with massive divisions, Iran isn't.
No fucking Iranian would welcome you. After invasion you would unite them in their opposition to America and basically give propaganda victory to those same "fanatical Ayatollahs".
Now that we established that, what do you hope to accomplish by invading them?
USA could most probably beat them militarily and occupy places (after relatively heavy loses, Iran isn't a desert or inferior like Iraq was), but to keep it occupied you would need far more resources. We're talking about 70 million country here.
Invading Iran would be terribly unpopular globally and you could be sure Russia and China will swoop in to dick you in other places while you're occupied there, and do everything to support Iranian resistance.
It would be a terrible mistake which would mean the end of American hegemony. Problem with you modern Americans is that you don't really understand the basis of American global power.

>>34594599
He can't provide them. because that's not what they say.
When a controversy over to whom the vessel belonged has arisen, this was after the bombing run took place already, one flight controller asked/proposed the possibility it was an American vessel. To be ignored (no answer by anyone recorded).
It was simply a transmition
>Americans?
Into a busy comm channel.

>>34595666
>Iraq is a fake Arab country with massive divisions, Iran isn't.

Except the Kurdish insurgency in the North, the Baluch in the South east and the Arabs in the South west?

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_separatism_in_Khuzestan
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_separatism_in_Iran
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sistan_and_Baluchestan_insurgency

>No fucking Iranian would welcome you.
see above.
Honestly Iraqis didn't welcome the US either. quickly both Shia and Sunni started an insurgency against the US.

>Now that we established that, what do you hope to accomplish by invading them?
That's not the question ITT, invading Iran would be foolish and accomplish nothing.

>USA could most probably beat them militarily and occupy places (after relatively heavy loses, Iran isn't a desert or inferior like Iraq was)
Iranian military is sub par, the IRGC are not much better. US took on Afghanistan, with harsher terrain and people much more accustomed to guerrilla fighting, and Iraq at the same time.
Iran would be slightly more difficult, that's all.
Iraq and Afghanistan have a population of nearly 70 million combined, and are also of similar size combined. The logistic challenges are even greater juggling between those two countries.

>>34595666
>Invading Iran would be terribly unpopular globally and you could be sure Russia and China will swoop in to dick you in other places while you're occupied there, and do everything to support Iranian resistance.
China would do nothing, as they have done nothing in the past.

Russia is an unknown. Russia and Iran, unlike Russia and Syria, aren't really that close. For example, an Israeli request stalled the Russian supply of an S-300 system for 6 years:
http://russia-insider.com/en/military/russia-iran-s-300-air-defense-deal-finally-back-track/ri11067

Invading Iran would indeed be wildly unpopular, much like the invasion of Iraq was. Perhaps slightly more, perhaps slightly less.

Don't forget that over 10 westerners took to the streets in the wake of the 2003 invasion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_Iraq_War

>It would be a terrible mistake which would mean the end of American hegemony.
This must be a joke... Vietnam was much worse than anything Iran has to offer.

>>34596246
>Don't forget that over 10 westerners took to the streets in the wake of the 2003 invasion

That is 10 million.

>>34595438
>Hezbollah's drug smuggling operations in Latin America
This is the first I've heard of this. Could you give me some more info please?

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>>34592876
>more nukes in the region
>this time held by a fanatical regime which has repeatedly stated its intent to use Nuclear weapons but also has stated it is ready to be nuked in such an event (Lol jihads)
>this will lead to peace
Try harder arab-EU-Liberal cocksucker shill

>>34596246
Vietnam was never invaded by USA, and that happened in the context of Cold War, fighting communism and stuff like that. Different scenario.
>Russia
>China
...would absolutely jump at the opportunity to attack American strength indirectly.
>>34596217
Those divisions are a lot smaller than in Iraq.
>Iranian military is sub-par
It would be the most serious opponent America faced since WW2.

>>34596532
Israeli regime is fanatical too. I mean some of them literally state shit like "we shouldn't fight ISIS cause they are suiting our goals".
Bad argument.

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>>34596560
Israel would love to pound ISIS into the ground I'm sure but they are hindered by the optics of the situation. They already bomb the syrian government, they wouldnt wanna piss off the Saudis and other shitty gulf states by bombing ISIS too hard. Seriously thats how it plays out. Also the US has created a huge coalition of nations to fight ISIS including Russia, so israel has no reason to attack ISIS except at its borders.

>>34596538
I highly doubt the Iranian Air Force is as effective as the North Vietnamese was

>>34596538
>It would be the most serious opponent America faced since WW2.
I'd say actually Serbia. Ground forces put us at a major disadvantage, especially when you consider the mountainous terrain in the Balkans. Fast forward 20 years, the US has extensive experience with COIN in bad terrain, not to mention has the logistical system to sustain forces.
Maybe even Vietnam, they were able to maintain aerial combat operations against the US (although not for very long).
>>Iranian military is sub-par
This is somewhat correct, their equipment is severely lacking. If you can't even maintain your own vehicles during peacetime, wartime operations would be essentially impossible.

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>>34596560
Also broke asf Israel cant waste its precious US military goodboypoints bashing ISIS when the US and friends are already doing that. A big war with Hezbollah is what IDF is preparing for. Nobody cares about ISIS, if you have good borders that is.

>>34596469
This is old news.
Hezbollah uses the trafficking of narcotics across South America as funding. Their reach in this regard outstrips other transnational terror groups like AQ.
>http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/01/politics/hezbollah-cocaine-drug-money-arrest-dea/index.html
>http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jun/8/hezbollah-moving-tons-of-cocaine-in-latin-america-/

It's not just the drug trade. We arrested a Hezbollah member in the US not long ago looking to attack the Panama Canal and the ships running through. Another was looking to attack military installations in NY.
>https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/two-men-arrested-terrorist-activities-behalf-hizballahs-islamic-jihad-organization

>>34596538
>...would absolutely jump at the opportunity to attack American strength indirectly.
Like they have in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya?
Reality is a little bit more complected. China has a strict non involvement policy anywhere outside of their zone of influence.

Russia, like I said, depends on the exact circumstances.

>Those divisions are a lot smaller than in Iraq.
If you say so. Shia and Sunni Iraqis fought shoulder to shoulder against the Shia Iranians in the Iraq-Iraq war.
The Kurds are equally separatists in both cases.

>It would be the most serious opponent America faced since WW2.
Please, stop.
No where close to Korea or Vietnam. 3rd place at absolute best.
Iranian troops struggled for months to take a single village in the Qalmon mountains despite having every single possible advantage known to mankind.
There is not one impressive operation you they've pulled. The army has no real experience since the Iran Iraq war, the IRGC has only limited experience.

They'd likely perform worse than the Iraqis. (thought have a larger force).

>>34586240
As an Iranian, the ayatollah thrive under chaos.

The majority are young people and are not too keen on the government and the like.

Still guns are power and guess who has them?

The government will eat itself eventually.

If their was a war I'm pretty sure they will try to force fights on ancient ruins, the government secretly hate old Persian things its killing two birds with one stone, destroying the artifact and rallying up the young.

I know those old stones don't mean much to you guys, but as Iranians under the boot of Islam it's all we have left.

>>34588704
>Russian collusion conspiracy
Only a moron still thinks that the whole thing is still some media fabrication when Trump Jr himself released emails that said "Meet with this person, who has dirt on Hillary, its part of the Russian Government's attempt to help your father."

>>34586240

Iran can be invaded but it needs prep work. It would need to be weakened with a couple of active secessions first - get the Iranian Kurds to link up with the remainder of Kurdistan in the north-west, get the Kingdom of Baluchistan (there's still a low-level insurgency going on there now, in fact) to agitate in the south-east. As well as sapping Iranian resources, it conveniently sets up a clear liberator casus belli too.

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>>34592832

You poor little shill...

>http://www.chicagotribune.com/chi-liberty_tuesoct02-story.html

>W. Patrick Lang, a retired Army colonel who spent eight years as chief of Middle East intelligence for the Defense Intelligence Agency, said the transcripts were used as "course material" in an advanced class for intelligence officers on the clandestine interception of voice transmissions.

>"The flight leader spoke to his base to report that he had the ship in view, that it was the same ship that he had been briefed on and that it was clearly marked with the U.S. flag," Lang recalled in an e-mail.

>"The flight commander was reluctant," Lang said in a subsequent interview. "That was very clear. He didn't want to do this. He asked them a couple of times, 'Do you really want me to do this?' I've remembered it ever since. It was very striking. I've been harboring this memory for all these years."

>Asked whether the NSA had in fact intercepted the communications of the Israeli pilots who were attacking the Liberty, Kirby, the retired senior NSA official, replied, "We sure did."

>>34594406
>2. You're changing the subject from Iran to Israel... I wonder why can't you address a post honestly.

The subject of American hostility against Iran IS STRICTLY about Israel and their agents inside the US congress.

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>>34594470
>Excuse me for interjecting. Do you have a source of the above?

Yeah, one of them is an ex-DIA officer for Middle Eastern affairs Col. Pat Lang:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Patrick_Lang

>>34595438
>Hezbollah's drug smuggling operations in Latin America


lolwut

>>34592832
The CNO at the time is on record saying there was no way it could have been anything but deliberate.

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>>34596217
>When a controversy over to whom the vessel belonged has arisen

There wasn't any confusion.

The US carrier strike group actually prepared to launch combat sorties against Israel in retaliation, but these were rescinded by the White House.

>>34596685
>Hezbollah uses the trafficking of narcotics across South America as funding.

Oddly enough, so does the CIA..

Maybe that's why they're at odds? Competing business interests?

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>>34592193
>Anyway the MIDF shilling of "MUH PALESTINE!" in this thread is annoying.

>Ctrl+F "Palestine"

>Only post about Palestine is yours

>>34599488
>STRICTLY
No it isn't and you know that

>>34599574

That was KGB/IRGC disinfo. The cocaine trade was run by FARC. Why would the CIA be doing dirty work for communist insurgents?

>>34599507
Hezbollah/IRGC does in fact have operatives in Latin America. They carried out that Jewish community center bombing in Buenos Aires a few years back, and the IRGC does do a shitload of drug production and smuggling (who's been buying and processing that Afghan heroin?).

>>34599488
If that's true, then why does the Iranian government call the US "The Great Satan" and Israel "Little Satan?"

>>34599514
The thing that gets me about the "USS Liberty was intentional" argument is: 1) The US Navy and CIA investigated it and said it was an accident and 2) how could Israel benefit from antagonizing the US during a time when they were at war with all their neighbors?

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War with Iran is going to be much more difficult than Iraq. They might fuck with the strait of Hormuz, which has a fuck load of oil passing through and screw up the world's economy.

>Mountainous terrain for one

Remember only 1/2 of Iran is actually Persian so they're always suspicious of their minorities.

>Could probably team up with Kurds near the border. Probably could also team with Azerbaijanis in Iran. Give them a promise of independence and they'd probably help.
>Near the Pakistani side you have Balochi's and maybe try to do the same shit with them?

>Afghanistan: Iran has helped the Taliban by funding, arming, and training them at certain points to fight NATO forces. They'd revive these links and destabilize Afghanistan even more.
>Iraq: fund Shia militias like they did in Iraq '03 and like they are currently doing to fight ISIS.
>Saudi Arabia: Try to create a Shia uprising. The Shias in Saudi Arabia live in the area with a lot of oil so this would be really bad.
>Lebanon: Hezbollah is going to start taking American hostages. Attack Israel as well.

Seems pretty risky desu

>>34599574
>BUT WHAT ABOUT
Outside of support for the Contras which ended decades ago, evidence for US involvement in SA drug trade is minimal to nonexistent.

>>34599719
>No it isn't and you know that

There literally is no other reason.

The Kikes simply bested you at your own game of free market capitalism and now they own everything, including your elected officials.

>>34600104

Yeah, idiots (assuming they're not IRGC/VAJA or FSB shills) don't realize the commies invented disinformation and frequently blamed their own acts on the US or other NATO nations.

>>34600187
Daryush, don't act like us Yanks are stupid. If we were to throw KSA and Israel under the bus you'd still be planning to do us ill, just with better weapons at your disposal this time.

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>>34599902
>That was KGB/IRGC disinfo.

>What is Just Cause.

>Hezbollah/IRGC does in fact have operatives in Latin America.

That's just CIA/State Department disinfo. The Cocaine trade is run out of Colombia, there is no other reason for the heavy US military investment there.

>If that's true, then why does the Iranian government call the US "The Great Satan" and Israel "Little Satan?"

Maybe because they've been explicitly threatened with regime change since 1979?

>The thing that gets me about the "USS Liberty was intentional" argument is:

Opinion discarded.

The deliberate nature of the Israeli attack on a US vessel is not disputed. The only controversy remaining is why LBJ chose to cover it up.

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>>34600222
>Daryush, don't act like us Yanks are stupid.

Americans are literally stunted, and /k/ represents the one of the lower totem poles in American society - low income Whites who are forced to go through the US armed forces seeking to elevate their social status, mid- to lower IQ range.

In general, /k/ is ill equipped to deal with any level of complexity in world affairs above the "Captain America" and "Wonder Woman" level.

>>34600226

Operation Just Cause was to overthrow a far-left wing dictator in Panama who was using the country as a money laundering outpost for the drug trade. Thank you for proving my point.

>That's just CIA/State Department disinfo. The Cocaine trade is run out of Colombia, there is no other reason for the heavy US military investment there.

You must be hitting the good shit, then. The US-backed Colombian government is fighting FARC, the guys who produce and sell cocaine.

And as for Hezbollah/Iran in Latin America:
http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/iran-and-hezbollah-remain-hyperactive-in-latin-america

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jun/8/hezbollah-moving-tons-of-cocaine-in-latin-america-/

http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/03/world/americas/iran-latin-america/index.html

>Maybe because they've been explicitly threatened with regime change since 1979?

No shit, Islamist whackjobs overthrew the king and established an anti-US regime. What the fuck do you think would happen?

>Opinion discarded.

Hahaha, I'm asking questions and you won't answer. The USS Liberty incident has a lot of them that have contradicting answers. By the way, the US Navy and CIA concluded it was a mistake on the Israeli's part. There is also the question as to why the US decided to cover it up, if it was in fact intentional by the Israeli armed forces.

>>34600271

>Americans are literally stunted
And yet, Americans made it to the moon multiple times, something you alleged geniuses could not do.

>>34589785
>getting within the range of Iran's IADS
RIP US naval aviation

>>34600226
>The Cocaine trade is run out of Colombia, there is no other reason for the heavy US military investment there.
What is FARC?
What is the School of the Americas?
What is the Alliance for Progress?
What is United Fruit?
The US and Columbia go way back, long before the War on Drugs. You can critique imperialism if you'd like, but your smug surety that our only connection could be drugs is Dunning-Kruger in action.

>>34590354
What the fuck are you blathering about?

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>>34600301

>>34600301
>Operation Just Cause was to overthrow a far-left wing dictator in Panama who was using the country as a money laundering outpost for the drug trade.

lol, wrong.

Just Cause was to remove a CIA asset who started to act flakey. Are you denying Noriega's ties to the CIA? Becuas e those are a matter of public record.

Lol gtfo you disinformation shill.

>The US-backed Colombian government is fighting FARC, competing for the monopoly to produce and distribute narcotics to an insatiable US market.

Fixed.

>(((Washington Post)))

>(((CNN)))

Don't make me laugh. Those are State Department propaganda promulgation channels equivalent to Russia's RT.

>No shit, Islamist whackjobs overthrew the king and established an anti-US regime.

That's an interesting interpretation of history, perhaps if you've been fermenting in a Oklahoma trailer park for 30 years...

The Iranians overthrew a US vassal who was pillaging the resource wealth of the nation for his own benefit and the benefit of his cronies. The revolution happened to have an Islamic flavor.

>The USS Liberty incident has a lot of them that have contradicting answers.

Yeah well, no offense, I'm going to take the word of a high ranking, Arabic-speaking DIA officer, military historian and the ex-director of the NSA over some minor idiot on the internet. Noting personnel kid.

>>34600393
>pillaging the resource wealth for his own benefit
And giving Iran the best women's rights of any Islamic country other than Turkey and Westernizing the education system.

>>34600376

What is a sentence?

What is formulating a coherent response?

What is learning syntax and putting through thoughts into actual form rather that disjointed grunts and screeches

What is Chiquita Bananas?

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>>34600403

>MUH WOMEN'S RIGHTS

Very compelling argument. Hey, we're buying your crude at pennies on the dollar, and actually feeding a good chunk of it to Israel, while our vassal Shah kidnaps and murders people in his secret torture prisons run by the equivalent of tje NKVD, BUT HEY, the women can wear make-up.

You don't have a leg to stand on, cunt.

>>34600411
I just gave you 4 reasons that don't concern drugs why the US has historically been deeply involved with Columbia. FARC being the most pertinent, but we've built the relationship over decades. And most of it didn't concern drugs.
Your non-response is noted.

>>34600340

>you alleged geniuses

Do you genuinely believe you're talking to an Iranian?

>>34600453

And none of those are even vaguely convincing or a coherent argument in your favor. Comprende my Latin Shartnik friend?

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>>34599452
>chicago tribune
>tfw

>>34600466
>I don't like that argument! Bring me another.
>Nope. Not convincing enough!
Reminds me of when the Russians invaded Crimea. Truthfully, it's my error for engaging you.

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>>34600271
This is high quality bait by a no guns queer. well memed friendo

>>34600369
"IADS"
>Hawks and S-200s, with questionable degrees of interoperability
How terrifying.

>>34600393

Noriega was ousted because he started selling intelligence info to enemies of the US. The CIA tolerated him selling drugs because he was a useful informant.

>The US-backed Colombian government is fighting FARC, competing for the monopoly to produce and distribute narcotics to an insatiable US market.

Except that the Colombian military has been dropping defoliant on the poppy fields rather than capturing them for their own use, and cocaine production in Colombia has stagnated in recent years.

>Those are State Department propaganda promulgation channels equivalent to Russia's RT.

When in doubt, attack the other guy's sources and provide none to support your argument. And I was using the Washington Times, not the Post.

>The Iranians overthrew a US vassal who was pillaging the resource wealth of the nation for his own benefit and the benefit of his cronies. The revolution happened to have an Islamic flavor.

Yet Iran was better off under the Shah.

>Yeah well, no offense, I'm going to take the word of a high ranking, Arabic-speaking DIA officer, military historian and the ex-director of the NSA over some minor idiot on the internet. Noting personnel kid.

Can you give me a good reason why Israel would deliberately attack a US ship while in the midst of a war for their lives? Or why the US would cover up the investigation rather than taking action against Israel, a nation which it was not yet closely affiliated with? Those two questions are what leads me to question if it was deliberate rather than incompetence on Israel's part.

Here's the CIA report on the incident.
https://fas.org/irp/cia/product/liberty0667.pdf

Possible:
War with Iran
War with North Korea
War with Russia
War with China
What a time to be alive

>>34599990

Exactly, which is why the US pursued a strategy of containment of Iran in Afghanistan and Iraq. Though both operations were targeted at Sunni extremists and their supporters, they had the side benefit of having bases of operation right next to Iran to dissuade Iran from causing any trouble in the region.

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>>34586642
Nazi stormfront faggots cannot comprehend being anti jew, anti muslim, anti russian, anti chinks, pretty much anti anything non American, I want my country (USA) to dominate this world for as long as possible and it looks like we got this century on lock if not the next 2 centuries. Maybe even 3 or 4 hundred years of US Global dominance.

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>>34600694
China - too poor and too disorganized to do shit,
Russhit - too poor and disorganized to take on the US, Nato, UN
Norks - would get BTFO real quick
Iranshits - would get BTFO real quick

Anyone that thinks Russia could take on the USA is retarded. Russian economy is already btfo, Russian economy will collapse way before a war with USA just like last time. Happened before will happen again. Believe it.

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>burgerposting intesifies

>>34600531

>implying /k/ isn't poor and stupid

Prove me wrong.

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>>34600732
I'm an American zionist. Not supporting Israel is pretty pleb tier.
>qf16 drone does real time maneuvers autonomously.
>Most advanced russian drones no where near this range.
America is truly the best country.

>>34600853
get out

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>>34600581

I'm going to just respond the the Liberty stuff because frankly I don't care that much about US drug running in SA and it's midnight, I'm hitting the sack shortly.

>Can you give me a good reason why Israel would deliberately attack a US ship while in the midst of a war for their lives?

That's the only real question, now isn't it? I don't know why they made a calculated decision like that. The most obvious answer is a false flag to draw the US into war against Egypt's Nasser. But the NSA with the 6th fleet managed to intercept the comms and it all went to shit.

That's just my speculation.

>Or why the US would cover up the investigation rather than taking action against Israel,

You need to read some biographies of LBJ. He had the strangest affinity for (((them)))...

>>34588549
this

>>34599902
(who's been buying and processing that Afghan heroin?)

Not South America lol. They deal in Cocaine mostly, and Mexico has its own poppy fields. Nice try though.

>>34600940

>The most obvious answer is a false flag to draw the US into war against Egypt's Nasser.

Its possible. But, Israel was starting to win decisively by the time the USS Liberty was attacked, the risk/reward ratio was too far in their favor to carry out such an attack.

>You need to read some biographies of LBJ. He had the strangest affinity for (((them)))...

Not buying that its all due to LBJ. The US had to get something out of not blowing the hell out of Israel. Perhaps the US and Israel were realizing they shared common enemies in the region.

>>34601087
I was referring to Iran, not any nation in South America.

>>34599990
>BRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAPPPPPPPP

>>34600940
>The most obvious answer is a false flag to draw the US into war against Egypt's Nasser.
But they were already winning, hugely. Why bring in the US by the way of attacking an intelligence vessel who will almost certainly find out your identity? From what we understand, the US was about to #rekt Israel until a last minute order changed that. If that attack had gone though that would have been more damaging than anything Nasser could though at them.

>>34601099
Iran doesn't produce any substantial amount of Heroin, it is crippling their country and the government is cracking down heavily on it. It is another reason for growing anti US sentiment there given Afg. poppy production exploded after the invasion.

>>34587395
Alexander was a huge persiaboo though

>>34601180

Iran's IRGC does traffic narcotics though, they sell it to other countries to fund operations. Where do you think those Saudi/Emirati sheikhs get their drugs from?

http://dailycaller.com/2010/11/29/leaked-cables-reveal-u-s-diplomats-fears-about-irans-drug-trafficking/

>>34601252
Saudi/ Emerati traffic Captagon (speed). They are not doing heavy business with Shia.
Thats 2009 and they mention Iran is involved in helping move 59,000 kilos one time (That isnt shit globally)

>>34600301
Reminder that Hezbollah is strongest in the Beqaa valley, a region known producing illegal drugs

>>34591995
didn't knew disliking israel was antisemitism
i have nothing against jews, one of my friends was a jew

>>34592205
>>34593650
do i care what putin likes? i didn't vote for him

>>34586240
You have wrong outlook on Iranians.

Young people from big cities absolutely hate the current regime, but everybody 35+ and from province generally loves it. Guess which ones are more likely to be insurgents.

The only way you can hope to convince them is to fix the terrible Iranian economy but in a country that will be riddled with terrorists it will be very hard task.

>>34586846
This reminds me of the Vietnam war. The U.S. population hated it, the war left 50,000 Americans dead (the average age for soldiers was 19). Although the South Vietnamese, Cambodians, and Laos did fighting by being armed by the U.S. majority still sides with the communist because the war was seen as an continuation of the Indochina war with France.

>>34599488
>The subject of American hostility against Iran IS STRICTLY about Israel

underage bait
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_hostage_crisis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Praying_Mantis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Beirut_barracks_bombings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_United_States_embassy_bombing

Iranian effort to arm and train Iraqi insurgents against the US
>Leaked Reports Detail Iran’s Aid for Iraqi Militias
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/23/world/middleeast/23iran.html?pagewanted=all&mcubz=0
>Weapons prove Iranian role in Iraq, U.S. says
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/war-zones/weapons-prove-iranian-role-in-iraq-us-says/2011/07/05/gHQAUnkmzH_story.html?utm_term=.9f82186ad444
>Iran arming Taliban, increasingly isolated: U.S.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-usa-afghanistan-idUSL1229345320070612
Iranian proxies targeting US ships in international straits with weapons supplied by Iran
>Iranian-backed Houthi militants in Yemen target US Navy ship with two missile launches
http://www.businessinsider.com/houthi-militants-yemen-target-missile-launches-2016-10
Iran destabalizing Bahrain, a US ally that houses a large US base
>U.S. increasingly sees Iran’s hand in the arming of Bahraini militants
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-increasingly-sees-irans-hand-in-the-arming-of-bahraini-militants/2017/04/01/be5e61fc-1329-11e7-833c-503e1f6394c9_story.html?utm_term=.5348c500f4dc

back to /pol/, hopefully with a history book in hand.

>>34587748
No, however the U.S. really ensured an Allied victory. If they hadn't gone in and not lend-lease aid, tanks, and planes with Russia, Germany had a good chance of winning. Of course can never truly know

>>34588321
Turkey probably will, since U.S. has always tried to keep good relations. Although it might make Russia uncomfortable because Turkey has been allies with Nazi Germany and the United States to strike at Russia easily.

>>34599498
His account doesn't make any sense.
>I was a student in the Military Intelligence Officer advanced Course at Ft. Holabird, Maryland (Baltimore) in 1967-1968. The course lasted about ten months. We students were required to take several electives from a group offered and I took a course in Cryptology.
There should have been hundreds to thousands of similar accounts of others going through the same course. This could have never stayed in the dark for 40 years it took for the guy to publish it.

Furthermore, had the US tried to cover this up, why make it so wildly available?
Where are the accounts of the many others who went through the same course? Perhaps after 40 years the guy mixes stuff up a bit over what he read where in a book nearly half a century ago?

>>34599554
>There wasn't any confusion.
That's just your opinion mate.

>The US carrier strike group actually prepared to launch combat sorties against Israel in retaliation
So help me understand, Israel is already knee deep in war on all fronts. Then they decide it's a good idea to provoke US strikes against them?

Again, doesn't make any sense.

>>34600940
Nice to see you're dropping the Hezbollah drug network in South America issue in the face of overwhelming evidence.
Too bad you can't admit you were wrong.

>The most obvious answer is a false flag to draw the US into war against Egypt's Nasser.
Besides the argument that Israel was already on the shores of the Suez canal, what kind of an idiot tried to do a false flag with planes Egypt doesn't use flying the star of david?

You don't need to intercept the comms to see the planes took off and landed in Israel, just a radar.

>>34601402
You're starting to come to the realization that everyone does the same shit to one measure or another. Iran is no different.

>>34602306
>You're starting to come to the realization that everyone does the same shit to one measure or another. Iran is no different.

Neither is the US but whatever. Keep drinkin the matza flavored koolaid.

>>34602366
>Neither is the US
But of course. That's my point.
CIA in Afghanistan, IRGC in South America etc etc.

>>34587974
US imposed weapons sanctions on Bosnia. Iran supplied weapons. We were fighting for our survival, of course we would go with Iranians.